Author Topic: IT (Spoilers)  (Read 227 times)

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Offline Darth Geek

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IT (Spoilers)
« on: September 10, 2017, 07:49:13 AM »
I thought we could discuss IT here, with spoilers.
(And I haven't read the book since I was a kid, so I remember little about it other than I liked it.)

Overall, I liked the movie. The best things about it are the performances of the kids are stellar, and that when they build tension for a scene it's well done.
 
The movie is gorier. They do take advantage of the R rating. And since most of that is directed at children it is quite shocking.

At the end IT's lair indicates that Pennywise is part of the origin of the creature somehow. That gives more of a reason for him to turn into the clown so much. Because otherwise he would only be a form IT should use to draw kids in, or for kids that are scared of clowns, yet IT uses him all the time.

Bill Skarsgard was good. He wasn't trying to do a Tim Curry impression, which I appreciate. I did think that his clown design was too deliberately creepy. But there were moments in Scarsgard's performance where he was clearly trying to be appealing. I just don't see modern kids wanting to get anywhere near him, so it makes half of the reason for his Pennywise form pointless.

Unfortunately it did have too many jump scares, and I hated those. Completely unnecessary. Plus, I am a rather nervous person by nature, so jump scares ALWAYS get me, and I hate them for that. As well as hating them for being such a lazy scare.

It was disappointing when Beverly was a hostage near the end, as the reason why they went back in. I don't think that happened in the book. It was a cliche that the movie didn't need, and it weakens her character. Especially since it comes right after her character's strongest moment, when she knocks out her Dad.

Speaking of which, what was the deal with Bev just going to another town to live with her Aunt? Shouldn't she be in jail or juvenile detention for assaulting someone and possibly killing them?!

While it may have happened in the book, I didn't like that the big fight in the House happened, they left, and THEN they went down in the sewers. They should have just gone down in the sewers right then. Especially since the only real difference between the two times going into the house was that the second time they had weapons. WHICH THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD THE FIRST TIME!

The bully was even more pointless in this movie than in the original mini-series. I never understood why IT would need the bully as a minion anyway. There's no indication he had people working for him before. And IT is pretty powerful anyway, there doesn't seem to be any limit to what he can do. It's not like he's a vampire and can't come out in the daytime or something.

I am looking forward to seeing the second half, but it is too bad that it will mostly, or completely, take place at the present with the adult versions of the characters. So we will not have the excellent, and very likable, kid actors.


A little more word on jump scares. Jump scares are the fart joke, or pun, of horror movies. The cheapest, laziest type of scare. They can be done well, but the majority of the time it's bad filmmakers who can't build tension so they just throw things at the screen. Which is why it's so sad to see this good movie do them when it that does build tension really well. If you cut the jump scares out entirely, this would still be a very effective and scary horror film.



Offline PsychoGoatee

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 08:52:28 PM »
Great movie, had a lot of fun going to see it. It reminds me of the style of Wes Craven's fun horror movies, like A Nightmare on Elm Street. It had more humor and feel of adventure to it than you might expect from the tone of the trailers. To me it's just a classy 80s style good time, very fun. Can't wait for part 2.

I really enjoyed the mini-series with Tim Curry as well, and look forward to part 2 here and how they'll do with it.


Offline Darth Geek

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 06:04:37 AM »
Of course, I will incessantly bug Cinester Theater and Hor-Riff-ic Productions to riff this and the second one.



Offline Pastor of Muppets

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 06:58:00 AM »
I thought we could discuss IT here, with spoilers.
(And I haven't read the book since I was a kid, so I remember little about it other than I liked it.)

Overall, I liked the movie. The best things about it are the performances of the kids are stellar, and that when they build tension for a scene it's well done.
 
The movie is gorier. They do take advantage of the R rating. And since most of that is directed at children it is quite shocking.

At the end IT's lair indicates that Pennywise is part of the origin of the creature somehow. That gives more of a reason for him to turn into the clown so much. Because otherwise he would only be a form IT should use to draw kids in, or for kids that are scared of clowns, yet IT uses him all the time.

