Re-Write the Prequels

[Doctor Who?]

Just my thoughts on the preqs....

1. it was total bullshit to have anakin's mother left as a slave. You'd think after saving naboo someone there could have taken some petty cash from the palace and freed her, but annakin apparently never asked anyone to go free his mother.

2. Maybe after her death, annakin could have asked himself what he thought of a republic that allowed slavery to exist in it. That might have had something to do with his feelings towards the republic. Maybe he could have even asked padme, with her greater political knowledge,  why the republic tolerated slavery, and gotten an answer that was similar to why america tolerated it in it's first century, it was a political compromise made to get the republic founded.

3. I'd have liked to see palpatine be responsible for padme's death, while making it look like the jedi were behind it, THAT ALONE would have made skywalker's turn to the dark side look more believable.

4. I'd have had a lot more jar jar binks in it.

5. I'd have at least explained the "celibate jedi" thing as being based on the force being hereditary, and the founders of the republic not wanting the jedi to breed a hereditary "jedi class" that would become a problem for a free society. (This could have tied in to point 3 above.) "Oh, Annakin, the jedi killed padme to prevent you passing on your gifts, it's a political compromise made at the foundation of the republic because it was feared the jedi, if allowed to breed, would have created a permanent jedi caste that would have seized power from the politicians! That's why jedi are not allowed to have families! We could change that, and punish the jedi if you joined me. The sith don't believe in not passing their gifts on to a new generation..."

That sounds pretty good right there.

Also i would have the main battle of the Clone wars take place on Alderian so that Lia's message in the first movie make sense.

As the movies stand now we have all of One scene on the planet and Kono-Bi isn't even in it!

[Fortis]

dang it guys...I wish I would have seen this before I started writing.

Well I'm just going to say it...I've been rewriting the prequel trilogy. I've been going about it differently than you guys though. Instead of a total rewrite, I"m going through the prequels, and basically...just taking it one step further.

If you go through the prequels, you can tell George Lucas didn't elaborate on any of his ideas, if he had a cool idea, it was in the movie. This is bad because most writers ideas, when they first start flowing, are cliche...or unconsciously stolen from something else.

So I'm taking his ideas, and taking them down the road, making them not cliche. I'm going to leave the basic story the same...with some drastic changes, trust me. I'm totally changing the jedi order (down with jedi robes!)...the government is being changed, and the way that Palpatine takes power will also change.

I'm cutting tons of needless characters, subplots, and royally stupid and/or cliche character developments.

I'm still not sure, but I think we are going to see some more races and aliens that we see in the original trilogy. I also decided from the get go that I will be using my essay on how Anakin's character should have been (http://foreverlost-howitshouldbe.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-darth-vader-was-almost-greatest.html) as a basis for Anakin...(I'll also be making some changes to Padme's character, because the Anakin and the Padme in the movies were way wrong for each other...I'm going to make an actual good love story that is believable, and their characters will complement each other)

...I'll probably only be able to get a rough but detailed outline, with a few passages of ideas before I leave in a couple weeks...I'm looking forward to what you guys come up with though.

[Junkyard]

Cool. Put forth any ideas you have for the re-imagined prequels if you have them, though. You inspired the thread, really.

Meanwhile, yeah, keep Padme Queen of Naboo, but have her leading her planet against the Clone Invasion. (I'd even be cool with there being two races, Human and Gungan, just as long as they're not played as racist comedy relief.) When Obi Wan and Anakin, (or perhaps just Anakin, sinse the Jedi would be spread so thin trying to hold back a tide of invasions,) come to the planet, Anakin meets Padme while consulting with her. Getting rid of the celibacy thing, they could have some actual chemistry without all the "I'm in agony" shit. Let it grow from attraction to respect to love.
Meanwhile, give Padme a bit of an additude and sense of humor, similar but not identical to Leia. Strong leader, agressive fighter.
Again, just my take.

As for the Palpatine:
He starts off as a Senator who, through bravery and incredible forsight, manages to gain several victories against the clone army, and is thus elected to replace one of the 12 "Princes" (I'm liking that name,) who died in one of the many conflicts. In reality, of course, Palpatine was so sucsessful because he controlled the armies, and the fallen Prince was set up.
From there he pushes through various restrictions and freedoms that make it easier for him to take over with the help of the outside armies, much like in the prequels, but without the need for overarching stupidity from all sides. Involving less people means he just needs to shield HIS mind from the Jedi.
Does that work, you think?

ps- If Padme is also one of the 12, that has some potential story links.

[Tron]

1. it was total bullshit to have anakin's mother left as a slave. You'd think after saving naboo someone there could have taken some petty cash from the palace and freed her, but annakin apparently never asked anyone to go free his mother.

