I'm getting a little tired of all these recent movies.

[Doctor Who?]

I don't understand what is wrong with how Rifftrax is being run right now.

Mike and the gang like doing newer movies so they do newer movies and some old shorts.

Guests,Iriffs,and ICWXP can do older movies.

Also you are trying to tell them how to run things.  You asked them why they didn't do something they told you and you act like they told you to go to hell just because they are not doing everything the way you want.  that is not only called telling people how to run things it is also called being a jerk.

All they have said is that they have to do things one way to make money and that if it makes you mad this may not be the place for you.

Also the riffs are very funny right now.

[Doc Steve]

If it isn't working for you, you might have to start looking elsewhere.

Ah.  Gotta love the "If you're not a rabid Rifftrax fanboy get the hell out" attitude.

That wasn't my point at all.

My point is they've responded to the criticisms (more than you'd get from most companies too)

You've made the same arguements again.

They've responded again.

etc etc etc.

Sooner or later you guys have to realize that if the majority of people like things, and if the guys are giving very reasonable answers to things, maybe the problem isn't with them. Maybe the product isn't for you.

No one's saying they don't want you to like it. You're saying you don't.

No one's saying they don't want you to buy the product. You're saying you aren't.

They guys have said they are trying other methods, other ideas, and Rifftrax continues to evolve. If it's moved away from where you guys want it to be, you have to understand it's because that's what everyone else wants them to be. (At least at the moment)

They are a small company. The DO listen/read the comments here. They have made MANY changes based on what people want, and that's how they are where they are.

Lastly, they've said many times, there are more and different things on the horizon. If you don't dig what's happening now, maybe in a few months you will.

If not, what more can you except of them?

Fair enough.  

I still think you are downplaying a few valid points that have not been addressed, which are frustrating.

For example, I have mentioned Star Wars and E.T. multiple times.  Are those against economic policy too?  Just asking...

Another example, I can't return a Rifftrax.  I can't get mainstream reviews of them.  On the one hand, I am being told that this forum is in no way indicative of the overall customer base, but I should check the forum polls before buying.  Huh?  I'm sorry, but the forum polls are worthless.  Everything is an 8 or better, it seems.  That's incredibly helpful.  

Essentially, the internet isn't a very good medium for this sort of discussion.  Not only do you lose all shades of meaning, but it changes behavior.  No one in real life debates or argues with a dissatisfied customer.  That's not how it's done, because it is proven not to work.  The customer gets angry, and the situation rapidly deteriorates.  That's basically what happened here.  

I finally "get" it.  The profit margin is razor thin, not just thin.  I understand.  Someone had to spell that out for me, because as the owner of two small businesses, a lot of what was being said made no sense to me.  

[Edward J Grug III]

Cool, and fair enough.

For example, I have mentioned Star Wars and E.T. multiple times.  Are those against economic policy too?  Just asking...  

As for this, well, they haven't ruled them out, and you know they never reveal the names of (possible) up coming riffs (probably to avoid debacles like the Dirty Dancing one).

I also think ET especially would make an excellent rifftrax.

[Doc Steve]

I don't understand what is wrong with how Rifftrax is being run right now.

Mike and the gang like doing newer movies so they do newer movies and some old shorts.

Guests,Iriffs,and ICWXP can do older movies.

Also you are trying to tell them how to run things.  You asked them why they didn't do something they told you and you act like they told you to go to hell just because they are not doing everything the way you want.  that is not only called telling people how to run things it is also called being a jerk.

All they have said is that they have to do things one way to make money and that if it makes you mad this may not be the place for you.

Also the riffs are very funny right now.

It is poor customer service to "explain away" a complaint.  Any textbook will tell you that.  

The claim is that they have to do newer movies for economic reasons, not that they like doing them better.  I wouldn't bother to debate taste with someone.  When someone makes an economic argument that makes no sense at all, it is within the boundaries to discuss.  Once I was made aware of the facts that I wanted to know, you will notice that I apologized.  

Thanks for the slap on the hand.  

[Doctor Who?]

