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Author Topic: Completely Random Thoughts  (Read 1805619 times)

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Offline Pastor of Muppets

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19020 on: December 05, 2017, 09:45:55 AM »
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness so I know very little about Christmas songs. But from what I'm reading, it sounds like a song I really don't want to know about.

It's a perfectly innocent song, like Puff the Magic Dragon, ascribed sinister undertones by cynics.  You could listen to it, but your opinion has probably already been contaminated.  You probably have heard it if you've been in public in December.
I'm not particularly religious, and I don't really like Muppets, but I do love word play.


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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19021 on: December 05, 2017, 09:48:46 AM »
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness so I know very little about Christmas songs. But from what I'm reading, it sounds like a song I really don't want to know about.

It's not THAT bad. A man and a woman are at the man's place, and it's really cold outside, and the man has decided to use that to convince her to stay the night. Kind of like "Let it Snow" but a little bit skeevier. The line that raises people's eyebrows is when the woman sings, "Say, what's in this drink?" which I'm pretty sure is her saying, "This is pretty good. Maybe I could stick around." but also reads as, "Did you slip me a roofie?"


Offline Russoguru

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19022 on: December 05, 2017, 10:19:51 AM »
Ohhhhh okay. Yeah I can see how that can be easily misconstrued as being pretty suggestive.


Offline RVR II

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19023 on: December 05, 2017, 01:55:11 PM »
The weird neighbors across the street were evicted today.
They have been living there for several years but for the last couple years there's been shady characters coming and going like it had become drug house. The guy has a wife and 2 daughters and would send the girls outside when these people showed up and they would leave within 5 minutes like it was a drive thru operation.
The last few months I noticed city trucks making stops over there for some odd reason but never seemed to do anything..
Then today the constable and property owners showed up with an eviction notice kicking them out today and now there's this mountain of their stuff outside in the driveway..
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Haven't seen the girls at all so I'm assuming they are with family members while the eviction was going on.. They've made little progress in trying to move their stuff last few hours and rain is moving in tonight..
I'll be glad to see them gone as the drug traffic will finally be gone now but I don't know what the wife sees in that loser of hers to get their asses kicked to the curb like this ???
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 01:59:57 PM by RVR II »


Offline Russoguru

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19024 on: December 05, 2017, 02:12:03 PM »
I don't know what to say but... DAMN.


Offline Edward J Grug III

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19025 on: December 05, 2017, 05:16:34 PM »
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness so I know very little about Christmas songs. But from what I'm reading, it sounds like a song I really don't want to know about.

It's not THAT bad. A man and a woman are at the man's place, and it's really cold outside, and the man has decided to use that to convince her to stay the night. Kind of like "Let it Snow" but a little bit skeevier. The line that raises people's eyebrows is when the woman sings, "Say, what's in this drink?" which I'm pretty sure is her saying, "This is pretty good. Maybe I could stick around." but also reads as, "Did you slip me a roofie?"

The original score sheet for the song identifies them as 'mouse' and 'wolf,' so I'm not convinced it's all conjecture at all.
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Offline LucasM

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19026 on: December 05, 2017, 06:41:52 PM »
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness so I know very little about Christmas songs. But from what I'm reading, it sounds like a song I really don't want to know about.

It's not THAT bad. A man and a woman are at the man's place, and it's really cold outside, and the man has decided to use that to convince her to stay the night. Kind of like "Let it Snow" but a little bit skeevier. The line that raises people's eyebrows is when the woman sings, "Say, what's in this drink?" which I'm pretty sure is her saying, "This is pretty good. Maybe I could stick around." but also reads as, "Did you slip me a roofie?"

The original score sheet for the song identifies them as 'mouse' and 'wolf,' so I'm not convinced it's all conjecture at all.

I just read parts of the Wikipedia entry on it, and it states, "'What's in this drink?' was a common idiom of the period used to rebuke social expectations by blaming one's actions on the influence of alcohol."

