Star Trek 2009 sucks!

[Russell]

Did he admit having Asperger's or anything else? If he did, I didn’t see it. Somebody please point it out.
It's not the point anyway. Whether or not therapy would prove successful has nothing to do with it. The point is taking steps to attempt to improve your situation. Has he done anything about this?
And don't give me that horseshit about monetary circumstances. Why is someone in such dire economic straits pondering whether to buy a 360 or a PS3?

It's part of the disorder Barnes! IF he does have Asperger's(Somebody in this thread told me that
he said he did) then part of that disorder is that priorities are NOT in order. Now you can either do one
of three things: continue to ridicule the man, try to help him or ignore him altogether. You don't have to
help him or even converse with him, but you don't have to ridicule him either.

[Thrifty]

And don't give me that horseshit about monetary circumstances. Why is someone in such dire economic straits pondering whether to buy a 360 or a PS3? Why does this same person regularly post his latest Blu-Ray purchases that further fill up his massive collection. Why is this person planning to buy a Kindle? This money could and should be going to therapy and, if necessary, medication. The poverty argument, much like most of his arguments, has zero credibility.

I'm gonna point out as an addendum that the state of Delaware, where both he and I live (though thankfully on opposite ends of the state) has Medicaid and free mental health services.  My best friend has numerous mental health issues stretching back to her childhood.  She's also flat broke.  Yet she still manages to keep it together and get the help she needs.

I don't understand exactly what we're expected to do in the name of kindness and decency.  Many of us have tried to be understanding in the past, but he just ran roughshod over us.  He has some freakout, gets flustered and leaves, and then the very next day or even often later the same day he comes right back like nothing ever happened.  Over and over and over again, month after month, year after year.

I myself was majorly messed up in 2005 and 2006.  I was needy, obsessive, overbearing, violently angry.  It reached a point where I was screaming in anger at my three year old nephew for accidentally letting the dog out, and I ruined my brother's birthday party.  At about the same time, I sent a series of horrible, hateful E-Mails to my best friend which pretty much destroyed our relationship for the next 4 years.  I am truly blessed that she forgave me and our relationship is stronger now than ever.

But you know what the difference here is?  I realized I was bothering people and I changed.  Had I been more like Doctor Who, I would to this day be yelling at people, hurting them, being needy, clingy, and obsessive.  I would make insincere and half-assed attempts to change, and when pressed, act all persecuted and blame everything on my condition.

The path Gunflyer suggests is one of appeasement and enabling behavior.  It sends the message that this is okay.  That when you feel angry you can just vent, and there are no consequences.  It sends the message that you can emotionally blackmail people into being nice to you by playing on their sense of pity.  "Oh, don't be mean to him.  He has a mental illness."  Meanwhile he's saying that you should be dragged out into the street and shot, or saying things about rich people and Republicans that are so vile that if you simply substituted the word "Jew" you would have something right out of a Nazi manifesto.  But no, it's all okay, because he has a condition!

If he can stay away for 1 month, then come back, and apologize, and show us, I mean REALLY show us, that he's making an effort to change, I can be persuaded to be forgiving.  But my supply of forgiveness and patience is very short right now.

[Thrifty]

I think the points that Gunflyer and I are trying to make are

1. That may seem easy to you, but you have no idea.
2. He'd respond better and be more motivated to take those steps if he felt any sort of civility at all around here.
3. He will never be cured of this and the understanding individual would learn to ignore and not egg him on when he screws up.

And I get that some of you are not understanding people nor do you care to be.

And the point you are missing is that we tried #2.

To reiterate something Wurwolf said, we are not his family or his therapist.  We are casual acquaintances on the Internet, and it is not our job to put up with this shit.

Exactly what course of treatment are you suggesting when he spews hate and bigotry?  If I came in and said "My neighborhood is full of filthy niggers driving down the property values and destroying the town.  We need to round them up and give them their own neighborhood where they can be with their own kind and leave white people alone." would you advocate care and understanding?

[doggans]

Did he admit having Asperger's or anything else? If he did, I didn’t see it. Somebody please point it out.

A quick forum search brings up this post.

I've always been somewhat sympathetic toward Doc, but I'm also sympathetic to the people who are fed up with him. I've done my best to be patient with him and engage him in rational discussion over the years. It hasn't exactly been fruitful.

[RVR II]

[D.B. Barnes]

The point is taking steps to attempt to improve your situation. Has he done anything about this?

Yeah cause crazy people are great at self identifying and getting help. 

That's horseshit as well! Doesn't he live with his family? Hasn't he admitted on numerous occasion that he has major behavior problems?

