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Offline LucasM

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #435 on: October 16, 2017, 07:40:22 PM »
[[[This triple-bracketed paragraph written just after hitting "Post" because MartyS's response, and anais's response to that were written while I was writing this.  I agree with MartyS (and what I wrote below I think says the same thing in different words or from a slightly different 'direction').  I also agree with anais: this is nuanced and we need to discuss it.  I also agree that the Cracked article (that was supposed to be FUNNY?!!) was a male being raped.  The easiest way to look at ANY of these things is to ask yourself: "would I feel exactly the same way if the genders were reversed?"]]]

[Hopefully how I've written my thoughts in this are 'intact' and makes sense/convey what I mean.  After the intense focus for last night's writing I've ended up with a day's worth of needing extra seizure meds.  But with my particular perspective, I thought it was important to add my thoughts.  (Hopefully that doesn't sound egotistical, I've just had specific relevant training in sexual trauma and its treatment is all I mean by that.)

[I also apologize to VoC, most of this reads as if you are not here, reading this.  I can tell in editing this that this is far more disconnected and analytic/clinical than my post yesterday.  My apologies, but it has taken what focus I have left today to respond to anais in this detail.  I also apologize if I've unknowingly co-opted thoughts that someone else (including you) wrote as I wrote here.]

As a woman, what I say may or may not matter as much, but here goes:

Honestly I am very glad that a woman joined this discussion.  Because, in this particular instance, Variety of Cells could have dismissed some of what I said because of the natural distrust resulting from someone coming out of the disturbed roles of this society.  He may have dismissed part of what I said based on the distortions of responsibility that he has been becoming aware of, the distortions that are present in most male-male communication and bonding in this society.  So your words mean (and meant) a LOT here!  I know VoC thanked you, but thank you from me also.


Lucas is 100% correct. You realize that she continually violated your boundaries while she was drunk. If you say No, SHE should have stopped and her blaming it on the fact that she was drunk is no worse than Brock Turner blaming his thing on drinking.

Everything else that happened is based on our sick culture of society as Lucas said.

Actually I hadn't even thought of what you described: VoC saying no repeatedly while the young woman was drunk and coming on to him itself being sexual assault by her toward him.  It seems that MY awareness and biases in this area still need some work, too, as that passed right by me!  As you point out, that is a violation of VoC, just as the reverse would be for a male-toward-female encounter of the same type.  That he wanted a relationship with her for years colored my response.  But you are very right: regardless of whether he would have wanted such interactions if she had been sober, it was date-rape on her part for that aspect while she was drunk and he said no.

When writing, I was thinking more on the "who was sober" aspect when thinking about the events, because, as MartyS described, the sober person in any such interaction is the responsible one for 'gatekeeping' one's own level of participation based on both party's consent.  When I was referring to VoC's trauma, I was referring to being put into the role by society (of male's 'getting some' and the distortions learned in society on the effects of alcohol which changed his behavior), as well as him then being blamed for what society - and she - had said she wanted (confusing attacks for behaving how she appeared to want him to behave), which led to the specifics of the painful and threatening fall-out afterwards with her and those in the building and people who had been his friends as well.

That society 'trained' him to act in a certain way and believe certain things, as well as the consequences for doing what he'd been trained for, were what I was referring to.  To be attacked afterwards and lose friends for doing what someone said they wanted is traumatic (when 'under the influence' of society's distortion of alcohol being only a 'disinhibiter', that is how it would have felt at the time).  Had he continued to fight her off and she touched his crotch repeatedly (since not mentioned in VoC's write up of the event, I am presuming this did not happen), then I would have included the entire interaction itself as traumatic.


But the absolute BEST thing about you, which Brock hasn't done, my ex-boyfriend (he didn't sexually assault me, but that is a small digression), and so many other men never do is that you told us. You told us the truth including what you did that you regret. That is the best way to heal.

Very, very true.  Admission of one's responsibility for actions taken is the first step in detoxifying them.


