Author Topic: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!  (Read 14810 times)

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Offline TTYT

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The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« on: April 24, 2010, 12:03:31 PM »
Here, so all the other threads don't get hijacked by people debating little things about the fictional movie's fictional things that bugged them (ah, nerds...)

I'll start this off by responding to the debate about the glass shielding and arrows that's invaded two separate threads here:

First off, the arrows weren't penetrating the gunships' glass at first because the Na'vi were firing their arrows at a distance. And even then, the arrows were already putting some pretty impressive small cracks in the glass. So, #1) The glass on all the gunships was probably already slightly weakened from the damage suffered in the attack on Hometree, making it more prone to shattering during the next battle (though you could argue about whether they replaced the glass or not before the second battle.) And #2 - When the Na'vi finally did succeed in smashing the gunship glass with their arrows, they were either standing on the gunships or were close enough to touch the damn things when they fired their arrows. I don't know about you, but I'd believe a 10-foot tall creature that can match the strength of a man-sized mech would be able to bring some considerable downward force to their arrow thrust - not to mention that all that force would then be focused into a very small surface area of the glass (thanks to the relatively small tip of the arrow), making it far easier to break through than if something like a mallet had been used. It'd be basically like using one of those emergency glass-breaking picks on a car window. I repeat my #2 argument for the mech glass shielding.

And yes, there can be arguments over "why didn't they have stronger glass?", or "Why did they even have glass shielding in the first place?" But I'm not going to go there, because it's a damn movie, and I don't care. You'd think the Marines would've just dropped a rod from god on Hometree from orbit, but no, we needed battle scenes - and besides, it probably would've destroyed the unobtanium deposit they were trying to mine, anyways. Paul Reiser clone wouldn't have liked that much.


Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2010, 12:37:39 PM »
And yes, there can be arguments over "why didn't they have stronger glass?", or "Why did they even have glass shielding in the first place?" But I'm not going to go there, because it's a damn movie, and I don't care.

Wasn't part of the problem also that Earth was running out of basics.  That they couldn't make stronger glass because they didn't have the materials?


Offline RoninFox

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2010, 12:45:23 PM »
So the humans wanted to take Unobtanium, a rock that floats.  The first place they want to go to get this stuff is underground where the Na'vi's huge tree is...well you know guys there's a GIGANTIC FLOATING MOUNTAIN RANGE RIGHT OVER THERE!  Gee I wonder if there's any Unobtanium in those!  Just get a couple helicopters over there and push one of the mountains back to base.
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Offline Darth Geek

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2010, 01:21:49 PM »
So the humans wanted to take Unobtanium, a rock that floats.  The first place they want to go to get this stuff is underground where the Na'vi's huge tree is...well you know guys there's a GIGANTIC FLOATING MOUNTAIN RANGE RIGHT OVER THERE!  Gee I wonder if there's any Unobtanium in those!  Just get a couple helicopters over there and push one of the mountains back to base.
Yeah, I wondered about that too. Also, where is the water coming from for the waterfalls?



Offline TTYT

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2010, 02:14:02 PM »
I believe Cameron said in the interview that they didn't don't know the unobtanium is why the mountains float. Considering the company guy's tunnel vision to the giant deposit under the tree, I'm not surprised.


Offline Blaine

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2010, 02:45:27 PM »
I had tons of problems with the biology of the planet. I went to art school for god's sake, it's not like I'm a biologist.

If you look around the Earth, you'll sort of see continuity in animal physiology. Most reptiles, amphibians, birds and mammals share similarities. Bilateral symmetry, limbs follow a standard plan (one bone, two bones, many bones). And while not all of these animals have 4 limbs (snakes), most do.

For some reason on Pandora, every species has this biological USB port. So this is an adaptation of an extremely common...and therefore ancient,  ancestor.

You have the blue lemurs, horses and dragons who all have 6 limbs. The Navi have four. The horses and dragons have 4 eyes, the Navi and Lemurs have 2. The Navi appear to be from a feline line of decent, but the only other creature which appeared to be from that family also has 6 limbs and 4 eyes.

I mean, everything on this planet has 6 limbs, except the Navi and they don't even have vestigial nubs where those limbs used to be. My first instinct was "Oooh, it'll turn out that the Navi are alien to the planet", but that wouldn't make sense either since they have the unique and ancient USB adaptation.

Humans are a 98% genetic match with a handful of species on this planet. The percent drops incredibly by the time you get to something that has a totally different number of limbs than we do. You're talking 340 million years to when proto-mammals and proto-reptiles branched, and it's not like snakes DON'T have 4 limbs, they've just evolved not to need them. They still have vestigial bones.

