Author Topic: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com  (Read 6695 times)

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Offline JoshWay

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Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« on: September 10, 2008, 08:59:21 AM »
I was excited to see CT get a review on DVD Talk, and subsequently surprised at the nasty tone of the completely negative review. It's fine that the author didn't like the episode, I'm just surprised how much animosity he seems to have for the very concept of movie riffing. Here's a choice quote:

Quote
It's as if people like Hodgson et.al., lack the talent to create their own, original comedy, so instead like parasites they latch onto the efforts of others. People like Hodgson prefer to describe what they do as "[riffing] the movies we love," but that's really just a euphemism for contempt-laden mockery.

He also argues that shows like MST and CT show a disdain for and ignorance about old movies, and betray a "hipper than thou" attitude. I don't agree with that at all. A bad movie is a bad movie, but I think Joel and the crew (and Mike and the crew) showed a real love for the history of movies in their writing.

Anyway, I was just a bit disappointed by this.


Offline RoninFox

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2008, 09:03:31 AM »
Also interesting that he's warning plasma tv users that the images of the riffers could be burned permanently into their screen...yeah pure black images sure have a tendency to do that.


Offline torgosPizza

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2008, 09:17:34 AM »
Keep in mind that his name is Stuart Galbraith IV. I just imagine a guy with elbow patches and a monocle reviewing DVDs from his leather chair.
I work REALLY hard on the site. (Not the forum so much.) I'd love it if you bought me a beer via PayPal!


Offline PsypherPunk

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 09:28:39 AM »
I disagree with his review but I'm trying desperately not to get worked up about it; it's a single review yet for some reason it's incensed quite a few people. It's one of those things where it's difficult to see as anything other than another person who "just doesn't get it". It's easy to 'riffing' as "contempt-laden mockery" but if Rifftrax's sale statistics are anything to go by then that would appear to be untrue.

Alternatively: meh. Who cares?


Offline Bairman

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 09:31:04 AM »
I believe "fuck 'em if they can't take a joke" applies here.


Offline kodiakthejuggler

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 09:31:40 AM »
Think of it this way: some people HATE HATE HATE it when others talk during the movie(not me), especially to mock it or make fun of it. It doesn't even have to be a good movie. I'm guessing this guy's in the same boat. Too bad for him he doesn't get any joy out of it, whereas ALL of us here at the Rifftrax.com forum DO!!


Offline Bairman

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 09:34:13 AM »
Think of it this way: some people HATE HATE HATE it when others talk during the movie(not me), especially to mock it or make fun of it. It doesn't even have to be a good movie. I'm guessing this guy's in the same boat. Too bad for him he doesn't get any joy out of it, whereas ALL of us here at the Rifftrax.com forum DO!!

I'm one of those people too, but as we all know, talking during the movie is the whole POINT of RiffTrax, CT & MST3K.  I guess this guy just doesn't get it.


Offline Matt B

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 09:44:31 AM »
Galbraith has a long, long history of anti-MST3k rants. When I first started surfing the web, one of the first things that i came across was a newspaper column of his ranting about the crass MST3k fans. This was in 1993.

I saw this "review" yesterday and I've been working on an appropriate response, which I'll post later today. (It would have last night, but I forgot to bring the file home.)


Online mrbasehart

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 10:18:11 AM »
Maybe Bill or Kevin beat him up and stole his lunch money as a child?


Offline Matt B

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 10:34:42 AM »
Well, here was the original article that started this all on April 22, 1993:

(From here. Spelling errors are due to transcription errors.)

Quote
HOPPING MAD OVER 'MST3000'

By STUART GALBRAITH IV
NEWS SPECLAL WRITER

My wife, Anne, normally writes this column, but right now she's just too
mad. She just caught part of the Comedy Channel's "Mystery Science
Theater 3000."

For anyone lucky enough to have avoided the program thus far "MST 3000"
features an "astronaut" and several "robots" (the latter actually
Muppet-like puppets) who watch real, honest-to goodness movies while
making comments, supposedly comical, based on the events onscreen.

