First time post- but proud mistie since 95.
I grant you that i have only seen clips of the first movie from CT. But honestly- I have no intention of spending my money on it.
Heresy?
I'll tell you why.
The guys here at RiffTrax have worked too hard.
The guys (call them film crew, riff trax or whatever- i call them some of the funniest guys i have ever paid to watch or listen to) brought it back- especially Mike who brought this all about through Legend. Mike took the concept- evolved it- and made it work for a new audience. And it's incredibly entertaining- watching 300 with Rifftrax now.
CT is, to me, a group of people who said, "Hey- those guys are doing it- lets jump on". So they tried to jump aboard the success that RiffTrax has had. These are people that with one exception- quit MST3k. They thought it was time to move on, weren't happy doing it, were bored, or just thought the show and idea had run it's course.
But once they see the guys have a great following and getting more accolades from doing this- they want a piece of the action.
So for me, I am staying with the ones who brung me. Maybe Joel created MST3k. But Mike was always a superior host, and a phenominal writer. Kev will always be Servo to me. And Bill Corbett, he should have been along the whole time on MST3k. (don't get me wrong- I liked Trace, but Bill is a funny, funny guy.)
Those three brought back the riffs, they are the ones who have- metaphorically- kept on circulating the tapes.
I know I will probably take a bit of a flaming for this- but it's my honest opinion.
And hey- I doubt Kev ever reads this- but if he does...Year at the Movies was spectacular :)
Well, I respect Mike, Bill, and Kevin as much as anyone, but I wouldn't let that stop you from enjoying CT. I do have a special place in my heart for these guys who stayed with the riffing gig when everyone else was leaving it for seemingly greener pastures, for the same reason I respect couples who stay married even when the grass starts to look greener on the other side. But similarly, I also respect people who have the balls to admit the grass wasn't greener, as it turned out, and come back to what they love, and I will always believe in second chances.
Maybe a touch dramatic, but I admire both the steadfast and the repentant, and that does carry over into other, less important realms as well (like riffing).
This isn't thoughts on Cinematic Titanic this is you justifying why you don't want to spend the money to get it.
Mike, and the crew have said they wish CT the best and who knows there could always be a collaboration between the two camps in the future.
Whatever, if you don't want to get it then it's your loss.
I doubt the reasons you list for people leaving the show are true except for Joel, and I doubt he was bored, he just wanted to do things the Mallon didn't want to do... Frank and Trace both left when the network was losing intrest in the show (CC, before the move to Sci-Fi), they had the chance to get some work in Hollywood and took it, most people would if they felt their current jobs were going to be gone soon...
If you are not supporting CT out of loyalty to RiffTrax that's your option, nothing wrong with that. I'll keep buying CT in the hope they get better, both CT and RiffTrax are niche markets so they both could use all the support we can give them if we want to get more....
I watched the trailer, I really liked the layout of the six riffers all standing/sitting there, that made me laugh. Sadly, nothing else did. I really want them to do well, I think it is awesome they are doing it, but I gotta say, I prefer Rifftrax, I don't know if it is better writing, or just delivery. But I'm sticking with Rifftrax.
I have nothing against Joel, but for some reason I can't watch any of the MST3K's with him in them, I know they all had pretty much the same writers and stuff throughout all the seasons, but I think Mike has more charisma and better delivery than Joel.
So good luck Cinematic Titanic, I will check you out again when your next movie comes out, but the Oozing skull hasn't really interested me.
Quote from: SaucyRossy on January 30, 2008, 06:58:06 PM
This isn't thoughts on Cinematic Titanic this is you justifying why you don't want to spend the money to get it.
Mike, and the crew have said they wish CT the best and who knows there could always be a collaboration between the two camps in the future.
Whatever, if you don't want to get it then it's your loss.
Actually this is my thoughts on Cinematic Titanic. I didn't say my thoughts on The Oozing Skull. It was my thoughts on the project. I appreciate a passionate stance on the subject, as I think that most of the RiffTrax fans are made up of steadfast Mysties. However, these are my feelings on the project.
And no, I don't believe there will be a collaboration at any time. I honestly don't. While RiffTrax has wished the best for them, Joel has flat out not acknowledged Rifftrax in an interview where a question was asked about it. And Trace has claimed to not know what RiffTrax was, and then say no he probably wouldn't be involved in that, once it was clarified.