I am the type of person who equates sexual violence with some sort of proof that a woman is highly beautiful and desired. I get jealous when I read about other, prettier, more successful women who have been assaulted. My therapist and I are going to spend a LOT of time figuring out what exactly happened in my life to make my brain think that way. Is it victim shaming or victim blaming to say I'm jealous of women who are assaulted? Many others will think so, but it's my truth, and lying about it is not going to help me in any way.

That believing that being sexually victimized is a sign of desirability is not unusual in people who have been sexually abused.  Though I have heard nothing of the origin of such beliefs, it may originate in some cases with abusers who told their child victims or implied to them that they, "can't help themselves," in their abusing the child, because of how "attractive" the child is.  One of the most painful things I learned about (while studying abuse and its treatment so I could help my clients), were instances when a mother was informed by her daughter that she had been sexually abused by the mother's boyfriend  The mother got angry at the daughter, as if the daughter was 'the other woman' and was trying to 'take her man away'.  Obviously from that, the untreated or unhealed sexual abuse of the mother (the most likely cause of such damaged thinking) results in causing even further damage to a next generation of victims than the abuse alone would have.


What you experienced is very powerful and very important. Owning it, living with it, and growing from it is taking responsibility, which, again, the Brock Turners and Benjamin Kellers of the world don't do.

Score one for the good guys!

Love, Anais

Agree.


PS: You have no control over her, so deciding to engage with her because you think it would help her is probably dangerous. If she reacts negatively, how will that make you feel when you thought you were helping her. Talk to and engage with her because it will help you, the only person in this world you are in control of. You can hope it helps her, but please don't think that you are some white knight and talking about this will save her. A) she is an adult and doesn't need a white knight and B) if she rebukes you, that might make you feel like an asshole again.

Very true.  VoC: talking to her would have to be about your experience and awareness for your own sake, not for what it might do for her.  But do not discount the value of your own possible need to do so!  And, although she might be likely to have a new layer of processing and healing from her experience with you letting her know of your newer awareness, as anais says, she may have negative reactions too.  It is much like what is taught to those who confront their abusers, just what anais said: it has to be for your healing, as you cannot control their response, and you would need to be prepared for anything from the best case scenario to the worst.  While I think the chances are good for her having a positive response (given that she has remained in contact with you since the event), it still could not be guaranteed.

Another aspect of this, that leads me to believe that she likely blames herself (a question posed by someone in a post early today), is her consumption of so much alcohol.  She very likely has thought it is all her fault for insisting on drinking the bottle of wine by herself, after specifically inviting you over, and then sexually 'attacking' you.  She, too, may have operated under the misinformation that alcohol is merely a disinhibiter, leaving her feeling it is 'all her'.


You realize that she continually violated your boundaries while she was drunk. If you say No, SHE should have stopped and her blaming it on the fact that she was drunk is no worse than Brock Turner blaming his thing on drinking.
It falls on the sober person to recognize the intoxicated person is not behaving rationally.   If the sober person continues to say no and the drunk person forces themself onto the sober person then it is the intoxicated person at fault.  But saying no and then deciding to say yes while the other person is still intoxicated is still the fault of the sober person.

Cultural bias does make it harder for a man to refuse, guys are never supposed to say no, and while a woman could kick the crap out of a guy while saying no it would not be seen the same way if a guy did the same while saying no.
So, she can blame the fact that she was drunk? That seems like a slippery slope. Do all women just get a pass? Should it always be the man's responsibility? That seems like a slippery slope too. But I'm sure I'm just victim blaming again (sarcasm).

I actually have a specific therapist for boundaries and consent. I will discuss it on Thursday.

She can't blame the fact that she was drunk for assaulting VoC.  That is 100% on her.  But, prior to the final outcome, VoC could have pried himself away from her and left without injuring her - because men are physically stronger than women in general.  And him having that responsibility is not because men need to be the responsible parties all the time, but because he was the one who was SOBER, that put him in the 'gatekeeper' position for how much he would participate in the events of the night.  The fact is that he 'gave in' and participated since it was someone who he had wanted to be with for a long time.  So the responsibility is split: her for initiating romantic/sexual contact while drunk and not taking his repeated 'no's as his response, and him for using society's distortions (e.g. alcohol=disinhibiter) as a personal rationalization at the time for ultimately joining in.