The impact of this program, not only on the "so-bad-it's-good" genre, but
on movies of all types, is tremendous. At a recent 24-hour science
fiction movie marathon in Columbus, Ohio, Anne and I watched helplessly
as classic films the likes of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"and
Disney's "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" were mercilessly assaulted by
audience members "inspired" by this insipid show.   One patron even
brought a life-size replica of one of the robots to keep him company.

After enduring several hours of crude, sexist remarks, nonstop belching
(Noel Coward it ain't) and other contemptible, frighteningly animal-like
behavior from these morons--about one-third of the audience--we left
furious and deeply saddened.

We felt sorry for all the children in the audience, children who were
presumably seeing these films for the first time. And as film Critic Gene
Siskel has rightly stated:  You can only see a film for the first time
once. What were they to make of all this mayhem'?

Given the chance to work its powers, 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers" is
still genuinely creepy and unsettling, "20,000 Leagues" is still full of
wonder and excitement. But uninterested audience members didn't give
either film a chance. "Mystery Science Theater 3000" had given them the
green light to tear these pictures to shreds, and so they did. Just like
the madman who, a while back, flipped out in a Florence museum and took a
swing at Michelangelo's "David's" big toe.

An usher I spoke uith suggested the audience would calm down for the
newer films shown later that evening; laughing at older films, he
implied, was somehow acceptable simply because they were older, as if a
picture made before 1980 was inherently inferior to something new.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending bad films as great art, nor am I
demanding stony silence during screenings of "Plan 9 From Outer Space." A
bad script, cheap special effects, and amateurish acting can turn a bad
movie into a laugh riot. The difference here is the audience didn't let
the films' inadequacies or attributes speak for itself. They simply
didn't want to sit still for 90 minutes and keep their mouths shut. Long
before the program even began, these fools had declared an open season on
our film heritage.

Their complete lack of consideration was topped only by their astonishing
lack of talent. "Mystery Science Theater 3000" is itself painfully
unfunny, and this audience was much worse than that. The folks behind the
TV show and at the theater lack both the talent and the guts to do
stand-up before a real audience, or come up uith original material on
their own (they use so-called "bad" movies as their crutch). These people
are talentless cretins, and no one should have to put up with their
behavior in a public theater.

Every film, no matter how good or bad, deserves a chance. If you're
someone who believes film patrons want to spend $6.00 to listen to you
yak, please stay home. It'll make Anne--and myself--a lot happier.


Offline kodiakthejuggler

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 10:40:47 AM »
You know, the guy has valid arguments, here.

While I think he's wrong that MST3K is "painfully unfunny" (they're funny 99% of the time), I can see where he's coming from. I don't, however, agree in the slightest that MST3K is full of "talentless cretins". He's being unfair.


Offline ManUnderMask

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 01:51:55 PM »
You know, this guy is blaming MST3K for people making fun of a movie like parents blame video games for violence.

People have ALWAYS talked during movies, and made jokes during bad movies. Yes it's annoying if done in a social situation like a movie theater, and it's probably why more and more people stopped going to the movies anyway, but it has nothing to do with the little puppet show. Hell, if everyone who makes jokes and talks during movies watched MST3K, it would still be on and be one of, if not THE, highest rated show EVER.
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Offline GregMcduck

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 02:01:51 PM »
Quote
"astronaut"


Offline Bob

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 03:29:41 PM »
I bet he wets the bed and his "wife" of which he speaks is really his right hand.


Offline Matt B

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Re: Vicious Wasp Woman review on DVDTalk.com
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 08:03:58 PM »
Oh dear. I seem to have fallen back into old bad habits.

Mystery Usenet Theater 3000
The Wasp Woman Review
By Stuart Galbraith IV

Misted by Matt Blackwell

[The Satellite of Love]

[Mike, Tom and Crow stand uneasily behind the console.]

