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Author Topic: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!  (Read 14811 times)

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Offline JWhite

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2010, 03:54:07 PM »
Here, so all the other threads don't get hijacked by people debating little things about the fictional movie's fictional things that bugged them (ah, nerds...)

I'll start this off by responding to the debate about the glass shielding and arrows that's invaded two separate threads here:

First off, the arrows weren't penetrating the gunships' glass at first because the Na'vi were firing their arrows at a distance. And even then, the arrows were already putting some pretty impressive small cracks in the glass. So, #1) The glass on all the gunships was probably already slightly weakened from the damage suffered in the attack on Hometree, making it more prone to shattering during the next battle (though you could argue about whether they replaced the glass or not before the second battle.) And #2 - When the Na'vi finally did succeed in smashing the gunship glass with their arrows, they were either standing on the gunships or were close enough to touch the damn things when they fired their arrows. I don't know about you, but I'd believe a 10-foot tall creature that can match the strength of a man-sized mech would be able to bring some considerable downward force to their arrow thrust - not to mention that all that force would then be focused into a very small surface area of the glass (thanks to the relatively small tip of the arrow), making it far easier to break through than if something like a mallet had been used. It'd be basically like using one of those emergency glass-breaking picks on a car window. I repeat my #2 argument for the mech glass shielding.

And yes, there can be arguments over "why didn't they have stronger glass?", or "Why did they even have glass shielding in the first place?" But I'm not going to go there, because it's a damn movie, and I don't care. You'd think the Marines would've just dropped a rod from god on Hometree from orbit, but no, we needed battle scenes - and besides, it probably would've destroyed the unobtanium deposit they were trying to mine, anyways. Paul Reiser clone wouldn't have liked that much.

And here is an easy way of saying this argument is horse shit....

IT'S SUPPOSE TO BE BULLET PROOF!

The velocity that is discharged by a gun would still be a large amount more thrust than a Navi shooting an arrow. If your argument was the case, we would simply make stronger and better arrows (and bows) and would not have to move onto ballistics.

So here is the problem, why the hell would something that is suppose to resist bullets all of a sudden crack under arrows?

And if it's not bullet proof, then why have simple glass in the first place!?! Hell on tanks not only is the glass bullet proof but they are very small windows. They might as well print bulls eyes on them, never mind that it seemed that Killgore-er-QuarICantSpellHisName seemed fine with out the glass until the arrow came that would have punctured the glass anyhow.

Then again, he also seemed to survive a ton of crap that no human could survive...which is why it was even more stupid that he got killed simply by two arrows.  >:(

In short, the bullet proof glass needed to break because like how they said in Battlefield Earth, there would be no way in hell the Na'vi could ever win. And please don't say "its just a movie" because then why the fuck did he try to do all this science shit only to have huge flaws that a six year old child could point out?

And don't get me started on the biology. As they said "MY EXISTENCE MAKES NO EVOLUTIONARY SENSE!!!"

P.S.

Oh, this is one of my biggest ones...

You would think that with humans with all this tech that is a billion times better than we have now we would do something that we HAVE been doing on earth:

Stuff is below the ground. Object is on top of it. Solution: DRILL UNDER GROUND AND MIND IT UNDERNEATH, FILLING THE VACCUME WITH EARTH SO THAT WAY YOU CAN STEALTHILY MINE IT OUT!

BOOM!

No Na'vi war clusterfuck!
« Last Edit: April 24, 2010, 03:57:16 PM by JWhite »


Offline TTYT

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2010, 04:29:54 PM »
Here, so all the other threads don't get hijacked by people debating little things about the fictional movie's fictional things that bugged them (ah, nerds...)

