Maskless superheroes

[MontyServo]

lots of sad equivocation going on here.  you guys are giving hollywood egotists an out they dont deserve.

just think of a japanese version of the Avengers.  They would completely commit to the full color costumes WITH the masks.  You'd see a Hawkeye in full bright purple and blue with the pointy mask.  Loki with full 10 foot horns on his head.  Etc.

They would go balls-out bigger-than-life in-your-face proud-as-peacocks prime-color heroes just like in the comics.

And yet it would somehow be dignified, more respectful to the comics universe, and you know it would be loved a thousand times more by the fans.

I want proud peacocks not petulant poseurs.

Well said.  The characters in these movies are not superheros because they never get into superhero outfits,they are just a bunch of pretty boys using the names of superheros to sell tickets.  If you think Superheros are too silly to show on screen then why are you making a superhero movie in the first place?  Seems to me the film makers should be honest and admit they think these characters are too silly to make a movie about and if they truly do have a good idea for a movie make it with out using the names of superheros who are not even in the movies.  If you think superheros are so silly why are you even going to the movies.  If superheros have to stop being superheros in order to work in movies maybe they just shouldn't be made into movies in the first place.  That is why Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns are the best Superhero movies ever made,they were not ashamed of being superhero movies and going the whole nine yards.

I don't get the argument here as it relates to The Avengers.  I watched that entire movie and never once felt cheated by how the characters looked.  I was never once confused about which character was which because of slight costume deviations.  I would rather see a superhero film that is grounded in some sense of reality, than some cartoony farce that would only appeal to the most rabid of fanboys.  Because really, if the only faults you can find with the film are friggin' Hawkeye's lack of proper attire and too much face time for actors that "should be" hidden behind masks, then you are hopeless. or a troll.  Probably the latter.

Edit: And by troll, I mean the original poster, not Doc.

[Invader_quirk]

Doc, you HAVEN'T SEEN IT. Don't listen to this guy. There are tons of hardcore comic fans on these boards who loved the movie. The characters are there and they are great. If you think a silly mask is what makes them superheroes, that's ridiculous. They're superheroes because of what they can do and how they choose to use it.

[ScottotD]

a) you haven't seen the movie yet, they are CLEARLY in the outfits as seen in the movie, posters and by everyone living in reality.
b) didn't you LOVE Thor and Captain America?

lots of sad equivocation going on here.  you guys are giving hollywood egotists an out they dont deserve.

just think of a japanese version of the Avengers.  They would completely commit to the full color costumes WITH the masks.  You'd see a Hawkeye in full bright purple and blue with the pointy mask.  Loki with full 10 foot horns on his head.  Etc.

They would go balls-out bigger-than-life in-your-face proud-as-peacocks prime-color heroes just like in the comics.

And yet it would somehow be dignified, more respectful to the comics universe, and you know it would be loved a thousand times more by the fans.

Wolverine would be a Canadian dwarf, most male roles would be played by body builders instead of actors, all fights would be won with a sock to the jaw (as they were in the Stan Lee era),  hugely offensive racial stereotypes would be involved, all the women would have to be CGI to fit the measurements in the comics, etc, etc.  Get a grip

And those things are bad because?

Look, the movie *IS* faithful to the costumes of the characters.  The characters from the 'Ultimates' series

To use Wolverine as an example again, they would have to cast (at least) four actors to play him, a jacked up Canadian dwarf, a Japanese guy, a white guy in his 50s and a white guy in his 20s then give them each about 7 costumes & switch them for every scene because that would be the only way to acurately show the character as he's been shown in the many decades he's been around. 

If you want exact copies of the comic characters, watch the DC animated movies.  A lot of them are very good

[Nunyerbiz]

I'm not a big comic book fan... and most of the comic book movies I enjoy as lightweight popcorn fare... which I think is the point of the whole exercise anyways. Generally speaking, I enjoyed the first Fantastic Four movie as much as say the Captain America movie. Big action, silly one liners, hopefully a decent scenery chewing bad guy... it's not a terribly difficult formula... in either print or on screen.

