What would have to happen in Spider-Man 4 that would redeem the series for you?
For me, Peter would have to dump MJ and date Ursula.
What? She's sweet! I like her! She has her flaws.
She's not perfect like my girl Nummy Muffin.
If they just made the next one a reallt good movie like the second one, and didn't overfill it with villans, didn't have too much whining and crying, and above all DON'T MENTION A WORD of what happened in the third one, then I could forget the third movie happened. I think all told, that is the best option, all things considered.
Such a shame to have Thomas Hayden Church wasted like that.
Quote from: Darth Geek on April 09, 2008, 09:33:04 PM
Such a shame to have Thomas Hayden Church wasted like that.
He was definitely better "wasted" in Sideways.
Peter would have to get some Neutrogena.
Spider-Man must appease us. First he must bring back ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!
Really, as long as it didn't completely suck again I'd be happy. Give us one villain, that's right one, develop him well, make him credible, have a great battle at the end, and don't try and break up MJ and Peter again just to put them back together at the end. It's just not going to work, it's not going to create tension, we see it coming a mile and a half away, forget it.
Three words. Kraven's Last Hunt. They introduce Kraven the Hunter in the first quarter of the movie, set up his rivarly with Spidey in the second quarter, and use the last half as Kraven believing he has killed Spidey and taking his place. And at the end...
Kraven kills himself.
Peter would need to not be such a melodramatic whiner. One of the staples of Spider-Man comics is Spidey's wisecracking sense of humor, which was pretty much absent in the Sam Raimi movies.
I think turning Curt Connors into the Lizard would be a good villain since Dr. Connors has already had small roles in all the other movies so audiences aren't completely unfamiliar with him. If not him, then maybe Felicia Hardy as Black Cat as a villain/anti-hero and cause a love-triangle.
They could be like every other movie and actually hire GOOD LOOKING people to star in it.
I would like to see Connors turn into the Lizard gradually, like Goldblum in The Fly. That way it's not absolutely ridiculous like some bad Sci-Fi Channel movie with him transforming like a werewolf into the Geico Gecko. Even Raimi could get into this. He could catch a fly with his tongue. Perfect homage. Give us a break from the Instant Villain Mix (Just Add Experiment).
Kraven I don't like. I know some people think it's brilliant that he's a hunter in the concrete jungle, but it would look pretty stupid to have a shirtless guy with a lion mane around his neck running around NYC. So the question is, would people bitch if his costume and look was changed? Because I would make him more like Blade or the Punisher, with high tech hunting equipment that would make sense in this context. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the character was created for NYC like Spidey, so he would simply have to be tailored. The thing is, it would be a pretty dull sequel after all the CG.
Quote from: mlcorcoran on April 10, 2008, 06:33:52 AM
Peter would need to not be such a melodramatic whiner. One of the staples of Spider-Man comics is Spidey's wisecracking sense of humor, which was pretty much absent in the Sam Raimi movies.
:clap:
Totally agree. Although it must be a lot tougher to replicate the humour in a movie as you cannot 'freeze' the action the same way you can in a comic strip panel, I have really missed that side of the old Web-slinger.
Quote from: mlcorcoran on April 10, 2008, 06:33:52 AM
Peter would need to not be such a melodramatic whiner. One of the staples of Spider-Man comics is Spidey's wisecracking sense of humor, which was pretty much absent in the Sam Raimi movies.
I think turning Curt Connors into the Lizard would be a good villain since Dr. Connors has already had small roles in all the other movies so audiences aren't completely unfamiliar with him. If not him, then maybe Felicia Hardy as Black Cat as a villain/anti-hero and cause a love-triangle.
NO LOVE TRIANGLE! >_<
None dammit! If there's one thing this franchise has proven, it's that they can't do a romantic subplot for beans.
where was there a love triangle in the Sam Raimi movies? the one date with gwen stacy that ended in disaster? the random flirting with the landlord's daughter for a couple random moments in 2 and 3? i don't think those count.
but you're probably right, it still wouldn't be a good idea for a movie. i was just thinkin cuz Black Cat is one of those semi-decent characters.
who else would be a good Spidey 4 villain?
Vulture's lame, Electro's lame, Morbius is a little too out-there, Carnage is out of the question cuz they killed their version of Venom, Rhino's lame, Chameleon's lame
Scorpion and Lizard are the only ones that come to my mind. But then again I'm by no means a Spidey expert. I'm just trying to recall what I can from the 90s cartoon I used to watch.
Get a new actor to play Peter Parker and Spiderman.
Fire Sam Rami. Get someone who understands Spiderman and can put in the humor from the comics that these movies were missing.
Make the Lizard the villain.
The movies try too hard to be romantic, that's why I classify them as Chick Flicks
I think Kraven would be cool, then they could have a flash back to him on a rooftop, pointing his sniper rifle at Uncle Ben because the King Pin put a hit out on him, for some reason, they can figure it out later
;D
At this point all the villains are ridiculous except for Scorpion and Shocker.
You know what Spiderman 4 needs?
MORE TOPHER GRACE AS VENOM!!
Because when I think of Venom, I immediately picture Topher freakin' Grace. Yeesh. The whole black suit subplot should have been cut and saved for another movie.
I'm sorry... I just finished watching that steaming pile called Spiderman 3 for the first time and I'm feeling a little hostile. Thank God for Rifftrax, I couldn't have made it to the end with out it.
Anyway, I agree that adapting Kraven's Last Hunt into a film would be the right way to go. And you need the Lizard in there since you've already established Dr. Connors. But no more villains than that. Two at the very most.
