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Author Topic: This is Rifftrax!!! dum-dada-dum-dada-dum-da-dum-da-dum (was 300 a good movie?)  (Read 23152 times)

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Offline FrensaGeran

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I'll put it this way. '300' was a good movie. It was a bad film.
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons." - T.S. Eliot


Offline SabreMau

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Given a copy? To make fun of? I guess they figure that however many people rent the movie to watch the riffing are just that many more people paying them in the end... still, it's nice of them. The Time Chasers guys wouldn't have done that.

Actually the Time Chasers guys would have.  If you watched the intro by Mike on the DVD the creators threw a screening party when they heard it was gonna be on the show.  They were excited to see it and only got upset after the fact.

Not all of them got upset, as I recall. The interview with the director was along the lines of, "Most of us were fans and knew what to expect and we roared with laughter and drank way too much. I had a blast, never laughed so hard in my life.  Some of us, particularly a couple of the cast members drank too much and took it a bit too seriously by the end of the night, but no one has any lasting scars..."
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 08:31:43 PM by SabreMau »


Offline oorat

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the strange point in the film where they suggest that the other,  weedy Greeks are boy-lovers as if not to damage the Spartan mythology by making out that they aren't boy-lovers themselves when they very much were.

Well, that is a good point.  there was a bit of disdain towards the Athenians.   The spartans practiced and promoted same sex relationships with their troops because they felt it made the warriors fight harder if they knew they were fighting for the life of a lover.  The Athenian bit was because some of the higher society Athenian members had no problems with sleeping with little kids.  Spartans started around adolescent age. 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 11:01:04 PM by oorat »


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Offline eclipt1c

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(only Butler's Connery impression shines)

Well they ARE both Scottish, so...

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The million strong army carefully hidden around a corner for most of the film seemed like a budget choice than an artistic one

Like it is in real life?



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overdone action


It was based on the comic book, and the comic book was an emulation of Greek epic, so it's supposed to be over the top and absurdly lofty, as is the dialogue.

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strange point in the film where they suggest that the other,  weedy Greeks are boy-lovers as if not to damage the Spartan mythology by making out that they aren't boy-lovers themselves when they very much were.

Homosexuality WAS a taboo in Greece.  Men were supposed to love their wives and their 'eromenos' (younger male).  It was more socially taboo for the Greeks to love only a man than it is for us.  The relationship between the older male, 'erastes' and the 'eromenos' was not only sexual, but it was as much genuine love as a marriage, and love through this relationship is how most men learned how to love their wives.  It is also through this system that the males are educated in just about everything.  Also, once the younger male starts to reach manhood, the relationship is broken off.  It also wasn't acceptable for older men to participate in this system, the usual age was about 25-35 for the older man.  Also, this was almost exclusively an aristocratic practice.

Thus the slur comes on as an insult as to the Athenians being homosexual pedophiles which was as much taboo then as it is now, but also a shot at their wealth and laziness as to how they go about doing it.  Spartans would have had their relationship in the sense of preparing for war, whereas the Athenians would have most of theirs be in the context of philosophy and such.

'Skip to the End' - Spaced


Offline kastofsna

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i'm not a huge fan of this movie. i've only seen it.....15 or 16 times so far. so i'll probably enjoy the rifftrax.


Offline countv

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(only Butler's Connery impression shines)

Well they ARE both Scottish, so...

Quote
The million strong army carefully hidden around a corner for most of the film seemed like a budget choice than an artistic one

Like it is in real life?


Quote
overdone action


It was based on the comic book, and the comic book was an emulation of Greek epic, so it's supposed to be over the top and absurdly lofty, as is the dialogue.

Quote
strange point in the film where they suggest that the other,  weedy Greeks are boy-lovers as if not to damage the Spartan mythology by making out that they aren't boy-lovers themselves when they very much were.

Homosexuality WAS a taboo in Greece.  Men were supposed to love their wives and their 'eromenos' (younger male).  It was more socially taboo for the Greeks to love only a man than it is for us.  The relationship between the older male, 'erastes' and the 'eromenos' was not only sexual, but it was as much genuine love as a marriage, and love through this relationship is how most men learned how to love their wives.  It is also through this system that the males are educated in just about everything.  Also, once the younger male starts to reach manhood, the relationship is broken off.  It also wasn't acceptable for older men to participate in this system, the usual age was about 25-35 for the older man.  Also, this was almost exclusively an aristocratic practice.

Thus the slur comes on as an insult as to the Athenians being homosexual pedophiles which was as much taboo then as it is now, but also a shot at their wealth and laziness as to how they go about doing it.  Spartans would have had their relationship in the sense of preparing for war, whereas the Athenians would have most of theirs be in the context of philosophy and such.