You can't return a Rifftrax because apart from them putting spyware on your computer there is no way for them to know that you deleted the track and even then you can make a copy!

Maybe you should learn something about the product before complaining.

You can't get your money back for a movie you rent from redbox either so why don't you go spam them for a while.

Also they haven't stoped anyone from reviewing Rifftrax why don't you post some bad reviews in the review section or start your own rifftrax review website?!  Also there are always a bunch of previews of the new riffs and they have been known to send free riffs to first timer they are going above and beyond the call already.

Also they have never said that they would never do another older movie they just said that it's not going to happen today.

Also you can only fix complaints that are about something being broken,nothing is broken here they just choose movies you don't like!

They explained why they are not doing things your way and that is all they can do.

People with your taste are out numbered 8 to 2 what are they supposed to do.

Also in the last month or so they released a rifftrax of Alien that is just as old as Star Wars and ET,so they are in fact releasing old movies it's just that they don't do one every week.

You remind me of the dumbasses we get in Wal Mart trying to return half eaten meat or a gold fish a month after they got them.

I am going to tell you what my manager has to tell them,sir there is nothing we can do for you now please move on or leave.

You are the dumbest person i have ever talked to on the internet.

NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY RIFFTRAX IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM WHY ARE YOU HERE!

[Invisible NanoGhost]

This thread proves to me that reading and reading comprehension are two totally different things.

My entire point has been: MOST OF THE RIFFTRAX RELEASED IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS ARE NOT FUNNY.  I thought I had made that abundantly clear. 

Let me make a clear response then.  Of the official rifftrax I have recently bought:

• Kingdom of the Crystal Skull -- It's funny enough.  I'm happy with the purchase.  Kinda sad to see how lame a movie it was, but I have no regrets picking it up.  This is a movie I had not seen in the theaters, and which my sister had given a pretty lukewarm recommendation for, so I wasn't expecting it to be a great movie.
  
• The Happening -- Absolutely Hysterical.  I love it.  The movie is watchable by itself (if you turn your brain off soon enough), and a riot to watch with the rifftrax.  "The Wind" as the cheapest special-effect-monster ever to appear in a movie!
  
• Ironman -- I knew I was going to buy the DVD anyway, because I saw the movie when it was released to theaters, and I liked the movie.  So I bought the rifftrax too.  I do like the rifftrax, but realistically I would have been happy with it unless the rifftrax really sucked, because I was buying the DVD anyway.  So, the rifftrax only had to be good enough to justify the cost of the rifftrax itself, and didn't need to be good enough to justify the cost of getting the DVD (however you might get the DVD).
  
• The Day After Tomorrow -- Hysterical.  I missed this movie when it came out because every review I saw of it made it sound stupid to me.  With the rifftrax I was willing to buy the DVD (...used, from amazon), and now I can say with certainty that the movie is insanely stupid -- and yet I can enjoy watching it with the rifftrax.  Definitely a worthwhile purchase for me.
  
• All three spidermen -- Enjoyed all movies, given the rifftrax.  Probably would have regretted buying the last two movies by themselves if it wasn't for the rifftrax to go with them.
  
• Both Fantastic Four -- Enjoyed all movies, given the rifftrax.  Probably would have enjoyed them without the rifftrax too.
  
• DareDevil -- The movie is entertaining enough if watched with the rifftrax.  It's a seriously-awful movie without it.
  
• Momento -- A movie I would not have bought without the rifftrax, just because I hadn't heard much about it.  Movie is entertaining enough to watch by itself, and funnier with the rifftrax.  I'm happy with that purchase.  This is a movie where I can understand why some people might hate it, but actually I thought it was an interesting movie (even without the rifftrax).  So this is an example where rifftrax got me to buy a DVD where I liked the movie itself, even without the riffing.
  
• Sixth sense -- Actually this is a movie that I enjoy (by itself) a lot.  I bought the DVD a year or two after the movie came out, and for me, M.Night did a perfect job of pacing the surprise ending.  I bought the rifftrax mainly because I already had the DVD, but I didn't really need to have the movie "made funny".
  
