login

Author Topic: Shakespeare  (Read 5226 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Russell

  • Guest
Shakespeare
« on: November 28, 2009, 01:08:09 AM »
I finally took a class this semester on early Shakespeare. Honestly, and I know many people are going to find this offensive but I friggin' HATE Shakespeare, and now that i have been forced to read his works consisting of poorly constructed sentences and people talking for hours on end and having to read between the lines just to understand what the hell is going on I swear to God I am going to go frickin' crazy!!! *SCREAMS!*


Offline Tripe

  • Stars in Musicals
  • *
  • Posts: 41553
  • Liked: 9932
  • Very dapper
    • Nick Rowley, Voice Artist
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2009, 05:35:40 AM »
his works consisting of poorly constructed sentences
How are they poorly constructed?

having to read between the lines just to understand what the hell is going on
Funny, uneducated groundlings didn't seem to have trouble understanding what was going on for the most part.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 05:37:19 AM by TripeHoundRedux »


anais.jude

  • Guest
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2009, 06:34:46 AM »
I think people don't like Shakespeare because they have to work hard to understand it, but that's what I like about it. It's also what I like about Lovecraft and Faulkner though. Anais = ubernerd


Also, you really need to watch the plays performed, and perfromed well, to get the best essence of it


Offline Tripe

  • Stars in Musicals
  • *
  • Posts: 41553
  • Liked: 9932
  • Very dapper
    • Nick Rowley, Voice Artist
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2009, 06:41:19 AM »
I think people don't like Shakespeare because they have to work hard to understand it, but that's what I like about it. It's also what I like about Lovecraft and Faulkner though
None of those are difficult to understand.


anais.jude

  • Guest
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 06:44:15 AM »
I think people don't like Shakespeare because they have to work hard to understand it, but that's what I like about it. It's also what I like about Lovecraft and Faulkner though
None of those are difficult to understand.

For us laymans they are. People don't like to read things once, let alone multiple times to get the true essence of sentance or story.


Offline Tripe

  • Stars in Musicals
  • *
  • Posts: 41553
  • Liked: 9932
  • Very dapper
    • Nick Rowley, Voice Artist
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 06:45:22 AM »
I think people don't like Shakespeare because they have to work hard to understand it, but that's what I like about it. It's also what I like about Lovecraft and Faulkner though
None of those are difficult to understand.
For us laymans they are.
You have a Master's in English Lit.


anais.jude

  • Guest
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 07:11:40 AM »
I think people don't like Shakespeare because they have to work hard to understand it, but that's what I like about it. It's also what I like about Lovecraft and Faulkner though
None of those are difficult to understand.
For us laymans they are.
You have a Master's in English Lit.

Despite that Master's I still have to read Lovecraft and Faulkner a couple of times to get it. Lovecraft is easier, read the short story, then read it again. Faulkner, I have to re-read a paragraph couple times before I can move on to the next one


Offline mrbasehart

  • Steals from Casinos
  • *****
  • Posts: 16364
  • Liked: 2111
  • Movie-Watching Machine
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 09:13:30 AM »
I think in general people can understand Shakespeare, in terms of plot and character interaction, but I think it's his use of language that can sometimes stump people. 

Tripe's a smarty-pants, so he has no problems.  :)

And for the record: I think Shakespeare's awesome.  :)


Offline Darth Geek

  • The Efron
  • ****
  • Posts: 27865
  • Liked: 5675
  • I am boring and destined to die alone!
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2009, 01:54:36 PM »
I finally took a class this semester on early Shakespeare. Honestly, and I know many people are going to find this offensive but I friggin' HATE Shakespeare, and now that i have been forced to read his works consisting of poorly constructed sentences and people talking for hours on end and having to read between the lines just to understand what the hell is going on I swear to God I am going to go frickin' crazy!!! *SCREAMS!*
I agree with you about Shakespeare, I hate it too (except Midsummer's Night Dream, tha one is interesting). I wouldn't call the sentences "poorly sturctured" because it is a totally different type of structure because of the time period. Which is why it's bullshit that highschoolers have to read it in the original language first, it really is virtually a different language. I also think the worst part is that we are told "this is the greatest thing ever written" before we read it, so if we don't like it or can't understand it (both completely reasonable conclusions) then we feel stupid.

My suggestion is to read the Cliff Notes first so you know what is going on. Then read the full Shakespeare to get everything ese. That way you aren't struggling just to understand what is going on. That should help.