You got anything to say about the rest of my post, or are you just cherry-pickin' as usual?

Yay the rest of your post is horseshit that does not deserve attention.  You have no idea what is money situation is and your conjecture about it is worthless. You have even less information on what crazy people are like.  Your lack of empathy for him is established, we get you do not like him and do care about him.  Got it.  Great.  You ought to care about him because it is the right and moral thing to do.  You clearly do not care about that either.   I doubt your the type who actual bothers with introspection, meaning you are not going to actually think about the value of your actions toward him.  Therefore there is no reason to try to convince you of about the morality of treating someone you do not like with respect.  You will do what you want no matter, and you will not pause long enough to evaluate why.  

Quit trying to add your opinion on doc you have established it fully.  

I also like how you believe fully that he lives with his family but think his money problem are false because it is inconvenient to your argument that he cannot be trusted.  

How is it horseshit? And don't give me this ridiculous high-and-mighty act like you're some fucking saint who's never gotten into to it with the guy. That's a joke.

And where did I say I didn't believe his monetary situation? I'm commenting on his monetary choices. Don't talk to me about "inconvenient to the argument." You wrote the book on that. And are you saying he doesn't live with his family? And again (to Gunflyer), if his priorities are fucked up, why isn't anyone helping him manage that, as in the family he lives with?

I'll quit adding my opinion about Doctor Who? when Gunflyer stops insisting on trying to change people's opinions.

Thanks doggans. I appreciate the info. However, it doesn't change anything I've written.

[Russell]

I'll quit adding my opinion about Doctor Who? when Gunflyer stops insisting on trying to change people's opinions.

Barnes I'm not trying to change your opinion, I would just like you to consider your options
when it comes to the man.

[D.B. Barnes]

I'll quit adding my opinion about Doctor Who? when Gunflyer stops insisting on trying to change people's opinions.

Barnes I'm not trying to change your opinion, I would just like you to consider your options
when it comes to the man.

That's what we keep trying to get across you. We've not only considered other options, but we've tried them over and over and over again. It's accomplished absolutely nothing!

[Invader_quirk]

Because your goal is to fix him. Can't do it. Won't happen. The goal should be to coexist and appreciate his good posts, which DO exist. If we're lucky, his crazy posts will go down.

EDIT: And I get it's way harder than people want to deal with. I don't think badly of anybody for wanting the guy to just leave. But PLEASE don't act like the people trying to reach out to the guy are pious assholes who just want to look down on everybody.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

The path Gunflyer suggests is one of appeasement and enabling behavior.  It sends the message that this is okay.  That when you feel angry you can just vent, and there are no consequences.  It sends the message that you can emotionally blackmail people into being nice to you by playing on their sense of pity.  "Oh, don't be mean to him.  He has a mental illness."  Meanwhile he's saying that you should be dragged out into the street and shot, or saying things about rich people and Republicans that are so vile that if you simply substituted the word "Jew" you would have something right out of a Nazi manifesto.  But no, it's all okay, because he has a condition

You do not have to say everything is alright to be polite to him.  You can tell him he is out of line without insulting the guy.  I am positive a therapist is not going to cuss him out to correct him.  You are absolutely right we should not appease his insanity, but it really is a matter of how you go about correcting that.  

And the point you are missing is that we tried #2

We can try and claim that we did, but this is not entirely true and we know it.  Especially not since the mantra around here is (as of late) we have tried to be nice it did not work therefore it is his fault.  

Which is a shame because fault does not enter into it.  

How is it horseshit? And don't give me this ridiculous high-and-mighty act like you're some fucking saint who's never gotten into to it with the guy. That's a joke.

Heh now who is going off the rails.  I never said/implied or made any comment that could ever be confused as such.  

You wrote the book on that. And are you saying he doesn't live with his family?

No I made it pretty clear that if you feel his argument holds no water about how dire his financial situation is, then why bother randomly picking things to believe about him?

However, it doesn't change anything I've written

Which pretty much is justifies everything I typed about you.  

Posted on: Today at 03:53:06 PM Posted by: Invader_quirk
Insert Quote
Because your goal is to fix him. Can't do it. Won't happen. The goal should be to coexist and appreciate his good posts, which DO exist. If we're lucky, his crazy posts will go down.

Bingo

[Russell]

That's what we keep trying to get across you. We've not only considered other options, but we've tried them over and over and over again. It's accomplished absolutely nothing!

In this world we make dispensations for people who have serious disorders. As far as I'm
concerned, I would continue putting up with him because alienating a person is in my
opinion unethical and just not the right thing to do.