• X-Files - Fight the Future -- Somehow I never heard of this movie, but my sister said she really liked it when I asked her about it.  Our tastes are different enough that I wasn't going to buy it just on her recommendation, but with a rifftrax it seemed worth a try.  Fine movie with the rifftrax, I would have hated myself for buying the DVD (used!) if it wasn't for the rifftrax.
  
• Transformers -- Sucked completely.  This is a movie I had avoided, and I bought the DVD (used!) because I thought it might be fun with the rifftrax.  I consider this a waste of time and money.  I should have stayed with my initial impression of the movie, and continued to avoid it.
  

Your problem isn't with evil Mike+Kevin+Bill, your problem is with customers like me.  I do understand what you're saying, because I do think the movies chosen are a little too "samey".  However, if I pick rifftrax for movies where I think I can stand the movie, I end up pretty happy with most of the rifftrax that I bought.  And you can not avoid the fact that a rifftrax for a big-selling movie is an "easier sell" than a rifftrax for a movie that people don't already have.  So far I've had a lot more hits than misses.

I would add that I think the shorts have been more misses than hits.  Some of them are really great, but most of them are merely "amusing".  I think I've bought most (if not all) of the shorts which have been done this year, and I'm thinking that maybe I have to be more selective there.

FWIW, I have also picked up all the Cinematic Titanic releases, and I do like those too.  They're still busy just trying to get things going though, so it's a little too soon to say how well that series will work out.  But I'm quite comfortable in saying that the best of Rifftrax is at least as good as the best of anything done in the history of MST3k writers.  That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.  And if the profit they make off of me is annoying to you, well, I'm not going to stop having my own good time just to please your sense of what I should enjoy.

[Edward J Grug III]

I'll all fairness, he's talked his point through, said sorry in light of the facts and backed off.

[Invisible NanoGhost]

I'll all fairness, he's talked his point through, said sorry in light of the facts and backed off.

Well, if the above was meant for me, I just thought it was important to comment on that one part of his argument.  He kept saying "the latest rifftrax are not funny", and it seemed worthwhile for some other customer to provide an explicit response to that specific point.  I'd like to think that everyone buys rifftrax that they find funny, but apparently he's had bad luck.  And I can understand him deciding to stop buying if he's had bad luck.  Hopefully the flood of iRiff's will provide some of the variety that he's looking for.  And if not, he can always team up with a few others with similar wishes, and pick their own favorite movies to riff!       

I also wanted to write it up in detail, to show that my own reaction to each of these rifftrax (and each of the movies) was different.  There must be some variety there, or I'd like them all "about the same amount" and for "about the same reasons".  But that's not true.

[Edward J Grug III]

I'll all fairness, he's talked his point through, said sorry in light of the facts and backed off.

Well, if the above was meant for me...

It wasn't actually, you posted while I was writing my post, and I didn't bother to make it specify. Sorry for the confusion. 

[James of LinHood]

Maybe you should learn something about the product before complaining.

Seriously, when you talk like this it doesn't help the conversation.  Things seem to be winding down in this thread and comments like this only tend to add fuel to the fire.  Try using some tact in the future please.

Also you are trying to tell them how to run things.  You asked them why they didn't do something they told you and you act like they told you to go to hell just because they are not doing everything the way you want.  that is not only called telling people how to run things it is also called being a jerk.

Wrong.  Asking questions and discussing the issue is not "telling them" how to do anything.  We're just having a discussion.  At least, that's how I see it.  I can't speak for Doc Steve but I believe he feels the same way.  If debating this issue is called being a jerk then there is really something wrong here.  And not with me.

Anyway, I believe that everybody's said everything that's needed to be said.  If they say that they're making efforts to do older flicks once and awhile we'll just have to wait and see if it's true.  Just don't expect me to drop this subject if Rifftrax doesn't deliver on that.

After all, it's just my opinion and I believe that I'm entitled to it.  And this is a discussion board, correct?   I'm allowed to have my own viewpoints, right?

