Rifftrax Book Club: Book 2: Bukowski's "Women"

[Tripe]

I'm telling you of all the girls in the book only Sara played it right.

Sara's the sort of girl I'd respond to if I were in Hank's position.

When she told him she wasn't going to help him out with his other women trouble was ace.

I imagine she doesn't turn up in any other book though.

[bettertomorrowamy]

A lot of the women didn't have anything to offer him artistically in return except for more fodder for his writing.  Sara on the other hand had some artistic skills.

[Tripe]

Even with her slightly odd attachment to the mute Indian Holyman she still seemed more together than most of the other women. But it was just enough flakiness to appeal since the few other women Hank met who were more together bored him.

[anais.jude]

Moving on to Kavalier and Clay............

[Tripe]

Aww you don't want to join in with how wonderful Sara is?

[bettertomorrowamy]

I thought we were going to talk about the book more, but oh well.

[anais.jude]

I'm done now, and you're crazy.  That was not a happily ever after ending.  It was just another lie until there is another better lie.  I mean this relationship will last just as long as the others.  The only reason it is good now is because he finally got to have sex with her, and wants some more and is intrigued by how she carries herself.  Like he admits himself, it won't last.

So, you guys think that the relationhsip will end sooner because Hank will go back to his old habits? I would prefer that, but why did he bother ending it when he did?

[Tripe]

Ok well why does Irving Welsh end Trainspotting where he does? In both the main character almost bellows "this is not a lasting change I'm going back to my old ways sooner or later" but they both end with what ostensibly is a new beginning.

[bettertomorrowamy]

Yeah, I mean I think it was a great ending.  The only other way to end it would be to have him die while fucking, but he himself would have to die too so that wouldn't work since he writes from experience.  He got to live out his dream of having women desire him, and he still gets to be a selfish son-of-a-bitch.  If he wasn't famous he could still be a selfish bastard, but women wouldn't seek out his company.  Fame as advantages I guess.  This is the real American Dream:  to be a selfish as you can, and still make a living and get laid.

[anais.jude]

I dpn't think Hank is selfish though. He gives these women everything, money, his time, his car, plane tickets.

[Tripe]

Good point, he's quite generous in a material way, emotionally however he's pretty shut off.

Not that he's alone in being like that in the book.

[bettertomorrowamy]

But he gives money and emotions to women so that he can get what he wants, not simply because it is a nice thing to do.
Everything he does is in the end to satisfy a desire he has.

[anais.jude]

doesn't everyone do that, though? Perhaps that is why his adventures with Women all suck--he doesn't know what it means to have a healthy adult relationship

[bettertomorrowamy]

Well yeah, everybody does it to some degree, but Hank has a serious problem with it.
They say the worst thing you can do to an artist is appreciate their work while they're alive.
It just feeds his narcissistic tendencies.

[anais.jude]

I disagree. Hank's "using" of these women's has less to do with any narccissism and more to do with stunted emotional psyche.


and IMO, artists aren't narcissists--they have some of the lowest self esteem out there, and they are fucked up because they chose to spend their time being rejected on a daily basis.