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Offline ShadowDog

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2008, 07:43:48 PM »
In any event, I hope that Star Trek:Phase II fans that come here to post are treated with more respect than Rifftrax fans have received on the ST:P2 boards.

Word.  Their behavior so far has been disgraceful.

I also agree with Raven and BetterTommorrow.  We keep saying and saying no extra money is being charged for the synced up video.  PERIOD.  You pay the same amount of money if you download the mp3 by itself or if you download the synced video. PERIOD.  So they're not charging for the video!  PERIOD.  How fucking hard is this to understand?  If someone doesn't understand that, they don't WANT to understand it because they have some other agenda. (ie, they're butthurt over being riffed)
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Offline sarcasm_made_Easy

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2008, 08:30:17 PM »
you cant make a LOGICAL argument in a legal setting.  Legal trumps logic everytime. 


Offline ShadowDog

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2008, 10:35:50 PM »
Even if this was a court of law rather than a message board, lawyers use logic to sway jurors every day.  But my point is that the alarmests posting here keep wanting to pretend rifftrax is charging for the video when any reasonable adult can clearly see this is not the case.

Let me put this another way:  If you take any ten reasonable adults of average intelligence and offer them a candy bar all by itself for $1 and then offer them the same sized and type of candy bar encased in a wrapper for $1 and then asked them "Do you think we're charging you for this wrapper?" what would be their answer?

Normal people would respond "Apparently nothing.  Since the price of both is the same, the wrapper must be free."

A lot of Phase 2 fans would apparently respond "I don't know what you're charging for that wrapper, but you MUST be charging something!  What? Oh, I KNOW it's the same price, but I just can't wrap my mind around this!  YOU MUST BE CHARGING SOMETHING FOR THAT WRAPPER!"
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Offline MartyS (Gromit)

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2008, 11:28:18 PM »
I think it needs to be repeated, it's Paramount/CBS that are the concern.  Not the fanboys.

By adding the video Rifftrax is selling a product that has Star Trek images and characters in it.  If the copyright holder (Paramount/CBS) of those images objects it could be a problem.


Offline ShadowDog

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2008, 12:34:33 AM »
No, they aren't selling the video.  Since the video is the same price as audio by itself, it's clear that they're offering the video for free as a courtesy.  Say you buy a ticket to a baseball game.  The employees at the game hand out a Tee Shirt to everyone who walks through the turnstile.  You paid for the ticket to get in so is the Tee Shirt free or not?  In my view the Tee Shirt is free, even though money changed hands for the ticket.

Also, not to get sidetracked here but may I ask why the "Gromit" part of your name is in parenthesis?  I've been posting here long enough now that I'm starting to attach personalities to member names and this one makes your name stand out so now I'm curious.
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Offline MartyS (Gromit)

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2008, 01:18:33 AM »
No, they aren't selling the video.  Since the video is the same price as audio by itself, it's clear that they're offering the video for free as a courtesy.  Say you buy a ticket to a baseball game.  The employees at the game hand out a Tee Shirt to everyone who walks through the turnstile.  You paid for the ticket to get in so is the Tee Shirt free or not?  In my view the Tee Shirt is free, even though money changed hands for the ticket.

If the Tee Shirt was part of a promotion and was used to get people to come to the game it's part of the cost of the baseball team doing business.  And if that Tee had a logo that they used without permission the team would be in trouble. 

This is probably in a grey area between "fair use", "parody" and "copyright infringement"  that it probably wouldn't be worth it for Paramount/CBS to complain about it.

Quote
Also, not to get sidetracked here but may I ask why the "Gromit" part of your name is in parenthesis?  I've been posting here long enough now that I'm starting to attach personalities to member names and this one makes your name stand out so now I'm curious.

http://blog.rifftrax.com/2007/12/14/nicknames-get-yer-nicknames-here/



Offline sarcasm_made_Easy

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2008, 01:25:38 AM »
Quote
Even if this was a court of law rather than a message board, lawyers use logic to sway jurors every day

they also use emotion misdirection, circumstantial evidence and all sorts of other things dont nessicarily have anything to do with logic.  a logical explanation is only usefull in the case that the entire jury is totally rational  (highly unlikely).  why do you think "if the glove doesnt fit you must aquit" was so damned powerful. 


Offline Rude

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2008, 01:42:41 AM »
Quote from: sarcasm_made_Easy
a logical explanation is only usefull in the case that the entire jury is totally rational  (highly unlikely).

This has nothing to do with anything, but: After sitting through a trial myself, i've found that often a lawyer will use so many facts and rational ideas, that he tries to obscure the forrest for the trees.

Now... back to your regularly scheduled thread.

-Rude
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Offline sarcasm_made_Easy

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2008, 01:47:39 AM »
thats true as well.  the point is that they dont care if you know WHY your agreeing with the laywer as long as they vote their way. 


