login

Author Topic: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?  (Read 47783 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline D.B. Barnes

  • Grendel's Mom
  • ***
  • Posts: 9952
  • Liked: 6621
  • "AMIRITE?!?"
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #60 on: October 20, 2011, 10:15:23 PM »
I'm starting to wonder about this myself. I enjoy the show, but it could really benefit from an underlying driving story element. The pursuit by the detective doesn't quite qualify as that. I really hope at some point they develop an adversarial relationship with a real shadowy government antagonist. There's plenty of opportunity to introduce that; the setup is there and the themes are there. For some reason, I don't think Nolan would be at all satisfied with just a week-to-week cop drama. I'd think he would aspire to something bigger and more meaningful than that.

I mean heck, even Hawaii Five-0 set up a fairly compelling underlying story that has driven the core of the show. I'd expect at least as much, if not a lot more, coming from someone with Nolan's creative talents. And yes, I watch Hawaii Five-0. Big whoop, wanna fight about it?  ;D
VIVA IL ESORDIO DEL DIABETE ADULTO DUCE!!!


Offline LucasM

  • Ephialtes
  • *****
  • Posts: 7556
  • Liked: 4662
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2011, 01:48:33 AM »
No, not here to fight about Hawaii 5-O.   ;D

The thing I keep thinking back to is an article I read (god knows where and god knows when [but I think within the last 2-3 years, and chances are either on-line or during a brief time where I subscribed to TV Guide before realizing that it was totally useless]) where broadcast stations were trying to get away from long-term series plots as they didn't think that the public 'liked' them.  The people in charge apparently believed that the majority of people want a show that has a certain status quo at the beginning, stuff happens, but the exact same status is exactly as much quo at the end.  ;)  You know: brain-dead television.

I hope that I'm wrong, but they may be pointing to series like 'Fringe' and saying, "see: here's a show with a long-term storyline, and look at how borderline the ratings are!"  [That, ignoring completely the fact that it is a 'fringe' genre (deep sub-atomic physics sci-fi, mixed with horror is hardly mainstream [though it should be  ;D ]).]  But it's possible I read that explanation more years ago than I thought, because I have this vague feeling that that may have been one of the reasons that was given as to why Fox so thoroughly f*cked Firefly in the @$$: they didn't want a show with long-term storylines.  [Then why did the idiots hire Whedon - the virtual KING of long-term storylines - to develop a show for them in the first place?  (Because they are brain-dead executives.)]
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects


Offline TheUnabeefer

  • Bilbo Baggins Balladeer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4211
  • Liked: 937
  • I am a flying cow... worship me or DIE!!!
    • The Unabeefer Beefs
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2011, 03:20:15 PM »
I also keep having a feeling they will get into a bigger story with Person of Interest.... They vaguely hint at something more having gone on with Ben Linus... and occasionally a much much darker history of Jesus there too....

The episode with Goodwin was a nice slight glimpse into the bigger picture.  I'm just hoping they're doing how Fringe did it, where the first half of the first season had little-to-no signs of anything larger and then BAM!!

I still have hopes for it.
...and there he was, reigning supreme at number two.  The One... The Only... The Unabeefer.



Offline D.B. Barnes

  • Grendel's Mom
  • ***
  • Posts: 9952
  • Liked: 6621
  • "AMIRITE?!?"
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2011, 05:02:15 PM »
VIVA IL ESORDIO DEL DIABETE ADULTO DUCE!!!


Invader_quirk

  • Guest
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2011, 05:32:45 PM »
What's even worse than a drama that doesn't establish any sort of long-term story is one that ACTS like there's a long term story, but they have no intention of ending it until they're about to be cancelled. I need to believe the story is going somewhere or I lose interest. If it wants to have an impact, a drama should be planned to end, in my opinion.