Though the characters being designated 'wolf' and 'mouse', it definitely pushes it more into creepy territory.  But I'm not sure of the potential interpretations, because it was written by a husband and wife.  How disturbing it was intended may partly depend on their relationship with one-another.  They apparently thought that it was OK or funny to have such an intense predatory relationship clearly delineated.  It was also written in the '40s, when that was not considered as globally offensive as it is now, in fact, it was thought to be amusing, e.g. take Tex Avery's sexually-harassing cartoon wolf (though, for instance, Red Riding Hood was hardly a 'mouse').

Another level of interpretation to it - which might have crossed their minds if they were thinking of it as the man drugging the woman - is that the "outside" may not be referring to outside the house or apartment.  It might have been intended as a 'sly' double-entendre for his genitals being 'cold' outside hers.  [Such highly sexual double-entendres aren't unusual in music.  In modern times, "Turning Japanese", "She Bop", etc.  And in the '40s, they worked hard to bypass the film censors (the tune shortly found its way into film.]  (Having worked as a therapist with so many sexual abuse survivors, the automatic finding such meanings to things 'not quite said' tends to happen without too much effort if 'aimed' in that direction, as this conversation has done for me with this song.  In neither therapy, nor here, is the assumption ever made that these possible interpretations are correct, however.)

But with the massive number of sex offenses being brought to light in the news starting in earnest after our predator-in-chief's "grab their pu$$ies" comment, it would just be courteous to avoid the potential for agitating or triggering people with it.  I mean, there are dozens of non-sexually-predatory Christmas tunes out there (not necessarily modern, but there are modern covers of virtually all of the multitude of tunes), it wouldn't be too hard to eliminate that one.


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« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 06:52:32 PM by LucasM »
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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19027 on: December 05, 2017, 06:48:25 PM »
Would the Annie Lennox/Al Green version of Put A Little Love In Your Heart count as a Christmas tune?


Offline goflyblind

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19028 on: December 05, 2017, 07:58:48 PM »
Would the Annie Lennox/Al Green version of Put A Little Love In Your Heart count as a Christmas tune?

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Offline Imrahil

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19029 on: December 05, 2017, 10:39:14 PM »
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness so I know very little about Christmas songs. But from what I'm reading, it sounds like a song I really don't want to know about.

It's not THAT bad. A man and a woman are at the man's place, and it's really cold outside, and the man has decided to use that to convince her to stay the night. Kind of like "Let it Snow" but a little bit skeevier. The line that raises people's eyebrows is when the woman sings, "Say, what's in this drink?" which I'm pretty sure is her saying, "This is pretty good. Maybe I could stick around." but also reads as, "Did you slip me a roofie?"

The original score sheet for the song identifies them as 'mouse' and 'wolf,' so I'm not convinced it's all conjecture at all.

I just read parts of the Wikipedia entry on it, and it states, "'What's in this drink?' was a common idiom of the period used to rebuke social expectations by blaming one's actions on the influence of alcohol."

Though the characters being designated 'wolf' and 'mouse', it definitely pushes it more into creepy territory.  But I'm not sure of the potential interpretations, because it was written by a husband and wife.  How disturbing it was intended may partly depend on their relationship with one-another.  They apparently thought that it was OK or funny to have such an intense predatory relationship clearly delineated.  It was also written in the '40s, when that was not considered as globally offensive as it is now, in fact, it was thought to be amusing, e.g. take Tex Avery's sexually-harassing cartoon wolf (though, for instance, Red Riding Hood was hardly a 'mouse').

Another level of interpretation to it - which might have crossed their minds if they were thinking of it as the man drugging the woman - is that the "outside" may not be referring to outside the house or apartment.  It might have been intended as a 'sly' double-entendre for his genitals being 'cold' outside hers.  [Such highly sexual double-entendres aren't unusual in music.  In modern times, "Turning Japanese", "She Bop", etc.  And in the '40s, they worked hard to bypass the film censors (the tune shortly found its way into film.]  (Having worked as a therapist with so many sexual abuse survivors, the automatic finding such meanings to things 'not quite said' tends to happen without too much effort if 'aimed' in that direction, as this conversation has done for me with this song.  In neither therapy, nor here, is the assumption ever made that these possible interpretations are correct, however.)