My point about the army hidden around the corner was based on the feeling that 300 was built as epic, perhaps to save the scale of the final moments of the film they seemed to shy away from showing the massive army that the Spartans were facing. I felt that this scale was lacking in the film. The film which presented itself as 300 versus 1,000,000. As a visual (which I beleive the film was entirely based around, and the film's theme of painterly effects) I found it almost cheap to shy from showing this scale. I understand that was the Spartan plan, to narrow their numbers and advantage, but to never actually see this army almost removed any threat they posed as they certainly didn't pose a threat to the Spartans even with their huge numbers advantage, or at least the film presents it this way.
The overdone action comment was more based on the stylistic fast/slow/fast/slow thing the film does during the action. I understand the choice of using this style but the amount of times it was used lessened it's potency for me. The action was always going to be showy, I just thought it wasn't showy enough.
The arguement of boy-lovers may be discussed historically via points of view but my point that it was a choice of the filmmakers to ignore Spartan "choices" in sexuality was one made exclusively to not alienate the largely male and straight audience the film was aimed at. They turned the Spartans into an American Football team complete with whooping and Pacinoesque barking. Ignoring the blatent homoerotic thread running straight through the whole film, much like most football movies do too. Muscle Marys in thongs, patting each other on the back. What bugged me about the Thespian "boy-lovers" comment in the film was that it sort of removed that knowing quality from the film. Much like Mister Bard Spartan damaged the dry humour of the film that only Gerard Butler seemed to be able to deliver by being so painfully "bad shakespeare-serious". There were things about the film which I felt could've been delivered in a subtler way, instead they tried to pretend they weren't there at all and the "boy-lover" bit was a solid gold example of just that, in nipping that underlying feeling in the bud before you get a chance to comment on it. They could've just had each spartan turn to the face the camera and say "I'm not gay by the way" after they said anything and it wouldn't have felt as forced as that bit did. In so doing they removed any hint of humanity left in the film. Of course that's just me. It could be that I'm taking a big dumb, cardboard action film too seriously. Butler was good. Only class act in the film.


Offline Robyn

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I'd like to put in my two cents, but apparently, according to my brother, I do not have the capacity nor the RIGHT to formulate an opinion on my own.

See, I never watched 300 in it's pure, unriffed form. I simply never wanted to - it looked like a big, dumb, action movie, and while I am quite capable of enjoying big, dumb, action, I was pretty full from previous big, dumb, action movies. At any rate, my brother got in a tizzy and insisted that I let "those [bleep]ing Mystery Science Theater guys" ruin the movie for me. Maybe he's right, maybe it was unfair to the movie to only watch it riffed, but...well, I didn't feel like being fair, I felt like laughing! :P

So screw him, and furthermore, screw Mike and and the gang, because I AM capable of deciding what I do and do not like, regardless of whose commentary I listen to! I have an opinion, dammit, and I'M GONNA SAY IT:

Everything Mike, Kevin, and Bill said was absolutely right.

D'oh. :-[ Look, we just happen to agree on a lot of things, okay!? Well, except the stuff Kevin said about Hunchback Gollum's meat and potatoes. ^_^;;

Okay, seriously, I thought the movie had some neat parts. It's just that there was nothing I hadn't seen before. It's like The Lord of the Rings and Gladiator went to a party together, got completely smashed, and woke up the next morning totally naked and hungover, with no memories of the night before, and an equally naked and hungover The Matrix sprawled out on the floor nearby. The Pirates of the Carribean was there too, but he got out of there before anyone woke up, because that's just how he is.

I did think it was interesting how Leonadies seemed to believe men should reject their corrupt deities and oracles and tea leaves and crystal balls, and that each man should take his fate into his own hands by virtue of the sheer strength of his body and heart. I...I think that was a theme anyway. Maybe. o_O;;

All in all, meh. Maybe it's just the whole lack of testicles thing that's keeping me from really liking 300. ;D

Oh and...hi, by the way. Long-time viewer, first actual post in the forum. Heh. ^_^;;


Offline Hebs

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I liked the movie in it's original form.  Varley's beautiful watercolor was preserved on film, the cinematography was very elegant, and I genuinely liked Butler.  Yes, there are parts that are silly, I wasn't entirely crazy over the injected scenes with the wife, and the air-brushed ab thing was funny, but I'd like to think of this movie being riffed not because it's a 'bad' movie, but because there just lots of opportunities for good jokes.
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Offline bettertomorrowamy

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Yeah, that's why they say this is not MST3k version 2.  Nobody is forcing them to watch TERRIBLE movies.  They're watching movies that are riffable and that's the only criteria.  That being said, they should never riff comedies.  I guess for the same reason they shouldn't riff documentaries.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 09:53:23 AM by bettertomorrowamy »
On timeout


Offline RobtheBarbarian

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Okay, seriously, I thought the movie had some neat parts. It's just that there was nothing I hadn't seen before. It's like The Lord of the Rings and Gladiator went to a party together, got completely smashed, and woke up the next morning totally naked and hungover, with no memories of the night before, and an equally naked and hungover The Matrix sprawled out on the floor nearby. The Pirates of the Carribean was there too, but he got out of there before anyone woke up, because that's just how he is.

Welcome to the forum, and for what it's worth I agree.  ;D


Offline Isaac S.

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It's like The Lord of the Rings and Gladiator went to a party together, got completely smashed, and woke up the next morning totally naked and hungover, with no memories of the night before, and an equally naked and hungover The Matrix sprawled out on the floor nearby. The Pirates of the Carribean was there too, but he got out of there before anyone woke up, because that's just how he is.

I vote best first post ever because of that paragraph.  Welcome!


Offline RobtheBarbarian

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[yt=425,350]pi2t58CRmbU[/yt]

So my friend starts telling me how she saw 300 and how completely awesome it was. I tell her that it's cool, but not that cool. She disagrees, and I respond by asking if the abundance of men in leather panties influenced her opinion at all. She said yes.


Offline BathTub

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Hahahaha.


Offline Pak-Man

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Women get an army of scantily clad spartans, men get... Gorgo. :^)

And violence I suppose. We men love the killin'!

What if the shoe was on the other foot?

If they'd managed to make a movie about opposing armies of scantily clad women, and there was like- one hot guy for the ladies and his name was Bingo, or something, do you think it would be more of a men's movie, or less? Discuss. :^)