Of course, networks don't like this for a few reasons. One is, apparently, that they don't think viewers like this. You'd think the incredible success of LOST would make them think otherwise. Maybe they're going off of things like The Event or Flash Forward, which failed because they just weren't very good. The other big reason they prefer a more episodic series to a long story is that if it isn't doing well, cancelling it essentially renders the show pointless because it can't end. They can't even go for DVD set sales at that point. Who wants to buy a story that never went anywhere (hint: the previous sentence is a great setup for a joke about Lost, naysayers!)? The other side of the coin is that if a long term, story-driven show is successful and making money, they don't want it to end. Basically, they forfeit some of their precious control over the show when it's designed to work toward a planned end.


Offline TheUnabeefer

  • Bilbo Baggins Balladeer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4211
  • Liked: 937
  • I am a flying cow... worship me or DIE!!!
    • The Unabeefer Beefs
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2011, 05:52:27 PM »
What's even worse than a drama that doesn't establish any sort of long-term story is one that ACTS like there's a long term story, but they have no intention of ending it until they're about to be cancelled. I need to believe the story is going somewhere or I lose interest. If it wants to have an impact, a drama should be planned to end, in my opinion.

Of course, networks don't like this for a few reasons. One is, apparently, that they don't think viewers like this. You'd think the incredible success of LOST would make them think otherwise. Maybe they're going off of things like The Event or Flash Forward, which failed because they just weren't very good. The other big reason they prefer a more episodic series to a long story is that if it isn't doing well, cancelling it essentially renders the show pointless because it can't end. They can't even go for DVD set sales at that point. Who wants to buy a story that never went anywhere (hint: the previous sentence is a great setup for a joke about Lost, naysayers!)? The other side of the coin is that if a long term, story-driven show is successful and making money, they don't want it to end. Basically, they forfeit some of their precious control over the show when it's designed to work toward a planned end.

The problem with shows like The Event and FlashForward were that they were trying to be like Lost SECOND or THIRD season from the very get-go.  Lost for the first half of season one, the only real carrying story-arc was "Where the hell are we, and how to we leave?! ...and what's that monster thing?"  ....  The aforementioned failed shows simply tried to throw in all the mythology at once and overload with mystery, instead of ease into it.  Remember, it wasn't until about mid-way through season 1 of Lost that people started to realise that it wasn't just "Survivor, the drama"
...and there he was, reigning supreme at number two.  The One... The Only... The Unabeefer.



Invader_quirk

  • Guest
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2011, 06:00:31 PM »
The problem with shows like The Event and FlashForward were that they were trying to be like Lost SECOND or THIRD season from the very get-go.  Lost for the first half of season one, the only real carrying story-arc was "Where the hell are we, and how to we leave?! ...and what's that monster thing?"  ....  The aforementioned failed shows simply tried to throw in all the mythology at once and overload with mystery, instead of ease into it.  Remember, it wasn't until about mid-way through season 1 of Lost that people started to realise that it wasn't just "Survivor, the drama"

Good observation. What Lost did well that the copies did not was establish the show as a character-based drama. The mysteries that arose provided strange and interesting scenarios for the characters and forced them to really think about their lives. In the end, the whole show was about the characters, while the Event and FlashForward were all about the crazy mystery, with the characters being there to essentially just show us around the plot.


Offline D.B. Barnes

  • Grendel's Mom
  • ***
  • Posts: 9952
  • Liked: 6621
  • "AMIRITE?!?"
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2011, 06:05:56 PM »
What's even worse than a drama that doesn't establish any sort of long-term story is one that ACTS like there's a long term story, but they have no intention of ending it until they're about to be cancelled. I need to believe the story is going somewhere or I lose interest. If it wants to have an impact, a drama should be planned to end, in my opinion.

