Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - SPOILERS HERE

[kunedog]

What agenda is that?

Hmm, this is embarrassing, you've stumped me.  Or maybe it's the exact same one that was shoved into Ghostbusters . . . with the exact same result . . .

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Fantastic argument.  Meanwhile in reality:

• The range of every single (Disney) Star Wars box office result before audiences were exposed to TLJ:  Anywhere from respectable to spectacular & record-breaking.
• The range of every single Star Wars box office result after audiences were exposed to TLJ:  Anywhere from disappointing to abysmal.

Every single one.  Not to mention the plummeting merchandise sales and near-complete lack of (ambiguously canceled) future film plans.

Sigh, look, Kunedog, dude you’re always entitled to your opinion. However, I get the feeling that you’re engaging in some seriously overblown hyperbole. As a result I feel you’re not really open to discussing this at all.

Naw, I read you guys' posts, and I (mostly) take them seriously.  When I said that Rey is a different kind of character, you said that she's meant as an avatar, and I believe you're right.  But IMO her writers seem afraid that that the audience won't react well to seeing her suffer, struggle, screw up badly, or lose.

When you say that the last Jedi has contempt for the original trilogy I honestly have no idea what you are talking about man.

I won't defend midichlorians or disagree with you about the prequels, except to say that both are easy to dismiss (for whoever wants to).  I view them, despite being the first new SW flicks I saw in theatres, as a good story told poorly with a few random memorable scenes amongst a lot of boredom (pretty sure I never watched them a second time all the way through, except for the Rifftraxes (Rifftraxi?))  Midichlorians are especially dumb but they seem to function identically to DNA (i.e. they mean that force power is inherited) so Luke and Leia neither know nor care about them, and it changes nothing about their story of having force powers because of Annakin.  Introducing hyperspace-ramming in a prequel would be a lot worse than MCs, if you get my point; and even then, a prequel would just be inherently easier to dismiss.

Deconstruction seems like a bad idea in a venerable franchise that's supposed to have mass appeal.  And whittling the good guys down until they all fit on a single small freighter with no allies and no destination?  That severely devalues what happened in the OT, if you take it seriously.

[ScottotD]

What agenda is that?

Hmm, this is embarrassing, you've stumped me.  Or maybe it's the exact same one that was shoved into Ghostbusters . . . with the exact same result . . .

...again, which is?

[kunedog]

Episode 7 echoes previous Star Wars movies, as per tradition.  - Fans: This is too much like Star Wars!

Me: Thanks for disregarding the prequels, and I had a lot of fun.  But your worldbuilding is garbage, the first order and Rey are grossly overpowered, and please knock it off with the death stars.  BTW, this flick is doing unbelievably well, so it might a good idea to ignore a lot of what the fans say (complaints) but pay close attention to what they do (buy bucketloads of tickets).  That still counts as "listening to the fans" by the way.

Episode 8 subverts expectations - fans: This doesn't feel enough like Star Wars and seems to alienate the fans!

Me: See previous TLJ comments.

Episode 9 caters to the fans as hard as it possibly can - Fans: SIGH. No!

Me: It's too late to (re)start a fan-pleasing, trilogy-size story now, in the third movie.  I definitely don't trust you anymore.  When you all-but-purged TLJ from the marketing except to bad-mouth it, it looked like a trap (which I couldn't confirm with Ackbar because you'd already killed him).  But you followed through and I don't know what to make of the finished product . . . how can you possibly critique something like Carrie Fisher's performance, for example?  It's a sometimes fun mess trying to "conclude" two disjoint predecessors.

And each one takes in over a billion at the box office (ROS will probably go over a billion this week). 

So many articles out there about how disappointing the box office is, as if it should be making 5 billion by now or something.
 
Seems people have expectations that have no basis in history.  If you look at the box office trends of all 3 trilogies this latest one is following the same trend as the first 2, 1st movie does the most, second and third movies each draw about half as much.

The third movie usually gets a decent bump (perhaps from people just wanting to know how it all ends), not a lower gross than the second movie like ROS will have.  That looks like a significant number of folks showing up for the first and second movies, yet having their interest killed off somehow.

The trilogies might be tough to compare since each was released in a very different time and market from the others, but one measure of how well audiences respond to an individual movie is its "legs," the ratio of the final total to the opening weekend.  Bad legs can be an indicator of missed opportunity and wasted potential, because it shows people initially gave the film a chance, but then it probably suffered from bad word of mouth and/or lack of repeated viewings (very important for Star Wars).