I have always felt there were two different camps, and I think this has shown it a bit more. I am certainly dissapointed, as I always loved Trace as a part of the MST3k universe, but frankly RiffTrax has the three people I need and I think puts out a great product.
Re: Fortis-
I agree- visually it's interesting to have the riffers. But like you aside from a few chuckles the trailer left me wanting. And some reviews I am reading deff. agree with this- that it lacks the punch, and there are far too many long stretches of nothing- even at points that cry out for a riff.
And I agree- Mike was a more charismatic host, and I enjoy his delivery more.
And marty- you can find different interviews on the web as to why people left. But I assure you I am not exagerating, I am basing on interviews with Joel, Trace, and others.
Wow.
I really just saw someone cut off their own nose to spite their face.
I had no idea there where two "camps",I always thought the MST3K guys all got along.
I can understand liking one host more then another,but this is weird.
Why do you hate Joel again,i mean he created the show?
What is this all about.
If you don't like the format or the jokes on CT that is one thing,but to decide not to even give it a shot and maybe miss out on some great riffing just becouse you think there is some war between Joel and Mike,,,
I mean wow.
This makes the Kirk Vs. Picard people look almost sane.
Wow.
Yeah, I agree. It's not like you can't buy both. Buying one doesn't betray the other. I think some rifftrax employees bought the CT dvd even. :)
Personally, I haven't bought CT just because I'm too cheap, but I will probably buy it once it becomes downloadable.
Quote from: Doctor Who? on January 31, 2008, 08:38:04 PM
Wow.
I really just saw someone cut off their own nose to spite their face.
I had no idea there where two "camps",I always thought the MST3K guys all got along.
I can understand liking one host more then another,but this is weird.
Why do you hate Joel again,i mean he created the show?
What is this all about.
If you don't like the format or the jokes on CT that is one thing,but to decide not to even give it a shot and maybe miss out on some great riffing just becouse you think there is some war between Joel and Mike,,,
I mean wow.
This makes the Kirk Vs. Picard people look almost sane.
Wow.
Okay this is just flaming for the sake of flaming. To say I cut off my nose to spite my face...you pulled a well known quote in an attempt to cut me down and it in no way applies to absolutely anything I said. Its like someone using their word of the day calendar to rebut an argument.
To claim no knowledge of what I am talking about what I say the camps. Um...there is rifftrax and ct...that is two camps. Now, I don't claim to know Mike or Kev or Bill...or anyone that has anything to do with RiffTrax...but I am pretty sure they aren't under the same production umbrella as CT so that would make it two different entities.
Think through your argument before you flame.
Besides- if you really think they all got along and frolicked in kittens- why did Josh leave because he was so unhappy- in fact why did anyone leave? People didnt' get along with each other. I dont' claim insider information- but simple logic tells you that. Plus a little research.
I don't hate Joel, but I feel this is a case of Jealousy. Rifftrax is gaining popularity and these people want their own piece of the pie. Fine and dandy- but I don't have to buy it. I have never said I hate Joel- I very much enjoyed Joel's tenure as host and technocrat of the show. He was the host when i became a Mystie. However As stated other places in this forum even, in some interviews he has come off as an ass. And not even acknowledging RiffTrax until all the fuss came up adds to it. Sorry I don't buy the newsletter deal. He got caught trying to dismiss it, got called on it. And now they are trying to bat it around as banter. And it doesnt' fly. Its called spin. Or damage control if you prefer.
I feel you have taken everything I have said out of context. I have never damned Frank Coniff's family to the seventh circle of hell, nor have I hoped for a painful flaying of Mary Jo Pehl that involves her still living form in a salt bath. I have merely stated that I felt that CT was a "Me Too" product and I had no interest. This was based on reading multiple reviews, and formulating my own opinion on said reviews and my person feelings. I shared these feelings here, and it ends at that. I hold a gun to no one's head and demand they drink the kool aid. I simply wanted to use the forum for it's intended use- to share my feelings.
Don't try to dismissively paint me as a geek with your Kirk vs. Picard statement either. this is me weighing two products. And I feel one of them is inferior and trying to hold on desperately to the past.