In the end my opinions hurt no one.  I'm a nobody.  torgos gets to work with some of the funniest guys on the planet everyday.  He needs to remember that and let my opinions roll off of his back once in awhile.

[bratpop]

It has been made abundantly clear to me that my opinion must not count.

Of course your opinion counts. It counts as an insignificant minority, and is duly being ignored. It's called majority rule.

I guess I'll have to wait in time-out until more people agree with me.

That's exactly right. Welcome to how the entire world works.

If you ever decide to be an activist, feel free to try and persuade people that it is in their best interest to have the exact same opinion as you, and convince them that they aren't really enjoying something. That's called propaganda, and it works wonders for a cause.

The basic message I got was: take it or leave it.

Uh, yeah. It's called freedom. I don't recall the Constitution saying anything about the right to demand a higher quality of subjective consumer products. Do you also write to Hollywood and complain that they don't care if you think they should make better movies? There is no quality guarantee.

Another example, I can't return a Rifftrax.

Did you just get off the boat from Russia? You can't get your money back for any form of entertainment you paid for and didn't like. I know that really really sucks. It's why I'm stuck with a Hives album that isn't good. I bought it mistaking one song title for another, only to find it has no good songs on it. Well boo hoo, I don't blame the Hives for it.

No one in real life debates or argues with a dissatisfied customer.

Oh really? Go buy a movie from Walmart and try to return it because you thought it sucked. See if they agree with you and give you your money back.

I can't get mainstream reviews of them.

This is your only valid point. But the fact is, Rifftrax is not a mainstream product, or one with a wide enough audience to warrant any major publications, sites, or reviewers covering it. That should change someday, but there isn't a switch that can just be turned on. I'm sure Rifftrax would love to call up Entertainment Weekly or the New York Times and say, "Hey, review this," but it's hardly their choice. If this was Amazon, you'd get plenty of people saying riffs sucked, because they go to Amazon for other reasons than one product. But I doubt a deal with Amazon would be lucrative. So you just get fanboys saying every riff is awesome.

Rifftrax never mentions that VHS works with Rifftrax

That's because they DON'T work. They only MIGHT work. Their FAQ indeed says they can't guarantee a riff will work with a VHS tape. They can't afford to research every VHS version ever released, and your player might play slow or fast. They can only guarantee the widely available DVD they used to make the track. Funny, you don't applaud this one guarantee that they actually do give you.

[mrbasehart]

Doc Steve, if you're looking for fair reviews of the Rifftrax releases, you could do a lot worse than check out gammer's http://www.rifftraxfan.com/ 

[TheUnabeefer]

"Ask and ye shall receive."  If no one asks or speaks up, how is a business supposed to guage demand?  If you have to write macros to expunge all references to Dune and Red Dawn, then it's pretty clear to me the demand exists.  I have purchased over half of the Rifftrax now.  When am I allowed to make suggestions or complaints, in your opinion? 

I think it is too easy to mistake "demand" for "repetition."  Which is what you have at least in the case of THAT MOVIE RVR KEEPS MENTIONING.

I also think that complaints about us not doing older movies may just be like the complaint I addressed in the thread I linked to that we don't bake and sell delicious cookies.  While it might be nice (and tasty), it just isn't what we do.  (except the times in the past when we have and the times in the future that we will as well.) 

I have not been around long enough to know the history of the macro.  I'll accept that explanation. 

Have you ever seen A Hard Day's Night?  There is a scene in which George stumbles into an advertising office pushing lines of clothing for teenagers.  George decalres the shirts to be "grotty" (grotesque) and claims that people only watch their spokesmodel in order to ridicule her.  The ad execs then spend a few moments arguing over whether or not George represents "the new trend," or whether he is just a "troublemaker."  (The joke is that they are so square that they don't even recognize a Beatle.) 

I realize that you're not branding me a "troublemaker," but here's another story...