The difference in movies, of course, is that actors emote as they deliver their lines... they aren't frozen in place underneath a word bubble... and Robert Downey Jr. wouldn't be nearly as fun as a schmarmy smartass if we were staring at a damn plastic helmet for 90 minutes.

That said, consider me sold on the jacked up Canadian midget adaptation of Wolverine.

[RoninFox]

Well said.  The characters in these movies are not superheros because they never get into superhero outfits,they are just a bunch of pretty boys using the names of superheros to sell tickets.  If you think Superheros are too silly to show on screen then why are you making a superhero movie in the first place?  Seems to me the film makers should be honest and admit they think these characters are too silly to make a movie about and if they truly do have a good idea for a movie make it with out using the names of superheros who are not even in the movies.  If you think superheros are so silly why are you even going to
the movies.  If superheros have to stop being superheros in order to work in movies maybe they just shouldn't be made into movies in the first place.  That is why Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns are the best Superhero movies ever made,they were not ashamed of being superhero movies and going the whole nine yards.

Tim Burton's films changed Batman's costume drastically from the comics, as it had never been depicted as body armor before. They also featured Bruce Wayne in scenes more often than Batman because Burton felt that the less Batman was on screen the more powerful his appearance when he appears. Personally I think that "less is more" theory was the smartest part of those two movies, and it is pretty much the same theory at work in the Avengers. You see the characters out of costume a lot leading up to a crisis, then they suit up when they need to. If you were looking at Iron Man and Hulk for two hours plus, they'd wear out thier welcome and it wouldn't feel exciting when there was a change. Putting on the costume or hulking out becomes a symbol that the shit's getting real.

And as for the suits being different. Just like Burton. Burton wanted a costume that made more sense. Not blue cloth, but black body armor, to better blend in with the shadows, terrify criminals, and survive bullet attacks. He made it more real for the universe he was creating, just like the Avengers movies did.

[D.B. Barnes]

...consider me sold on the jacked up Canadian midget adaptation of Wolverine.

It just so happens I've written six volumes of slash-fic featuring jacked-up Canadian midget Wolverine. I'd be glad to send you a set, but I was recently contacted by the F.B.I. and told it was in fact illegal to send through the mail or even transmit electronically.

[Invader_quirk]

...consider me sold on the jacked up Canadian midget adaptation of Wolverine.

It just so happens I've written six volumes of slash-fic featuring jacked-up Canadian midget Wolverine. I'd be glad to send you a set, but I was recently contacted by the F.B.I. and told it was in fact illegal to send through the mail or even transmit electronically.

In that case, it will be warmly welcomed on DeviantArt!

[doggans]

Well said.  The characters in these movies are not superheros because they never get into superhero outfits,

They ARE superheroes, because they do super heroics. Also, they do get into superhero outfits, but even if they didn't, clothes do not define a person, unless the one defining is incredibly shallow.

Wolverine would be a Canadian dwarf, most male roles would be played by body builders instead of actors, all fights would be won with a sock to the jaw (as they were in the Stan Lee era),  hugely offensive racial stereotypes would be involved, all the women would have to be CGI to fit the measurements in the comics, etc, etc.  Get a grip

And those things are bad because?

Did you just ask why hugely offensive racial stereotypes are bad?

[BBQ Platypus]

I really don't understand the complaint here.

Captain America wears the goddamn stars and stripes costume.  But because he occasionally has his mask off, this movie sucks.

Iron Man looks FUCKING EXACTLY LIKE IRON MAN, but because Tony Stark doesn't wear the armor when he's not doing Iron Man stuff and therefore doesn't need it, this movie is a betrayal the likes of which Judas would never dare approach.

Thor?  Looks like Thor, talks like Thor, no wings on the helmet. LAME.

Black Widow doesn't wear a mask.  She's in the skintight catsuit.  Perhaps you want her to go back to the domino mask and bouffant?

The Hulk I understand even less.  He's big, isn't he?  He's green, isn't he?  But you have a problem with the fact that he still bears some resemblance to the actor who plays Bruce Banner?  Doesn't it actually kind of make sense that he would?