That leaves a mess, ultimately.  Neither was 100% responsible for the entire event, nor was either 100% victim.  But both participated in part, and both were victims in this event.

What each does with that is up to them.  VoC has already said what he plans to do, with teaching his children about responsibility and consent.  That is a very proactive way of dealing with it, by preventing future instances where such difficult and painful experiences could occur.  A good outcome, to help improve the future of this sick society.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 08:48:07 PM by LucasM »
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects


Offline MartyS (Gromit)

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #436 on: October 16, 2017, 08:35:36 PM »
She can't blame the fact that she was drunk for assaulting VoC.  That is 100% on her.  But, prior to the final outcome, VoC could have pried himself away from her and left without injuring her - because men are physically stronger than women in general.  And him having that responsibility is not because men need to be the responsible parties all the time, but because he was the one who was SOBER, that put him in the 'gatekeeper' position for how much he would participate in the events of the night.  The fact is that he 'gave in' and participated since it was someone who he had wanted to be with for a long time.  So the responsibility is split: her for initiating romantic/sexual contact while drunk and not taking his repeated 'no's as his response, and him for using society's distortions (e.g. alcohol=disinhibiter) as a personal rationalization at the time for ultimately joining in.

That leaves a mess, ultimately.  Neither was 100% responsible for the entire event, nor was either 100% victim.  But both participated in part, and both were victims in this event.

Yeah, this is probably the best way to describe the situation, I guess it comes down to how aggressive she was while VOC was saying no.

Don't know what to think of the Cracked article, was it to say a drunk no is the same as a drunk yes?  Neither one should hold up?  If the guy was too drunk to push her off him then yes it is rape.  Well, I guess if he was sober and said no but did nothing to stop her, it is still rape, it's the same as a situation where a woman freezes up when a guy gets aggressive, it just doesn't feel the same applying that to a guy.  I guess the article was a gender flip on the Brock Turner case?  To show he really was guilty, there were too many that seemed to be on his side just because he was almost as drunk as she was.


Offline anais.butterfly

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #437 on: October 17, 2017, 07:29:43 AM »
First, Cracked has not focused on only funny articles in at least a year. This one was interviewing a male rape victim. The point was, literally, men can be raped. Many people still don't think that's true.

Also, if a man wants to stop the women's flirtations and then uses his physical strength to stop her, does that become assault because, as Lucas said that I don't agree with, "men are stronger than women."

Sometimes there are situations where it is VERY clear who was in the wrong. Sometimes both parties made mistakes. One of the things about our society is we never talk about any of it. This and racism are times where we need to talk more and listen more. Hopefully with wise mind and not with our emotion mind.

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Offline RVR II

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #438 on: October 17, 2017, 07:37:26 AM »
I probably should have posted my incident here instead of the Completely Random Thoughts thread so I'll quote it here for some Anais (and others) feedback :o
Ok this is.. Weird..
A woman I dated briefly back in the mid-90s called me out of the blue a little while ago and sent her condolences for my wife. Her mother passed away back on April 10 so she's a mess emotionally so we talked for a couple of hours.. She's been through a lot with a psycho ex that was killed in a head on motorcycle crash back in 2015 and seeing this guy in his late 50s to early 60s (she's 40 I think), had a bankruptcy several years ago and has had either a drug or alcohol addiction that she's still recovering from but yeah she just calls me up out of the blue after all this time ??? Don't even know what to do with her :-\
She called again and wanted to meet up.. Oh boy.. :-\
I go to her apartment and she's so happy to see me after all this time and she wanted to go out somewhere so I took her to a restaurant we went to back 22 years ago because she hadn't been to the new location before. We caught up on old times on the way and while there.. Then she ordered a screwdriver and I asked if that was a good idea because of her issues from the past and she said it was ok and she would be fine.. Not even half way through the drink and she's ready to sleep with me! Literally, she wanted me to take her to my place and fuck!! I told her that we've both been through a lot of emotional trauma and I think we should hold off on that for now.. After 3 hours at the restaurant I take her home and on the way she became and emotional mess saying she didn't want to go back to her place because her boyfriend was gonna be there ... "WHAT?! I didn't know you were still seeing someone!!" I said adamantly! I told her that I don't need to be involved in this and reaching her apartment complex I drove around to another parking lot so that her boyfriend wouldn't look out the window and see her getting out of my van.. She didn't want to get out because she was scared he would beat her! I'm thinking to myself what the fuck did I just get myself into and said look I can't get involved with this and I wasn't bringing her to my place.. She started to come to her senses after passing out in the passenger's seat for 30 minutes and I'm sitting in the driver's seat wondering what the fuck I was going to do with her.. After waking up she apologized to me for dragging me into this and as she's fumbling around in her purse for her keys, a pint of Svedka Vodka falls out of her purse! I'm just quietly thinking to myself "PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETTHEFUCKOUT..." and before she finally does, she hugs me and kisses my neck saying she loves me 3 or 4 times before finally closing the door and then I bolted out of there and came home! :scared:

Yeah my first date since my wife's passing and now I'm ready to stay single for quite some time :speechless:


Offline Variety of Cells

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #439 on: October 17, 2017, 07:39:23 AM »
This should be taken as the joke it is meant to be, but I never in my life thought I’d have to defend myself against accusations that I’m not a rapist.

I do not remember any physical advances on me. It was all verbal. I was the one capable of making decisions, and I should have been aware that she was unable to make decisions. If this were to be taken to court, and if I wanted to be a douchebag, I do not think much would happen to me. Even if I were to tell the whole truth and not lie (which I easily could do), I don’t think much would happen to me.

But that doesn’t matter. What matters is that I have taken responsibility for my actions in a situation where I was in control. At no point was I forced to do anything, it was just my constitution that was slowly eroded out of a selfish desire. Should she have acted the way she did?  No, and obviously she regrets it. But I am the responsible party. 

I appreciate everyone’s responses. Anais’ female perspective has been invaluable and allowed me to better see how she might react. Marty’s thoughts have been susinct and illuminating. And Lucas, your posts have been very well thought out, completely coherent, and very educational. I really appreciate all the effort you have exerted to help me. You have given me a better understanding of what is going on in my head. So please, as a favor to me, take a break from this conversation for a few days. I think it has pretty much wound up, so please get some rest. And thank you all again.


Offline Russoguru

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #440 on: October 17, 2017, 08:24:19 AM »
I went to see my therapist yesterday. Lord knows what I would do without her. Over the past 2 and a half years or so she has gotten to know me extremely well because I have felt more than comfortable completely talking about my whole life to her. She told me that I just need to learn to forgive myself for things and to move ahead and to replace all my bad thoughts with good thoughts. Up front she asked me "What's one good thought you can focus on?". That kind of hit me out of nowhere because my brain is sometimes so dazed from the depression that it's hard to think of a good answer. I just kind of thought of a general answer to her question "That I'm a good person.", and she said "That's right, try and focus on that every time one of those negative thoughts swirls around in your head.".

I think most people should have a therapist. Without my therapist I wouldn't have learned about some very important interpersonal issues such as boundaries. Hell, I think that's a subject that in all honesty should be taught in High School FFS. I don't know how much things have changed since I was in high school, but some things really, really need to be taught early on. Things like manners, etiquette, boundaries, all need to be subjects with their own curriculum. Why can't we learn about that kind of thing in Social Studies? Shit, I don't remember any of those things being taught in school. We just learned a lot of stuff about English, Math, Science, History, Auto shop, Wood shop, Gym and all that other stuff. While those things are important I must stress the need for subjects like communication to be expanded upon so that everybody can have a chance to learn some important life lessons. I'm only speaking for myself here, but I can't tell you how many awkward situations and relationship drama that could have been avoided if I had known before hard the proper way to approach and deal with certain situations. I've had bad breakups with people, and I've lost friends over the years. While these things may not have always been completely my fault, I could have at least dealt with these losses more gracefully and with fewer tears.


