I know every one says Star Trek V is bad and all.

[daltysmilth]

Yeah, I was disappointed that they didn't overhaul all the Trek movies' sfx like they did the first one. Imagine how much more kickass Wrath Of Khan would be with state of the art CGI? They could even digitally put a t-shirt over Ricardo Montalban's glistening pectorals.

Why on earth would they want to do that?

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I was disappointed that they didn't overhaul all the Trek movies' sfx like they did the first one. Imagine how much more kickass Wrath Of Khan would be with state of the art CGI? They could even digitally put a t-shirt over Ricardo Montalban's glistening pectorals.

Why on earth would they want to do that?

Seriously.  Who doesn't love to see all of that rich, Corinthian leather?

[Sharktopus]

Yeah, I was disappointed that they didn't overhaul all the Trek movies' sfx like they did the first one. Imagine how much more kickass Wrath Of Khan would be with state of the art CGI? They could even digitally put a t-shirt over Ricardo Montalban's glistening pectorals.

Why on earth would they want to do that?

Seriously.  Who doesn't love to see all of that rich, Corinthian leather?

"Joo know joo want me, baby."

[daltysmilth]

Okay, here's the rundown of how I rate Star Treks 1-6 from favorite to least favorite.

1. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
2. Star Trek II:  The Wrath of Khan
3. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
4. Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
5. Star Trek V:  The Final Frontier
6. Star Trek:     The Motion Picture

[Msampo]

I still think the Motion Picture is the worst overall.  Although Insurrection wasn't that much better.  But at least stuff happens in Insurrection.  Here's a breakdown of every single scene from ST:TMP:

(Interminable series of admittedly breathtaking and really well-done 2001: A Space Oddyssey-type special effects shots that last for upwards of ten minutes.)

(Cut to: reaction shots of Kirk and the dad from 7th Heaven.)

(Cut to more unnecessarily long stretches of special effects.)

(Cut to reaction shot of Uhura and Checkov.)

(Cut to fifteen more minutes of special effects that I hope ILM got paid a whole lot for, because they really are well done, even though they last for unnecessarily long stretches of time.)

(Cut to shot of McCoy.  McCoy says:)

MCCOY:  My God.  I've never seen anything like this.

(And then no other character has any more lines of dialogue for another half-hour.)

Yeah, seen today, the endless fly-around of the new Enterprise and all the other long periods of people just staring seem pointless. And they are. But they need to be seen in the context the movie was released into. This was trekkie/er's first real look at their world (not counting the animated series and other ephemera) since the show went off the air. The snail's pace editing and the "and it goes on like this" visuals were meant, I think, to let the fans luxuriate in their obsession for a good long while. And I think a lot of fans did in fact come out of that movie with the sated feeling that the filmmakers were going for. Only in retrospect (and in comparison with the much-better-paced ST2) did the original start to seem bloated and dull.

I'm not defending the original. It's (mostly) awful. Just offering some context.

Sampo

[daltysmilth]

Actually, I think Robert Wise said the reason it's the way it is is because 1. It was taking ILM a REALLY long time to produce the special effects so that they didn't have time to edit them down, and 2. the effects shots that they were producing were so good-looking and so much effort had been put into them that he didn't feel right cutting any of them out, or even cutting them down.

[Msampo]

Actually, I think Robert Wise said the reason it's the way it is is because 1. It was taking ILM a REALLY long time to produce the special effects so that they didn't have time to edit them down, and 2. the effects shots that they were producing were so good-looking and so much effort had been put into them that he didn't feel right cutting any of them out, or even cutting them down.

No doubt true. But isn't my theory a better rationalization? 

Sampo

[Sharktopus]

Okay, here's the rundown of how I rate Star Treks 1-6 from favorite to least favorite.

1. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
2. Star Trek II:  The Wrath of Khan
3. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
4. Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
5. Star Trek V:  The Final Frontier
6. Star Trek:     The Motion Picture

I'll never understand how the same people who love ST IV hate ST V. "Voyage Home is funny, but Final Frontier sucks." They're both goofy as hell, and how is going back in time to the 1980s any less stupid than searching for God?

My list (Based simply on which movie I'd rather watch, not which is better):

1. ST II: Wrath Of Khan (natch)
2. ST VI: Undiscovered Country
3. ST IV: Voyage Home
4. ST V: Final Frontier (At least before RiffTrax. I'm pretty burned out on STV now.)
5. ST: The Motion Picture
6: ST III: Search For Spock (Just never liked it.)