The only one I see any grounds for is Hawkeye, but hey, you can't win them all, I guess.  It helps their case that 1) Hawkeye's costume is really fucking stupid, and 2) No reasonable moviegoer - even fans of the character and costume - would think this very satisfying and well-put-together movie sucked solely for this reason.

Fanboys are dumb.  You get a $220 million movie about the Avengers written and directed by one of the chiefs of the modern nerd pantheon despite the fact that he hadn't had a hit in years.  With one measly exception it features some of the most comic-accurate costumes ever seen in a live action studio film.  The studio is even going as far as to put them all in a single comic book-like shared continuity, despite how tremendously ambitious, risky, and expensive that is.  And it paid off.  But are you satisfied?  No, instead you decide to nitpick the lamest and stupidest shit and pretend it's important.  Take a step back and get the fuck over yourselves.

[Danecho1967]

Fanboys are dumb.  You get a $220 million movie about the Avengers written and directed by one of the chiefs of the modern nerd pantheon despite the fact that he hadn't had a hit in years.  The studio is even going as far as to put them all in a single comic book-like shared continuity, despite how tremendously ambitious, risky, and expensive that is.  And it paid off.  But are you satisfied?  No, instead you decide to nitpick the lamest and stupidest shit and pretend it's important. 

Not quite.

They should have brought back David Hasselhoff as Nick Fury!  This movie sucks!

Now, we've nitpicked over the lamest, stupidest shit.

[Rattrap007]

To me it depends on WHO the character is.

Batman/Spiderman - Their identities are unknown to the public. They need to remain masked out in public. When they are Bruce Wayne or Peter Parker, then they should be maskless.

Iron Man - He revealed himself publicly. Can have him in partial suit and maskless.

Captain America - He is publicly known and everyone knows who he is. It is fine for him to go maskless.

Thor - Well known. No "mask". Would like to see him wear the helmet more.


Basically if their identity is known publicly then it is fine for them to appear on street without a mask. If they are not I want to see the mask stay on. Spidey has a real problem with this. A close girlfriend or something finding out is ok, but a train car of citizens seeing him maskless annoys me.

[Edward J Grug III]

Doc, this guy is basically Loki working his mischief on you. If you liked the movies leading up to it, you will LOVE The Avengers.

[ScottotD]

Doc, this guy is basically Loki working his mischief on you. If you liked the movies leading up to it, you will LOVE The Avengers.

I'm waiting for him to post a link to his Etsy 'home made superhero mask' shop

[gbeenie]

OK so I was RIGHT.

Cap kept taking off his mask, and even found a way to get it conveniently ripped off by the alien at the end.  Puh-leeze.

Hawkeye never even had a mask.  Weak.  Jeremy Renner's face totally sucks.

Iron Man existed for all of 1 minute on screen, the rest of the time it was Robert Downey Jr, Robert Downey Jr,  Robert Downey Jr,  Robert Downey Jr.

Thor didn't have his head wingy things as per usual.

Even Loki gets to take off his horns for like 90% of the movie WTF.

The Hulk's face look like Mark Ruffalo.  They even gave the Hulk Mark Ruffalo's messed up hair, which is wilder than the Hulk's normal hair LOL.

Black Widow no complaints.  Maybe she was a tad to voluptuous for the role but still, no complaints.  LOVE that chunky ass and legs she has. 

Even Hollywood would never be so brazen as to figure out a way to crowbar in a scene where Nick Fury takes off the eyepatch.


Hey Renner and Downey...shitcan the ego already.

This why I say always go the Superman route and cast stars as the supporting cast.  Things like Family members of the superheros,the love interests,the villains,and people who run the places like Shield but cast unknowns as the heroes.  If we are not going to see the heroes on screen what is the point of making the movie.  From the sound of it that may as well have called the movie The Super Model Justice Squad since we never see any of the heroes on screen.

Thanks for the warning.  I have to really think about if I am going to see this molvie.  I mean do I really want to pay $12 to see a superhero movie that doesn't have an Superheros in it

Just see it.  There are superheroes in it, whether they're in the masks or not.  In the end its about characters, and those characters are represented well.

Agreed.

Thirded. The Avengers is amaaaaazing.

[Bob]

Fourthedededed.     The Amazing was amazing.