Mike: [haltingly] Hey all. Welcome back to the Satellite of Love. Er,
      again. Even though I'm pretty sure that we're still off the air.
Crow: Have been for years in fact.
 Tom: I dunno. I get the feeling that I've been sitting on a beach,
      sipping mamosas and getting ready to make fun of a pirate movie.
Crow: Huh. Me too. Plus I get the feeling that people are screaming
      at me to finish something starting with "Endea...".
[Mike seems to make a quick kicking motion underneath the console. A
 muffled "Ow!" can be heard.]
Mike: Anyway, we've been called back into duty to provide a
      counterpoint to a recent review of a DVD. So, we've got review
      sign.

[The lights flash. Mike hits a button and the door sequence begins.]

[6 . . . 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .]

[The trio enters and takes their seats.]

Quote
> The Wasp Woman (Cinematic Titanic version)
Quote
> Goodtimes // Unrated //

 Tom: Well, most goodtimes are. Heh, heh, heh.

Quote
>                          August 30, 2005 // Region 0

Mike: I've met Representative Noone, who represents that Region.
      Nice guy. Kind of an empty suit though.

Quote
> List Price: $4.98 [Buy now and save at Eztakes]

 Tom: Ez-Steaks! Food for the cooking challenged!

Quote
> Review by Stuart Galbraith IV | posted September 7, 2008 | E-mail the
> Author | Discuss

Crow: So, are we to discuss e-mailing the author?
Mike: No, I think it's just a general call for discussion. Maybe of
      Finnish poetry.

Quote
>
> Poor Roger Corman.

 Tom: Death Race didn't do so well in release, huh?

Quote
>                    First Retromedia plasters his face across The
>Roger Corman Puerto Rico Trilogy, three public domain titles in eye-
>straining, at times literally out-of-focus transfers,

Crow: Well, it was part of their "Astigmatism Friendly" line of DVDs.
Quote
>                                                      then BCI slaps
>his puss even more prominently on the cover of The Cult Films of Roger
>Corman, a ten-film set of unwatchable transfers that might have been
>mastered in somebody's tool shed.

Mike: Ironically, Corman originally filmed them in a tool shed.
Crow: They still made money though!

Quote
>                                  He had nothing to do with either
>release. Now comes something like the 25th DVD incarnation (no
>foolin') of Corman's The Wasp Woman (1959), about a middle-aged
>cosmetics company president (Susan Cabot) and her search for eternal
>youth.

 Tom: Which somehow lead her to adopt a trio of streetwise runaways,
      a talking dog and a hobo who thinks he's Napoleon...

Quote
>       I requested the title naively hoping this extremely low budget
>but somewhat interesting film might look better than its earlier
>public domain releases, and to some degree it does; while far from
>perfect, it's an entirely watchable presentation. If only.

Crow: Cue the string section and the crying Indian...

>
Quote
>
> Turns out this Wasp Woman has been adapted as a self-described "movie
>riffing show" by a label calling itself Cinematic Titanic.

Mike: I've never heard of this before, and yet I feel that people
      who like me should instinctively hate this.
Crow: Yeah. Like anyone likes you.

Quote
>                                                           It's
>essentially Mystery Science Theater 3000 in all but name,

 Tom: So it's a celebration of all that is good and pure in the
      world then?

Quote
>                                                          as it
>features that program's original cast, also the label's owners: Joel
>Hodgson,

Mike: As "The Other Guy!"

Quote
>         Trace Beaulieu,

Crow: As "The Guy Whose Name Got Pulled Out of a Scrabble Bag!"

Quote
>                         and J. Elvis Weinstein,

 Tom: As "No, The Other J. Weinstein!"

Quote
>                                                 as well as Mary Jo
>Pehl

Crow: Who's the most A-Pehl-ling member of the cast!

Quote
>     and Frank Conniff.

Mike: Who's like a god unto men.
 Tom: Yes, all shall bow down before he who is Frank!

