Author Topic: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!  (Read 1475040 times)

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Offline Lembach

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15090 on: April 28, 2013, 02:49:06 PM »
yeah you're right she is lovely

Shouldn't have said anything.  So what if shes a hipster?  Shes a good person and intelligent.  I'm ashamed of myself

I feel bad about my initial internal opinions too, if that helps.  :-[

Is it okay if I still hate the vegan and the breeder, though?


Offline Tripe

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15091 on: April 28, 2013, 02:53:30 PM »
yeah you're right she is lovely

Shouldn't have said anything.  So what if shes a hipster?  Shes a good person and intelligent.  I'm ashamed of myself
Oh don't feel bad, I'm simply automatically positive about hipster girls. :)


Offline Tripe

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15092 on: April 28, 2013, 03:14:19 PM »
I think if you add "graph" after it, you'll see where I'm going. ;)


Offline Lembach

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15093 on: April 28, 2013, 10:06:51 PM »
Herr Doktor (she's Swiss) decided to put me on Hydroxyzine (Vistaril), and Sertraline (Zoloft) for my anxiety. Never, ever, taken any sort of psychological medication before. Any idea of what to expect?


Offline Mrs. Dick Courier

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15094 on: April 28, 2013, 11:52:22 PM »
Took generic Vistiril for a while along with the Cymbalta mostly for nervous itching   Doc took me off because I had gained a lot of weight.  I did start losing weight after I went off it and it was easy to quit.  Unlike the friggin Cymbalta.  Started taking half pills again and feel better didn't have one palpitation today.  Cold turkey was a mistake.  Slow and steady wins the race.

Never took Zoloft but my older cousin does and she has no issues.  Thinking of asking my doc if it would be right for me.

I don't know if Zoloft is time release but its important to take them at the same time every day usually in the morning.  May take a while before you feel the effects.  Its good that you have a therapist to monitor your progress  Remember feeling sick to my stomach and a bit dizzy when I started the Cymbalta.
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Offline LucasM

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15095 on: April 29, 2013, 12:24:15 AM »
Herr Doktor (she's Swiss) decided to put me on Hydroxyzine (Vistaril), and Sertraline (Zoloft) for my anxiety. Never, ever, taken any sort of psychological medication before. Any idea of what to expect?

DISCLAIMER: This is not - under any circumstances - meant to replace the recommendations of your doctor.  It is merely some additional information to help you think about and participate in your medical treatment, not to replace it.  Do not make ANY changes to what you are already taking without discussing it with your doctor first!


That said, I'll over-extend myself because this is important; and because while I hope it is interesting and informative to you, hopefully it'll help anyone else who reads it who may have a similar experience in the future.  [My choice to over-extend myself: do not feel guilty for it, it is my choice and any results are 100% my responsibility (as the results of my actions always are).]


I'm not that familiar with Vistaril (or, to be clearer: I'd never heard of it til your post; likely a pharmaceutical released in the last 14-15 years or so, since I last worked).  [I did some brief reading on it before writing.]  Since Zoloft was around 'back in my day', I can tell you a little about it.

With Zoloft, to begin with, for the first 10 days to two weeks or so you may actually feel more anxious.  Because, contrary to what doctors (and virtually everyone else) says, the cellular biology of the brain that reacts to 'more serotonin' causes anxiety (that connection is likely why it is being prescribed), not an uplifted mood.  It takes cells 'OD'ing on a neurotransmitter about 10 days to two weeks to shut down receptor sites on the uptaking neurons.  So, ultimately, consistently flooding the synapse with extra neurotransmitter results in a net DECREASE in what the receiving cells take up.

With Prozac, Zoloft, etc., it is two weeks after starting that people start to get the antidepressant effects, and, as is anticipated for you, anti-anxiety effects.  (Though I've seen nothing written to that effect, it seems likely that its long-term usefulness as an anxiolytic for you may be in direct proportion to how much extra anxiety you feel peaking at about 5-10 days or so.)  [Apparently most people prescribing it (and discussing it) apparently didn't take Physiopsychology/Biopsychology graduate level classes to understand the mechanism of neuronal receptor shutdown, so they think "reuptake inhibitor?  OK, that means that 'not enough serotonin' causes depression."  The description I gave of how serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (like Zoloft) work is likely 'more correct', unless by some bizarre fluke in the brain, those cells that receive serotonin transmissions don't have the capacity to shut off receptors or don't act like most every other neuron in the brain.  (In all the time I was studying this stuff, the profs never said there were any exceptions to the receptor sites closing off with too much transmitter present, so I kinda' doubt that.  ...Besides, the 10 day to two week time frame is too similar to be anything but receptor sites shutting down somewhere downstream of serotonin receptors.)]

