RVR II's Star Trek thread.. Cause it's sure to veer off course!

[MartyS (Gromit)]

To rewatch Voyager you really have to skip around a lot.  Episodes without at least one character being annoying are hard to come by.  Good "captain" episodes probably are the most rare.  The way the badness fluctuated between characters you have to blame the writing.  It was like they sat around thinking up who was going to do something stupid this week by throwing darts at a list of the characters.

[Sideswipe]

I tried watching Voyager again the other day, and I just couldn't. Janeway is a horrible character in practically every aspect. I appreciate that she's female and she's empowering for the viewers, but the way I see it, she just makes women look bad. Major Kira from Deep Space Nine is a far better role model. She does make bad decisions, yes, but at least she didn't get her crew stranded on the other side of the goddamn universe for no reason.

Yeah I have to agree with this.. I'm kinda surprised it made it 7 seasons

It was made at the height of UPN and was their flagship show.  If it had been made instead of Enterprise it probably would not have made it to 7.

[RVR II]

I tried watching Voyager again the other day, and I just couldn't. Janeway is a horrible character in practically every aspect. I appreciate that she's female and she's empowering for the viewers, but the way I see it, she just makes women look bad. Major Kira from Deep Space Nine is a far better role model. She does make bad decisions, yes, but at least she didn't get her crew stranded on the other side of the goddamn universe for no reason.

Yeah I have to agree with this.. I'm kinda surprised it made it 7 seasons

It was made at the height of UPN and was their flagship show.  If it had been made instead of Enterprise it probably would not have made it to 7.

Possibly.. I think bringing on that hottie 7 of 9 help things along a bit

[Soguru]

Possibly.. I think bringing on that hottie 7 of 9 help things along a bit

Nobody can deny Jeri Ryan's hotness but the problem is they didn't really develop her character at all. In fairness, I think they at least tried, but she's still the equivalent of a damn Borg drone at the end of the series.

[RVR II]

Possibly.. I think bringing on that hottie 7 of 9 help things along a bit

Nobody can deny Jeri Ryan's hotness but the problem is they didn't really develop her character at all. In fairness, I think they at least tried, but she's still the equivalent of a damn Borg drone at the end of the series.

I agree with this assessment as well.

[Rainbow Dash]

I tried watching Voyager again the other day, and I just couldn't. Janeway is a horrible character in practically every aspect. I appreciate that she's female and she's empowering for the viewers, but the way I see it, she just makes women look bad. Major Kira from Deep Space Nine is a far better role model. She does make bad decisions, yes, but at least she didn't get her crew stranded on the other side of the goddamn universe for no reason.

Fully agreed with Kira.  The problem with Janeway I think stemmed from the writers being afraid to make the woman captain look weak in any way.  So they just made her right all the time.  One week she is right for one reason, and the next she's right for the opposite reason.  Kirk, Picard, and Sisko had their flaws.  They were great leaders, but they were not perfect.  Janeway was right for no other reason than "I'm the captain and I say so".

They gave her a first officer with no personality and was little more than a yes-man for seven years.  Hell, the entire series is based on Janeway making a terrible command decision and getting her crew stranded due to her own incompetence as a leader.  Hell, even Troi passed the test where you have to sacrifice people for the good of the ship and rest of the crew.

[Sideswipe]

They essentially toss out a plot point that could have made for some great story telling with the friction between the Starfleet crew and the Maquis after 3 or 4 episodes.  That should have been a source of tension for most, if not all of the series.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

They gave her a first officer with no personality and was little more than a yes-man for seven years.  Hell, the entire series is based on Janeway making a terrible command decision and getting her crew stranded due to her own incompetence as a leader.  Hell, even Troi passed the test where you have to sacrifice people for the good of the ship and rest of the crew.

That was the premise of the series, to have a ship stranded on the other side of the galaxy.
Besides, are you saying she should have sacrificed an entire world just to get her crew home?  Granted it was somewhat stupid writing to have her have to make that choice, if the premise of the new show was to have a ship stranded then strand the darn thing, don't give them the choice when we all know what the outcome will be.  And if they wanted that choice to haunt the crew it certainly didn't show, the few times it was brought up they pretty much just mention it in passing while making other decisions that didn't get them home either....

I do agree on Chakotay, he did basically nothing for 7 years, at least they gave Riker a few good episodes, I think the only one of Chakotay I find tolerable is the one where he meets the aliens his ancestors on earth worshiped.

[Rainbow Dash]

They gave her a first officer with no personality and was little more than a yes-man for seven years.  Hell, the entire series is based on Janeway making a terrible command decision and getting her crew stranded due to her own incompetence as a leader.  Hell, even Troi passed the test where you have to sacrifice people for the good of the ship and rest of the crew.

That was the premise of the series, to have a ship stranded on the other side of the galaxy.
Besides, are you saying she should have sacrificed an entire world just to get her crew home?  Granted it was somewhat stupid writing to have her have to make that choice, if the premise of the new show was to have a ship stranded then strand the darn thing, don't give them the choice when we all know what the outcome will be.  And if they wanted that choice to haunt the crew it certainly didn't show, the few times it was brought up they pretty much just mention it in passing while making other decisions that didn't get them home either....

I do agree on Chakotay, he did basically nothing for 7 years, at least they gave Riker a few good episodes, I think the only one of Chakotay I find tolerable is the one where he meets the aliens his ancestors on earth worshiped.

Sacrifice an entire planet?  Where do you get that?  There was no reason to abandon the array, and while I do know some argue that she broke the Prime Directive by getting involved, I actually think destroying the array was needed.  The Kazon could not get their hands on that technology.