And if you want to include Next Gen movies, stick First Contact at #3 and pretty much burn the rest. Now give me a DS9 movie! Yeah, right. That'll happen. 

[mrbasehart]

And if you want to include Next Gen movies, stick First Contact at #3 and pretty much burn the rest. Now give me a DS9 movie! Yeah, right. That'll happen.

I wish they would.  Even just a TV movie.  A big ass Dominion invasion, with a proper fight this time.

[Sharktopus]

And if you want to include Next Gen movies, stick First Contact at #3 and pretty much burn the rest. Now give me a DS9 movie! Yeah, right. That'll happen.

I wish they would.  Even just a TV movie.  A big ass Dominion invasion, with a proper fight this time.

Hells yeah! DS9 fans unite! (All five of us.) Do you think they'd have to unkill (or whatever) Sisko to do a proper movie, or could he just influence things from the celestial temple?

[mrbasehart]

Hells yeah! DS9 fans unite! (All five of us.) Do you think they'd have to unkill (or whatever) Sisko to do a proper movie, or could he just influence things from the celestial temple?

Absolutely.  He becomes Sisko the Fuckin' White! 

I always thought Avery Brooks was great in that series, especially the episode where he implicates the Romulan's in the bombing of a Dominion ship to bring them into the war.

Huh.  I didn't know how much I knew about DS9 until now...

[Sharktopus]

Hells yeah! DS9 fans unite! (All five of us.) Do you think they'd have to unkill (or whatever) Sisko to do a proper movie, or could he just influence things from the celestial temple?

Absolutely.  He becomes Sisko the Fuckin' White!

 

Benjamin? Benjamin. Yes, that was they called me. Benjamin the Captain. I am Benjamin the Emissary. (I'm such a geek.)

I always thought Avery Brooks was great in that series, especially the episode where he implicates the Romulan's in the bombing of a Dominion ship to bring them into the war.

Huh.  I didn't know how much I knew about DS9 until now...

I don't think he was actually complicit in that. As I recall, it was section 39 that planted the bomb on the Romulan ambasador's ship and framed the Dominion. Sisko was glad to have the Romulans enter the war, though. (Yup. Huge geek.)

[daltysmilth]

I'll never understand how the same people who love ST IV hate ST V. "Voyage Home is funny, but Final Frontier sucks." They're both goofy as hell, and how is going back in time to the 1980s any less stupid than searching for God?

My list (Based simply on which movie I'd rather watch, not which is better):

1. ST II: Wrath Of Khan (natch)
2. ST VI: Undiscovered Country
3. ST IV: Voyage Home
4. ST V: Final Frontier (At least before RiffTrax. I'm pretty burned out on STV now.)
5. ST: The Motion Picture
6: ST III: Search For Spock (Just never liked it.)

And if you want to include Next Gen movies, stick First Contact at #3 and pretty much burn the rest. Now give me a DS9 movie! Yeah, right. That'll happen. 
[/quote]

I never said I didn't like Star Trek V.  I like it quite a lot, actually.  It's just that it's not as good as III or VI.  But it's definitely better than, say Nemesis, and slightly better than Insurrection.  Though it's probably on fairly equal footing with Generations, and it's not as good as First Contact.  And let's face it, the worst Star Trek movie is still billions of times better than the best Rob Schneider movie.  (Not that I'm saying there's such a thing as a GOOD Rob Schneider movie, but chances are that at least ONE of them is slightly less horrible than the rest of them.)  And Star Trek V has some of the best character moments in all of the movies.  Say what you want about Shatner, but in his Star Trek movie, he let all of the supporting cast get their chance to shine.  And it has one of Spock's best moments in the series -- the part when the Klingon General is reluctant to help Kirk, saying he's just a foolish old man, and Spock says "Damn you, sir.  You will try."  Or the part with McCoy's flashback to his father's death.  I tell you, DeForest Kelly was the unsung hero of that cast.

[Winterkid]

Deforest Kelly was a great actor and would be still if he were alive.  *Nod*  He brought the role of "Bones" McCoy to life.  Nimoy and Shatner are great actors too, Shatner himself had done shakespearean roles in his youth if I remember right.  The reason they didn't put their all into the roles is because Roddenberry pretty much tailor-made their roles for them, with the exception of Spock, who was made to be acted rather listlessly.  (Hey, we have a new role for Jake Lloyd!)

Gotta love writers who write for people's personality and discourage all that troublesome "acting" we hear so much about.

[Sharktopus]

Ever see White Comache, starring the Shat as half-Native American twin brothers? He acted the hell out of that movie.