Quote
>
> The format is in all essentials unchanged: As the movie unspools,
>this quintet of would-be comics appear in silhouette at the bottom and
>sides of the screen - not recommended for plasma TV owners; you may be
>permanently burning them into your TV screen!

Mike: Personally, I can't help but think that Two and a Half Men
      might be improved with burned in riffers on the screen.

Quote
>                                              - cracking wise, almost
>non-stop, at the action partially blocked onscreen.

 Tom: As all good cinematographers frame things to focus on the lower
      corners of the screen.

Quote
>                                                    There are
>tasteless jokes about Susan Cabot's real-life murder, every lame
>bee/wasp joke imaginable

Mike: After "SNL" and "Bee Movie", I wouldn't think there'd be any
      left to use.

Quote
>                         ("Music by Sting!" says one performer;

 Tom: But that was an ironic reference to the wrestler's failed
      singing career!

Quote
>"Buzzzzzz!" cries another; "Many, many bees were harmed in the making
>of this movie!" quips a third), and innumerable obvious pop culture
>references, everything from The Andy Griffith Show to Monty Python's
>Flying Circus, which someone quotes at length like a geeky fan.

Crow: Five people, one of whom constantly makes Python references?
      Sound like they're a bag of Cheetos away from being a group
      of D&D players.

Quote
>
> There seems to be no middle ground with shows like this;

Mike: There was a DMZ, but that got destroyed in the great
      "Wonderfalls: Lame or Extra Super Great?" debate of ought 4.

Quote
>                                                          you either
>love 'em or hate 'em.
Quote
>                      DVD Talk's Brian Orndorf is clearly an admirer

Crow: And angels shall descend from the heavens and praise his name.

Quote
>but for this reviewer, setting aside the ethical problems of such
>shows for a moment, it's the cinematic equivalent of having bamboo
>splinters jammed up under the fingernails.

Mike: So it's like "White Chicks" then?

Quote
>                                           I've sat through some
>pretty dire comedies over the years - Joe De Rita's solo two-reelers,
>endless Joe McDoakes shorts, Invasion of the Star Creatures, Loose
>Cannons, Nothing But Trouble (both versions!) - but this was 70-plus
>minutes of sheer agony, utterly mirthless.

 Tom: In fact, it created a zone of "anti-comedy" that turned my
      Marx Brothers DVDs into videos of burning fireplace logs.
Crow: But it was still better than "Disaster Movie!"

Quote
>                                           Despite its brief length it
>took me three days to get through it; even in short doses I thought it
>would never end.

Mike: Have you tried the new movie watching aid, booze?
 Tom: Side effects may include vomiting, headaches and unplanned
      marriages.
Quote
>
> One man's meat is another man's poison, I suppose, but what's so
>clever about sneering at an old movie, rattling off extremely obvious,
>condescending comments at the easy targets onscreen?

Crow: I suppose it's as clever as writing snarky comments about
      movies.

Quote
>                                                     I've watched
>ordinary "civilians" with no show business ambitions effortlessly come
>up with funnier ad-libs than this fivesome's scripted material.*

 Tom: I can just picture him wandering through a gallery muttering,
      "My kid can draw better crap than this."

Quote
>
> It's as if people like Hodgson et.al., lack the talent to create
>their own, original comedy, so instead like parasites they latch onto
>the efforts of others.

Mike: Oh, they're producers.

Quote
>                       People like Hodgson prefer to describe what
>they do as "[riffing] the movies we love," but that's really just a
>euphemism for contempt-laden mockery.
Quote
>                                      Maybe what I find so unfunny
>about a show like this is that while on one hand it's a type of humor
>rooted in an attitude of superiority - We're so much hipper than that
>garbage -

Crow: Well, it's a good thing that you're so much better than those
      philistines then.

Quote
>          yet the unfunny material utterly contradicts that assertion
>because it's on such an anti-creative level.**

 Tom: Oooh! Two starred anti-creativeness! That's "Mama's Family"
      uncreativity!