Bill Skarsgard was good. He wasn't trying to do a Tim Curry impression, which I appreciate. I did think that his clown design was too deliberately creepy. But there were moments in Scarsgard's performance where he was clearly trying to be appealing. I just don't see modern kids wanting to get anywhere near him, so it makes half of the reason for his Pennywise form pointless.

Unfortunately it did have too many jump scares, and I hated those. Completely unnecessary. Plus, I am a rather nervous person by nature, so jump scares ALWAYS get me, and I hate them for that. As well as hating them for being such a lazy scare.

I don't remember any jump scares and I was prepared for them.  I hate them too.  They're just unpleasant, like being slapped.

Quote
It was disappointing when Beverly was a hostage near the end, as the reason why they went back in. I don't think that happened in the book. It was a cliche that the movie didn't need, and it weakens her character. Especially since it comes right after her character's strongest moment, when she knocks out her Dad.

No, it didn't happen in the book.  In the book, they went to the house on Neibolt Street, where they found the creature's weakness (that they could essentially lock it into a form if they all collectively were convinced to perceive it that way).  They locked it into a werewolf form (Richie's greatest fear), which left it vulnerable to silver.  Bev hit it with a sliver slug from a slingshot, causing It to retreat to the sewers.  This essentially strengthened their resolve and gave them the courage to confront it at a later date.

Here, the kids were terrified beyond belief, and they needed something strong to convince them to go back underground.

Quote
Speaking of which, what was the deal with Bev just going to another town to live with her Aunt? Shouldn't she be in jail or juvenile detention for assaulting someone and possibly killing them?!

While it may have happened in the book, I didn't like that the big fight in the House happened, they left, and THEN they went down in the sewers. They should have just gone down in the sewers right then. Especially since the only real difference between the two times going into the house was that the second time they had weapons. WHICH THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD THE FIRST TIME!


They were unarmed, terrified and barely escaped with their lives.  They were not about to go chasing after it!

It was foolish to go in unarmed, but they're just kids going to hunt a monster.  They underestimated.  They were on an exploratory mission.


Quote
The bully was even more pointless in this movie than in the original mini-series. I never understood why IT would need the bully as a minion anyway. There's no indication he had people working for him before. And IT is pretty powerful anyway, there doesn't seem to be any limit to what he can do. It's not like he's a vampire and can't come out in the daytime or something.

This is explained better in the book, but the monster has its limits.  It can't really hurt the kids if they're not scared.  It can, however, influence other humans who aren't bound to the same restrictions.

I'm not particularly religious, and I don't really like Muppets, but I do love word play.


Offline Variety of Cells

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 07:58:54 AM »
Saw it last night with my wife after work. She has a meeting with New Line execs today, and IT was their movie, so she needed to be able to small talk about it and didn't want to go alone.

It was ok. They did a good job building characters despite it being a bit cliche (token black guy, token girl). But I'm just not a fan of typical horror. It was well done for what it was, but it takes an exceptional film to scare me (for example, Jacob's Ladder). I didn't find anything creepy or scary about IT. Some of it was fun, but not really scary. Perhaps if I was 12.

Oh, and all arguments suggesting "Well this part was better in the book" are rendered moot because from what I understand, the is a multiple page orgy in the book where she fucks all of the boys. I'd love for someone to tell me I'm wrong, but if I'm not then I have little respect for the book. But I was never really a King fan anyway.

The humor worked best for me. A lot of it was legitimately funny. The scene that failed the hardest was the "This is what IT wants!  It wants us to fight each other!" scene. It came out of left field, because at that point they would have zero reason to come to that conclusion, but it's a trope that audiences are used to hearing and likely won't question.


Offline Pastor of Muppets

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 08:52:50 AM »
Oh, and all arguments suggesting "Well this part was better in the book" are rendered moot because from what I understand, the is a multiple page orgy in the book where she fucks all of the boys. I'd love for someone to tell me I'm wrong, but if I'm not then I have little respect for the book. But I was never really a King fan anyway.

Oh it's true.  But to be fair, you can't do an orgy among a group of 11 year olds in just one page.