As for Amanda- my feelings aren't totally out of loyalty for RiffTrax- though I am loyal. My opinion is based on reviews of the first episode and how it was very sub par. And the fact that most of the people involved were people I didn't particularly enjoy (save for Frank and Trace). Sorry- but Josh was horrible and has made every early episode I have tried to watch- unwatchable.
I want to make it clear I am not trying to start a holy war- just voicing my opinion.
Wait,what?
Are you calling me a flamer just becouse I think your coming on the CT boards to say that Joel is only doing this to cash in. Given that you have said you are not going to even give CT a chance I fail to see why you would even come to the CT boards to say anything,seems to me if anyone's a flamer it's you.
people get to change jobs once in a while you know. Hey do you have any idea how many times the writers for the Simpsons have left for a few years and come back? If that is truly what Joel has done he is just a babe in the woods compared to The Simpson's writers and producers.
Also two project dose not mean that there are two camps. I mean does going to the Sears tower mean that you don't support the Empire State Building,or that if you go to the ESB you don't support the Sears Tower? They are both tall buildings after all.
Also Joel Created MST3K so if anyone cashed in on it it was Mike when he couldn't get another job. Also I love Rifftrax but it is not that big,I only found it last fall when my computer took me here by mistake.
Also did you ever think that maybe the only reason Joel didn't talk about Rifftrax is becouse he has not had the chance to listen to one yet and unlike you he didn't want to open his mouth about something he hadn't tried yet?
Also Mike has wished Joel well so why can't you?
Also if you enjoyed MST3K then this is a perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are not even giving new movie Riffing project from the creator of MST3K a chance becouse for some reason you think you will be betraying Mike even when he has stated that this isn't the case.
Also sorry but this iis one of the geekist(Is that even a word?)things I have ever seen,and being a Doctor Who fan I would know.
Quote from: callmeMRTIBBS on January 31, 2008, 11:09:38 PM
I want to make it clear I am not trying to start a holy war- just voicing my opinion.
As someone on this board once told me, your opinion is wrong. ;)
You should probably quit while you're behind.
Quote from: BEERxTaco on February 01, 2008, 07:31:03 AM
Quote from: callmeMRTIBBS on January 31, 2008, 11:09:38 PM
I want to make it clear I am not trying to start a holy war- just voicing my opinion.
As someone on this board once told me, your opinion is wrong. ;)
You should probably quit while you're behind.
:D :D :D Classic!
Quote from: Doctor Who? on February 01, 2008, 06:55:18 AM
...I only found it last fall when my computer took me here by mistake.
I am scared of your computer's abilities.
Me too.
I can't remember what i was looking for but i think i must have miss spelled it.
I may not have cared for The Oozing Skull myself, but I do look forward to what CT maybe putting out in the future.
Can this (and other similar) posts just be hurled into one giant trash heap of a thread called "Mike vs. Joel"? It'd be like a flaming tire yard that could just burn itself for a few millennia.
Quote from: Scott M Davis on February 01, 2008, 02:43:00 PM
I may not have cared for The Oozing Skull myself, but I do look forward to what CT maybe putting out in the future.
I didn't care for it either but hey it's only the first one so I'll be giving them many chances
Thankfully both projects are fairly inexpensive to support and even with the ocassional MST3K boxset I can buy everything both groups release.
I think Mike deserves credit for everything he has done with The Film Crew and Rifftrax, but from what I have read Joel and Trace had been planning something along the lines of CT for a long time so I don't think it was just a case of seeing Rifftrax and saying lets copy that.
The thing I really like is both projects are pretty different. Mike has a certain edge to the Rifftrax writing I like for major films and Joel has recaptured a more MSTie feel for CT not to mention the shadowrama look of the old show. Both complement each other well and the thing I hope for the most is the success of both projects.
I like it all. I'm down with anything Mike, Bill, Kevin and Joel do. It's the fan rip offs that won't get my support.
Quote from: izatright on February 03, 2008, 01:11:15 AM
I like it all. I'm down with anything Mike, Bill, Kevin and Joel do. It's the fan rip offs that won't get my support.
