Penn and Teller: BS!

[Rufus T]

 I like the episode they did on recycling. I've tried to tell some of my friends about it but they usually stop me right after I explain that Penn and Teller say that recycling is bullshit. Once they hear that then they pretty much assume that Bullshit is nothing but bullshit.

[RandyMistie]

I like the episode they did on recycling. I've tried to tell some of my friends about it but they usually stop me right after I explain that Penn and Teller say that recycling is bullshit. Once they hear that then they pretty much assume that Bullshit is nothing but bullshit.

Yeah, it's bloody amazing how touchy people get when you step on these "sacred cows".  People WANT to believe so bad that everything is going to be OK, that when you show them a fact like, 80% of all recycling programs across the country are cheated on, they just squeeze their eyes shut, stick their fingers in their ears and sing, "LALALALALA, I can't hear you...!"

I mean, what do they think?  The mob that controls sanitation is going to go out of their way to take your bottles to a recycling plant?  If they can take a short cut they will, that's what organized crime does!  Just deal with it.  Either work to change it, or accept it.

As a disclaimer: I am certainly not saying that ALL sanitation in this country is controlled by the mob, (I personally don't think organized crime is always a bad thing, but that's another thread...) but you have to admit, a good deal of it is, in some way, influenced by The Organization.  Maybe not in Utah...

[pyro]

Yeah, it's bloody amazing how touchy people get when you step on these "sacred cows".  People WANT to believe so bad that everything is going to be OK, that when you show them a fact like, 80% of all recycling programs across the country are cheated on, they just squeeze their eyes shut, stick their fingers in their ears and sing, "LALALALALA, I can't hear you...!"

The greatest example of that actually on the show was when they merely brought up the fact that some people critisize the idea of pet psychics to the people who use them with their pets and they instantly went from pleasant to upset and offended yelling "I AM NOT CRAZY!!"

[Sharktopus]

I love my pets more than most of my human family, and I like to think of myself as open-minded, but I can't help but snort derisively when I hear the term "pet psychic." It's a reflex - like closing your eyes when you sneeze.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

ive always liked dogberts concept of the furniture psychic. lol

[gbeenie]

No, Randy, people want to believe that things are NOT going to be OK, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. In fact, Penn himself put it best in the film Michael Moore Hates America: "[when you look at history]...in fifty-year hunks, 100-year hunks, you'll find two things are always true: one is, the world is always getting better; and two is, people always think it's getting worse."

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

again i agree with ya beenie

[pyro]

I think I've agreed with gbeenie on almost everything (can think of at least one thing) too.... 


is Michael Moore Hates America any good?  I'm a little afraid to watch it for the same reason I am Fahrenheit 911

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

i saw one i liked.  it was called farenhype 911. 

[gbeenie]

I think I've agreed with gbeenie on almost everything (can think of at least one thing) too.... 


is Michael Moore Hates America any good?  I'm a little afraid to watch it for the same reason I am Fahrenheit 911

It's really good. It's not just about pointing out Moore's use of editing tricks, out-of-context sound bites, and outright lies, which is a good thing, as that information is everywhere (fish in barrel, meet shotgun); director Mike Wilson also refutes Moore's very negative attitude about America (in a very positive way, no less), and he explores what it means to be an ethical documentarian (even leveling some criticism at himself in the process).

All in all, very enjoyable and highly recommended.

[pyro]

sae - is the whole purpose refuting Farenheight 9/11?  and do they actually use any of his tricks in trying to refute whatever it is?

beenie - the fact that he levels critcism at himself (as well as the fact Penn is in it) makes me really interested in it..... i think i may have to check it out...

[RandyMistie]

No, Randy, people want to believe that things are NOT going to be OK, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. In fact, Penn himself put it best in the film Michael Moore Hates America: "[when you look at history]...in fifty-year hunks, 100-year hunks, you'll find two things are always true: one is, the world is always getting better; and two is, people always think it's getting worse."

The world is always getting better?  I don't know that I agree with that.  Carl Sagan, (a fellow member of CSICOP with Penn) talked about our Technological Adolescence and whether we would survive it, and I don't know if we really can.  The genie seems to be out of that particular bottle...

But, what the hell, I got no kids, I got maybe another 20 years on the planet so what the hell do I care if it gets better or worse.  I have no optimism or pessimism for the human species.  I look at it all with bemused detatchment.  Life will go on with or without humans around, always has always will, (well for another 15 billion years til the sun explodes anyway...)

George Carlin, "Life begins at conception?  I say life began 3 billion years ago and it just keeps on going... just keeps on going..."

[gbeenie]

But all you have to do is look at the last fifty years of human history (I'm not even gonna mention the past 100 years, as that would be too easy), and the amazing things that been done to improve the human condition worldwide; that, coupled with the ever-accelerating pace of technological advances, can only be reasonably met with optimism about the future. In my view, it's the pessimists of the world who are generally ignoring important facts that surround them every day.

[RandyMistie]

But all you have to do is look at the last fifty years of human history (I'm not even gonna mention the past 100 years, as that would be too easy), and the amazing things that been done to improve the human condition worldwide; that, coupled with the ever-accelerating pace of technological advances, can only be reasonably met with optimism about the future. In my view, it's the pessimists of the world who are generally ignoring important facts that surround them every day.

Well, that may be true for you and me and much of the Western World, but the fact remains that at least 1 billion, maybe 2 billion people, (depending on which study you go by the CDC or the recent JAMA review), still live in bone crushing poverty, slavery and slums.  Maybe fully a third of the world's population have no idea that any wonderful technological advances have made their lives better.

And these amazing things have had a huge negative impact on our environmental niche.  Now, I say OUR environmental niche because I have no such silliness in my head that we are hurting the planet in any way.  We are hurting ourselves.  Once we kill ourselves off, the planet will take a scant 2 or 3 million years to renew itself and be a paradise again.  Hell, it only needs a couple of microbes to survive and it can spring back in just a few hundred million years.  That's the source of my optimism.  Life is eternal, just not maybe HUMAN life.

But like I say, it's no big deal.  There are no losers here.  Life just keeps on going.  The same amount of matter and energy that the Earth had 4 billion years ago is still here.  It just keeps getting recycled into different forms.  The dinosaurs are still here, only now they keep our SUV's going!

[ScottotD]

I find it funny that certain people seem to point out the sites/media who oppose Michael Moore as if they're unquestionably pure fact while pointing out that his movies do nothing but lie.