Offline Variety of Cells

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #441 on: October 17, 2017, 08:34:42 AM »
I probably should have posted my incident here instead of the Completely Random Thoughts thread so I'll quote it here for some Anais (and others) feedback :o
Ok this is.. Weird..
A woman I dated briefly back in the mid-90s called me out of the blue a little while ago and sent her condolences for my wife. Her mother passed away back on April 10 so she's a mess emotionally so we talked for a couple of hours.. She's been through a lot with a psycho ex that was killed in a head on motorcycle crash back in 2015 and seeing this guy in his late 50s to early 60s (she's 40 I think), had a bankruptcy several years ago and has had either a drug or alcohol addiction that she's still recovering from but yeah she just calls me up out of the blue after all this time ??? Don't even know what to do with her :-\
She called again and wanted to meet up.. Oh boy.. :-\
I go to her apartment and she's so happy to see me after all this time and she wanted to go out somewhere so I took her to a restaurant we went to back 22 years ago because she hadn't been to the new location before. We caught up on old times on the way and while there.. Then she ordered a screwdriver and I asked if that was a good idea because of her issues from the past and she said it was ok and she would be fine.. Not even half way through the drink and she's ready to sleep with me! Literally, she wanted me to take her to my place and fuck!! I told her that we've both been through a lot of emotional trauma and I think we should hold off on that for now.. After 3 hours at the restaurant I take her home and on the way she became and emotional mess saying she didn't want to go back to her place because her boyfriend was gonna be there ... "WHAT?! I didn't know you were still seeing someone!!" I said adamantly! I told her that I don't need to be involved in this and reaching her apartment complex I drove around to another parking lot so that her boyfriend wouldn't look out the window and see her getting out of my van.. She didn't want to get out because she was scared he would beat her! I'm thinking to myself what the fuck did I just get myself into and said look I can't get involved with this and I wasn't bringing her to my place.. She started to come to her senses after passing out in the passenger's seat for 30 minutes and I'm sitting in the driver's seat wondering what the fuck I was going to do with her.. After waking up she apologized to me for dragging me into this and as she's fumbling around in her purse for her keys, a pint of Svedka Vodka falls out of her purse! I'm just quietly thinking to myself "PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETTHEFUCKOUT..." and before she finally does, she hugs me and kisses my neck saying she loves me 3 or 4 times before finally closing the door and then I bolted out of there and came home! :scared:

Yeah my first date since my wife's passing and now I'm ready to stay single for quite some time :speechless:

Have you heard from her since?  This was a little while ago as I remember. I hope you are both in better places.


Offline anais.butterfly

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #442 on: October 17, 2017, 08:37:10 AM »
I probably should have posted my incident here instead of the Completely Random Thoughts thread so I'll quote it here for some Anais (and others) feedback :o
Ok this is.. Weird..
A woman I dated briefly back in the mid-90s called me out of the blue a little while ago and sent her condolences for my wife. Her mother passed away back on April 10 so she's a mess emotionally so we talked for a couple of hours.. She's been through a lot with a psycho ex that was killed in a head on motorcycle crash back in 2015 and seeing this guy in his late 50s to early 60s (she's 40 I think), had a bankruptcy several years ago and has had either a drug or alcohol addiction that she's still recovering from but yeah she just calls me up out of the blue after all this time ??? Don't even know what to do with her :-\
She called again and wanted to meet up.. Oh boy.. :-\
I go to her apartment and she's so happy to see me after all this time and she wanted to go out somewhere so I took her to a restaurant we went to back 22 years ago because she hadn't been to the new location before. We caught up on old times on the way and while there.. Then she ordered a screwdriver and I asked if that was a good idea because of her issues from the past and she said it was ok and she would be fine.. Not even half way through the drink and she's ready to sleep with me! Literally, she wanted me to take her to my place and fuck!! I told her that we've both been through a lot of emotional trauma and I think we should hold off on that for now.. After 3 hours at the restaurant I take her home and on the way she became and emotional mess saying she didn't want to go back to her place because her boyfriend was gonna be there ... "WHAT?! I didn't know you were still seeing someone!!" I said adamantly! I told her that I don't need to be involved in this and reaching her apartment complex I drove around to another parking lot so that her boyfriend wouldn't look out the window and see her getting out of my van.. She didn't want to get out because she was scared he would beat her! I'm thinking to myself what the fuck did I just get myself into and said look I can't get involved with this and I wasn't bringing her to my place.. She started to come to her senses after passing out in the passenger's seat for 30 minutes and I'm sitting in the driver's seat wondering what the fuck I was going to do with her.. After waking up she apologized to me for dragging me into this and as she's fumbling around in her purse for her keys, a pint of Svedka Vodka falls out of her purse! I'm just quietly thinking to myself "PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETTHEFUCKOUT..." and before she finally does, she hugs me and kisses my neck saying she loves me 3 or 4 times before finally closing the door and then I bolted out of there and came home! :scared:

Yeah my first date since my wife's passing and now I'm ready to stay single for quite some time :speechless:

Ghost* that crazy person. She is clearly addicted to drama (and alcohol).




*I am perfectly ok with Ghosting in certain circumstances. This is one. 
Anais is the Coolest Butterfly I know  ;D


Offline Russoguru

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #443 on: October 17, 2017, 08:40:16 AM »
That is probably another reason I avoid relationships. Not just because of my financial situation, there's not just the potential for unhealthy drama, but you never truly know a person until you've spent so much time with them. Some people put up a veneer where they seem to be totally in control of themselves, but sometimes you never know how a person may act or behave when that veneer disappears and you're left wondering WTF to do.


Offline anais.butterfly

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #444 on: October 17, 2017, 08:45:16 AM »
That is probably another reason I avoid relationships. Not just because of my financial situation, there's not just the potential for unhealthy drama, but you never truly know a person until you've spent so much time with them. Some people put up a veneer where they seem to be totally in control of themselves, but sometimes you never know how a person may act or behave when that veneer disappears and you're left wondering WTF to do.

That's basically what Benjamin did. But the more he became unraveled, the more I realized he was manipulating me, the more violent he got, the more I was willing to call the cops.

BTW, the day I finally called the cops on him, he was mostly finished with his yelling/assaulting fit, and I was in my room watching Game of Thrones and HE KEPT INTERRUPTING ME TO YELL AT ME MORE. By the third time, I called the cops.

So, for the rest of my life, I can say this: "You know what happened to the last person who disturbed me during Game of Thrones!"
Anais is the Coolest Butterfly I know  ;D


Offline RVR II

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #445 on: October 17, 2017, 08:49:59 AM »
I probably should have posted my incident here instead of the Completely Random Thoughts thread so I'll quote it here for some Anais (and others) feedback :o
Ok this is.. Weird..
A woman I dated briefly back in the mid-90s called me out of the blue a little while ago and sent her condolences for my wife. Her mother passed away back on April 10 so she's a mess emotionally so we talked for a couple of hours.. She's been through a lot with a psycho ex that was killed in a head on motorcycle crash back in 2015 and seeing this guy in his late 50s to early 60s (she's 40 I think), had a bankruptcy several years ago and has had either a drug or alcohol addiction that she's still recovering from but yeah she just calls me up out of the blue after all this time ??? Don't even know what to do with her :-\
She called again and wanted to meet up.. Oh boy.. :-\
I go to her apartment and she's so happy to see me after all this time and she wanted to go out somewhere so I took her to a restaurant we went to back 22 years ago because she hadn't been to the new location before. We caught up on old times on the way and while there.. Then she ordered a screwdriver and I asked if that was a good idea because of her issues from the past and she said it was ok and she would be fine.. Not even half way through the drink and she's ready to sleep with me! Literally, she wanted me to take her to my place and fuck!! I told her that we've both been through a lot of emotional trauma and I think we should hold off on that for now.. After 3 hours at the restaurant I take her home and on the way she became and emotional mess saying she didn't want to go back to her place because her boyfriend was gonna be there ... "WHAT?! I didn't know you were still seeing someone!!" I said adamantly! I told her that I don't need to be involved in this and reaching her apartment complex I drove around to another parking lot so that her boyfriend wouldn't look out the window and see her getting out of my van.. She didn't want to get out because she was scared he would beat her! I'm thinking to myself what the fuck did I just get myself into and said look I can't get involved with this and I wasn't bringing her to my place.. She started to come to her senses after passing out in the passenger's seat for 30 minutes and I'm sitting in the driver's seat wondering what the fuck I was going to do with her.. After waking up she apologized to me for dragging me into this and as she's fumbling around in her purse for her keys, a pint of Svedka Vodka falls out of her purse! I'm just quietly thinking to myself "PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETTHEFUCKOUT..." and before she finally does, she hugs me and kisses my neck saying she loves me 3 or 4 times before finally closing the door and then I bolted out of there and came home! :scared:

Yeah my first date since my wife's passing and now I'm ready to stay single for quite some time :speechless:

Ghost* that crazy person. She is clearly addicted to drama (and alcohol).




*I am perfectly ok with Ghosting in certain circumstances. This is one.
K.. Maybe I'm old but what's Ghosting ???


Offline MartyS (Gromit)

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #446 on: October 17, 2017, 09:18:14 AM »
I probably should have posted my incident here instead of the Completely Random Thoughts thread so I'll quote it here for some Anais (and others) feedback :o
Ok this is.. Weird..
A woman I dated briefly back in the mid-90s called me out of the blue a little while ago and sent her condolences for my wife. Her mother passed away back on April 10 so she's a mess emotionally so we talked for a couple of hours.. She's been through a lot with a psycho ex that was killed in a head on motorcycle crash back in 2015 and seeing this guy in his late 50s to early 60s (she's 40 I think), had a bankruptcy several years ago and has had either a drug or alcohol addiction that she's still recovering from but yeah she just calls me up out of the blue after all this time ??? Don't even know what to do with her :-\
She called again and wanted to meet up.. Oh boy.. :-\
I go to her apartment and she's so happy to see me after all this time and she wanted to go out somewhere so I took her to a restaurant we went to back 22 years ago because she hadn't been to the new location before. We caught up on old times on the way and while there.. Then she ordered a screwdriver and I asked if that was a good idea because of her issues from the past and she said it was ok and she would be fine.. Not even half way through the drink and she's ready to sleep with me! Literally, she wanted me to take her to my place and fuck!! I told her that we've both been through a lot of emotional trauma and I think we should hold off on that for now.. After 3 hours at the restaurant I take her home and on the way she became and emotional mess saying she didn't want to go back to her place because her boyfriend was gonna be there ... "WHAT?! I didn't know you were still seeing someone!!" I said adamantly! I told her that I don't need to be involved in this and reaching her apartment complex I drove around to another parking lot so that her boyfriend wouldn't look out the window and see her getting out of my van.. She didn't want to get out because she was scared he would beat her! I'm thinking to myself what the fuck did I just get myself into and said look I can't get involved with this and I wasn't bringing her to my place.. She started to come to her senses after passing out in the passenger's seat for 30 minutes and I'm sitting in the driver's seat wondering what the fuck I was going to do with her.. After waking up she apologized to me for dragging me into this and as she's fumbling around in her purse for her keys, a pint of Svedka Vodka falls out of her purse! I'm just quietly thinking to myself "PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETTHEFUCKOUT..." and before she finally does, she hugs me and kisses my neck saying she loves me 3 or 4 times before finally closing the door and then I bolted out of there and came home! :scared:

Yeah my first date since my wife's passing and now I'm ready to stay single for quite some time :speechless:

Ghost* that crazy person. She is clearly addicted to drama (and alcohol).




*I am perfectly ok with Ghosting in certain circumstances. This is one.
K.. Maybe I'm old but what's Ghosting ???

Cutting them out, not returning calls or messages.