I can't say I don't support 'em however I'm interested in 'em either. one day I might give them a chance but if I wanna do that I might as just invite my boring friends over and riff on movies myself (not to say the fan rips are boring but...).
Quote from: callmeMRTIBBS on January 30, 2008, 12:22:38 PM
These are people that with one exception- quit MST3k. They thought it was time to move on, weren't happy doing it, were bored, or just thought the show and idea had run it's course.
Weird to say that, but then use this reference:
Quote from: callmeMRTIBBS on January 31, 2008, 05:37:32 PM
Joel has flat out not acknowledged Rifftrax in an interview where a question was asked about it.
Which is from the same article where Joel explained the reason he left (likely the same unnamed person Mike didn't refer to in an article) and said he really didn't want to but felt he had to.
And just since I'm here... Never fully bought into the bandwagon idea... Star Wait came out in 2005, the movie it's based on came out in 2002, and Reefer Madness was released in 2004 which probably didn't get enough attention to make them jealous... Rifftrax/Film Crew may have been a part in them doing this, but Trace and Josh were also doing AFHV for years as well as the Star Wait thing of the 3 of them, so it's not like this is the first time they've all been back doing this in 10 years just to ride Mike's coattails.
Also, surprised no one brought up 'Glitter' to his 2 camps delusion. Sorry brah, the glass is half full and great minds think alike
Before this turns into a flame war, I'd like to say that a "camp" is often used to describe two groups of people with the same ideals - political, or whatever. So it is true that there is a RiffTrax camp and a CT camp - since there are two riffing groups selling a product in which they riff on movies. Mary Jo riffing on Glitter can now be considered to be a crossover event, but that doesn't destroy the fact that there are two separate riffing groups. So at that, Tibbs is correct.
It's fair enough to say "I won't be buying it because I don't think it'll be good." That's loads different from "I'm not buying it because JOEL SUXX)RZ AND STOLE MIKE'S IDEA!!!!11one1" which, to be honest, is kind of a silly argument. As far as I know, nobody's copyrighted the idea of riffing on movies. Just my personal opinion, anyway - and for an MST fan, I'm surprised that the CT experiment isn't at least invoking a smidge of interest in you.
Quote from: torgosPizza on February 03, 2008, 02:15:10 PM
As far as I know, nobody's copyrighted the idea of riffing on movies. Just my personal opinion, anyway - and for an MST fan, I'm surprised that the CT experiment isn't at least invoking a smidge of interest in you.
The lack of interest surprises me as well. I'll never understand the lengths people will go through to invent reasons for not liking something.
I'll have to admit I didn't like the sample they made for Oozing Skull, a better sample would get more people interested. And lackluster reviews don't mean bad reviews, I don't think I've seen any bad reviews of CT#1, it's unfortunate that it comes out after we've had some of the best from RiffTrax (all the holiday stuff) so there's an unfair comparison going on.
Quote from: torgosPizza on February 03, 2008, 02:15:10 PM
It's fair enough to say "I won't be buying it because I don't think it'll be good." That's loads different from "I'm not buying it because JOEL SUXX)RZ AND STOLE MIKE'S IDEA!!!!11one1" which, to be honest, is kind of a silly argument. As far as I know, nobody's copyrighted the idea of riffing on movies. Just my personal opinion, anyway - and for an MST fan, I'm surprised that the CT experiment isn't at least invoking a smidge of interest in you.
I really tried giving CT a chance, I did a lot of research on what people were saying about it, watched the trailer. And I saw a huge amount of potential, seeing the riffers was extremely satisfying. But like I said before, even when watching MST3K, I just could never really get into the riffing style that Joel had. I can see why people would think its funny, but I just like Mike's delivery better. Which is really unfortunate as that is tons of episodes of MST3K I will probably never watch.
I do however, want CT to do really well. And a Mike and Joel Rifftrax would be awesome. So on that note I would like to say...CT HAD BETTER BE GOOD, AND RIFFTRACTSSS TO!!!111!!!!
I'm going to check it out - I'm a Mike-Kevin-Joel-Trace-Bill-and whoever else fan.
At first glance, I do not like how crowded the screen is and the scaffolding setup....I can't see the movie!!
I've gotten used to Rifftrax and I don't really want anyone in the frame - just the commentary, please.
Otherwise, I am looking forward to it.