The path Gunflyer suggests is one of appeasement and enabling behavior.  It sends the message that this is okay.  That when you feel angry you can just vent, and there are no consequences.  

No, I would not suggest that, I even suggested publicly on this forum that he should ignore people who aggravate
him, if for no other reason then to prevent more drama and hurt feelings on both sides. I in no way suggested
that his behavior was okay, I do however suggest that little to nothing can be done about the disorder.

If you look at forum members in some way as extended family at all, then I hope you'll take to heart my suggestion
that you continue to put up with one another. You don't have to appease, enable or anything, but there is no reason
to hound a person because of their insurmountable faults.

I know that people on this forum purposely pushed his hot buttons regarding religion, full well knowing
how he might react.

[Thrifty]

Because your goal is to fix him. Can't do it. Won't happen. The goal should be to coexist and appreciate his good posts, which DO exist. If we're lucky, his crazy posts will go down.

EDIT: And I get it's way harder than people want to deal with. I don't think badly of anybody for wanting the guy to just leave. But PLEASE don't act like the people trying to reach out to the guy are pious assholes who just want to look down on everybody.

I don't think you're pious or snooty.  I just think you're a little naive.  Peaceful coexistence requires cooperation on the part of both parties, which is something we haven't been getting.

[D.B. Barnes]

How is it horseshit? And don't give me this ridiculous high-and-mighty act like you're some fucking saint who's never gotten into to it with the guy. That's a joke.

Heh now who is going off the rails.  I never said/implied or made any comment that could ever be confused as such.

Bullshit. You're all of sudden taking some compassionate high-road when you've completely fucked with him in the past. That should make you no better than me in your own eyes. Everything you typed about me, you might as well type about yourself.

You wrote the book on that. And are you saying he doesn't live with his family?

No I made it pretty clear that if you feel his argument holds no water about how dire his financial situation is, then why bother randomly picking things to believe about him?

Jesus. You're completely missing the point on this. My point is that while his economic situation may be bad, he's making terrible choices with the money he has. How is that not clear?

However, it doesn't change anything I've written

Which pretty much is justifies everything I typed about you.

Whatever. You can think I'm a horrible, immoral person, but while your judging me, try using a little of that introspection on yourself.

[Invader_quirk]

I don't think you're pious or snooty.  I just think you're a little naive.  Peaceful coexistence requires cooperation on the part of both parties, which is something we haven't been getting.

Well, like I said, I have known somebody with asperger's for many years. I do know what to expect. My friend annoys me fairly often, and he'll never be a friend to me like I am to him. I don't mean that he doesn't like me, but that we just can't really talk or interact like two normal people. He'll always be weird in kind of a bad way and he'll always fly off the handle randomly, but it's gotten a little better because I don't egg him on, and I overlook his slips. He'll always be a bit of a burden, but I'm his friend because he needs a friend, and when he can articulate it, he let's me know that I've helped him in this way. I know you say you've tried the understanding route, but I'll be honest, and I mean no offense, but I've only see a few half-hearted attempts and I've been here a while.

So, yeah, it's pretty one-sided. If that doesn't sound worth while to you, then, well, I'm not surprised. Logically, there's no reason to do it.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

Because your goal is to fix him. Can't do it. Won't happen. The goal should be to coexist and appreciate his good posts, which DO exist. If we're lucky, his crazy posts will go down.

EDIT: And I get it's way harder than people want to deal with. I don't think badly of anybody for wanting the guy to just leave. But PLEASE don't act like the people trying to reach out to the guy are pious assholes who just want to look down on everybody.

I don't think you're pious or snooty.  I just think you're a little naive.  Peaceful coexistence requires cooperation on the part of both parties, which is something we haven't been getting.

An interesting concept.  What does it mean on a larger scale?  Is this true of the Taliban and places like Iran?  I am asking just because it is an interesting thought is all.  

That should make you no better than me in your own eyes.

I do not think I AM any better than you.  Again where did you get that absurd idea.  The only thing I see is different here at the moment is I can occasionally take a look back at what I have said/done and say I was wrong.  

If you are talking about the Kim Il Sung thing I was saying to him, you are probably right I should not have done that.  However I do think there was a rather uncanny similarity between Kims policies and what doc was saying in the thread.  I still do.  

You can think I'm a horrible, immoral person,

Did not say you were.  i said you lack compassion about someone you do not like, and you have no interest in changing your mind.  Which is an immoral thing.  I'm sure on a day to day basis your average dealings with others mean you are a decent guy.