Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread

[Kete]

I loved that the new characters were able to carry the movie on their own for at least a half hour before any of the old cast showed up.  It gave them a chance to shine, and they most certainly did.

[soguru]

And it even did some things better than the original trilogy.

[JimJ]

So, flaws first to get that out of the way.  Also, not using spoiler tags.  It's a spoiler thread, you shouldn't be here if you don't want to see them.

1. I kind of wish the plot wasn't recycled stuff from A New Hope.  I really only half consider this a flaw because I still liked the story a lot, but it would've been cool to see something a little more original.

2. Did everyone read "Lightsaber Combat for Dummies" or something?  I can buy Rey holding her own with a saber because the Force and all that, but Finn?  An ex-storm trooper with no apparent force ability can just pick up a lightsaber and do OK in a battle with someone who was presumably trained by Luke?  I don't like it.

3. Snoke?  That's the name your going with for the Supreme Leader?  I also hate the design of that character.  I hope there's some kind of man behind the curtain thing going on there.

I'm sure there are more flaws but they aren't springing to mind and, frankly, I'm tired of focusing on the negative right now.  I loved the movie a lot.  It's great to see a Star Wars movie that feels like a Star Wars movie.  The prequels really just sucked the life out of the franchise and this movie has the exact opposite effect.  I could not be more excited to see where this story is going next.  I loved the new characters, especially Rey and BB-8.  Daisy Ridley gives one of the best performances in the entire series IMO, she's amazing.  I'm going again tomorrow night and can't wait.  I wasn't crazy about the 3D so I'm going 2D this time.

[Kete]

My favorite scene in the whole movie was fixing the hyperdrive. BB8 giving a thumbs up, and Rey asking for Finn to hand her a tool.

Is it just me, or is Daisy Ridley an exact clone of Keira Knightly? Are they going to reveal that Rey is the granddaughter of one of Padme's handmaidens?

I'm so very sad to see Han go, but I think it was right.

[Relaxing Dragon]

Okay, let me fanboy here for a sec. Oh, my stars... What a ride.

Since this is the spoiler thread, I'd like to say that Han Solo's death hit me hard. I knew it was coming as soon as he stepped on the walkway to talk to Kylo (Ben!). Yet I was stunned as it happened and still numb for several scenes afterward. I knew someone was going to die there, but figured it would be Chewie. That said, Ford finally got his way and killed off Han Solo.

My thoughts exactly. I felt it in my gut as soon the moment the scene began.

But, lemme back up a moment. And this is the spoiler thread, so I'll just jump into things.

I liked it. I really did. I liked it to the point where my biggest complaints, really, is that it wasn't more. Which is a weird complaint to level against a movie, but here we are.

What folks have said about it being a very Star Wars-y Star Wars is true. It models itself a lot after A New Hope, from both locations to plot points to general structure. Really, it's a movie that rides the line between standing in the shadow of what came before it, and being its own new thing. Luckily it also remembers to be terrific fun and excitement and generally good, so that's actually okay (it's not a Jurassic World situation, where the whole movie is coasting off the greater effort of a previous entry).

As Kete pointed out, the movie takes its time with the new characters before bringing in the old favorites, and that, I think, is the real key to its success. Passing The Torch movies tend to fail because they spend so much time basing in the nostalgic glory of what came before, they forget to actually establish the new torch holders as folks worth following. Here, everyone gets actual weight and background, and it sticks! I love the conflicted stormtrooper trying to run to a new future. I love the ace pilot just sort of lingering in the background, ready to be a solid supporting player. I love the new bad guy being the proper end result for all things dark side/light side conflict (Han's death scene made great use of this, which actually went a long way towards making that moment matter more than just it being, well, Han's Death Scene), and expect good things out of that. I love the new girl being a Luke expy minus all the whinyness (for real, Luke in A New Hope deserves a good slapping around). Even little BB-88 was the right level of useful and adorable (his Thumbs Up moment killed in my audience).

It's really just a good movie. Which, like I said, leaves me wanting more. I wish there were more memorable dialogue moments that weren't lifts from prior movies (Han's "The Force doesn't work that way!" is probably the lone standout), I wish the score had something to contribute besides the tunes we already know (say what you will about The Phantom Menace, it got aggressive with a new score and it paid off big time). I wish there was more to the enemy's grand plan than "Let's build the biggest Death Star ever! Third time's the charm!" (the movie seemed to even acknowledge this with Han's jabs about there always being a way to blow it up). But frankly, the movie was still plenty good fun.