Even though it may be 10 days to two weeks before you start to feel the effects, it may take 4-6 weeks or more before your body actually stabilizes on a dose.  This is because of the domino effect: each neurotransmitter system 'downstream' of one using serotonin has to go through the same adjustment, either to an increase or decrease in the neuronal transmissions it receives.  With any increase in dose, it will take another 4-6 weeks to adjust to that.  But decreasing doses may take far longer to fully normalize from, depending on your system and how long you'd taken it (the longer someone takes something, the longer it takes to normalize again when weaned off).  Never, under any circumstances, if a medication says, "do not stop this medication without discussing it with your physician," and if one has taken a psychoactive med long enough to get used to it, should anyone go cold turkey on whatever it may be.  [Apologies to Mrs. Dick Courier for not being able to write more when you were talking about your experience recently.]



I am sorry to say, I do have a strong reservation about what is happening, as a scientist (that you were prescribed two things to start at the same time).  Classic scientific method says that you change only ONE thing at a time in any experiment.  [And, sad to say, modern pharmacological treatment of the brain is an experiment, as each brain functions and reacts to meds differently.]  In an experiment, if you change more than one thing at a time, you can never tell which thing had the effects you will then see (or if it was from an interaction between them).  Prescribe two things and you improve?  OK: which one did it?  If you improved, you can't take the chance of taking either away without significant withdrawal effects potentially over long periods of time making you feel like hell, so you're stuck with indefinitely taking both regardless of whether both are helping.  And let's say you improved some, but some of the side-effects were unbearable.  So: which med did the improvement come from?  Which one's side-effects were problematic?  Was the improvement - or the side-effects - from an interaction of the combined medications with your particular biochemistry?  There would simply no way to tell at that point unless you wean off of both, wait for your brain chemistry to stabilize (possibly months), then try the meds again, one at a time.  Better to do it that way from the beginning.

In addition to 'confounding variables', you chemically stress the brain and body if you are taking more medications than what you need, and potentially ones that may give you no benefit, so nothing but negative side-effects.  With anxiety disorders, your body is already stressed.  It doesn't need more.


My approach, always, with clients (and when consulting with their psychiatrists) was to suggest starting with the most urgently-needed medication first - the one thought most likely to give the best response.  This was what was done for me by the head-injury-specializing psychiatrist who ultimately found the proper medication assortment for me: try one, wait for its effects, and wait for my body to get used to it, then try the next.  If the next made things worse, it could be dropped without disturbing the first; if it made things better, it could be added and once I stabilized on it, we might try a third, and so on.  That was how I knew that my psychiatrist was exceptional.


Before getting well underway with the two meds, maybe ask your psychiatrist if it would be possible to start with the one she thinks is most needed first, and wait to get used to it before adding more.  Particularly with (having looked up vistaril) the possibility of drowsiness from it.  Drowsiness from Zoloft is, unfortuantely, a given until one gets used to it, and sometimes after one gets used to it (yes: drowsiness and possible anxiety from it while your brain adapts to it, a bizarre combination).

If she prescribed the Vistaril short-term, to cover the potential increased anxiety of the Zoloft for the first couple weeks, and doesn't intend for it to continue past that point, then I don't see a problem.  [Just as short term benzodiazepine prescriptions may be used for a similar situation.]


DISCLAIMER: This is not - under any circumstances - meant to replace the recommendations of your doctor.  It is merely some additional information to help you think about and participate in your medical treatment, not to replace it.  Do not make ANY changes to what you are already taking without discussing it with your doctor first!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 11:59:15 AM by LucasM »
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects


Offline LucasM

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15096 on: April 29, 2013, 11:56:52 AM »
I don't know if Zoloft is time release but its important to take them at the same time every day usually in the morning.  May take a while before you feel the effects.  Its good that you have a therapist to monitor your progress.

It isn't time release, but there needs to be a consistent level in the blood (and thereby, in the brain) for it to keep up the serotonin 'pounding' on the receiving neurons.  It is only when that serotonin saturation happens consistently in the synapses that some of the receptors begin to close off.  Which also means: one needs to maintain this regular dosing during the length that it is prescribed for.  No skipped doses or else the pathways start readjusting their number of receptors.  With the domino effect, it can lead to disrupted brain function for a long time if one plays with one's dose even for a day or two.  [I worked with someone with bipolar disorder who kept playing with his dose - we're talking repeatedly, over years - and he kept wondering why his moods and functioning weren't stable, despite my repeatedly explaining its process of action to him.  It was frustrating, to say the least, as he was causing his moods to be disrupted by his playing with his dose.  (Like: he'd feel 'extra bad' one day and take a couple extra capsules, 'not as bad' and skip a dose, try cutting it off for a couple days 'to see if he still needed it' and then restarting again, doing that with more than one medication at a time.)]