Quote
>
> The movies that serve as the backdrops for these shows usually are in
>the public domain - if Casablanca or The Wizard of Oz were PD, I
>guarantee you they'd be "riffed," too

Mike: I suppose that's worse than having Joel Schumaker or David Hogan
      make a movie "Inspired by" the original.

Quote
>                                      - and for this reason the
>original creators and/or their heirs do not receive licensing fees,
>nor is their permission required to make fun of their work.

 Tom: ...which would be the definition of public domain.

Quote
>                                                            (To its
>credit, though possibly to avoid legal trouble, Cinematic Titanic
>admits this in a disclaimer up-front.)
Quote
>                                       Some would argue that the
>movies appearing on these shows are lousy anyway, so what difference
>does it make?

 Tom: And some would argue about information being free and then
      we'd be knee deep in talk about Kazaa, DRM and Linux.

Quote
>              But that's not only missing the point it ignores the
>facts that a) often that's not the case - The Wasp Woman, for
>instance, is now generally regarded as a minor but interesting
>programmer, well-made for its budget, with proto-feminist elements -

Mike: Well, it's regarded that way by me and that's what really counts.

Quote
>and b) the vast majority of people working in the world of cheap
>movies were trying their best with the money and time available to
>them.

Crow: Well, since this is being typed on a cheap computer using Wordpad
      obviously it should be held in the same regard as "Hamlet" since
      we're trying.
Mike: Ah. Fourth wall breakage. Just like riding a bike.
 
Quote
>     (Producer Jerry Warren was a notable exception.) Could the folks
>at Cinematic Titanic do better under similar circumstances? Probably
>not.

 Tom: Yeah, they'd probably do some lame horror film about a killer
      fisherman.
Crow: Or a TV show about a wheel.
Mike: Or some cartoon about alien invaders.
Crow: Or a TV show where people get hit in the groin with a football.
Mike: That doesn't help our argument, Crow.
Crow: Oh. Or a TV show about disaffected high schoolers in the 70s?
 Tom: Better.
Mike: Or some lame podcast download site that makes fun of movies.
 Tom: Yeah. Stupid folks.

Quote
>
> Another problem I have with shows like this is that they perpetuate
>unnecessarily negative misperceptions about old movies,

Mike: Such as that some of them suck?

Quote
>                                                        the kind of
>backward thinking that causes some to avoid black and white movies
>because they're not in color, or silent movies because they don't have
>"sound."

Crow: Or Michael Bay films because they lack "plot."

Quote
>         For a while, during MST3K's peak, even less talented
>imitators were encouraged to try their hand at public showings of old
>movies, whether invited to do so or not.

Mike: These people were generally referred to as "dickweeds."

Quote
>                                         Making fun of old movies
>because they don't have exactly the same conventions, technology, and
>visual style of present-day films is truly odious thinking, and a real
>disservice to impressionable viewers (pre-teens are probably a big
>portion of this label's audience)

 Tom: Yes, the pre-teens who weren't alive when the show aired are
      naturally the best audience for this.
Mike: They're who the "Fibber McGee and Molly" DVDs are aimed at too.

Quote
>                                  who, partly thanks to shows like
>these, develop prejudices against old movies generally, except as
>things to be derided.

Crow: It certainly can't be due to people saying, "Hmmm. That guy likes
      it. Do I really want to be associated with him?"

>
Quote
> Video & Audio

Mike: Two things which this misting lacks!

Quote
>
> As mentioned above, if you own a plasma TV, this edition of The Wasp
>Woman is not for you; there's a good chance it'll burn a permanent
>silhouette of the cast on your TV.

Crow: Geez. Where did you buy your TV from? Guatemala?

Quote
>                                   (Me, I'd rather have the CNN logo
>or the "Bilko" on the Sgt. Bilko DVD menu screen.)

 Tom: Well, I never thought that I'd find someone with a Sgt. Bilko
      fetish, but this is the internet...

