Author Topic: Sequel(s) Info  (Read 8166 times)

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Offline bettertomorrowamy

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2010, 11:40:58 AM »
Wasn't the problem that the brother had all that scientific learning?  Can you teach a still developing clone science and every other bit of education they need in 5 years?

The twin brother was in stasis for the 5 year trip.  He didn't learn a thing.

I never said he did.

But you inferred that massive education in science would be necessary for the clone.  The twin got the bare minimum and was put in stasis and the corporation was fine with that so.....

You're missing the beginning of the discussion.
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Offline bettertomorrowamy

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2010, 11:46:03 AM »
Can you teach a still developing clone science and every other bit of education they need in 5 years?

Yes.

... I mean, so far all of the other excuses are made-out-of-whole-cloth-pulled-out-of-hammerspace fiction. There's nothing that says "the fiction works this way, not that way". The fiction works, however the writer says it works.

So if they're cloning the Colonel, the narrative says cloning is possible. Without that added bit of info someone who said "Why didn't they just clone his brother" could have been met with scorn and dismissal: You can't just clone someone!!

But, turns out you can. Now "why didn't they just clone the brother" is a logical question within the narrative. If they introduce time travel, "why didn't they just go back in time to stop the mugger" becomes a logical question.

I'm sure the Col. won't be a completely different person just with the exact same body. Now he's a pediatrician who collects butterflies. He'll somehow know or remember, he'll be reprogramed. Then we go by the narrative. Reprogramming takes 10 years, 3 weeks, 2 days and 4 hours. Reprogramming is automatic, like putting in a DVD. It's whatever they say it is.

Jake is chosen for the job based only on his genetic make-up. I submit to you he's no better suited for the task than a xerox of his brother who lacks higher science education. Until the narrative says otherwise... It takes $5 billion and 1 dollars to make a clone and it's just cheaper to have his idiot brother pilot the $5 billion dollar Avatar. Someone spilled a Red Bull on the flash drive that had his brothers genome sequenced. Whatever the excuse will be.

Again, I harp on "reason" vs. "excuse". There are an infinite supply of excuses.

Well, of course we can write it any way we want.  They chose to write the first movie to imply that they couldn't clone and teach a new scientist on the way to Pandora, so I have to assume that that is the reality.
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Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2010, 12:19:00 PM »
Wasn't the problem that the brother had all that scientific learning?  Can you teach a still developing clone science and every other bit of education they need in 5 years?

The twin brother was in stasis for the 5 year trip.  He didn't learn a thing.

I never said he did.

But you inferred that massive education in science would be necessary for the clone.  The twin got the bare minimum and was put in stasis and the corporation was fine with that so.....

You're missing the beginning of the discussion.

You mean when I asked the question if they can clone the jerk-off army guy, why didn't they just clone the twin who was killed instead of getting the other twin.....that beginning?


Offline bettertomorrowamy

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2010, 01:14:15 PM »
Wasn't the problem that the brother had all that scientific learning?  Can you teach a still developing clone science and every other bit of education they need in 5 years?

The twin brother was in stasis for the 5 year trip.  He didn't learn a thing.

I never said he did.

But you inferred that massive education in science would be necessary for the clone.  The twin got the bare minimum and was put in stasis and the corporation was fine with that so.....

You're missing the beginning of the discussion.

You mean when I asked the question if they can clone the jerk-off army guy, why didn't they just clone the twin who was killed instead of getting the other twin.....that beginning?

Yeah.
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Offline MartyS (Gromit)

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2010, 01:52:00 PM »
Jake is chosen for the job based only on his genetic make-up. I submit to you he's no better suited for the task than a xerox of his brother who lacks higher science education. Until the narrative says otherwise... It takes $5 billion and 1 dollars to make a clone and it's just cheaper to have his idiot brother pilot the $5 billion dollar Avatar. Someone spilled a Red Bull on the flash drive that had his brothers genome sequenced. Whatever the excuse will be.

I think you just hit on the best reason against cloning.  Money. 

The company doesn't seem to really care about the science aspect of the mission.  So here they have a ton of money already spent on the avatar and they look for the cheapest way to use it, and that would be sending the twin.