Which is why she has to die in the first film (Episode I : The Mulligan) perhaps on the brink of liberty.

2. Maybe after her death, annakin could have asked himself what he thought of a republic that allowed slavery to exist in it. That might have had something to do with his feelings towards the republic. Maybe he could have even asked padme, with her greater political knowledge,  why the republic tolerated slavery, and gotten an answer that was similar to why america tolerated it in it's first century, it was a political compromise made to get the republic founded.

Now that's a good plot point and a fair explanation of it. And This is why I lean towards her being the child of a PotR (maybe the honorific here is Darth, is the status of that as a sith term actually in the OT or is it EU that was just  canonized in the PT?).

3. I'd have liked to see palpatine be responsible for padme's death, while making it look like the jedi were behind it, THAT ALONE would have made skywalker's turn to the dark side look more believable.

Yep Vader's fall is due to pride and/or personal reasons so i could see something like that.

4. I'd have had a lot more jar jar binks in it.

5. I'd have at least explained the "celibate jedi" thing as being based on the force being hereditary, and the founders of the republic not wanting the jedi to breed a hereditary "jedi class" that would become a problem for a free society. (This could have tied in to point 3 above.) "Oh, Annakin, the jedi killed padme to prevent you passing on your gifts, it's a political compromise made at the foundation of the republic because it was feared the jedi, if allowed to breed, would have created a permanent jedi caste that would have seized power from the politicians! That's why jedi are not allowed to have families! We could change that, and punish the jedi if you joined me. The sith don't believe in not passing their gifts on to a new generation..."

Something along those lines but maybe not exactly cause you know I'm not keen at all on the Celibacy thing.

But basically good discussion points

Well, the thing is that the celibate issue was just glossed over, and never really explained. Explaining it as being based on fear that if the jedi bred it would create this "super force using race" that would dominate the galaxy, so out of fear of this happened politicians insisted that the jedi not breed, and the jedi agreed.

Given that force aptitude was apparently hereditary  there may have been some basis for this, and one could imagine palpy murdering padme then telling annakin, in his best sympathetic voice "The jedi feared your children, annakin, and killed padme to prevent their birth. I'm so sorry, but the republic is based on fear and making those with special gifts like you unable to share them with the next generation. The sith will change this, annakin. Join me."

[daltysmilth]

I'd been thinking for a long time about how I would remake the prequels.  Here's how I'd do it:

First off, I'd write a fairly long and elaborate history of the Republic and the Jedi from their very beginning, incorporating events from the Knights Of The Old Republic games and other EU things, until I got to the prequels.  To sum up my history, The Republic started out as a kingdom on the planet Coruscant, and the Jedi were the protectors of the kingdom.  The Coruscant developed interstellar space travel, and colonized other worlds, such as Corellia and Alderaan.  Then sometime later, the KOTOR games happen.  Then after that, we get to the prequels.

As for the prequels, I would actually change very little, story-wise.  Most of what I would change would be the characters and dialogue, and I would add in more elements from the Expanded Universe.  Jar-Jar, for instance, would go from being an annoying, unfunny copy of Roger Rabbit into a character who was part of a diplomatic envoy being sent from the Gungans to the Naboo.  Unfortunately, the rest of his party was killed by the battle droids, and he is reluctant to return home, because according to the laws of his people, he must be punished for failing to protect his superiors. 

Anakin would be about 12 or 13 years old when Qui-Gon found him, and much less kid-like than in the actual prequels.  And he would still live in his mother, who would survive until the second movie, although her death would be much more meaningful.  See, my idea is that somehow the Jedi know Shmi is in life-threatening danger, perhaps being kidnapped by the separatists, but they refuse to get involved or allow Anakin to get involved.  Then when she ends up dead, it's a much clearer turning point for Anakin, because he blames the Jedi for her death.  But he still has loyalty to Obi-Wan, because Obi-Wan tried his hardest to convince the Council to act.  Still, once he's rescued Obi-Wan, he decides to resign from the Jedi and marry Padme. 