Once upon a time, there was a company that baked delicious cookies (and specialty breads).  They were more or less successful for ten years, then the business closed, for whatever reason.  Several years later, half of the old staff go back into business making packaged crackers and occasionally, delicious cookies.   This second company decides to phase out the delicious cookies and concentrate on crackers.  Right about this time, the remainder of the staff from the first company form a third company.  What are they selling?  You guessed it, delicious cookies.  Assuming that the former customers of the initial company are not made of money, what will happen?


P.S.  I will refrain from further comment until I finish reading the thread to which you refer.  (It's only fair, I suppose.) 

That's my favourite scene in Hard Days Night.  "Sometimes we watch her commercials and turn down the volume just to make her say funny things."  (the premier of riffing)

And I am SO f-ing sick of the damn "tasty cooky/cake" analogy.  Let's find a new one to wear into the ground.

  Now that the catalog is large enough, I doubt you will ever see anyone seriously recommend The Bourne Identity Rifftrax. 

Says you.     I loved the Bourne Identity trax and highly recommend it with no hesitation.

I, too, recommend the Bourne riff as being one of my favourites.  I have forced many-a-people to watch it, and every one of them loved it.

...and just to throw my hat in...  I get EVERY Rifftrak there is (aside from iRiffs so far, I'll get into those soon, I am sure), and either of those two movies that are taboo to mention, I would VERY gladly pay for.  Especially Doone.  I can't say I have ever seen  Redd Don, but from all I have heard, I am waiting for the riff before I bother.

...but I would also accept them as a part of the "Presents" line...  My thoughts are, do one of them, see how it sells, and tell the beggers that if it sells well enough, then maybe you'll consider doing the other.  **shrug**  Couldn't hurt.  I know more people willing to watch Doone than The Happening.

[Doc Steve]

This is what drives me crazy about internet forums.

A critical piece of information was being held back.  That information was "Rifftrax lost money for a long time, and our decisions are based on that reality."  That's a far cry from, "we can't afford to do Dune."

After I received that information, I apologized and backed down.  Once the coast was clear, here comes the carrion birds to pick at the corpse. 

FWIW, I don't expect to be able to return DVDs to Wal-mart if they fail to meet my expectations.  That's why I buy from a local store, who will work with me on those issues.  (Yes, Virginina, you can return DVDs to some stores.  It's called great customer service.)  The big difference is that if I buy a mainstream DVD release, and I don't like it, then I have only myself to blame.  Why?  There are plenty of mainstream reviews. 

It's clear to me that the vast majority of people here seem to think all of the Rifftrax releases are all equally funny.  Really?  Do you really think that?  I ask because that is the consistent impression I am receiving from this forum.  If that is true, then the "collective opinion" here is worthless to me.  That doesn't make you wrong or me right (or vice versa). 

FWIW, the majority is often wrong.  That's why the Constitution provided for the Supreme Court.  One of its major functions is to be counter-majoritarian when the majority wants an unconstitutional law.  If being in the majority equates with correctness, then obviously the National Socialist Party was the right thing for Germany in 1936.  See my point?

Do I think that the uber-fan is as wrong-headed as a Nazi?  Of course not.  I just think that the uber-fan's opinion is not nearly critical enough to be of any assistance to me. 

On the VHS issue, I was merely trying to be helpful.  I have had zero problems with multiple VHS tapes on multiple players.  I guess I was just lucky. 

mr. basehart, thanks for the tip. 

I appreciate your input NanoRiffite, because it's much more helpful than just giving every release 8-10 stars. 

[Edward J Grug III]

It's clear to me that the vast majority of people here seem to think all of the Rifftrax releases are all equally funny.  Really?  Do you really think that? 

I actually don't.

But I do know I'm not in the majority here either,

For example, I am crazy for the Matthew Elliot riffs. These are my favourite two traxes in a long time. I also really enjoyed Dirty Dancing.

Of the Kevin and Bill (Or Bill and Mary Jo) so far the only one I've really enjoyed is Spider-Man 2 (I haven't watched the day after tomorrow yet)

But, I know I am in the minority there.

Nothing is equally funny in every episode/installment etc

MST3K had good, bad, great, mediocre episodes.