Soguru is right. Star Wars has its soul back, and frankly, that matters most.

Though I only hope Episode VIII manages to break free completely, not play it so safe, and become its own iconic thing. Time to escape the shadow completely.

[Relaxing Dragon]

My favorite scene in the whole movie was fixing the hyperdrive. BB8 giving a thumbs up, and Rey asking for Finn to hand her a tool.

Is it just me, or is Daisy Ridley an exact clone of Keira Knightly? Are they going to reveal that Rey is the granddaughter of one of Padme's handmaidens?

I'm so very sad to see Han go, but I think it was right.

I second every word of this post.

2. Did everyone read "Lightsaber Combat for Dummies" or something?  I can buy Rey holding her own with a saber because the Force and all that, but Finn?  An ex-storm trooper with no apparent force ability can just pick up a lightsaber and do OK in a battle with someone who was presumably trained by Luke?  I don't like it.

I actually cut the movie a lot of slack here. For one, it's established that Kylo Ren was pretty badly injured by Chewie's laser blast. Plus, in general, it's part of what they're doing with Kylo in general as a character (something I really like): he's not Darth Vader. He's someone who wants to be, but more torn on the path between Light and Dark. He's highly skilled, but still doesn't have nearly that much control over himself. I mean, earlier in the movie he's freaking out and destroying whole rooms in temper tantrums when things go wrong. So he can swing a lightsaber, but he's not a dominate force. Not to mention, Finn likely had some sort of sword training, what with stormtroopers now having those electric-blade things (a battle against which he lost).

[anais.butterfly]

No explanation why Finn has the amazing ability to aim and hit targets though.

[Tripe]

I like the effect.

You're such a drama queen, waiting for the big reveal.

yes ,yesIam!

[Quantum Vagina]

I like the effect.

You're such a drama queen, waiting for the big reveal.

yes ,yesIam!

Damn Tripe, that's cold.

[SJP]

OK, saw it, too.  The things I liked:

Han Solo.  While the new characters were interesting and I liked where they were going, Ford stole every scene he's in...and he's in a lot more of this than I thought.  I thoroughly agree, "That's not how the Force works!" is a great line.  In fact, there are some really good humorous moments.  While some seemed forced (Poe making quips about Ren's mask garbling his speech was a little too snarky for the tone of the scene, in my opinion), BB-8's 'thumbs up' and the Stormtroopers walking away from Ren's hissy fit were wonderful little moments.

Acting in general.  Yes, the acting is much better than the prequels.  Even though Adam Driver as Ren, when you get right down to it, is a whiny little emo bastard, he is whiny in just the right way.  I also liked that he wears the mask because he thinks it's cool, not because he's actually deformed.  It makes him seem that much more pathetically hero-worshippy.  "Darth wore a mask!  I do too!  I'm Darth Vader!"  I'm saying these are GOOD things...it shows him as an immature, power-hungry, but conflicted brat.  It's a very interesting twist on the dark side; to want power, to crave it, to think you know everything about it, but not understand anything about it.

They certainly explained why Luke isn't on the poster.  I think it's interesting that they made him "Sir-Not-Appearing-In-This-Film."  His little moment at the end of the movie was very nice, but I couldn't help but imagine Mike, Kevin or Bill saying, "About damn time somebody showed up!  Been standing on this cliff for twenty damn years!  I'm starving!"

I thought the new characters and their motivations were charming and fun.  They worked well together, worked well with the original cast members, and I want to see where it all goes.  Poe in general felt like an expanded Wedge, and there's nothing wrong with that.

There's my good stuff.  Now, the bad (and it's not that bad, really...)

