Author Topic: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE  (Read 2355 times)

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Offline Russoguru

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2019, 07:03:15 PM »
I'm a little bummed out because it'll be a LONG time, maybe never(in my lifetime) until a movie comes out that tops Endgame in every respect.


Offline Edward J Grug III

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2019, 07:08:19 PM »
There's an air of mourning in there, but yeah, it's not totally negative either.

I've always been drawn to serialized stories. Not that there's anything wrong with a self-contained viewing experience, but there's something exciting about knowing that something that happened in issue 23 might come back to haunt someone all the way in issue 80, and it rewards you for being there from the start, taking it all in. While growing up, there really wasn't a lot of entertainment like that. Most TV shows were designed with the idea that everything had to be back to normal by the end of the episode. You could watch the episodes out of order and nothing would seem out of place. I would live for those 2-parter TV episodes, or movies with sequels. Then I got into comic books and I loved that they never ended and always remembered their past. I can still remember coming out of Iron Man after seeing that post-credits movie sequence and excitedly saying after, "Wouldn't it be awesome if they could release all of these superhero movies together and Spider-Man could drop in on The Hulk's movies now and then, just like in the comics?" Watching all of that actually come to be has been glorious.

What I love most about this whole transformation (If you will) is that things like Game of Thrones or Marvel Movies or even Star Wars used to be fringe stuff. Only the geeks watched that stuff. Now I can discuss it openly at work with coworkers almost twice my age. It's like the world has figured out something about geek culture that I've known all along.

This rant has ended up all over the place, but I guess what I'm saying is I have absolutely no reservations about the future of cinema or TV or entertainment in general. I love that we're here.

I think it is reasonable to mourn the end of an era, even if you are ok with it and are excited about what's to come.

This article really captures one of my feelings about Endgame - I loved it, but didn't think it felt like a 'good movie.'

But that's ok, because I love a lot of blockbuster serialised stuff, and no one's really going to stop making 'movies' they are just likely to be on Netflix etc.

Having said that, no one has managed to do what Marvel has done - even Star Wars has had stumbles and had to work on righting their ship. So who knows?
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Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2019, 08:13:01 PM »
I finally saw it tonight. It was AMAZING! So many thing paid off, even more than I thought they would.
Considering that the Infinity Gauntlet is a literal Deus Ex Machina, I'm not going to complain about some of the times when they could have used it and they didn't. Too much of it (like it has been in the comics) would have lessened the impact of when it was used.

I do have a slight issue when Thanos changed his plans from the sympathetic and selfless "ensure balance" to "DESTROY EVERYTHING BECAUSE BWAHAHA!" Did they really need to us the stakes again? Especially since this is the earlier version of Thanos that still had that "balance" plan. And we know he has eliminated half of life on whole planets before. You'd think he'd have seen by now that the result is resentment and longing for what was before.



Offline Russoguru

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2019, 08:17:53 PM »
Darth I think Thanos changed his plans because we all needed to see he truly was a monster and that his outlook on the universe is contingent upon how life reacts to changes in the nature of things. Some might have seen a certain wisdom in what he was doing, but we had to see Thanos, for all his pleadings of altruism is really a sick, sick bastard.


Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2019, 08:21:07 PM »
Darth I think Thanos changed his plans because we all needed to see he truly was a monster and that his outlook on the universe is contingent upon how life reacts to changes in the nature of things. Some might have seen a certain wisdom in what he was doing, but we had to see Thanos, for all his pleadings of altruism is really a sick, sick bastard.
I already saw him as that. And I think the general audience member did. I wonder if this was a last minute change due to some sick fan reactions thinking Thanos was right.



Offline Russoguru

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2019, 08:23:17 PM »
I already saw him as that. And I think the general audience member did. I wonder if this was a last minute change due to some sick fan reactions thinking Thanos was right.
Who knows? Honestly I think this way it works better, especially because of "Born out of blood", and "They'll never know".


Offline Edward J Grug III

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2019, 09:07:55 PM »
To be fair, he rethought his plan because he saw it wasn't working.
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Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2019, 09:47:04 PM »
To be fair, he rethought his plan because he saw it wasn't working.
But if it didn't accomplish his goal doing it to half the universe all at once, it wouldn't have worked when he did it in person to each planet. So why is this result new to him? He actually says that the planets he did his half extermination on have prospered afterwards. Is he lying about that? Or is did he never check up on it and just assumed it worked?



Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2019, 09:48:37 PM »
This movie also reminded me that I need to watch Agent Carter. I heard it was good, but never saw it while it was on.



Offline Edward J Grug III

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2019, 12:00:01 AM »
To be fair, he rethought his plan because he saw it wasn't working.
But if it didn't accomplish his goal doing it to half the universe all at once, it wouldn't have worked when he did it in person to each planet. So why is this result new to him? He actually says that the planets he did his half extermination on have prospered afterwards. Is he lying about that? Or is did he never check up on it and just assumed it worked?