Then in the third movie, Obi-Wan come to Tattoine to find Anakin and Padme living with his stepbrother and his wife, Owen and Beru Lars.  Anakin is making a living as a navigator on a spice freighter.  Not as thrilling as the life of a Jedi, but a peaceful existence.  Obi-Wan begs Anakin to return to the Jedi order, the Clone Wars are going badly, and they need as many Jedi as they can get.  They coucil is even offering full amnesty for any Jedi who were expelled from or quit the order by disobeying the tenets of the Book of Whills (which is like the Jedi Bible).  Anakin, who's tried not to get involved, has also had trouble keeping out of the War completely.  And Owen thinks he shouldn't get involved, especially since Padme is pregnant with twins.  But finally Anakin relents, largely due to the fact that he's learned his friend Chancellor Palpatine has been kidnapped.  Eventually, after having rescued him, Anakin learns that Palpatine is the Dark Lord Of The Sith, and presents this information to Mace Windu, and the subsequent events unfold much as they did in the film, up until the point where Anakin helps Palpatine kill Windu.  Then there's a fairly long scene where Palpatine convinces Anakin that he has no choice but to become his apprentice.  Let me emphasize the word LONG.  It wouldn't be like in the movie where Palpatine's like "Well, you just killed a guy.  Wanna be my apprentice?" and Anakin's like, "NO!  NEVER!  ... well, okay."  It would take some convincing to make Anakin abandon everything he stood for.  Finally, Padme would live, but the movie, instead of showing Anakin becoming the Darth Vader from the original trilogy, would leave Anakin's fate a little more ambiguous.  (So that hopefully anyone watching the movies in chronological order and hadn't seen the original trilogy would still be surprised at Vader's revalation that he's Luke's father in ESB.  I might also create another character who's named Darth Vader who is Obi Wan's apprentice, whose fate is also left somewhat ambiguous at the end of the film.) 

One more thing, I would make it so Count Dooku was secretly working against Palpatine the whole time, and that he was, in fact, trying to destroy the Sith.  And I would make it obvious that the separatists would eventually become the Rebel Alliance.

[Raven]

I'm not even gonna pretend that I know half of the stuff that's being discussed in great detail.  I've only watched the prequels twice.  Once for each movie in the theater and then the riffed version.  I absolutely hate the fact that the first 3 ruin all the best stuff from episodes 4-6. 

So that being said-  I don't care what happens for episodes 1 thru 3, although it sounds like you all have great ideas.  My main concern is for the transition from 3 to 4. 

I don't think Darth Vader would have let his kids grow up being raised by others if it was really up to him.  Whatever happened to Anakin to put him in the suit should take a long time to get him mobile again- not "hey you got chopped to shit, here's a suit with a respirator, and you have twins to ignore for the next 16 years, how bout a glass of tea."

Maybe have Anakin start to turn to the dark side early in the pregnancy (before they know there are twins).  Padame starts to notice and hides the fact that there are twins and arranges to have Leia sent away at birth.  (Vader never seemed to give a shit about Leia in the beginnings of the original trilogy anyway).  They shouldn't even mention Leia's name. 

You could even have Anakin begin to raise Luke before whatever happens, happens and Obi Wan could still be the one who takes Luke to his uncles.   

In order to preserve the whole Anakin is Darth Vader surprise for the original trilogy,  I'd do like Tripe said and have an additional character named Darth Vader be instrumental in turning Anakin to the dark side.  It could work like the old princess bride thing,  where Anakin takes on the name of his predecessor  (Darth Vader/Dread Pirate Roberts).   This could certainly happen upon waking from the coma in the suit.  Hell, have both Anakin and the new Darth Vader both suffer defeat in the same battle and only have one of them survive but they could be so mangled you (the viewer) couldn't tell which one it was.  Maybe have whoever picks up the beat to shit corpse just assume it's Darth Vader and call him that, but have Anakin too out of it to correct him, if you didn't want to make the name change intentional.  Either way you could show the same repair job the way the third movie did but leave the story in tact that Vader "killed" Luke's father.

Just my thoughts. 

[Tripe]

In order to preserve the whole Anakin is Darth Vader surprise for the original trilogy,  I'd do like Tripe said and have an additional character named Darth Vader be instrumental in turning Anakin to the dark side.  It could work like the old princess bride thing,  where Anakin takes on the name of his predecessor  (Darth Vader/Dread Pirate Roberts).   This could certainly happen upon waking from the coma in the suit.  Hell, have both Anakin and the new Darth Vader both suffer defeat in the same battle and only have one of them survive but they could be so mangled you (the viewer) couldn't tell which one it was.  Maybe have whoever picks up the beat to shit corpse just assume it's Darth Vader and call him that, but have Anakin too out of it to correct him, if you didn't want to make the name change intentional.  Either way you could show the same repair job the way the third movie did but leave the story in tact that Vader "killed" Luke's father.

Just my thoughts. 

Actually that wasn't what I was saying but it's better than my suggestion That was Dalty's suggestion and it has great potential. I also like the attempt to have a quiet life because it's in accordance to Campbell's monomyth.  Ok ahead of time so I don't forget, I think that, the "civilian life" bit should be where we find Anakin at the beginning of the third movie.