The Navi appear to be the most well adapted species (tool making, they're in the forrest, plains, mountains...they're everywhere) on the planet and appear to have no genetic relatives. It's as if the genetic branch for 4 limbs, 2 eyes is extremely successful...except for every other species on that branch died out in favor of 6 limbs 4 eyes. It's a contradiction.

Yeah, this is really really really nerdy... but again, I'm an uneducated whelp.

TL:DR; When one is spending $500,000,000... kick $20,000 to a scientist and say "Hey... does this stuff make ANY sense?".


Offline Darth Geek

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2010, 02:51:08 PM »

TL:DR; When one is spending $500,000,000... kick $20,000 to a scientist and say "Hey... does this stuff make ANY sense?".
Yeah, that would have been a good investment. Instead they just spent the 20,000 wandering through a Hot Topic looking at T-shirts and posters.

Anybody else SHOCKED that Pandora didn't have unicorns?



Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2010, 02:55:57 PM »

TL:DR; When one is spending $500,000,000... kick $20,000 to a scientist and say "Hey... does this stuff make ANY sense?".
Yeah, that would have been a good investment. Instead they just spent the 20,000 wandering through a Hot Topic looking at T-shirts and posters.

Anybody else SHOCKED that Pandora didn't have unicorns?

According to the interview Cameron gave on Charlie Rose the day before the release of the film that they consulted biologists to make Pandora look realistic.

Maybe biologists should study more evolution?


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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2010, 02:58:20 PM »
What is the evolutionary benefit to having everything bright neon?


Offline Darth Geek

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2010, 02:59:07 PM »

TL:DR; When one is spending $500,000,000... kick $20,000 to a scientist and say "Hey... does this stuff make ANY sense?".
Yeah, that would have been a good investment. Instead they just spent the 20,000 wandering through a Hot Topic looking at T-shirts and posters.

Anybody else SHOCKED that Pandora didn't have unicorns?

According to the interview Cameron gave on Charlie Rose the day before the release of the film that they consulted biologists to make Pandora look realistic.

Maybe biologists should study more evolution?

I think the filmmakers were lied to by a bunch of pot smokers.



Offline Blaine

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2010, 02:59:48 PM »

TL:DR; When one is spending $500,000,000... kick $20,000 to a scientist and say "Hey... does this stuff make ANY sense?".
Yeah, that would have been a good investment. Instead they just spent the 20,000 wandering through a Hot Topic looking at T-shirts and posters.

Anybody else SHOCKED that Pandora didn't have unicorns?

According to the interview Cameron gave on Charlie Rose the day before the release of the film that they consulted biologists to make Pandora look realistic.

Maybe biologists should study more evolution?

From what I've googled he hired botanists...

http://www.scienceline.org/2010/03/07/an-interview-with-jodie-holt-the-botanist-behind-avatar/

!Botanists are hardly biologists. Trained scientists, sure... but that's also assuming they asked the botanists what they thought of the flora AND fauna of Pandora. For all we know, all they looked at were the plants.

**edit** Jodie Holt is a botanist and a biologist, however according to the articles I've read she only dealt with the plants on Pandora, after the fact. She had no involvement with animals. She didn't design anything. They just sort of asked her to name stuff, asked her for ideas on how a botanist should behave. **edit**

!-I struck that out. That sounds way more aggressive and patronizing than what I meant. Botanists are very, very valid scientists and should be able to make commentary on biology.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2010, 03:09:08 PM by Blaine »


Offline Blaine

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2010, 03:02:05 PM »
What is the evolutionary benefit to having everything bright neon?

From the hired botanist (she's also a biologist, but from what I read she was only asked about plants):

Quote


Ben

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2010, 03:40:35 PM »
I couldn't help but notice that chain-smokers like Dr. Augustine still have a ready supply of cigarettes by the year 2154. What, isn't there any new addictions in the future, like Soylent Pink?


Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2010, 03:52:18 PM »
What is the evolutionary benefit to having everything bright neon?

Lots of overcast days?


Offline Compound

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Re: The Blue Nitpickers: Pick apart the fictional movie here!
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2010, 03:53:27 PM »
What is the evolutionary benefit to having everything bright neon?

Life on Pandora began in a rave. The candy necklace alligator poodles that got cut from the picture show that.

Personally, I was part of a 30 page "heated discussion" regarding why the humans didn't drop rocks from orbit on the Na'vi. I think the end consensus  was either a) They hired the some folks who developed the military tactics for Starship Troopers or b) It would make for a less interesting movie.