Cloning the security guy doesn't make sense either, there's got to be cheaper alternatives, there have to be loads of ex military guys like that they could stick in the job.  Unless they are cloning him as a hybrid like the avatars, so he can walk around on the planet like a native, that would be hilarious.  He could be out there in the wild killing everything in site with a constant narrative of "take that" "get some" "bring it"..... ;D


Offline Indomitus

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2010, 01:54:25 PM »
They actually did answer "why not just clone the science guy" in the movie.  They already had a person to run the avatar, the guy's twin who happens to be an ex-Marine.  They established that the corporation doesn't really care about the science side, so having a jarhead run the blue puppet makes perfect sense to the bean counters.  Why spend money to clone and re-train a "science puke" when you already have a viable replacement, someone who could be just as useful just in a different way?  Basic corporate logic.

Now...  As for cloning the bad guy...  WTF?  Why would they do that?  Aren't there any other ex-military mad dogs back home that could step up?  Going back to the corporate logic, why clone when you can just find another to step in?  That seems like excess expense for a company that's supposedly in deep fiscal sh*t.

(and...  dang it, MartyS hits my points just before I can post them...)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 01:57:12 PM by Indomitus »


Offline TTYT

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2010, 06:00:55 PM »
I am interested in seeing just what was up with Ribisi's character looking like he seriously didn't want to see the last attack on the Tree of Souls dust off. Maybe for once in a Cameron movie (aside from The Abyss, which really didn't have an "Evil Corporation"), the Evil Corporation Guy had a change of heart after watching the Hometree's destruction. I mean, it sort of makes sense, given that he was willing to give Jake an hour to try and get the Na'vi to move from the place before Quaritch stepped in.


Offline bettertomorrowamy

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2010, 03:47:57 AM »
I am interested in seeing just what was up with Ribisi's character looking like he seriously didn't want to see the last attack on the Tree of Souls dust off. Maybe for once in a Cameron movie (aside from The Abyss, which really didn't have an "Evil Corporation"), the Evil Corporation Guy had a change of heart after watching the Hometree's destruction. I mean, it sort of makes sense, given that he was willing to give Jake an hour to try and get the Na'vi to move from the place before Quaritch stepped in.

Don't you think his character in that moment was experiencing the first genuine realization that what he doing is crossing a distinct line and if it fails it could end his career, or it could be that for all his bluster and machismo he at that moment was thinking about exactly what he was allowing them to destroy?

The guy was a weasel and I don't think he can act like a weasel unless he is behind a computer screen viewing what they are doing clinically.  Once he understood the magnitude of the destruction he was about to cause he might have had second thoughts.  Sounds like back on Earth there are differing opinions on how to handle the indigenous lifeforms.  This action might have political and therefore financial ramifications for the Company, and HE would be the fallguy in the event that the ramifications are bad for the bottom line.
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Offline MartyS (Gromit)

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2010, 10:02:14 AM »
I am interested in seeing just what was up with Ribisi's character looking like he seriously didn't want to see the last attack on the Tree of Souls dust off. Maybe for once in a Cameron movie (aside from The Abyss, which really didn't have an "Evil Corporation"), the Evil Corporation Guy had a change of heart after watching the Hometree's destruction. I mean, it sort of makes sense, given that he was willing to give Jake an hour to try and get the Na'vi to move from the place before Quaritch stepped in.

Don't you think his character in that moment was experiencing the first genuine realization that what he doing is crossing a distinct line and if it fails it could end his career, or it could be that for all his bluster and machismo he at that moment was thinking about exactly what he was allowing them to destroy?

The guy was a weasel and I don't think he can act like a weasel unless he is behind a computer screen viewing what they are doing clinically.  Once he understood the magnitude of the destruction he was about to cause he might have had second thoughts.  Sounds like back on Earth there are differing opinions on how to handle the indigenous lifeforms.  This action might have political and therefore financial ramifications for the Company, and HE would be the fallguy in the event that the ramifications are bad for the bottom line.

Yea, he already said the shareholders don't like bad press, if the video of the tree being blown up and falling on the natives got back to earth the company would be mad at him.  He sure snapped out of it fast enough when he told them to pull the plug, so I'm sure he was still thinking the money from the mine would save his job.


Offline Lemming Howard

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Re: Sequel(s) Info
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2010, 09:35:54 AM »
If Quaritch does return maybe it it will be that his wounding  was much worse than let on   The company values his amoral kick ass military attitude so much they created a bunch of avatars of his own to operate through.  Expensive and probably not enough time but we're talking Sci-fi.  And it would be somewhat ironic.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 09:49:35 AM by Lemming Howard »
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