"Santa Claus got Stuck in my Chimney" is another one that's pretty blatantly suggestive.


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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19031 on: December 06, 2017, 09:53:53 PM »
At the end of my kid's kindy Christmas concert, they presented certificates and read a little interview they’d done with each of the kids.

For ‘what do you want to be when you grow up?’ 4/5 of the kids said they were gonna be police officers.

My son said 'a vampire.'

So, I'm doing something right.
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Offline Pastor of Muppets

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19032 on: December 07, 2017, 04:52:06 AM »
But with the massive number of sex offenses being brought to light in the news starting in earnest after our predator-in-chief's "grab their pu$$ies" comment, it would just be courteous to avoid the potential for agitating or triggering people with it.  I mean, there are dozens of non-sexually-predatory Christmas tunes out there (not necessarily modern, but there are modern covers of virtually all of the multitude of tunes), it wouldn't be too hard to eliminate that one.

A lot of people get triggered by a lot of things.  I disagree with the idea that everyone needs to walk on eggshells all the time to avoid triggering some other person or group of people.  "Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" might bother people who have lost loved ones to automobile accidents.  Police procedural shows about murders bother surviving loved ones of murder victims. 

Again, it isn't the fault of the people performing or playing that song that some people choose to infer sinister meaning.  Things trigger me too, but the difference is that I have to deal with it because nobody gives a shit about me.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:53:45 AM by Retro Muppet Pastor »
I'm not particularly religious, and I don't really like Muppets, but I do love word play.


Offline Russoguru

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19033 on: December 07, 2017, 10:29:10 AM »
I just ordered a shirt for Dodger's coffee company the other day, I can't wait to get it.  ;D Dodger is awesome.


Offline LucasM

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Re: Completely Random Thoughts
« Reply #19034 on: December 07, 2017, 01:23:20 PM »
But with the massive number of sex offenses being brought to light in the news starting in earnest after our predator-in-chief's "grab their pu$$ies" comment, it would just be courteous to avoid the potential for agitating or triggering people with it.  I mean, there are dozens of non-sexually-predatory Christmas tunes out there (not necessarily modern, but there are modern covers of virtually all of the multitude of tunes), it wouldn't be too hard to eliminate that one.

A lot of people get triggered by a lot of things.  I disagree with the idea that everyone needs to walk on eggshells all the time to avoid triggering some other person or group of people.  "Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" might bother people who have lost loved ones to automobile accidents.  Police procedural shows about murders bother surviving loved ones of murder victims. 

Again, it isn't the fault of the people performing or playing that song that some people choose to infer sinister meaning.  Things trigger me too, but the difference is that I have to deal with it because nobody gives a shit about me.

It is not a matter of triggering people, it is a matter of presenting predatory sexual behavior as cute and entertainment... and, well, 'acceptable'.

But I was thinking of it in terms of at least a temporary avoidance of playing it.  Particularly with the #metoo movement being such a strong cultural influence it was Time Magazine's 'Person of the Year' for instance.  Just as the Buffy the Vampire episode with a high school kid with a rifle in a tower was delayed in airing following a real high school event in which a kid with a rifle shot people from a tower in a high school, and just as Marvel/Netflix's show The Punisher was delayed in airing because of the Las Vegas shootings.

Whether it is determined later to be 'OK' is a decision for later.  But if it is seen as predatory by a majority, then I think it would be best if it were relegated to 'Of Historic Interest' status, much like Warner's Studios presents some old Bugs Bunny cartoons with a preface "this contains stereotypes that are wrong now, and were wrong then, but to hide them would not be true to history" or something to that effect.
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