I'll start this off by responding to the debate about the glass shielding and arrows that's invaded two separate threads here:

First off, the arrows weren't penetrating the gunships' glass at first because the Na'vi were firing their arrows at a distance. And even then, the arrows were already putting some pretty impressive small cracks in the glass. So, #1) The glass on all the gunships was probably already slightly weakened from the damage suffered in the attack on Hometree, making it more prone to shattering during the next battle (though you could argue about whether they replaced the glass or not before the second battle.) And #2 - When the Na'vi finally did succeed in smashing the gunship glass with their arrows, they were either standing on the gunships or were close enough to touch the damn things when they fired their arrows. I don't know about you, but I'd believe a 10-foot tall creature that can match the strength of a man-sized mech would be able to bring some considerable downward force to their arrow thrust - not to mention that all that force would then be focused into a very small surface area of the glass (thanks to the relatively small tip of the arrow), making it far easier to break through than if something like a mallet had been used. It'd be basically like using one of those emergency glass-breaking picks on a car window. I repeat my #2 argument for the mech glass shielding.

And yes, there can be arguments over "why didn't they have stronger glass?", or "Why did they even have glass shielding in the first place?" But I'm not going to go there, because it's a damn movie, and I don't care. You'd think the Marines would've just dropped a rod from god on Hometree from orbit, but no, we needed battle scenes - and besides, it probably would've destroyed the unobtanium deposit they were trying to mine, anyways. Paul Reiser clone wouldn't have liked that much.

And here is an easy way of saying this argument is horse shit....

IT'S SUPPOSE TO BE BULLET PROOF!

The velocity that is discharged by a gun would still be a large amount more thrust than a Navi shooting an arrow. If your argument was the case, we would simply make stronger and better arrows (and bows) and would not have to move onto ballistics.

So here is the problem, why the hell would something that is suppose to resist bullets all of a sudden crack under arrows?

And if it's not bullet proof, then why have simple glass in the first place!?! Hell on tanks not only is the glass bullet proof but they are very small windows. They might as well print bulls eyes on them, never mind that it seemed that Killgore-er-QuarICantSpellHisName seemed fine with out the glass until the arrow came that would have punctured the glass anyhow.

Then again, he also seemed to survive a ton of crap that no human could survive...which is why it was even more stupid that he got killed simply by two arrows.  >:(

In short, the bullet proof glass needed to break because like how they said in Battlefield Earth, there would be no way in hell the Na'vi could ever win. And please don't say "its just a movie" because then why the fuck did he try to do all this science shit only to have huge flaws that a six year old child could point out?

And don't get me started on the biology. As they said "MY EXISTENCE MAKES NO EVOLUTIONARY SENSE!!!"

P.S.

Oh, this is one of my biggest ones...

You would think that with humans with all this tech that is a billion times better than we have now we would do something that we HAVE been doing on earth:

Stuff is below the ground. Object is on top of it. Solution: DRILL UNDER GROUND AND MIND IT UNDERNEATH, FILLING THE VACCUME WITH EARTH SO THAT WAY YOU CAN STEALTHILY MINE IT OUT!

BOOM!

No Na'vi war clusterfuck!

...You should really just relax.


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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2010, 08:22:35 PM »
What is the evolutionary benefit to having everything bright neon?

Life on Pandora began in a rave. The candy necklace alligator poodles that got cut from the picture show that.

Personally, I was part of a 30 page "heated discussion" regarding why the humans didn't drop rocks from orbit on the Na'vi. I think the end consensus  was either a) They hired the some folks who developed the military tactics for Starship Troopers or b) It would make for a less interesting movie.

It would make for a SHORTER movie, that's for sure.


Offline Relaxing Dragon

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2010, 11:06:34 PM »
*grabs a random gripe out of a hat*

I don't like that warrior Na'vi dude who was supposed to marry the main Na'vi chick (I don't believe I'll ever know any of there names, they all blur together), and I can't understand how we're supposed to like him at all. He's in the movie for approximentally 11 minutes and 13 seconds (I timed it, and that' s being generous by including the parts where he's in the background), he acts like a dick pretty much the entire time, and he loses every fight he's in. Those fights being when he tries to slice Jake and gets cat-called off by whatshername, and when he jumps into the giant dropship to try and stop the bomb and gets shot. His falling-to-his-death-in-slomo bit was one of the longest times he was onscreen.

So, in short, one of the weakest characters I've seen in a movie in a long time.