I like that.

I also like the arc for Palpatine.

I could be on board with Padme being one of the PotR.

As for the twins I'm thinking Anakin should think his wife dead rather than her actually be so (she should die between 3 and 4 like Leia said). I'm thinking that Vader (Anakin) should be in the suit for about the last half of the third episode.

Oh and a minor thing but can we please do away with the bathrobes for the Jedi?

Alright so I think we shouldhave a running tally of what we've agreed on for the Mulligan Trilogy, maybe if you could modify your first post to include the plot points and the like Junkyard

[Junkyard]

Well, first put down what we've got so far if you don't mind, then I'll post it at the begining. It'll save some editing.

Meanwhile, I need to watch the old trilogy again.

[Tripe]

Actually I'm not sure what the details are thus far but I think something like this:

The Republic is akin to the HRE, it has a senate but ultimate authority rests in a small group of Princes of the Republic.

The Jedi are a group of spiritual warriors who lead rather itinerant lives maintaining order throughout the republic and are both respected (and  possibly resented) but the general populace for their moral code and supernatural (not mitochondrial derived) powers.

One of the Jedi, Obi-Wan Kenobi, discovers on a planet that permits slavery, a burgeoning rebelion, one of the rebels is a young man (let's say he's 15) by the name of Anakin Skywalker. Skywalker has broken out of his state as a slave and exhibits some natural though unfocused or trained Force ability and powers. Skywalker also has the burden of knowing his mother still lives in slavery.

Kenobio begins to train Anakin and helps with the rebelion, the rebels win a victory only for Anakin to learn that his mother has died just as liberation was at hand.

In the Republic's senate, the up and comming Senator Palpatine leads a campaign against the PotR in whose sector the slave planet was, leading to the prince being ousted from his postion, opening the way for Palpy to fill the vacancy.

Somewhere along the line Anakin is going to meet Padme but I'm not sure if we've agreed to her role, is she a PotR?

I think that sounds about right yes?.

[Junkyard]

Okay, edited the first post.

As for the specific story, let's approch this in pieces- How about we start at the introduction to Kenobi, and end with Anakin's bittersweet victory?

Events as I see them-
Kenobi talks with Yoda (perhaps on Dagoba,) about where he might be needed, and Yoda reccomends he go to a planet trying to struggle out of slavery. (What should the planet be called? I'm not crazy about Tatooine being the planet, simply because Darth would think to look there too easily.)
Kenobi arrives, and after some fighting, finds himself overwhelmed. He is saved at the lest minute by Anakin, who's skills in battle seem a little supernatural. K goes unconcious.
K wakes up, to Anakin and the rebellion leaders rather annoyed at his meddling in delicate affairs. Nevertheless, they accept his help, and he makes possible some key victories. K and A talk, and the subject of A's potential is approched. A is willing to have K teach him to focus his powers, only so far as they'll help him in the situation, not willing to give up his hope for a peacful life to the Jedi way.
The final battle is faught and won, but as A, K, and everybody is celebrating, A finds out his mother/parents were killed towards the end.
A and K linger for a while in the rebuilding, and A asks if K is still willing to train him as a Jedi. K agrees, and they head off to meet Yoda, and start his training.

Thoughts?

[Tripe]

Thoughts?

Damn near perfect, and why? Because it actually pays attention to Campbell which would make a change and be a reversion back to the stated inspiration of the OT.

OK now to specifics:

Kenobi talks with Yoda (perhaps on Dagoba,) about where he might be needed, and Yoda reccomends he go to a planet trying to struggle out of slavery. (What should the planet be called? I'm not crazy about Tatooine being the planet, simply because Darth would think to look there too easily.)

Well here's a list we could pick one, I always mostly liked the names of the planets in the star wars universe.

I'd be fond of Had Abbadon myself, it's suitably demonic sounding.

Incidentally this will make for an interesting opening scroll. When we have things down the way we like them we should at least write the opening scrolls

Anyway back to the comments:

Kenobi arrives, and after some fighting, finds himself overwhelmed. He is saved at the lest minute by Anakin, who's skills in battle seem a little supernatural. K goes unconscious.
K wakes up, to Anakin and the rebellion leaders rather annoyed at his meddling in delicate affairs. Nevertheless, they accept his help, and he makes possible some key victories. K and A talk, and the subject of A's potential is approached. A is willing to have K teach him to focus his powers, only so far as they'll help him in the situation, not willing to give up his hope for a peaceful life to the Jedi way.

There's the call to adventure and rejection of the call.

The final battle is fought and won, but as A, K, and everybody is celebrating, A finds out his mother/parents were killed towards the end.