Russell

  • Guest
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2009, 02:16:32 PM »
having to read between the lines just to understand what the hell is going on
Funny, uneducated groundlings didn't seem to have trouble understanding what was going on for the most part.
Ouch! Why don't you come at me with a pick axe next time? Might be less painful.


Offline Tripe

  • Stars in Musicals
  • *
  • Posts: 41553
  • Liked: 9932
  • Very dapper
    • Nick Rowley, Voice Artist
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2009, 08:46:20 PM »
Hey, you're the one saying it's difficult to understand, I'm merely pointing out that a good pottion of the original audience was illiterate and seemed to manage.


Offline Darth Geek

  • The Efron
  • ****
  • Posts: 27865
  • Liked: 5675
  • I am boring and destined to die alone!
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2009, 09:07:49 PM »
The original audience being illiterate is irrelevant, as it was being spoken in the language they were used to.

Also, I hate this nonsense about "hidden meanings" that only come from pretentious professors reading it and re-reading it. Shakespeare was a PLAYWRITE, not a NOVELIST. The only people who were intended to read the text were actors who are studying the role for aspects that can be delivered via performance to a roomfull of people. They were intended to be viewed by people in an uninterupted environment (with possible intermission exception), so if the audience member can't get the meaning behind something when they can't stop, rewind and replay, then it isn't there.



Offline Tripe

  • Stars in Musicals
  • *
  • Posts: 41553
  • Liked: 9932
  • Very dapper
    • Nick Rowley, Voice Artist
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2009, 09:17:19 PM »
The original audience being illiterate is irrelevant, as it was being spoken in the language they were used to.
No, not really. More on this in a moment

Also, I hate this nonsense about "hidden meanings" that only come from pretentious professors reading it and re-reading it.

Depends on which "hidden" meanings you're talking about

Shakespeare was a PLAYWRITE, not a NOVELIST. The only people who were intended to read the text were actors who are studying the role for aspects that can be delivered via performance to a roomfull of people. They were intended to be viewed by people in an uninterupted environment (with possible intermission exception), so if the audience member can't get the meaning behind something when they can't stop, rewind and replay, then it isn't there.

I don't think you really have the foggiest clue about the world in which these plays were put on (oh and he was a playwright, not a playwrite, he was also a poet). The meaning in Shakespeare that you think are hidden were fairly apparent, even to the illiterate groundlings. Shakespeare, and indeed other  Elizabethan and Jacobean (not so  much Caroline) playwrights, created some of the most reference dense works ever performed and the great thing is the audiences generally understood those references.

Just because you aren't up on mythology or theology or history and any of other categories of reference used in a play doesn't mean the fault in you not understanding them lies with the plays. Or, for that matter, with people letting you know what those references are.

Oh and Shakespeare was writing in, and indeed contributed to, early modern English, it's really not all that difficult at all except for spelling changes, it's hardly Piers Plowman* for Pan's sake.

* Which is also only really difficult to understand if you convince yourself that it is.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 09:50:35 PM by TripeHoundRedux »


Offline Maverick Joe Six-Pack

  • Not Hurt By Pain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1416
  • Liked: 3
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2009, 10:31:20 PM »

Also, you really need to watch the plays performed, and perfromed well, to get the best essence of it


As an actor I couldn't agree with Anasi Jude more.  Seeing the plays performed by people that understand what they're saying and can convey the message of the words is what really allows you to see what makes Shakespeare great.  I respect your opinion though, the bard ain't for everybody.  You should check out the movie Titus though with Sir Anthony Hopkins.  It's like a Shakespearean Kill Bill and one of my favorite movies of all time.
"Outside of a dog, a book is Man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx


anais.jude

  • Guest
Re: Shakespeare
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2009, 10:37:11 AM »

Also, you really need to watch the plays performed, and perfromed well, to get the best essence of it


As an actor I couldn't agree with Anasi Jude more.  Seeing the plays performed by people that understand what they're saying and can convey the message of the words is what really allows you to see what makes Shakespeare great.  I respect your opinion though, the bard ain't for everybody.  You should check out the movie Titus though with Sir Anthony Hopkins.  It's like a Shakespearean Kill Bill and one of my favorite movies of all time.

Anasi...interesting spelling of my name, lol ;)

Shakespeare was very much a rapper back in his time. Rappers tend to change the pronunciation and spelling of words to make them fit with the beat. Rap music also has a buttload of refferences.

I think the "hidden meaning" Mr Geek was reffering to is things like "Taming of the Shrew is a pro-feminist text because in Act 5 Scene 1, Katherine says 'the'". I also hate it when professors do that.