Offline Blaine

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2010, 06:35:18 AM »
*grabs a random gripe out of a hat*

I don't like that warrior Na'vi dude who was supposed to marry the main Na'vi chick (I don't believe I'll ever know any of there names, they all blur together), and I can't understand how we're supposed to like him at all. He's in the movie for approximentally 11 minutes and 13 seconds (I timed it, and that' s being generous by including the parts where he's in the background), he acts like a dick pretty much the entire time, and he loses every fight he's in. Those fights being when he tries to slice Jake and gets cat-called off by whatshername, and when he jumps into the giant dropship to try and stop the bomb and gets shot. His falling-to-his-death-in-slomo bit was one of the longest times he was onscreen.

So, in short, one of the weakest characters I've seen in a movie in a long time.

You mean the guy who was going to be the next chief? Yeah, you'd think he'd be a little less... sucky.

The guys touched on it in the commentary, but it's worth pointing out: An underlying message of the movie is it's good to be Navi and bad to be Human. Jake is a Navi for 3 months and is the greatest Navi in 7 generations. And Jake was hardly our best and brightest.


Offline TTYT

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2010, 10:54:50 AM »
Going back to the glass shield thing - Hah! (All emphasis added)

Quote
The Na'vi are exremely accurate with their arrows, which fly relatively fast, and can pack the punch to go through a human ship's windshield (which are actually not bulletproof, as demonstrated on Trudy's Samson 16 by Miles Quaritch on the flight line) at close range, as depicted several times in the Battle of the Tree of Souls. However, if the range is too far, or the arrow strikes at an angle rather than head on, it merely creates chips in the windshield, as depicted in the destruction of Hometree.

http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Hunting_Arrows

As for Quaritch, it wasn't a Na'vi arrow that broke through his mech's glass shield, it was the mech suit's giant knife, which can cut through metals:

Quote
The other non-standard weapon is a combat knife of self- sharpening diamond-hard ceramic, as well as an optional flamethrower. To match the scale of the suit, the knife's blade is over three feet long and cuts through many metals. The AMP Suit Knife is especially favored by Special Forces AMP pilots.

http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Amplified_Mobility_Platform#Usage

As for two "measly" arrows killing Quaritch, remember what he said at the beginning of the movie:

Quote
They're fond of arrows dipped in a neurotoxin that will stop your heart in one minute.

As for the poisonous atmosphere of Pandora:

Quote
Pandora's atmosphere is a mixture of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide (>18%), xenon (>5.5%), methane, and hydrogen sulfide (>1%) and is about 20% denser than the atmosphere on Earth primarily due to the high percentage of Xenon; a heavy, colorless, odorless, and generally unreactive noble gas. The high concentration of carbon dioxide in the Pandoran atmosphere makes it extremely poisonous to humans and will kill them in about 4 minutes. The hydrogen sulfide present is also quite poisonous; concentrations over 1000 ppm (0.1 %) can cause immediate collapse with subsequent loss of breathing, even after inhalation of a single breath.

So, basically, Quaritch was one hell of a hardened sunofabitch in supreme physical shape, seeing as he barely flinched when exposed to the atmosphere, and required a double dose of posioned arrows to finally take him down. Must've been a descendant of Boromir.

And remember, none of the humans whose deaths were prominently focused on died solely because of being exposed to the excess carbon dioxide in Pandora's atmosphere. Trudy got blown up, Grace was shot, and Quaritch got a neurotoxin overdose. Jake came closest to dying from his exposure, but was saved in time by Neytiri.


Offline Relaxing Dragon

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2010, 02:27:28 PM »
So, basically, Quaritch was one hell of a hardened sunofabitch in supreme physical shape, seeing as he barely flinched when exposed to the atmosphere, and required a double dose of posioned arrows to finally take him down. Must've been a descendant of Boromir.

One of the many reasons why he's the true hero of the movie to me 8)


Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2010, 03:51:54 PM »
So, basically, Quaritch was one hell of a hardened sunofabitch in supreme physical shape, seeing as he barely flinched when exposed to the atmosphere, and required a double dose of posioned arrows to finally take him down. Must've been a descendant of Boromir.

One of the many reasons why he's the true hero of the movie to me 8)

Amazing how many bullets some punk on angel dust will take and yet keep going, too.  ;)


Offline Indomitus

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2010, 05:14:35 PM »
Has anybody nitpicked yet about how when the "bullet proof" windshields are pierced by bullets (nitpick that one later) creating a breach in the hull, nobody was concerned about losing their breathable oxygen?