Quote from: FortisRevenge on January 30, 2008, 11:14:51 PM
I watched the trailer, I really liked the layout of the six riffers all standing/sitting there, that made me laugh. Sadly, nothing else did. I really want them to do well, I think it is awesome they are doing it, but I gotta say, I prefer Rifftrax, I don't know if it is better writing, or just delivery. But I'm sticking with Rifftrax.
I have nothing against Joel, but for some reason I can't watch any of the MST3K's with him in them, I know they all had pretty much the same writers and stuff throughout all the seasons, but I think Mike has more charisma and better delivery than Joel.
So good luck Cinematic Titanic, I will check you out again when your next movie comes out, but the Oozing skull hasn't really interested me.
I'm with you 100%. I'll support CT and buy their DVDs, but I have to say I find RT extremely funnier. It's the mike vs. joel pandora's box again - and I don't wanna start that foolishness up, but my personal preference will always be Mike and the gang. Joel's riffs are a little too dry and more like just clever observations. not my bag. I don't enjoy joel episodes of MST3K either.
I'm old enough, as I'm sure a few of us are, to remember MST with both Joel and Mike. Obviously, with DVDs anyone can see some of Joel's episodes, but it was different to watch Joel, Joel, Joel, ...Mike. In the end, I found that I preferred Mike's more "cutting" style than Joel's kind of laid back goofiness. In fact, it might be why I enjoy the Episode I rifftrax so much; Mike and Kevin don't give that movie, Lucas, or any of the actors an inch--and with the right movies it works.
But all of that isn't to say that I didn't like Joel as a host. "Mitchell", "Eegah", and the infamous "Manos" are among my favorite MST episodes. That said, however, I didn't really think the CT project looked that funny. I'll confess that some of that may be due to my feeling that Joel kind of abandoned the show to move onto bigger, better things. That always rubbed me the wrong way. Furthermore, he kind of brushed off MST questions when interviewed.
So, it's not surprising at all to me that after years of mostly mediocre gigs and performances, just as Rifftrax gets really popular, all of a sudden Joel wants to get back to his roots and get back into riffing. There's something too convenient about that. I know that some of you just love riffing of all kinds and think of it as one big family, but even though the guys keep saying they're "wishing CT the best" by the fact that's the line they keep using, it seems like they might have another opinion and are just being civil.
Maybe I'm being silly and reading too much into things, but Mike stuck with it. Mike never seems ashamed that he's that "MST guy." I think, for a time, Joel tried to distance himself from it. Which is his right. But it's also mine to stick with Rifftrax.
I think RiffTrax and CT fill two different niches.
Growing up watching MST3K, I always thought it woudl be neat to do newer more modern movies. Unfortunately, it would be highly expensive to do so since the rights would have to be purchased. So RiffTrax fulfills that dream since they have figured out a way to riff movies without having to gain rights to whatever movie they riff.
The CT project fulfills my one wish with RiffTrax - that the sillouetes could be seen during the movie so tha thte sight gags could make a return. Unfortunately, the only way to do sillouetes would be to do it digitally or chroma-keyed, and distribute it on a DVD. It's unfortunate because again, they have to purchase the rights to the movie in order to distribute it.
Could sillouetes be done with modern movies? I can think of only two ways. One would be with a special software program that super-imposes the sillouetes. The other would be to provide some sort of video processing hardware that would insert the sillouete into the video image. Both have their drawbacks. Software would only allow a sillouete Rifftrax to be viewed on a PC, or on a home theater setup where the media player is a home theater PC. The hardware problem would be that it would probably be a bit pricey.
So, because of these technical and legal difficulties, I see CT and RiffTrax as filling two different niches which both have to do with making fun of movies.
However, I really do hope that they will get together and do crossover projects. Both with Mike, Kevin and Bill doing a CT and Joel, Frank, Josh, Trace, and Mary coming over to do some Rifftrax projects. Ideally they would just merge the two products and release both Rifftrax and CT releases. Honestly, now that I think about it, I think Rifftrax is moving in the CT direction with their experaments with the Rifftrax on Demand. The next logical step would be to offer a digital download of a full length movie (albeit public domain) complete with sillouetes. I wish they could just combine their talents and do both.