Offline Sheik Yerbouti

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2008, 03:04:20 AM »
As far as I can see, the worst case scenario is that Rifftrax has to pull the mixed audio/video files from the site and just offer the mp3 riff.  You know, like they've been doing with just about everything for almost two years.  Not a big deal.  I would have no problem making the extra effort to download the video from that Trek site, the first one was hilarious.  And that's another thing.  The New Voyages/Phase II/whatever people should be happy about this exposure!  A whole new group of people is getting to see their creations and some of those people might actually enjoy the productions for their own merits.  Not me, but I'm sure some of you out there will.


Offline Bob

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2008, 03:11:26 AM »
As far as I can see, the worst case scenario is that Rifftrax has to pull the mixed audio/video files from the site and just offer the mp3 riff. 

No, THIS is the worst case scenario.



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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2008, 06:22:50 AM »
The way I see it, if the situation were reversed, most folks here would be reacting the same as the folks over there.

Let's say there is a Star Trek fan site out there that decided to start selling reauthored DVD's of the Star Trek Rifftrax.  They don't want to actually make any money off of this, they are just doing it as a service to Trek fans that may find the syncing of Rifftrax too problematic.  Let's say they charge you for a new copy of the original DVD ($9.99), plus the cost of the Rifftrax ($3.99, which they would purchase from Rifftrax every time there was a new order), plus a small shipping fee (let's say $2.00).

So for $15.98 they would buy you a copy of Star Trek 6 on DVD, purchase a copy of the Rifftrax of Star Trek 6 for you, reauthor both onto a DVD for you, and then send you the original DVD, a copy of the Rifftrax MP3, and the reauthored DVD.  They wouldn't be making any money off of this service, since the costs paid are used to purchase the DVD and Rifftrax.

Now with all that said, what do you think the reaction of Rifftrax would be to this "service".

How about this?  What if there was a free service that would make DVD copies of Youtube clips for you?  What if you only had to pay the cost of a blank DVD and the shipping?  You would not be paying for the clips, just the service.  And what if that service was willing to put copies of all the Rifftrax Youtube clips onto a DVD and send it to you for that small fee that just covers material costs and shipping?

What do you think the reaction of Rifftrax to that would be?

For that matter what do you think the reaction of people on this board about either thing would be?

I'm not saying that they (the Star Trek Phase II people) are right and we are wrong, or vice versa.  I'm just saying that we should try to see things from their point of view.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 06:28:36 AM by MontyServo »


Offline mrbasehart

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2008, 06:49:44 AM »
The way I see it, if the situation were reversed, most folks here would be reacting the same as the folks over there.

Let's say there is a Star Trek fan site out there that decided to start selling reauthored DVD's of the Star Trek Rifftrax.  They don't want to actually make any money off of this, they are just doing it as a service to Trek fans that may find the syncing of Rifftrax too problematic.  Let's say they charge you for a new copy of the original DVD ($9.99), plus the cost of the Rifftrax ($3.99, which they would purchase from Rifftrax every time there was a new order), plus a small shipping fee (let's say $2.00).

So for $15.98 they would buy you a copy of Star Trek 6 on DVD, purchase a copy of the Rifftrax of Star Trek 6 for you, reauthor both onto a DVD for you, and then send you the original DVD, a copy of the Rifftrax MP3, and the reauthored DVD.  They wouldn't be making any money off of this service, since the costs paid are used to purchase the DVD and Rifftrax.

I don't know it that's feasible - and I know your point wasn't to make it sound as such - but it does sound like an excellent idea all the same.  They should partner it up with the other NV episode they're riffing next week, too!


Offline ShadowDog

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2008, 07:33:25 AM »
I would have enjoyed your scenario more Monty if PSL hadn't just caused me to tear my eyes out.

Anyway, that's an interesting turning of the tables.  Do you have a parallel for Rifftrax also offering the MP3 separate from the video?
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Offline Nunyerbiz

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Re: star trek phase2 reception
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2008, 09:48:47 AM »
I would have enjoyed your scenario more Monty if PSL hadn't just caused me to tear my eyes out.

Anyway, that's an interesting turning of the tables.  Do you have a parallel for Rifftrax also offering the MP3 separate from the video?

I dont know if you need a parallel... Just because they offer the audio seperately doesn't preclude the fact that they are offering a version with the video as well. Anyways, I would have to imagine that Rifftrax / Legend / whoever has legal people on their payroll... Seeing that they have gone this far, they must have got the legal green light on their side. That said, I don't see how you can take copyrighted work, modify the audio and then offer it for sale on your own... but of course, I am no lawyer.

This is the first I've heard of these Phase 2 guys or whatever they call themselves... but if I understand this correctly, and that they are just fans doing this stuff for pure enjoyment and for no monetary gain... I think it's an asshole move to rip them via Rifftrax and walk away with a tidy profit. Fucking bush league man.... At least the riff subjects up til now have been aimed at purely commercial interests. (Maybe the makers behind this stuff have a sense of humor and dont mind... or maybe they do... I don't claim to be 100% in-the-know... just on the surface... this doesn't sit right with me)