While the human story of the film was great, I never got the sense that this was a movie intended to be incredibly expensive.  My friend thought the movie felt "small," and it is.  It focuses so much on the people in it that the majesty of epic scale combat between two massive forces are lost.  Snoke (yes, I thought the name was silly, too) has no gravitas...at least, not yet, the First Order officers are weak-chinned blowhards, and the Resistance just seems to exist because they're supposed to.  When the X-Wings roar in to rescue BB-8 and the rest, you see them fire a few shots and...that's it.  They're just there.  The best action scenes of the whole movie are the Millennium Falcon chase and the lightsaber battle, and when you have people trying to blow up the Starkiller (aka Hyper-Mega-Wow-Death-Star Deluxe) and the thing sort of collapses in on itself without any real punch, you've missed something.  Something that big and powerful should be menacing and meaningful, not just sort of evaporate without any real feel.  Even the death of five planets at once (and was one of them Coruscant?  It looked like it, but nobody seemed interested in-movie in pointing that out) looked cool, but felt sort, "Oh, well."  While Alderaan may not have shown any of the people on it getting vaporized, you know Leia cared about it because it was her homeworld.  Five planets being destroyed should be a big deal, but it's hard to care about them when I don't know what they are.  The destruction of Vulcan in Star Trek had more weight to it...I'm not even a Star Trek fan and I thought that moment was hard-hitting because there was a reason to be concerned about it.

And the death of Han.  I put this down in the bad side not because I thought the scene itself was bad (it's very dramatic), but on reflection, I felt slightly let down.  After all Han has been through, including the indignity of the "Han Shot First" debacle, I thought he really should've gone down swinging.  I know Harrison Ford is probably ecstatic that he doesn't have to play the character again (I know he considers Han way less fun than Indiana Jones), and while the scene has the impact it was going for, and it's supposed to mirror the "Death of Ben" moment of the original (which was anti-climactic in its own right), at that point we only knew Ben for a portion of one movie.  This is Han.  He's been a fighter for four movies now.  He's seen some pretty crazy things.  And he gets sucker-punched.

Still, I enjoyed the movie.  It was fun and it is a good setup for things to come.  But I just wish they could combine the human tone and the acting of this one with the visual flair of the previous six.  Yes, say what you will about the prequels, there's some memorable damn action scenes in those movies.  Outside of the two scenes I mentioned earlier, the action felt rambling and secondary to the characters, and I really thought that aspect of the film suffered badly.  The balance just doesn't seem to be worked out yet...but, seeing that Colin Trevorrow is attached to IX, I think that'll be fixed.  Say what you will about the characters of Jurassic World, the man knows how to make a T-Rex entrance give you chills.  Give him a good script and I think you've got gold on your hands.

[MSTJedi]

3. Snoke?  That's the name your going with for the Supreme Leader?  I also hate the design of that character.  I hope there's some kind of man behind the curtain thing going on there.

I'm right there with you on this. They already foreshadowed that with the reveal that the huge figure that Ren was reporting to was just a hologram. I'm sensing a serious Wizard of Oz quality here.

[Quantum Vagina]

From what I've seen people saying, it looks like it's a 200 million dollar fan remake of A New Hope. Would you guys say that's accurate.

[SJP]

Not completely.  It's certainly got a lot of notes that it hit, but Star Wars is kind of supposed to be like that anyway.  The whole prequel trilogy was supposed to be a mirror of the original trilogy, so seeing it done like this, too, is no surprise, nor does it ruin anything.  But I do agree with RD that the movie is played very safe.  For all the spoiler-hiding, the movie wastes no time in explaining almost everything people were asking about. I mean, all the "Is Luke Kylo Ren?" speculation goes out the window in the opening crawl, for Pete's sake.  I get the sense Abrams is so in awe and reverential of Star Wars that he didn't want to upset the apple cart.  He certainly didn't, but he didn't do much to make it stand on its own.  It's a fun watch, but it has yet to make a leap into radically new and exciting territory.

[Parker_Hylton]

Well, not going to give my opinion because everyone here seems happy geeking out.  What I do want to say is:

Did anyone else do a double take when Mark Hamill turned around and go "Whoa, it's Kevin from Rifftrax" before realizing it was just Luke Skywalker?

Oh, and for those who wondered why Snoke(?) seemed familiar....Andy Serkis

[SJP]

Hey, give your opinion.  Whether you liked it or not, I want the debate.  I'm not going to slam anybody who loved it without question, anyone who thought it was gutter slime, or sort of on the fence about it.  I actually want to hear what people thought about it who hated it, because I want to compare notes.  That's part of the fun of movies.  As long as it doesn't get personal, of all movies I'd love to talk about, it's this one.  I just hope all opinions are honest.

EDIT: And yes, I knew about the second thing, and I did consider the former.  If it WAS Kevin, that might actually have been pretty funny.