How about when the shuttle/bomber went down?  At that point it was close enough to the tree that it was ready to drop its payload, and yet when it crashes, it misses everything completely.  Not even any shrapnel or debris landing near the tree.

Honestly, my biggest nitpick is that we assume them to live happily ever after, when we all know full well this Evil Corporation would return and nuke the whole planet clean from orbit.  At best, their happy victory would last about 10 years (one round trip).


Offline TTYT

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2010, 05:27:24 PM »
Has anybody nitpicked yet about how when the "bullet proof" windshields are pierced by bullets (nitpick that one later) creating a breach in the hull, nobody was concerned about losing their breathable oxygen?

Look at my big post just a few posts up from here. The windshields apparently aren't bulletproof. http://forum.rifftrax.com/index.php/topic,17907.msg545573.html#msg545573

How about when the shuttle/bomber went down?  At that point it was close enough to the tree that it was ready to drop its payload, and yet when it crashes, it misses everything completely.  Not even any shrapnel or debris landing near the tree.

I'm assuming the explosions took it off its course. That, and they were preparing the bombs for being dropped, so they would be ready to drop once the shuttle actually got over the tree.

Honestly, my biggest nitpick is that we assume them to live happily ever after, when we all know full well this Evil Corporation would return and nuke the whole planet clean from orbit.  At best, their happy victory would last about 10 years (one round trip).

Well, the corporation has to abide by a treaty forbidding WMD's in space ( http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interplanetary_Commerce_Administration ), so not likely - but the Avatar Wiki does say Giovanni Ribisi 's signed on for the sequel - and Quaritch may be cloned (I'm putting the sequel info in a separate thread...)


Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2010, 05:33:01 PM »
Has anybody nitpicked yet about how when the "bullet proof" windshields are pierced by bullets (nitpick that one later)....

I suspect the answer to that is connected to why a bullet proof vest can protect against said bullet (it actually deforms the bullet and catches some of the blunt force) and yet can't protect against knives, arrows or ice picks...or bullets made of materials that won't deform....

But I don't have the energy....


Offline RobtheBarbarian

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2010, 05:38:47 PM »
Honestly, my biggest nitpick is that we assume them to live happily ever after, when we all know full well this Evil Corporation would return and nuke the whole planet clean from orbit.  At best, their happy victory would last about 10 years (one round trip).

Well, the corporation has to abide by a treaty forbidding WMD's in space ( http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interplanetary_Commerce_Administration ), so not likely - but the Avatar Wiki does say Giovanni Ribisi 's signed on for the sequel - and Quaritch may be cloned (I'm putting the sequel info in a separate thread...)

So basically it turns out that my biggest problem with the movie isn't the criticisms I have regarding the story, but that James Cameron has an excuse for every goddamn one of them.


Offline TTYT

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2010, 05:44:41 PM »
So basically it turns out that my biggest problem with the movie isn't the criticisms I have regarding the story, but that James Cameron has an excuse for every goddamn one of them.

Yep.


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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2010, 05:45:34 PM »
Honestly, my biggest nitpick is that we assume them to live happily ever after, when we all know full well this Evil Corporation would return and nuke the whole planet clean from orbit.  At best, their happy victory would last about 10 years (one round trip).

Well, the corporation has to abide by a treaty forbidding WMD's in space ( http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interplanetary_Commerce_Administration ), so not likely - but the Avatar Wiki does say Giovanni Ribisi 's signed on for the sequel - and Quaritch may be cloned (I'm putting the sequel info in a separate thread...)

So basically it turns out that my biggest problem with the movie isn't the criticisms I have regarding the story, but that James Cameron has an excuse for every goddamn one of them.

And that despite having thought of all these excuses, he didn't bother to include them in the movie at all.
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Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2010, 05:46:23 PM »
So basically it turns out that my biggest problem with the movie isn't the criticisms I have regarding the story, but that James Cameron has an excuse for every goddamn one of them.

Might be worse.  He may have thought of every one of them before the filming and then did it anyway....