Author Topic: Nexus Logic  (Read 17445 times)

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Offline Conor

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Nexus Logic
« on: July 03, 2007, 02:27:02 PM »
You need an entire thread to point out the logical flaws of the movie.  For example, just because Picard left the Nexus with Kirk, how did that effect Saron?  He had achieved his goal and gotten back to the Nexus.  If Kirk and Picard left, why would that effect him?  In that case, every time someone left the Nexus and went back to a time before you entered the Nexus, it would remove you from the Nexus (at least, when that person leaving was the central figure in a movie narrative.)

Obviously, stupid situations like this arrive in any time travel movie, and you shouldn't pick things apart, etc, etc.  But what about it bothered you?


Offline Big Blonde

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 02:36:04 PM »
I'm wondering about Whoopi Goldberg character's echo in the Nexus. Does that also mean that Picard and Kirk will leave imprints in the nexus?
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Offline Minnesota

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007, 02:41:29 PM »
So the entire enterprise crashed on the same planet as Picard and the bad guy ... umm why weren't they absorbed into the nexus too?


Offline Junkyard

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007, 02:44:59 PM »
After trying to sort it out, I believe that whole fiasco should have shattered the Universe, as I have said in another thread.
Think this one through:
Assumably, both Kirk, Picard, and Soran went into the Nexus.
Picard and Kirk came out, leaving Soran inside while they attempted to change history.
Somehow, there is only one Picard at this point, instead of the two who should have been there.
They sucseed in stoppping Soran, and Soran doesn't go into the Nexus.
One Picard goes back home, one Kirk dies, and one Soran dies.

Questions:
Where is Picard #1?
Where is Soran at this point? At least one is in pieces, but is there still one in the Nexus?
If there isn't a Soran in the Nexus, because Picard prevented both Soran and himself from entering it, why does he remember/live with the ramifications of his time in the Nexus?
Would his stopping himself from entering the Nexus stop him from stopping himself from entering the Nexus?

My conclusion: Picard should have caused a time loop, which would have resulted in the universe ripping in half, releasing energy that would take out several surrounding dimensions at the existencial level. Meanwhile, Picard #2 escaped, and is now sipping martinis in the Mirror Universe.


Offline Junkyard

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 02:45:46 PM »
Also, they landed on the inhabited planet, I though, not the nexus intersect planet.


Offline David

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007, 02:46:00 PM »
And why weren't there two Picards when he exited the Nexus? It's like he took over the mind of his previous self. So why did Kirk get to bring his whole body with him?

I'm wondering about Whoopi Goldberg character's echo in the Nexus. Does that also mean that Picard and Kirk will leave imprints in the nexus?

Of course. So they can Bring Back Kirk.
There have been countless fanfics about this, one by Shatner himself if I recall correctly.

So the entire enterprise crashed on the same planet as Picard and the bad guy ... umm why weren't they absorbed into the nexus too?

They crashed on the fourth planet. Picard and Sauron were on the third.


Offline Just Some Guy

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007, 03:16:13 PM »
The thing that gets me is that if it's your desire to leave the Nexus, wouldn't the Nexus fake it for you and make you think you've left the Nexus?


Offline Junkyard

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2007, 03:17:53 PM »
Hey, good point! Maybe the later seasons of Star Trek Next Generation actually take place in the Nexus!
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Offline Minnesota

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2007, 03:22:43 PM »
So the entire enterprise crashed on the same planet as Picard and the bad guy ... umm why weren't they absorbed into the nexus too?

They crashed on the fourth planet. Picard and Sauron were on the third.

Ahh, I see. Well all the other Nexus logic in the film was terrible ;D

How was it that Kirk spent 30 years on the nexus without any recollection of the previous 30 years ... did the same thing happen to Picard? Say for instance he were to leave the nexus without time traveling, would he be living in the future like Kirk (if he would've survived at least ;) )


Offline Junkyard

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2007, 03:37:25 PM »
Well, the whole thing with the Nexus was that time held no meaning. If he had wanted to, Picard could have met up with Kirk 30 years in, but he chose to meet with him, (with Whoopie's guiding,) a few seconds after his arrival.


Offline Douglin

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2007, 04:37:58 PM »
I'm going to say that it's all down to quantum physics...and reversing the polarity....and magnets...

I actually listened to the commentary for this, because it had BSG uber-producer Ron Moore on it, and they're pretty brutally honest about where they messed up and what they were forced to do by the executives and the fact that they made mistakes.

On the Nexus they say that it doesn't make much sense and really Picard and Kirk should go back in time a few more days and catch Soran when he's on the toilet or something(they also say how the terminator should have done the same thing)


Also..did Whoppi and Soran have to live the 80 years to get from the prologue to the main part of the film?  I don't know if I missed something there...


Offline David

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2007, 04:40:36 PM »
Oh yeah, Guinan had some crazy time senses on top of that, didn't she? Like, in one episode she knew that time had been altered or something.
She really reminded me of the Oracle from the Matrix.

Also..did Whoppi and Soran have to live the 80 years to get from the prologue to the main part of the film?  I don't know if I missed something there...

I'm pretty sure they're the same species, a species with crazy long life spans. In another episode we find out she had been on Earth in the 19th century (without time travel). She was chumming with Mark Twain.


Offline Conor

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2007, 04:46:23 PM »
http://www.mjyoung.net/time/index.htm

This website delves into time travel issues in every movie.  It tries to sort out where they erred and see how or if they could fix their logic.  I don't know if it mentions what I wrote about earlier, I read it a while ago.  They have lots of other movies, pretty much anything with time travel in it.

Here's another thing that confounded me:  Kirk and Picard are battling Soran, the second time around.  But Soran has blown up the bridge, and the guys look to be in trouble.  Why not just let him blow up the planet, go back into the Nexus, and then come back out and start again?  Sort of use it like a video game reset button until something goes your way?  Maybe after trying and failing a couple times, they would get the brighter idea to go back and stop him at a more opportune time. 

« Last Edit: July 03, 2007, 04:48:15 PM by Conor »


Offline Junkyard

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2007, 04:55:22 PM »
Yeah, the potential restart angle took away from the tention of the fight.
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Offline Junkyard

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Re: Nexus Logic
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2007, 05:03:34 PM »
In fact, come to think of it, they could have brought in an army of Picards and Kirks if they did things right!