You are right, it is usually prescribed to be taken in the morning.  Some people get too wiped out (exhausted/sleepy) from it, and there were a few psychiatrists that I used to work with who would change my clients' dosing from am to pm so the tiredness maximum would happen at bedtime.  Depends on what your doctor decides is right for you (with your input, of course).
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 12:00:36 PM by LucasM »
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects


Offline Lembach

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15097 on: April 29, 2013, 06:28:04 PM »
Holy hell. I've took ONE Hydroxyzine and Zoloft last night and I am zombified.
Seriously, I took the two pills last night, posted here in the forums and played video games for a couple hours. Then BAM, practically hit my head on the keyboard. I'm waking up every couple of hours and just staring at things. I managed to make a breakfast this morning only because the hunger pains wouldn't let me sleep. This is the first time all day I've felt vaguely myself again.

I think I'm going to just take the Hydroxyzine on a per freak-out basis. I don't think the Zoloft can effect me that fast after the first pill.


Offline goflyblind

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15098 on: April 29, 2013, 06:32:42 PM »
maybe your head counts as "heavy machinery." ???
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Offline Thrifty

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15099 on: April 29, 2013, 06:43:32 PM »
A lot of those mental health related medications hit you pretty hard at first, but then you get a little more used to them.  I remember the first Lorazepam I took knocked me out for like 13 hours, almost immediately.  It didn't take long before the things barely made me drowsy.


Offline LucasM

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15100 on: April 29, 2013, 07:09:12 PM »
Holy hell. I've took ONE Hydroxyzine and Zoloft last night and I am zombified.
Seriously, I took the two pills last night, posted here in the forums and played video games for a couple hours. Then BAM, practically hit my head on the keyboard. I'm waking up every couple of hours and just staring at things. I managed to make a breakfast this morning only because the hunger pains wouldn't let me sleep. This is the first time all day I've felt vaguely myself again.

I think I'm going to just take the Hydroxyzine on a per freak-out basis. I don't think the Zoloft can effect me that fast after the first pill.

It may depend on the dosage for the Zoloft.  How much are you taking (mg)?  Contrary to standard opinion (pushed by the pharmaceutical companies and their 'independent' research that they pay for [and there is no law that says they have to report ALL the results, so you can be sure they are cherry-picking what to share in order to increase profits]) doses at less than 50mg, even less than 25mg, can be effective.  It just depends on how sensitive your system is to chemicals.

Definitely discuss any potential change with your doctor.  And (true with ANY doctor: ) if she doesn't listen to your concerns or brushes off your thoughts and experiences, find a different one.

[Was any of what I wrote on the previous page helpful?  Or were you too wiped to read any?]
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects


Offline Lembach

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15101 on: April 29, 2013, 07:21:03 PM »
maybe your head counts as "heavy machinery." ???



Offline Lembach

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15102 on: April 29, 2013, 07:24:40 PM »
Holy hell. I've took ONE Hydroxyzine and Zoloft last night and I am zombified.
Seriously, I took the two pills last night, posted here in the forums and played video games for a couple hours. Then BAM, practically hit my head on the keyboard. I'm waking up every couple of hours and just staring at things. I managed to make a breakfast this morning only because the hunger pains wouldn't let me sleep. This is the first time all day I've felt vaguely myself again.

I think I'm going to just take the Hydroxyzine on a per freak-out basis. I don't think the Zoloft can effect me that fast after the first pill.

It may depend on the dosage for the Zoloft.  How much are you taking (mg)?  Contrary to standard opinion (pushed by the pharmaceutical companies and their 'independent' research that they pay for [and there is no law that says they have to report ALL the results, so you can be sure they are cherry-picking what to share in order to increase profits]) doses at less than 50mg, even less than 25mg, can be effective.  It just depends on how sensitive your system is to chemicals.

Definitely discuss any potential change with your doctor.  And (true with ANY doctor: ) if she doesn't listen to your concerns or brushes off your thoughts and experiences, find a different one.

[Was any of what I wrote on the previous page helpful?  Or were you too wiped to read any?]

50mg tablets on each. No, I read it all. Thank you. But yes, I've been having a hard time concentrating today, so I'm sorry I didn't respond.


Offline Mrs. Dick Courier

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15103 on: April 29, 2013, 07:28:14 PM »
50 mg is a pretty high starting dose.  Docs usually start lower then make adjustments.  At least thats what my therapist did.  And that way you can get used to them slowly.
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Offline Bob

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Re: RRRRRAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!
« Reply #15104 on: April 30, 2013, 09:52:34 AM »
Sounds like pain, that is for sure.  The good thing is, go through the rehab, and they get fixed.