It was really super gross and Stephen King should be ashamed of putting that in there.  The reason in the book was this: The confrontation against the monster was in the sewer, as you all know.  Sewer systems are not particularly easy to navigate.  The kids had a special spiritual or psychic connection or whatever which gave Eddie this strong sense of direction so he could lead them through to the monster's lair with no trouble.  The problem was that once they beat the beast back into hibernation, they lost that spiritual bond.  They got hopelessly lost in the sewers.  Everyone having sex with Bev was supposed to renew it.  It worked, and they found their way out.

So there's at least internal justification for it.   Wasn't just put there to titillate pedophiles or for shock value.  Of course that's no excuse.  There's a billion other ways they could have taken care of this.  Maybe some less gross ritual renews the bond.  Maybe they don't need the bond at all to navigate the sewers and they just find their way out on their own.  Maybe Eddie is just a good navigator and it never becomes an issue.
I'm not particularly religious, and I don't really like Muppets, but I do love word play.


Offline Darth Geek

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 09:43:44 AM »
The scene that failed the hardest was the "This is what IT wants!  It wants us to fight each other!" scene. It came out of left field, because at that point they would have zero reason to come to that conclusion, but it's a trope that audiences are used to hearing and likely won't question.
Yeah, I wondered about that too. It makes no sense.

I also agree with you about Mike being the "token black guy". In the miniseries they gave him a little more to do since he was the one looking into the town history. Plus he joined the group earlier, so you really feel like they've been friends for a while. In the movie he comes into the Loser's Club much later, and aside from being able to provide them with a weapon at the end he has little to do.



Offline Darth Geek

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 09:53:29 AM »
As for the infamous sex scene in the book, it clearly doesn't belong. The idea, as Pastor of Muppets pointed out, is to be a bonding moment for the group of kids. Both the mini-series and the movie do this far more effectively by having bonding moments together that are much more natural for what kids would do as a group of friends that truly respect each other rather than a bunch of pervy boys who think of her as the town bike.

I feel like it was a commentary on that scene why Bev in the movie is rumored to be a slut.



Offline Darth Geek

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 06:20:54 PM »
Did anybody else think that the bully would just blow himself up when he was down in the sewer shooting off a makeshift blowtorch? That would have been hilarious if Pennywise himself was shocked that happened.



Offline Variety of Cells

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 09:10:29 PM »
Did anybody else think that the bully would just blow himself up when he was down in the sewer shooting off a makeshift blowtorch? That would have been hilarious if Pennywise himself was shocked that happened.

No, but I did think/hope that after two scenes in a row of kids killing their parents, that the screenwriters would follow the rule of threes and have the whiny kid beat the shit out of his mother with his cast.


Offline Henry88

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 10:51:16 PM »
Production Budget: $35 million

 Worldwide: $209,900,390    
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=it.htm

it is having a good week
Cervantes smiled Spain's chivalry away;
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where did all the happy endings go?, where could all the good times be.


Offline Pastor of Muppets

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2017, 05:21:26 AM »
Did anybody else think that the bully would just blow himself up when he was down in the sewer shooting off a makeshift blowtorch? That would have been hilarious if Pennywise himself was shocked that happened.

That guy (Patrick Hockstetter) was a more fleshed out character in the book.  I'm not complaining, just stating.  They took some of Patrick's tendencies and rolled them in to Henry.  Makes the Patrick role smaller but that's okay because he was a pretty ancillary character in the book.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

King fleshed out the character of Patrick Hockstetter a lot more in the book, I think because Pennywise had a lot of innocent victims.  He wanted Pennywise to have a victim that was not so innocent.  So, in spite of all his evil, Pennywise unintentionally performed a good act.  It was an interesting addition to the book (unlike that awful child orgy in the sewer) that probably would have slowed down the pace of any film adaptation.
I'm not particularly religious, and I don't really like Muppets, but I do love word play.


Offline wihogfan

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Re: IT (Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 09:14:32 AM »
I thought John Ritter wasn't convincing as a human being and the biggest reveal was when they accused Harry Anderson of being funny because he wasn't. Enjoyed it for camp value though.