Of course, networks don't like this for a few reasons. One is, apparently, that they don't think viewers like this. You'd think the incredible success of LOST would make them think otherwise. Maybe they're going off of things like The Event or Flash Forward, which failed because they just weren't very good. The other big reason they prefer a more episodic series to a long story is that if it isn't doing well, cancelling it essentially renders the show pointless because it can't end. They can't even go for DVD set sales at that point. Who wants to buy a story that never went anywhere (hint: the previous sentence is a great setup for a joke about Lost, naysayers!)? The other side of the coin is that if a long term, story-driven show is successful and making money, they don't want it to end. Basically, they forfeit some of their precious control over the show when it's designed to work toward a planned end.

The problem with shows like The Event and FlashForward were that they were trying to be like Lost SECOND or THIRD season from the very get-go.  Lost for the first half of season one, the only real carrying story-arc was "Where the hell are we, and how to we leave?! ...and what's that monster thing?"  ....  The aforementioned failed shows simply tried to throw in all the mythology at once and overload with mystery, instead of ease into it.  Remember, it wasn't until about mid-way through season 1 of Lost that people started to realise that it wasn't just "Survivor, the drama"

I could be wrong, but I think this may have something to with the fact that networks have such quick trigger fingers when it comes to cancelling shows. LOST premiered seven years ago when there wasn't as much of a knee-jerk cancellation. I could be wrong, but it just seems like networks are so quick to cancel stuff nowadays. It's not uncommon now to see a show get cancelled after two episodes.

This seems especially apparent with sitcoms.  Think about how long it took Seinfeld to find its feet. If Seinfeld debuted in this day and age, I don't think it would've made it past season one. Sitcoms have to hit the ground at full speed now to survive. Think about how great shows like Parks and Recreation and Community were right out of the gate.

I would hate to think Person of Interest is being driven creatively by a fear of cancellation, but I wouldn't be completely surprised if that was the case given the current state of network television.
VIVA IL ESORDIO DEL DIABETE ADULTO DUCE!!!


Offline Sideswipe

  • Compsognathus
  • *****
  • Posts: 10563
  • Liked: 2052
  • Look at me!!
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2011, 06:12:07 PM »
Yeah.  That's why I don't watch shows until they hit season two, although thats not even a guarantee it will be around to see it's potential.

I was bieng threated with death by wolf raping before it was cool!.


Offline TheUnabeefer

  • Bilbo Baggins Balladeer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4211
  • Liked: 937
  • I am a flying cow... worship me or DIE!!!
    • The Unabeefer Beefs
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2011, 06:31:44 PM »
I'm watching this week's Person of Interest.... I have to say that I like that he gets his ass beaten every so often... and isn't just some indestructible machine of a man.
...and there he was, reigning supreme at number two.  The One... The Only... The Unabeefer.



Offline LucasM

  • Ephialtes
  • *****
  • Posts: 7556
  • Liked: 4662
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2011, 07:35:35 PM »
What's even worse than a drama that doesn't establish any sort of long-term story is one that ACTS like there's a long term story, but they have no intention of ending it until they're about to be cancelled. I need to believe the story is going somewhere or I lose interest. If it wants to have an impact, a drama should be planned to end, in my opinion.

Seconded!  There are a lot of other great points in all these posts on what works and doesn't.

Something I don't think I've seen discussed is that execs also appear to have a MASSIVE fear - that is based in how TV was provided to the public years ago, and is irrelevant today - that if a series has a larger story arc, that they cannot get additional viewers to join in watching.  And so they think that if they don't have a massive viewership immediately, they will never GET one.

The execs are still thinking in terms of shows being aired once (with possibly a single re-run) and then are gone.  Today, many, if not most, (if not all?), shows are available on-line to view in order to catch up with a show one came in on the middle of that looked interesting.

Lost proved that the ancient-thinking execs are wrong.  Initially I thought that Lost was 'Survivor-the Scripted' so never gave it a try, but I decided (from what my Internist was telling me [cool guy!]) that Lost would be worth a look.  But the show was nearly at the end of the third season by that point!  I didn't watch any of the last 3-4 episodes of the season (knowing it was a single story).  Then a friend bought me the first season, and by part-way through watching the second episode I ordered the second season from Amazon, and pre-ordered the third.  And I didn't miss an episode from the start of the fourth season on.

