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Author Topic: Penn and Teller: BS!  (Read 32070 times)

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Offline torgosPizza

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #180 on: March 31, 2007, 08:18:22 PM »
Exactly, Penn and Teller even had these two people who were arguing that same (from what I can recall) point. They said the big box stores were bad for capitalism, and what they were describing as being better was a socialist ideology. Kind of strange when you look at it that way, but sometimes people aren't quite sure what they're arguing.

I love shows like this, though, that - whether or not you believe or agree with their argument - it does get you talking, and in my case, considering other angles & viewpoints I hadn't even taken into consideration.


Offline sarcasm_made_Easy

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #181 on: March 31, 2007, 08:23:53 PM »
actually i think london was making the case that it was good for the capitolism (in merely economic senses) but bad for the people and thats why socialism would be next.  Of course london wrote it in the earlier stages of the industrial revolution.  I wonder what he would think of the world now.  i also wonder which he wrote first, the sea wolf or the Iron Heel


Offline gbeenie

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #182 on: April 01, 2007, 05:39:43 AM »
Exactly, Penn and Teller even had these two people who were arguing that same (from what I can recall) point. They said the big box stores were bad for capitalism, and what they were describing as being better was a socialist ideology. Kind of strange when you look at it that way, but sometimes people aren't quite sure what they're arguing.

Exactly right. And this happens a lot. If you want to bring up a real criticism of Wal-Mart you could point out that they have, on occasion, sponsored eminent domain abuse by local governments, by getting politicians to condemn privately-owned land that was wanted for a new Wal-Mart. On the other hand, as much as this pisses me off, the TRUE culprit in these cases are the politicians, who shouldn't have such power to begin with (and, of course, the Supreme Court, for their insane, indefensible decision on Kelo V. New London).
"All I ask of you is one thing: please don't be cynical. I hate cynicism -- it's my least favorite quality and it doesn't lead anywhere.
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Offline Teaflax

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #183 on: April 01, 2007, 08:03:55 PM »
The point is that monopolies of any kind end up being bad for the common man, whether they are the end-game of laissez-faire capitalism or state-run communism/socialism. That's why "anything the free market does = always good and untouchable" is as insane as "anything the state does = always good and untouchable".

As usual, the optimum solution lies in a balance of the two, a grey area that makes many people very uncomfortable, because it means you have to take a stand based on the particular circumstance instead of just knee-jerking into either "the invisible hand of the free market will solve that" or "a government-decreed five year plan will solve that".
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Offline J-Proof

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #184 on: April 01, 2007, 09:23:04 PM »
That's why "anything the free market does = always good and untouchable" is as insane as "anything the state does = always good and untouchable".

^ The above description ("anything the state does = always good and untouchable") is what Waddles whispers in his sleep....
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Offline Sharktopus

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #185 on: April 01, 2007, 10:45:01 PM »
I once a sign in a bar window advertising a live performance by the Invisible Hand of Adam Smith. I'm still not sure if that's a really cool or really stupid band name.


Offline gbeenie

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #186 on: April 02, 2007, 06:24:58 AM »
The point is that monopolies of any kind end up being bad for the common man, whether they are the end-game of laissez-faire capitalism or state-run communism/socialism. That's why "anything the free market does = always good and untouchable" is as insane as "anything the state does = always good and untouchable".

As usual, the optimum solution lies in a balance of the two, a grey area that makes many people very uncomfortable, because it means you have to take a stand based on the particular circumstance instead of just knee-jerking into either "the invisible hand of the free market will solve that" or "a government-decreed five year plan will solve that".

Except that monopolies don't happen in a true free-market economy; when people have a genuine choice (i.e. they're not forced into doing business with a particular company by the government; take the way cable TV used to be), there will always be people who will choose other options, sometimes just because the other option is NOT the bigger competitor (would ANYONE use Linux if they didn't hate Microsoft?). Didn't Penn himself say on the episode that he was more of a Target shopper?
"All I ask of you is one thing: please don't be cynical. I hate cynicism -- it's my least favorite quality and it doesn't lead anywhere.
Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you're kind, amazing things will happen."

- Conan O'Brien


Offline torgosPizza

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #187 on: April 02, 2007, 07:46:09 AM »
Yes Penn said he was "more of a Target guy." I think that proves the almost-opposite of your point (I think... your reply us a bit fuzzy) ... there is a choice. Target, and Wal-mart may be the biggest, but they're not the only ones out there. No one is forcing anyone to shop there, so I think your argument about free market is a moot point. It's not the government dictating who shops where, as they said in the BS episode, it really comes down to the customers and their demand. If everyone thought it was a bad idea, those stores probably wouldn't be as popular as they are.

I think Teaflax has the idea - as with MOST ideas, the optimal solution is in a grey zone. I can get along perfectly fine for months without having to visit a Wally's or a Target - there are plenty of stores that carry what they do, but without the convenience of the "under one roof" philosophy.

Beenie, I think you are confusing government-run command economics with the political atmosphere that encompasses everything these days. It's a shame that so much happens or exists because of a bottom line somewhere. But I will confess, I like the fact that I can go to a Target and shop for shoes and tires at the same time.


Offline pyro

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #188 on: April 02, 2007, 02:53:37 PM »
(would ANYONE use Linux if they didn't hate Microsoft?).

I've never seen the attraction of Linux except for geek cred or if you're a programmer....

unless you're easily influenced by this



which if that makes you use an OS, then you're right back to the geek thing.... (that slogan's not really that great for them though)


Offline RandyMistie

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #189 on: April 02, 2007, 04:41:14 PM »
(would ANYONE use Linux if they didn't hate Microsoft?).

I've never seen the attraction of Linux except for geek cred or if you're a programmer....

unless you're easily influenced by this



which if that makes you use an OS, then you're right back to the geek thing.... (that slogan's not really that great for them though)

HOLY JEEBUS!!!  I never saw that pic before, but it's my new favorite thing in the whole world!
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Offline pyro

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #190 on: April 02, 2007, 04:58:20 PM »
you do realize a quick google search will get you pictures like that without the stuff blocking the best parts, right?


Offline RandyMistie

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #191 on: April 02, 2007, 05:10:33 PM »
you do realize a quick google search will get you pictures like that without the stuff blocking the best parts, right?

Eh, and a dozen spyware programs and an angry wife.  That's a part of the internet I try to stay away from, (I say "try"... I don't always succeed, but...)
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Offline mrbasehart

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #192 on: April 02, 2007, 05:19:34 PM »
you do realize a quick google search will get you pictures like that without the stuff blocking the best parts, right?

Eh, and a dozen spyware programs and an angry wife.  That's a part of the internet I try to stay away from, (I say "try"... I don't always succeed, but...)

Besides, you don't need the internet.  You could just look through your window at the neighbour's TV...   ;D


Offline RandyMistie

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #193 on: April 02, 2007, 05:27:07 PM »
you do realize a quick google search will get you pictures like that without the stuff blocking the best parts, right?

Eh, and a dozen spyware programs and an angry wife.  That's a part of the internet I try to stay away from, (I say "try"... I don't always succeed, but...)

Besides, you don't need the internet.  You could just look through your window at the neighbour's TV...   ;D

HEHE!!!  Well remembered, mrbasehart!!!  Well played, sir!
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Offline Sharktopus

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Re: Penn and Teller: BS!
« Reply #194 on: April 02, 2007, 07:33:07 PM »
Target and Wal-Mart aren't quite the same thing. For example, Wal-Mart has a broader selection, while every surface in Target isn't coated in grime.