Quote
>                                                   The movie itself is
>full frame, and a halfway decent print, not that it matters in the
>slightest.

Mike: Because I had my eyes shut and my hands over my ears and was
      singing "La,la,la. I'm not watching!" until the accursed movie
      was over.

Quote
>           If you want to see the movie, not the show - don't buy
>this.

Crow: This advice and more in this week's issue of "Duh!" magazine!

Quote
>      The original film in its original form is not available here. If
>it had been, I might have been inclined to recommend the DVD just for
>that. There are no subtitle or alternate audio options, and no Extra
>features.

 All: Gasp!
Mike: No trailers?
 Tom: No interactive menus?
Crow: No cast and crew bios?
Mike: Not even a scene selection?
 All: Gasp!
Crow: Technically, isn't this considered to be a commentary though?
Mike: Hush.

Quote
>
> Parting Thoughts
>
> The Wasp Woman deserves better. Hell, even Manos, the Hands of Fate
>deserves better.

 Tom: Ooh. Spoken like a man who hasn't seen it. Several dozen times.
      Day after day. Watching it over and over and over....
Crow: He's flashbacking, Mike.
Mike: I got it. Tom! Look! It's Joey Pantoliano!
 Tom: Joey Pants? Where?
Mike: See? Back to normal.

Quote
>                 Skip It.

Crow: Or watch it, if you haven't had your humor surgically removed,
      like our author has.

Quote
>
>
>
>
> * My favorite to this day remains something writer Christopher Potter
>(or maybe Jeff Mortimer)

Mike: Or perhaps it was Mortimer Christopher.
 Tom: Stuart, namedropping only works if we actually know who the hell
      these people are.

Quote
>                         said at an Oscar Party I attended, when
>Sophia Loren came onstage to present an award. "I remember my first
>Oscar..." she started to say, when he continued, "'I was 13, he was
>15.'"
>

Crow: Wow. That certainly puts everything that I've ever said to shame.

Quote
> ** I wrote an anti-Mystery Science Theater 3000 column for The Ann
>Arbor News almost 20 years ago, an article that actually prompted its
>own so-called MSTing, a "riff" still easily accessible on the Net.

 Tom: Yes, the internet. Dredging up your stupid statements from the
      past. FOREVER!

Quote
>Like the TV show its worst offense is that it...just...ain't...funny.

 Tom: This must be an alternate definition of "Funny" that I'm not
      familiar with.
Crow: With which I am not familiar, Tom.
Mike: Crow, you've known Tom longer than I have.
Crow: Nevermind.

Quote
>
>
>
>
> This month Stuart Galbraith IV celebrates his 5th Anniversary at DVD
>Talk. You can read the very first review here.

(They stand to exit.)
Mike: Or, you could read the response to it over here:
 Tom: Let's roll.
Crow: Do you think Stuart's still mad that I told him to bite me?
Mike: Nah. It's been 15 years. No one holds a grudge for that long.
 Tom: Should we do an ending host segment?
Mike: It'd be a better tribute to the first one if we just end with a...



                               \  |  /
                                \ | /
                              --- * ---    PWOOOOSH!
                                / | \
                               /  |  \


Mystery Usenet 3000: "The Wasp Woman (Cinematic Titanic version)"
Written by Stuart Galbraith IV
Misting by Matt Blackwell

"Mystery Science Theater 3000" and related characters and
situations are trademark of and (c) Best Brains, Inc. All
rights reserved.

Use of copyrighted and trademarked material is for non-
commercial parody, review, and commentary purposes only;
no infringement on the original copyrights or trademarks
held by others is intended or should be inferred.

No personal insults to author(s), character(s), or
situation(s) are or should be implied. All characters in
this work are fictional, and any resemblance to actual
people, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

Comments and complaints can be sent to mblackwl@ix.netcom.com

Keep circulating the posts.

9/10/08

Twaaaaang.

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>Like the TV show its worst offense is that it...just...ain't...funny.
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