Either that or just scrap the damn franchise then come out with Spiderman Begins in about ten years. Which is starting to sound like a good idea.
Quote from: Doctor Who? on April 11, 2008, 07:39:36 AM
Get a new actor to play Peter Parker and Spiderman.
Fire Sam Rami. Get someone who understands Spiderman and can put in the humor from the comics that these movies were missing.
Make the Lizard the villain.
Sam Raimi did a great job with the first two. Given more creative control and less studio oversight, he could probably do a great job with the fourth one.
The problem here is the same problem that eventually faces every successful superhero franchise. The stakes get too high, the cast gets too bloated, the studio takes the reins away from the director, and the whole thing falls apart. The fourth one--if we get a fourth one--will suck even worse, because the studio will interfere even more, and force the director to include even more villians/heroes/potential love interests. And it will flop, and the franchise will languish for a decade until someone reboots it again.
I am not saying Sam Rami was bad,but the reason Vemom was treated so poorly was because Sam didn't know anything about him because Venom was after his time.
I don't think their are any other villains from Sam's time that will look good on film so sadly I think he will have to be fired if we want the villain in the next movie to be treated well.
I should have explained that before.
Sorry.
QuoteThe problem here is the same problem that eventually faces every successful superhero franchise. The stakes get too high, the cast gets too bloated, the studio takes the reins away from the director, and the whole thing falls apart. The fourth one--if we get a fourth one--will suck even worse, because the studio will interfere even more, and force the director to include even more villians/heroes/potential love interests. And it will flop, and the franchise will languish for a decade until someone reboots it again.
I agree completely with this statement. Its a shame what has happened to both the X-men and Spiderman franchises. Both had wonderful second iterations, but their 3rd movies respectively each created a black hole for each franchise that I don't think either could escape from.
Quote from: Crowmeus on April 10, 2008, 06:22:00 AM
Three words. Kraven's Last Hunt. They introduce Kraven the Hunter in the first quarter of the movie, set up his rivarly with Spidey in the second quarter, and use the last half as Kraven believing he has killed Spidey and taking his place. And at the end...
Kraven kills himself.
^ The very definition of redemption for me!
Like others have mentioned, Connors is established, and the logical choice for the next villain. I'm not sure if Raimi is helming 4 but if so, the next villain will probably be...
(https://forum.rifftrax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcostumzee.com%2Fview%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2007%2F06%2Fvulture.gif&hash=1c2f8bf8c7f9177ca2da213edcaf30d251be2dcd)
:P
I'm going to assume that's the Vulture dude
in which case
QuoteRaimi wanted another villain, and Ben Kingsley was involved in negotiations to play the Vulture before the character was cut. Producer Avi Arad convinced Raimi to include Venom, a character whose perceived "lack of humanity" had initially been criticized by Sam Raimi. Venom's alter-ego, Eddie Brock, already had a minor role in the script. Arad told the director that Venom had a strong fan base, so Raimi included the character to please them
Raimi should only include a character if he/she has a strong dramatic purpose. Neither Gwen Stacy nor Venom/Eddie Brock really had one so they both should have been cut from the film.
Well, I's say the Sinister 6, but Spider-man did what must superhero movies do: They kill the villain at the end for no good reason. Honestly, I'd like to see a taut thriller in the next one with the Sinister 6 chasing him from one end of NYC to the other for 2 hours. Cut all of the fat out of this movie. No goofy humor, no badly written romance, no Uncle Ben flashbacks, no struggling with the great weight of having superpowers, just a 15-20 minute setup, then running, running, running, falling, getting the holy hell beat out of him , then getting back up and running some more, then getting thrown through a building, but he still gets up and keeps running . I want Spider-man to know, not think, he's going to die by these villians and still keep running.I want the audience to come out of the theater shaking from the adrenalin rush. That's what I want out of the next Spider-Man movie. It'll never happen, though.
To extenuate this a smidgen, I was really hoping for a centric Peter/Harry (you could've introduced the Hobgoblin for all that matters as well) showdown in 3 while establishing Eddie & Gwen in some capacity, much like the Connors' buildup. I was more letdown with the conclusion of the Peter/Harry angle than the tragedy that was Venom's joke of an inclusion.
I'm still in shock by just how badly they dropped the ball w/ 3. Outside of Kraven being the villain in 4, there isn't anyway I can get excited for it, and that's cool.
Quote from: Jacob T. Caboose on April 11, 2008, 07:50:13 AM
The movies try too hard to be romantic, that's why I classify them as Chick Flicks
I think Kraven would be cool, then they could have a flash back to him on a rooftop, pointing his sniper rifle at Uncle Ben because the King Pin put a hit out on him, for some reason, they can figure it out later
;D
You know, by the time they're done putting out these turkey's, Uncle Ben's going to have more apparent murderers than President Kennedy.
What would it have to do to redeem the series for me?
Mary Jane gets a symbiote.
And then she eats somebody.
I'd give it a bare minimum of 3 stars as long as it had that story element. I mean, you can put all kinds of spins on it. Maybe she eats the landlady's daughter in a fit of highly irrational, symbiote-charged jealousy, maybe she uses her symbiote powers to unhinge her jaw and swallow Spiderman whole, so he has to spend the rest of the film occaisionally narrating from inside her stomach while she's out bar-hopping with her girlfriends and arm-wrestling sandman.
I could go on like this all night, but I need to sleep at some point.