TV execs are thinking in terms of the way things were when I was a kid: one airing of shows with the season running 24-26 episodes, followed the rest of the year by those episodes running a second time in order.  No VCRs, no DVR, no online 'airing' of episodes (no 6-8 week gap around December!).  If that were still the case today, Lost - or any large, single-story show - would've been far more difficult to step into in later seasons, so people would not bother to start watching at all if they missed the first run (or the reruns) of a show when it began.


In addition to a series-long story is something that I like that happened with Joss Whedon's shows: while there was a larger picture, each season was complete in and of itself (e.g. Buffy and Angel, as they were the only series to be allowed to progress as planned).  Each season had a beginning, a middle, and an end.  [I despise cliffhanger endings to seasons!  If I like the friggin' show, I'm coming back regardless, if I was borderline on watching it, a cliffhanger season ending is more likely to piss me off enough to give up on it; the opposite of what execs think happens.]  But back to Whedon's shows' seasons: they were all VERY clear-cut.  Yes, some (many) plot-points were revived in subsequent seasons, but each season could stand on its own as a unit if one did not watch the surrounding seasons.  The whole (series) was much bigger than the parts (seasons), but each part worked independently.


The other side of the coin is that if a long term, story-driven show is successful and making money, they don't want it to end. Basically, they forfeit some of their precious control over the show when it's designed to work toward a planned end.

And I think that TV execs want to THINK they are creative and know 'what's best' and so they want to tinker with a show [again: see Firefly's history about the execs trying to f*ck with plots].  The fact is, TV execs tend to know precisely nothing about creativity and what works.  An example of this is the difference between the creativity of 1940s Warners short cartoons versus those of MGM and Disney.  At Warners, the cartoon clan was able to do basically what they pleased, and they were trusted to be creative.  They created what was funny to THEM, and because of that, others enjoyed them.  Those cartoons are every bit as amusing today as they were 70 years ago!  Both MGM and Disney had more 'corporate cartoons' where the executive control over the cartoonists rendered the vast majority of them unwatchable (to me, at least).


[By the length of this: can anyone who knows me guess how far past my limits I am right now?  :) ]
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 07:38:18 PM by LucasM »
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects


Russell

  • Guest
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2011, 10:07:33 PM »
Dexter was really damn good tonight.


Offline TheUnabeefer

  • Bilbo Baggins Balladeer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4211
  • Liked: 937
  • I am a flying cow... worship me or DIE!!!
    • The Unabeefer Beefs
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2011, 03:44:17 PM »
I watched the first episode of Once Upon A Time (created and written by one of the main Lost duo of writers.... the two who wrote the important episodes when Darlton didn't.... Kirtsis and Horowitz or something)

It seems pretty good... Hard to base off what obviously was the pilot and story-setter, but I like what I've seen so far.  I hope it sticks.  Apparently it had good ratings...
...and there he was, reigning supreme at number two.  The One... The Only... The Unabeefer.



Offline TeamRAD

  • Climbed El Capitan
  • *******
  • Posts: 5971
  • Liked: 103
  • RAAAADDDDD!
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2011, 06:24:06 AM »

Most definitely, Homeland. Claire Danes is just killing it, and Damian Lewis as well. It's been an absolute thrill to watch w/ Breaking Bad just recently finishing its fourth season.

I'm also going to fire-up Cinemax's Strike Back ride this coming weekend.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Einstein


Offline RVR II

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 54375
  • Liked: 3899
  • There can be Only 1...
    • RVR II's YouTube Channel
Re: Anything New This Season That Warrants Viewing?
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2011, 08:19:21 AM »
The resurrection of Beavis and Butthead starts tonight 10 or 10:30pm EST on MTV 8)
I AM THERE!! :o
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 08:21:51 AM by RVR II »