Their master deciding to destroy property so to speak.

A and K linger for a while in the rebuilding, and A asks if K is still willing to train him as a Jedi. K agrees, and they head off to meet Yoda, and start his training.

Good, The Crossing of the First Threshold

I need to go reread The Hero with a Thousand Faces

[Junkyard]

Cool. Seems like a good time to do a 5 year time skip? Or is there something that shoudl happen/be established before the Clone War?

[Tripe]

Can't think of anything really, unless we want to introdue a seemingly benign use of clones in the republic that will, by the time of episode two, have soured.

This is why face dancers come to mind when I think about the clones; something with supposedly innocuous perpose being able to fade into the background and never be seen as a threat until it's too late.

Also Anakin might feel some sympathy to the clones as they, like he, existed in a type of slavery. Maybe, not sure about that one. 

But in general I think that's a good arc for the first episode. It's not too busy and it potentially has the scope of myth.

[Junkyard]

I'm not sure about the invasive clone idea, though it has a lot of potential for complex interactions. As I picture them, they're a completely forign invasion that everyone can agree to oppose, thus making them vounerable to mob mentality.

Would you mind explaining the face dancers a little bit?

[Tripe]

Face dancers in Herbert's Dune books are chameleons grown in tanks (so clones really).

They can be entertainers and jesters, they can also be assassins and replacements for political rivals.

Oh also I found on Uncle Wiki the outline of the monomyth and as I see it the sections would fit across the trilogy a bit like this:

Episode I:

The Call to Adventure
The adventure begins with the hero receiving a call to action, such as a threat to the peace of the community, or the hero simply falls into or blunders into it. The call is often announced to the hero by another character who acts as a "herald". The herald, often represented as dark or terrifying and judged evil by the world, may call the character to adventure simply by the crisis of his appearance.
Refusal of the Call
In some stories, the hero initially refuses the call to adventure. When this happens, the hero may suffer somehow, and may eventually choose to answer, or may continue to decline the call.
Supernatural Aid
After the hero has accepted the call, he encounters a protective figure (often elderly) who provides special tools and advice for the adventure ahead, such as an amulet or a weapon.
The Crossing of the First Threshold
The hero must cross the threshold between the world he is familiar with and that which he is not. Often this involves facing a "threshold guardian", an entity that works to keep all within the protective confines of the world but must be encountered in order to enter the new zone of experience.

Episode II

The Belly of the Whale
The hero, rather than passing a threshold, passes into the new zone by means of rebirth. Appearing to have died by being swallowed or having their flesh scattered, the hero is transformed and becomes ready for the adventure ahead.
The Road of Trials
Once past the threshold, the hero encounters a dream landscape of ambiguous and fluid forms. The hero is challenged to survive a succession of obstacles and, in so doing, amplifies his consciousness. The hero is helped covertly by the supernatural helper or may discover a benign power supporting him in his passage.
The Meeting with the Goddess
The ultimate trial is often represented as a marriage between the hero and a queenlike, or mother-like figure. This represents the hero's mastery of life (represented by the feminine) as well as the totality of what can be known. When the hero is female, this becomes a male figure.
Woman as the Temptress
His awareness expanded, the hero may fixate on the disunity between truth and his subjective outlook, inherently tainted by the flesh. This is often represented with revulsion or rejection of a female figure.
Atonement with the Father
The hero reconciles the tyrant and merciful aspects of the father-like authority figure to understand himself as well as this figure.
Apotheosis
The hero's ego is disintegrated in a breakthrough expansion of consciousness. Quite frequently the hero's idea of reality is changed; the hero may find an ability to do new things or to see a larger point of view, allowing the hero to sacrifice himself.
The Ultimate Boon
The hero is now ready to obtain that which he has set out, an item or new awareness that, once he returns, will benefit the society that he has left.

Episode III

Refusal of the Return
Having found bliss and enlightenment in the other world, the hero may not want to return to the ordinary world to bestow the boon onto his fellow man.
The Magic Flight
When the boon's acquisition (or the hero's return to the world) comes against opposition, a chase or pursuit may ensue before the hero returns.
Rescue from Without
The hero may need to be rescued by forces from the ordinary world. This may be because the hero has refused to return or because he is successfully blocked from returning with the boon. The hero loses his ego.
The Crossing of the Return Threshold
The hero returns to the world of common day and must accept it as real.
Master of the Two Worlds
Because of the boon or due to his experience, the hero may now perceive both the divine and human worlds.
Freedom to Live
The hero bestows the boon to his fellow man.

Now it's not a perfect match obviously, but I think as a general guideline it's not too bad