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/article/ed3848340484/
Rogue One had the worst (Star Wars) legs at 3.4x until TLJ's 2.8x, which alarmingly seems to be the new normal (i.e. what I mean by "lasting brand damage").  Solo managed 2.5x and ROS will match TLJ when it reaches 500M domestically.

[kunedog]

What agenda is that?

Hmm, this is embarrassing, you've stumped me.  Or maybe it's the exact same one that was shoved into Ghostbusters . . . with the exact same result . . .

...again, which is?

That's cute, because your sig shows you already know.

So here's an unrelated article about another random movie:
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/07/01/elizabeth-banks-on-charlies-angels-women-are-the-audience-and-the-message-is-to-believe-women/

And a vid too:
"Charlie’s Angels" Postmortem – More Women saw "Rambo Last Blood"

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/gMBI2yx1N98" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/gMBI2yx1N98</a>

[Kete]

This thread sucks

[Russoguru]

I myself kind of feel like a ghost on this thread.

[F-Zero]

Anyways, it was good.  End of an era.  I wondered if I'd live to see the conclusion of the series.

My favorite memories:  Sitting in the theater with my dad in 1977.  Trying to build an R2D2 in the garage out of a garbage can.  Death Star toy on Christmas morning 1977.  Jealousy of the friend down the street who had EVERY Star Wars toy.  Throwing my friend's Millenium Falcon to see if it would fly.  Listening to the Star Wars story LP over and over and over.  All the SciFi ripoffs in the late 70s and early 80s, not to mention the resurrection of Star Trek!  What a great time to be alive.

[kunedog]

This thread sucks

I see what you did there.

[Variety of Cells]

https://news.avclub.com/turns-out-colin-trevorrows-version-of-star-wars-episod-1841002112

Uhg. This does sound better. I like the concepts better anyway, and the themes.

[The Lurker]

https://news.avclub.com/turns-out-colin-trevorrows-version-of-star-wars-episod-1841002112

Uhg. This does sound better. I like the concepts better anyway, and the themes.

I don't trust his ability to handle it, though.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

 There are a few ideas in there I like, and several I don't.   Also doesn't seem like this would have a very upbeat ending, so not a very fun way to wrap up 9 movies.  So I don't see this as being any better than what we got.

[Edward J Grug III]

https://news.avclub.com/turns-out-colin-trevorrows-version-of-star-wars-episod-1841002112

Uhg. This does sound better. I like the concepts better anyway, and the themes.

I don't trust his ability to handle it, though.

I agree with both of you.

[Edward J Grug III]

That's cute, because your sig shows you already know.

So here's an unrelated article about another random movie:
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/07/01/elizabeth-banks-on-charlies-angels-women-are-the-audience-and-the-message-is-to-believe-women/

And a vid too:
"Charlie’s Angels" Postmortem – More Women saw "Rambo Last Blood"

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/gMBI2yx1N98" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/gMBI2yx1N98</a>

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bounding-into-comics/

[ScottotD]

What agenda is that?

Hmm, this is embarrassing, you've stumped me.  Or maybe it's the exact same one that was shoved into Ghostbusters . . . with the exact same result . . .

...again, which is?

That's cute, because your sig shows you already know.

How so?  I don't remember anyone saying new MST had an agenda.   What agenda are you referring to?

[Russoguru]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There seems to be a pattern with all the reviews I’ve seen. Everyone seems to be a little more nitpicky than usual, a little more analytical and hyper critical than usual. I know absolutely nothing about writing a big budget motion picture. There is one thing I do understand though, and that’s the necessity to make a movie like this appeal to all Fans. Not just people who treat Star Wars as a religion, but the casual moviegoer as well. Based on those two factors I really don’t see how the rise of Skywalker could’ve been any better than it turned out to be. I think I’ve said this before but these days when it comes to movies I like to look at the overall picture. I really don’t care if in your opinion things seemed rushed or if there’s too much story or things seem unearned or something like that. What really matters to me is the overall feeling I have when I leave the movie theater. I’ve come a long way from the person I used to be. I’ve seen the rise of Skywalker three times, and each and every time I still loved it. I could also watch it again and again. That’s an important factor for me because there are some really great movies out there that I don’t need to watch more than once. Some of Christopher Nolan‘s movies like the dark Knight and interstellar come to mind. Yes, they are great movies but I just have no interest in ever watching them again because they lack a certain something that JJ is somehow really good at putting into his movies.