As for which host was better, I was sad to see Joel leave. But I did like Mike also. They both have their own styles, and for me, they both worked very well. Comparing Joel and Mike is like comparing Drama and Sci-Fi. Is one better than the other? No, they are different styles. Some people prefer one, some the other. As for me, I like them both.
On one final note, it will never truly be a MST3K reincarnation without THE BOTS! I mean, I can't see a human actor pulling off the type of comedy and jokes that the bots were able to pull off. It just doesn't work as well. Unfortunately, even if bots are brought back, I doubt it would be possible to bring back THE bots in the form of Crow, Tom and Gypsy, since their likenesses are probably owned by Best Brains aka Jim Mallon. Too bad. Perhaps Best Brains will bring back MST3K as a digital download product. But if the rumors are even slightly true, it seems that the original cast wouldn't be on board.
Well, enough rambling.
Just don't forget that RiffTrax is just about as open ended a format as we decide it is. Though by the necessity of the way the downloadable trax work, it is important for people to have access to the DVDs, hence popular movies. But through DVD distribution and VOD, this opens the door to more obscure movies like Missile to the Moon, as well as short format stuff. Hopefully we'll continue to be able to keep things varied and interesting as we go forward.
My thought; I wont watch it for reasons that wont be good enough, but I will continue to buy every rifftrax and VOD that comes out. I just cant officially take sides, Rifftrax is funny as hell and I only time for so many things
It's hilarious, if you're a fan of riffing you'll enjoy it.
BTW, I'm loving these Rifftrax shorts... keep em coming!
Quote from: DanLW on February 21, 2008, 11:31:09 PM
I think RiffTrax and CT fill two different niches.
Growing up watching MST3K, I always thought it woudl be neat to do newer more modern movies. Unfortunately, it would be highly expensive to do so since the rights would have to be purchased. So RiffTrax fulfills that dream since they have figured out a way to riff movies without having to gain rights to whatever movie they riff.
The CT project fulfills my one wish with RiffTrax - that the sillouetes could be seen during the movie so tha thte sight gags could make a return. Unfortunately, the only way to do sillouetes would be to do it digitally or chroma-keyed, and distribute it on a DVD. It's unfortunate because again, they have to purchase the rights to the movie in order to distribute it.
Could sillouetes be done with modern movies? I can think of only two ways. One would be with a special software program that super-imposes the sillouetes. The other would be to provide some sort of video processing hardware that would insert the sillouete into the video image. Both have their drawbacks. Software would only allow a sillouete Rifftrax to be viewed on a PC, or on a home theater setup where the media player is a home theater PC. The hardware problem would be that it would probably be a bit pricey.
So, because of these technical and legal difficulties, I see CT and RiffTrax as filling two different niches which both have to do with making fun of movies.
However, I really do hope that they will get together and do crossover projects. Both with Mike, Kevin and Bill doing a CT and Joel, Frank, Josh, Trace, and Mary coming over to do some Rifftrax projects. Ideally they would just merge the two products and release both Rifftrax and CT releases. Honestly, now that I think about it, I think Rifftrax is moving in the CT direction with their experaments with the Rifftrax on Demand. The next logical step would be to offer a digital download of a full length movie (albeit public domain) complete with sillouetes. I wish they could just combine their talents and do both.
As for which host was better, I was sad to see Joel leave. But I did like Mike also. They both have their own styles, and for me, they both worked very well. Comparing Joel and Mike is like comparing Drama and Sci-Fi. Is one better than the other? No, they are different styles. Some people prefer one, some the other. As for me, I like them both.
On one final note, it will never truly be a MST3K reincarnation without THE BOTS! I mean, I can't see a human actor pulling off the type of comedy and jokes that the bots were able to pull off. It just doesn't work as well. Unfortunately, even if bots are brought back, I doubt it would be possible to bring back THE bots in the form of Crow, Tom and Gypsy, since their likenesses are probably owned by Best Brains aka Jim Mallon. Too bad. Perhaps Best Brains will bring back MST3K as a digital download product. But if the rumors are even slightly true, it seems that the original cast wouldn't be on board.
Well, enough rambling.
Did I post again under a different name?!?! Dan- you said what I say exactly! I guess great minds think a like huh?!?!?