Author Topic: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.  (Read 4915 times)

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Offline RandyMistie

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2007, 02:44:19 PM »
Parrots, (particularly African Greys), are being reclassified as having primate intelligence.  At least the intelligence of two or three year old humans.  They are very intelligent birds.  Ravens, as well.  Many birds are much smarter than they need to be to aquire food.  Many scientists believe it comes from their accute eyesight needed for flight.

I raised several birds as a kid what I found had fallen out of a nest and survived.  I nursed them to health and let them free into the wild.  They were very smart and easy to train.  Some didn't want to leave.

Eh, I found them to be a huge pain in the ass, but imagine the good kharma I got by keeping them alive!
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Offline AmandaGal

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2007, 03:11:26 PM »
Yeah, parrots are very smart and have very complex social structures. The studies by Irene Pepperburg and her African Grey Alex were at one time groundbreaking because if you dissect a parrot brain, it looks very simple and it looks purely limbic but it's actually not.  They actually have a very complex structure similiar to our cortex but it's just arranged a bit differently.  For years, scientists dismissed any signs of avian intelligence as us anthropomorphizing because they looked at their brain as simple.  I think it was partly Alex and partly the fact that we understand human brains better now that made science dig further into them.

Birds actually have a complex language, accents (they can recognize where other birds are from), social hierarchies, etc.  They learn to live in our human world and can even compose sentences, words, etc. to prove that "understand" human language (like a child does).  I'm not saying a parrot will ever have an intelligent conversation with anyone (although considering some of the humans I talk to, I'd rather talk to a parrot) but they can learn the same basics that human babies learn.  They can learn to categorize (which is one of the first steps of human intelligence) like items, different items (they can tell you what the difference is "size" "shape" "color"), can compare items in a category ( "bigger" "smaller") and have a sense of self.  All of those are things used in human babies as signs of  intellect development.  The first thing kids learn is to categorize like items and then they learn differences and self-awareness is usually one of the later sign of intellect.

Of course, like a kid, a parrot has to be taught.  Not all parrots are geniuses either.  There are "slow" ones just like in humans.  I swear mine is a moron but one at the zoo, I bet if we tried to train him he'd be a real genius.  You can just tell he knows stuff and he takes it in.  He, like a baby, imitates human actions and sounds, trying to put it together. It's hard to be a bird operating in a human world though.  My dumb bird just hangs upside down, screams hello and makes goofy eyes like "duh" all the time, poor little moron.

Oh yeah, ravens are smart too and other corvids.  They've been known to make tools and to "learn" how to make humans do their work for them.  Suprisingly enough, vultures (new world) are actually pretty intelligent too.  Probably below parrots and corvids but they rank pretty highly compared to some other birds.

I could go on but, I don't know what this has to do with rifftrax :)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 03:18:22 PM by AmandaGal »
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Offline RandyMistie

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2007, 03:22:56 PM »
Yeah, Amanda, my personal belief is that intelligence, personality, "the mind", whatever, has nothing to do with anatomy.  There are many animal species that appear to have little or no brain at all but show remarkable intelligence.

The idea that the bigger the brain- the smarter the animal, must have been thought up by a man.  Size doesn't matter! 

(I hope...)
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Offline sarcasm_made_Easy

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2007, 06:24:39 PM »
Quote
Yeah, Amanda, my personal belief is that intelligence, personality, "the mind", whatever, has nothing to do with anatomy.

for clarifacation randy are you disagreeing with amandas post about the validity of pepperburg's study?


Offline RandyMistie

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2007, 06:37:57 PM »
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Yeah, Amanda, my personal belief is that intelligence, personality, "the mind", whatever, has nothing to do with anatomy.

for clarifacation randy are you disagreeing with amandas post about the validity of pepperburg's study?

No, I was talking about penis size.
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Offline AmandaGal

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2007, 06:38:58 PM »
I should probably clarify that Pepperburg's studies were often written off as being anthropomorphizing on her part because scientists said parrot brains were designed too simply to be complex.  So, Pepperburg agrees with Randy. 