But that's the problem.  Destroying the array should not have meant being stranded.  A competent Captain would have A.  Ordered a crewman to stay behind and blow up the array after they left (or done it themselves), or B.  Use a fuse.  That's where Janeways stupidity enters.  There was no logical reason for them to be trapped in the Delta Quadrant.  Tuvok says flat out that he know how to get them home, and can access that program.  They had already figured out how to use the array, Janeway just didn't do it.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

They gave her a first officer with no personality and was little more than a yes-man for seven years.  Hell, the entire series is based on Janeway making a terrible command decision and getting her crew stranded due to her own incompetence as a leader.  Hell, even Troi passed the test where you have to sacrifice people for the good of the ship and rest of the crew.

That was the premise of the series, to have a ship stranded on the other side of the galaxy.
Besides, are you saying she should have sacrificed an entire world just to get her crew home?  Granted it was somewhat stupid writing to have her have to make that choice, if the premise of the new show was to have a ship stranded then strand the darn thing, don't give them the choice when we all know what the outcome will be.  And if they wanted that choice to haunt the crew it certainly didn't show, the few times it was brought up they pretty much just mention it in passing while making other decisions that didn't get them home either....

I do agree on Chakotay, he did basically nothing for 7 years, at least they gave Riker a few good episodes, I think the only one of Chakotay I find tolerable is the one where he meets the aliens his ancestors on earth worshiped.

Sacrifice an entire planet?  Where do you get that?  There was no reason to abandon the array, and while I do know some argue that she broke the Prime Directive by getting involved, I actually think destroying the array was needed.  The Kazon could not get their hands on that technology.


But that's the problem.  Destroying the array should not have meant being stranded.  A competent Captain would have A.  Ordered a crewman to stay behind and blow up the array after they left (or done it themselves), or B.  Use a fuse.  That's where Janeways stupidity enters.  There was no logical reason for them to be trapped in the Delta Quadrant.  Tuvok says flat out that he know how to get them home, and can access that program.  They had already figured out how to use the array, Janeway just didn't do it.

The Kazon would have wiped out what was left of the Ocampans to get their water.  And they were all that was left so yes, an entire world would have been wiped out if the array wasn't destroyed.

And again, going over how they could have used the array to get home and then somehow destroy it is pointless, the series would have been over.  I already said it was crappy writing to give them that option in the first place, they tried to use it as a tension builder a few times later on but it always failed.  And pretty much every TV show has those times when they fail to do pretty obvious things, Voyager had more than it's fair share  of them due to crappy writers.

[Rainbow Dash]

They gave her a first officer with no personality and was little more than a yes-man for seven years.  Hell, the entire series is based on Janeway making a terrible command decision and getting her crew stranded due to her own incompetence as a leader.  Hell, even Troi passed the test where you have to sacrifice people for the good of the ship and rest of the crew.

That was the premise of the series, to have a ship stranded on the other side of the galaxy.
Besides, are you saying she should have sacrificed an entire world just to get her crew home?  Granted it was somewhat stupid writing to have her have to make that choice, if the premise of the new show was to have a ship stranded then strand the darn thing, don't give them the choice when we all know what the outcome will be.  And if they wanted that choice to haunt the crew it certainly didn't show, the few times it was brought up they pretty much just mention it in passing while making other decisions that didn't get them home either....

I do agree on Chakotay, he did basically nothing for 7 years, at least they gave Riker a few good episodes, I think the only one of Chakotay I find tolerable is the one where he meets the aliens his ancestors on earth worshiped.

Sacrifice an entire planet?  Where do you get that?  There was no reason to abandon the array, and while I do know some argue that she broke the Prime Directive by getting involved, I actually think destroying the array was needed.  The Kazon could not get their hands on that technology.


But that's the problem.  Destroying the array should not have meant being stranded.  A competent Captain would have A.  Ordered a crewman to stay behind and blow up the array after they left (or done it themselves), or B.  Use a fuse.  That's where Janeways stupidity enters.  There was no logical reason for them to be trapped in the Delta Quadrant.  Tuvok says flat out that he know how to get them home, and can access that program.  They had already figured out how to use the array, Janeway just didn't do it.

The Kazon would have wiped out what was left of the Ocampans to get their water.  And they were all that was left so yes, an entire world would have been wiped out if the array wasn't destroyed.

And again, going over how they could have used the array to get home and then somehow destroy it is pointless, the series would have been over.  I already said it was crappy writing to give them that option in the first place, they tried to use it as a tension builder a few times later on but it always failed.  And pretty much every TV show has those times when they fail to do pretty obvious things, Voyager had more than it's fair share  of them due to crappy writers.

Voyager was a promising idea, handled by incompetents.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Well I'm building another TOS Enterprise, 1:1000 scale this time.  Now that I have a few 1:1000 botany bay models done I need a good looking Enterprise to go with them.  I had built one last fall/winter but used it as a test bed for my big 1:350 model, so it has bad colors and blotches of different clear coats..

Almost ready for decals:

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Since in "Space Seed" they said the Botany Bay was launched in 1996, I've been having some fun with the cargo pod decals I decided to put on my cargo ship model:



I've got some others, Allied, Conrail, even a Lionel one....

Just starting the decals on my 1:1000 TOS Enterprise, got the nacelles done so far, should have started days ago but I keep finding little bits here and there that need putty and paint touch ups.

[Sideswipe]

Larsen's Biscuits and Peniston Oil ship on DY-100s, you need to add them to the cargo pods.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Forgot to share this photo, before I started with the decals I noticed this interesting size comparison: