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Author Topic: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE  (Read 2492 times)

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Online Johnny Unusual

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2019, 03:10:40 PM »
I think a big reason Skyler was so disliked is because everyone WANTED to see Walter White continue his downward spiral into villainy, and there was no place for a realistically concerned and suspicious spouse.

See, I've always been in the pro-Skyler camp for that reason.  I feel like she grounds the series and while White's spiral makes him believe in his own legend and build up his ego and self-confidence and we see that it hurts the people who love him like Skyler, breakfast enthusiast Walt Jr and Jesse.  Both characters end up making some bad choices that seem right at that juncture but while Walt begins to see it as a reason to engage in his worst instincts, characters like Skyler and Jesse find it as damaging to themselves as well as the people who get hurt along the way.  I also feel like she, along with several other characters, get improved a lot as the show goes on.  In season one, she and Hank are a bit more broad but as they move on they prove to be really well rounded characters.

Anyhoo, if we want to keep this conversation going, we can dig up the old Breaking Bad thread and continue it there.


Offline kunedog

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2019, 03:01:54 PM »
A+

Color me relieved the Russos didn't drop the ball.  The way I most feared they'd screw up (because it would be both a) intentional and b) beneficial in the short term) was by closing with a cliffhanger.  But in a bold move, they (somehow with Disney's approval) tied everything up so thoroughly that it amounts to a clean break for any fan who wants one.

Instead of the expected battle for the stones, they did the Back to the Future 2 thing competently on a grand scale (and patched over the plot hole well IMO, but this is subjective).  I wish there were better words to describe it than "clip show" and "cameos" because those connote laziness and cheapness.  These callback scenes are unpredictable yet all of them feel well-earned.  Can't ask for more than that.

Reading my IW post again, I have some of the same gripes, so there were few nasty surprises.  Obviously, Endgame is as impenetrable as IW to those out of the MCU loop.  It's unfortunate that this is technically a different Thanos, but his crash course is done well enough that I think most of the audience just kinda pretends he's the same guy (plus they used the old Thanos to develop Thor and Nebula).  The comedy is greatly improved this time.  As in IW, the first snap is cheap and they try hard to give it weight when most of us already know it's going to be (nearly) completely undone.  The five year gap is an interesting twist (though FFH didn't take it very seriously) and of course Tony's third snap sacrifice means more than anything to a lot of us.

I appreciated how the conflict over the time stone was resolved with a conversation (and a powerpoint presentation) instead of a fight, and I wish the soul stone had been awarded similarly.  Widow and Hawkeye's balanced duel felt overblown and unnecessary.  How about this instead:

As before, Widow and Hawkeye each make their case for sacrificing themselves, but now Widow concedes so Hawkeye "wins."  Maybe she has dialog reminiscent of her Avengers 1 interrogation of Loki, as foreshadowing for what's about to happen.  They both say tearful goodbyes and embrace for a few seconds.  They start to pull apart for a moment before Widow suddenly leans back in and plants a kiss on Hawkeye's lips.  He's as shocked as the audience is, and definitely not reciprocal; he doesn't have (those) feelings for her, nor did he think she did for him, but (at this moment) he doesn't quite have the heart to push her away . . . at least not until it's too late.  We now get his first-person view, a straight-on shot of Widow staring into his eyes, wiping something off her lips, and walking backwards towards the cliff.  As his vision blurs he puts two and two together, then he wakes up with the stone, as before.

I think that would better mirror the first soul stone scene (i.e. a subdued affair where one party puts up a token resistance, but they're completely outmatched and the outcome is inevitable).

Anyway, this post is already too long and makes my complaints seem larger than they are.  I don't expect to see another movie to match this for a long time, if ever.  It requires a multi-year, multi-film setup and a clear, coherent vision and plan (if not a complete pre-existing library of source material) from the start.  Phases 1-3 comprise an instant classic.