She was one of the first to study the intelligence of parrots (specifically Grey's).  She kind of flew in the face of science by saying these creatures are actually smarter than we thought possible (by the design of their brain).  Her studies, the Alex studies, are focused on one parrot who, I personally think she lucked into. Like I said, parrots run the gamut of intelligence.  Luckily she found a MENSA level parrot instead of a moronic one.  I imagine if Tobi (my bird) were the first to be in such a study, they'd probably still think parrots were idiots.   :)

She's gotten other parrots in her program and some are smart but she still hasn't found a bird as intelligent as Alex (who is still alive last I heard, these guys live 70-100 years).  Alex could do things that scientists, at first, said were impossible for a bird to do and even when she proved he could do them, they would write it off as a parlor trick or "training" instead of intelligence.  She and others have since proved it is possible and that kind of "intelligence" develops in the wild too.

Alex actually creates words to express his thoughts and has an amazing vocabulary.  He is a very jealous, emotionally immature creature from her accounts though.  He wants her to love only him and never leave him alone, etc.  Very much like a child...and every other parrot I know.  One of our parrots is at the zoo because the woman who raised him met a fellow and whenever he would come over the bird would throw a fit and whenever he got near the cage, the bird would go insane.  He would attack the guy every chance he got.  The guy said, "I really want to marry you but not with that thing in the house."  He's a good bird though.  Very smart and sweet...just not to that guy I guess.  It's hard for a bird that sees humans as "flock mates" though.  In the wild, your flock mates don't go around cavorting with some strange other bird.  It's fair to get pissed off about that!

Birds don't have penis' [ignores obvious].  However, in the respect size ... well, I don't want to let the secret out.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 06:41:19 PM by AmandaGal »
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Offline AmandaGal

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2007, 06:50:20 PM »
I'm very long winded...I'll stop talking about parrots now.  I'll let Tobi reply next time since they're so smert and all.  He'd just type "redrum" or something  screwy like that though.
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Offline sarcasm_made_Easy

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2007, 07:02:48 PM »
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In the wild, your flock mates don't go around cavorting with some strange other bird

luck be a parrot tonight


sorry your quote made me think of sinatra for some inexplicable reason


Quote
I'm very long winded...I'll stop talking about parrots now.  I'll let Tobi reply next time since they're so smert and all.  He'd just type "redrum" or something  screwy like that though.

i like it actually.  its interesting, weve had such strange conversations how is this any different


Offline AmandaGal

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2007, 07:09:55 PM »
People in real life know me as the nutty parrot lady.  I would hate for the board to think of me as that too.  It's odd really, this lady I hadn't heard from since high school called me up a year or so ago and was all, "I saw you in the paper with a parrot.  I have a Grey myself! " Eventually, she asked, "I was wondering if I could put you in my will to take mine when I die!"  I'm like "uh....wha? I haven't talked to you in 10 years."

I also get called often by random people who I don't even know with parrot questions because "a friend of a friend of a friend gave me this number."  I just used to work at a zoo, I'm not a parrot expert.  If it were me, I'd probably think about calling someone like a vet maybe? Naw.  It makes more sense to call a random person you've never met in your entire life.  :)
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Offline sarcasm_made_Easy

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2007, 07:32:08 PM »
wow that sucks lol 


Offline Hobbit

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2007, 09:39:10 PM »
Yeah, Amanda, my personal belief is that intelligence, personality, "the mind", whatever, has nothing to do with anatomy.  There are many animal species that appear to have little or no brain at all but show remarkable intelligence.

The idea that the bigger the brain- the smarter the animal, must have been thought up by a man.  Size doesn't matter! 

(I hope...)

It appears to matter somewhat, as do the brain's wrinkles.    If the size of the brain didn't matter, human beings would likely have brains small enough to squeeze through the birth canal rather than having a skull that didn't harden until after birth.


Offline Gumba Masta

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2007, 11:41:15 PM »
o..okay now, guys, if you wanted to creep me out, you managed to do that...
you can stop talking about parrots now, ok, guys? o_o;;


Offline sarcasm_made_Easy

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2007, 11:42:34 PM »
hey amanda are a cockatoos a type of parrot?


Offline Indomitus

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2007, 07:04:56 AM »
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just smart enough to think of new and imaginative ways to be stupid.
I think I just found me a signature.   :clap:


Offline AmandaGal

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Re: Daredevil, Matrix and other stuff.
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2007, 10:01:54 AM »
Cockatoos are parrots.
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