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Considering the era in which the movie was made, could America have been invaded?

No!
11 (40.7%)
Yes!
1 (3.7%)
Maybe
3 (11.1%)
Cold War Propaganda
9 (33.3%)
Only if all the things the movie lists as happening happened
2 (7.4%)
Who cares, it's a cool movie what-if
1 (3.7%)

Total Members Voted: 25


Author Topic: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?  (Read 2335 times)

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Offline bettertomorrowamy

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Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« on: November 12, 2007, 12:45:13 PM »
Putting aside what we know now about the eventual outcome of the Cold War, I still have to say there is no way Cubans and Russians could have invaded the US.  Or wanted to invade the US.

Is there too much political baggage with this movie for it to be riffed?

By the way, I like the movie.  I like what-if scenarios like this.
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Offline Phantom of Krankor

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 01:00:00 PM »
I like these "what if" scenarios which is why I like Red Dawn so much. I think that if the Soviet Union never collapsed, we would have gone to war with them by now. I doubt Cuba would do that much in the invasion, because its likely they would have tried to gain control over the whole Caribbean by invading every country island there before ever attacking the USA. They'd probably be too exhausted and would need a couple of years. I also have a feeling that Russia would use another country as its puppet to attack the USA so even if America won, they'd be exhausted by the time Russia would invade to try to finnish us off. Very fascinating to think about!

Its also gotten kind of interesting lately with the rising tensions between Vladamir Putin and Geroge Bush. 
I am Ambassador Phantom, from the planet Krankor! I am rapidly approaching your planet... in the warship, which you have just seen. I will arrive tomorrow night at precisely eight o'clock. At that time I shall make my wishes known to you. You will obey them... or die! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!


Offline mrbasehart

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 01:09:52 PM »
There was a pretty decent game that came out for Xbox called Freedom Fighters, which took the premise of the Soviet Union basically occupying the US.  It ended with much waving of flags, if I remember correctly.


Offline Big Blonde

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 01:38:39 PM »
Eh, even if the Soviet Union had never broken up, I doubt they would have invaded by now. The were clearly lagging in the arms race and would have never had the military capabilities to pull of a successful invasion. Besides, even if they even tried that suicide mission, the US has the backing of NATO and all the USSR had was the poor, dissillusioned countries in Eastern Europe. I don't even think Putin would try an invasion, but that would just make no sense for him to do. He's too busy giving little boys butterfly kisses on their stomachs and fly fishing without a shirt.
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Offline DarthSeaBass

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2007, 01:52:56 PM »
All cuba would be was a staging post at best surely?


Offline Chaos

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 02:53:26 PM »
Let me preface my statement very clearly upfront here, by saying in bold that I am not talking about the soldiers here, I am talking about the people in command.

I do not think the US army is prepared to deal with a massive invasion of its home territory. A carefully planned and strategic series of attacks from both the inside and the outside could easily weaken its defenses and make it vulnerable to wide-scale conflict. Most countries are not as prepared as they think to deal with threats against their own soil.

Certainly, there would be horrible, nuclear retaliation for such an act... but the damage at that point would already be done and a nuclear counter-strike would only further escalate the conflict globally. If a country REALLY wanted to do it and didn't care about the consequences, it could happen.

Again, I am not saying that the soldiers are ill-trained or that they are not capable of defending the US (because I am a strong supporter of them and what they do for their country)... I just don't think the government or the military are organized enough to deal with a true crisis (as events like 9/11 and Katrina have blatantly shown us).

This is why small, hotbed countries like Iran or North Korea are so potentially terrifying... because of what they might be willing to do, and what the results of that could be. Movies like Red Dawn are an exploration of similar, theoretical possibilities for our future (or are future from that time, anyway). There's a reason this kind of stuff scares the crap out of some people. :)
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Offline Big Blonde

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2007, 04:31:05 PM »
I agree with what you say up to point. It's true that I don't think we're prepared for a full scale invasion, mostly because we haven't had a war on our soil since the 1800s. It's also true that countries like Iran and North Korea (though less so now because I believe they agreed to deactivate their nuclear program) do pose a problem to global security.  But I don't think either of these countries have the capabilities of launching a full scale attack on the US. North Korea doesn't have the man power to do such a thing, especially since most of its population is starving. Ahmadinejad is certainly crazy enough, but again he doesn't have the man power or the technology to do something like that. Even if by some small chance that someone does invade, it seems like it would be a huge failure. The US is so big compared to other countries, it would be extremely difficult to take over the entire nation.


(I love how a movie starring lots of 80s cheese can lead to a serious debate on international politics.  :P)
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Milan Kundera


Offline eclipt1c

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2007, 04:40:16 PM »
Ahmadinejad is certainly crazy enough, but again he doesn't have the man power

Or any power whatsoever.  He's a 'president' but the religious governmental institutions have all of the real power.  So important descisions like this would go through them, which they would not support.  Why risk the destruction of your country and religious ideal you spent time developing after a revolution when you could just fund terrorism and surrogate countries to go to war with the US.  Which then directly parallels Russia and the US, fund other countries like Vietnam or Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran and let them do your dirty work.  Also, the people in the Soviet Union knew the government was weaking from trying to keep up with the US, thus they started to put pressure on the government for reforms and started doing things openly which they did exclusively underground before.  Also, unlike the US the Russian citizens wouldn't have been duped into going to war with the US, they didn't believe in it, whereas the US citizenry actually believes in what their country stands for. 

On another note, if an invasion did happen I think it would have gone like Invasion USA, with magicians, alcohol, groping, and "cubs".
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Offline Chaos

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2007, 08:18:52 PM »
One country most likely, indeed, would not be able to "take down" America... however, one ATTACK might be enough to convince other extremist groups or countries to launch their own initiatives while America is trying to deal with and recuperate from the original assault. I'm not saying it's likely, I'm just saying it's a possibility. There are a lot of countries out there who, for one reason or another, don't like America, and might jump at the chance to take advantage if they saw a real weakness or opening. It's not pretty... but it's the truth.
"First there was Chaos, the vast immeasurable abyss, Outrageous as a sea, dark, wasteful, wild." -Milton


Offline Chaos

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2007, 08:40:34 PM »
Here's an article you probably won't be seeing in many U.S. papers to help illustrate my point about preparedness:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

 :speechless:
"First there was Chaos, the vast immeasurable abyss, Outrageous as a sea, dark, wasteful, wild." -Milton


Offline graboids

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 08:24:49 AM »
Has anyone bought the special edition DVD?   If so, how is it?


Offline Dim of the Yard

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 08:42:11 AM »
I cast my vote for "Cold War Propoganda," and immediately after I was shown the results, my laptop bluescreened.  It's clearly a sign.  I'm unofficially changing my vote to "YES!"


Offline Tripe

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 10:07:39 AM »
Could the occupation be so inept? Hardly likely

Would there need to be a coalition to take down as geographically vast a country as the US? Pretty likely.

Was the situation ever really a likely one in the first place? Not really no.

What was that minseries where the Russians used a couple of high altitude nuclear explosions to take down the defense grid?

That one might work, except the systems are protected from EM pulses.


Offline bettertomorrowamy

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2007, 10:26:20 AM »
Nobody wants to tackle the bigger issue here:

Is this movie too politically polarizing to be successfully riffed?
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Offline Tripe

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Re: Red Dawn: Could it have happened that way?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2007, 10:28:28 AM »
Nah red scare propaganda even if it's from the eighties is on par with that hygiene and grooming short and other of their ilk.