Maybe it's because on the other planets people were definitively killed, but in this instance he used magic that was undo-able?
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Offline Edward J Grug III

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2019, 12:00:35 AM »
To be fair, he rethought his plan because he saw it wasn't working.
But if it didn't accomplish his goal doing it to half the universe all at once, it wouldn't have worked when he did it in person to each planet. So why is this result new to him? He actually says that the planets he did his half extermination on have prospered afterwards. Is he lying about that? Or is did he never check up on it and just assumed it worked?

First season is excellent. The second season was not.
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Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2019, 05:44:51 AM »
To be fair, he rethought his plan because he saw it wasn't working.
But if it didn't accomplish his goal doing it to half the universe all at once, it wouldn't have worked when he did it in person to each planet. So why is this result new to him? He actually says that the planets he did his half extermination on have prospered afterwards. Is he lying about that? Or is did he never check up on it and just assumed it worked?

First season is excellent. The second season was not.
Are you referring to my Agent Carter comment?



Offline Edward J Grug III

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2019, 03:41:19 PM »
To be fair, he rethought his plan because he saw it wasn't working.
But if it didn't accomplish his goal doing it to half the universe all at once, it wouldn't have worked when he did it in person to each planet. So why is this result new to him? He actually says that the planets he did his half extermination on have prospered afterwards. Is he lying about that? Or is did he never check up on it and just assumed it worked?

First season is excellent. The second season was not.
Are you referring to my Agent Carter comment?

Sorry, yes
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Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2019, 10:13:16 AM »
There's only one thing I think they've left open that the comics did they could do as well, and would fit.

Funny I mentioned that earlier. Because that was actually something that they also subverted expectations. I thought Nebula would have the gauntlet next, like they did in the comics. Nebula was holding the gauntlet at one point, but didn't put it on.



Offline Russoguru

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - SPOILERS HERE
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2019, 08:14:07 PM »
I don't know if it's just me, but I'm seeing this trend ALL over FB where people are like OMG that Rat saved the universe. I'm of course all like "Ha ha, very funny, but what you're neglecting to mention is--" "I mean that rat saved us all!" "Yes, I heard you the first time! If I may continue pl--" "That rat is the REAL hero of Endgame!" "Shut up about the damn Rat already!"

Here's my point, this was the same thing I have had to point out to people about Infinity War. People were blaming Star Lord for losing his shit and Thanos getting all the stones. Here's the thing: There are a LOT of links in this chain, or if you prefer the chain of events leading up to Thanos completing the Gauntlet. First, Loki, if he didn't give in, Thanos would not have acquired the space stone. Secondly, if Nebula had simply taken her own life on the ship, Thanos would never have acquired the Soul Stone. Third, if Star Lord didn't lose his shit, they might have gotten the Infinity Gauntlet back, right? WRONG because Doctor Strange already went forward in time and saw all outcomes. Even if Peter had NOT lost his shit, Thanos may have still maintained the gauntlet. Fourth, Doctor Strange is the key to all this because he is technically responsible for Thanos getting both the Time and Mind stones. So that leads me to this question: Why the eff doesn't anybody ever blame Doctor Strange for what happened? Simple, this was the ONLY way. Now... after seeing Endgame I still don't quite understand. I'm assuming Thanos would have gotten the stone from Doctor Strange sooner or later so it doesn't really matter anyway? What if Doctor Strange tried to commit the ultimate sacrifice himself? Would Thanos have used the glove to keep Stephen alive? We may never know.

Now, Endgame. The first and foremost important link in the chain of events is Captain Marvel. Without her, Tony doesn't get back to Earth. He would have died in space and half the universe stays dead forever. The rat switching on the machine and spitting out Scott is of course important, but it doesn't mean shit unless Tony is still alive and back on Earth. Did all the people who keep making this joke about the rat just conveniently forget Strange bargained to spare Tony's life? He did that for a reason, not just because they suddenly became BFF's. Then of course there's the mega complicated chain of events, the original six Avengers along with Rhodey, Ant-man, Nebula and Rocket all have important roles in acquiring all six infinity stones in the past. Nat dies so Clint can get the Soul stone. Clint picks up and runs with the gauntlet, evading Thanos's forces. Later on, Black Panther, Spider-man, Captain Marvel all have a role in getting the gauntlet to where it's supposed to be. And of course, finally Tony's tech yanks all the stones out of the gauntlet so Tony can use his own gauntlet and snap Thanos and his entire army into oblivion.

Wait, why am I composing this post again? Oh yeah... the rat. or as many have affectionately come to call him... Splinter, which makes a lot more sense if the events of Endgame took place sometime in the 1980's.