Offline RVR II

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #447 on: October 17, 2017, 09:24:08 AM »
I probably should have posted my incident here instead of the Completely Random Thoughts thread so I'll quote it here for some Anais (and others) feedback :o
Ok this is.. Weird..
A woman I dated briefly back in the mid-90s called me out of the blue a little while ago and sent her condolences for my wife. Her mother passed away back on April 10 so she's a mess emotionally so we talked for a couple of hours.. She's been through a lot with a psycho ex that was killed in a head on motorcycle crash back in 2015 and seeing this guy in his late 50s to early 60s (she's 40 I think), had a bankruptcy several years ago and has had either a drug or alcohol addiction that she's still recovering from but yeah she just calls me up out of the blue after all this time ??? Don't even know what to do with her :-\
She called again and wanted to meet up.. Oh boy.. :-\
I go to her apartment and she's so happy to see me after all this time and she wanted to go out somewhere so I took her to a restaurant we went to back 22 years ago because she hadn't been to the new location before. We caught up on old times on the way and while there.. Then she ordered a screwdriver and I asked if that was a good idea because of her issues from the past and she said it was ok and she would be fine.. Not even half way through the drink and she's ready to sleep with me! Literally, she wanted me to take her to my place and fuck!! I told her that we've both been through a lot of emotional trauma and I think we should hold off on that for now.. After 3 hours at the restaurant I take her home and on the way she became and emotional mess saying she didn't want to go back to her place because her boyfriend was gonna be there ... "WHAT?! I didn't know you were still seeing someone!!" I said adamantly! I told her that I don't need to be involved in this and reaching her apartment complex I drove around to another parking lot so that her boyfriend wouldn't look out the window and see her getting out of my van.. She didn't want to get out because she was scared he would beat her! I'm thinking to myself what the fuck did I just get myself into and said look I can't get involved with this and I wasn't bringing her to my place.. She started to come to her senses after passing out in the passenger's seat for 30 minutes and I'm sitting in the driver's seat wondering what the fuck I was going to do with her.. After waking up she apologized to me for dragging me into this and as she's fumbling around in her purse for her keys, a pint of Svedka Vodka falls out of her purse! I'm just quietly thinking to myself "PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETOUT-PLEASEGETTHEFUCKOUT..." and before she finally does, she hugs me and kisses my neck saying she loves me 3 or 4 times before finally closing the door and then I bolted out of there and came home! :scared:

Yeah my first date since my wife's passing and now I'm ready to stay single for quite some time :speechless:

Ghost* that crazy person. She is clearly addicted to drama (and alcohol).




*I am perfectly ok with Ghosting in certain circumstances. This is one.
K.. Maybe I'm old but what's Ghosting ???

Cutting them out, not returning calls or messages.
Ah ok cause she's tried contacting me a couple days after this happened and I ignored her, then nothing till October 5th when she messaged me inviting me to meet her at Applebees for dinner and I never responded again so I'm Ghosting her pretty well then 8)


Offline Russoguru

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #448 on: October 17, 2017, 09:28:51 AM »
That is probably another reason I avoid relationships. Not just because of my financial situation, there's not just the potential for unhealthy drama, but you never truly know a person until you've spent so much time with them. Some people put up a veneer where they seem to be totally in control of themselves, but sometimes you never know how a person may act or behave when that veneer disappears and you're left wondering WTF to do.

That's basically what Benjamin did. But the more he became unraveled, the more I realized he was manipulating me, the more violent he got, the more I was willing to call the cops.

BTW, the day I finally called the cops on him, he was mostly finished with his yelling/assaulting fit, and I was in my room watching Game of Thrones and HE KEPT INTERRUPTING ME TO YELL AT ME MORE. By the third time, I called the cops.

So, for the rest of my life, I can say this: "You know what happened to the last person who disturbed me during Game of Thrones!"
As much as I hate to say it, there is just so much potential for shit to come with relationships. They're like a double edged sword. They have their good points, but they can be a huge burden too.

Also RVR I'm sure that ghosting will work after some time. Some people are thick but they'll eventually get the point and back off.


Offline LucasM

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Re: General Psychology Thread (for non-emergency and long-term issues)
« Reply #449 on: October 17, 2017, 12:10:15 PM »
Also, if a man wants to stop the women's flirtations and then uses his physical strength to stop her, does that become assault because, as Lucas said that I don't agree with, "men are stronger than women."

You mis-read what I wrote:

But, prior to the final outcome, VoC could have pried himself away from her and left without injuring her - because men are physically stronger than women in general.

"in general" is an important qualifier in that sentence.

I realize I wrote a lot and so bits could be missed here and there, but I just wanted to make sure that was clear.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 01:15:53 PM by LucasM »
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects