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Author Topic: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?  (Read 17107 times)

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Offline Lovye

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2010, 05:06:21 PM »
Alice's power working in the first film would make sense because Alice's is not intrusive on Bella, mind or body.

Jasper now having an effect on her screws that up.

I think she has the power to make people see nature or something in one's mind....

How oddly specific...not just illusions but specific illusions only.  Morbid curiosity makes me ask....and this helps this vampire how?

I don't know, and I was wrong, anyway, from that same link, "Anyway, Zafrina can make you see anything she wants you to see--literally, the power of illusion.  "Cleolinda pointed out in the 2nd Book recap how one of the Volturi can see relationships AND THAT'S NOT A SUPERPOWER!!!!

And, I was with you with this, I totally wanted to defend Alice & Jasper, because, you know, it's because they're not intrusive in her head (seeing the future is independant of Bella's mind) but, Jasper IS.  He can control how she feels.  AND, if he can do that, why can't Dakota Vamping pain her?  Emotions are of the heart and not of the mind and that's why Jasper can affect her whereas Jane (that's it, Jane), has to invade her mind to send messages to her nerves?....Possibly?

Or, it's just a shit series.


Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2010, 05:28:01 PM »


Offline Darth Geek

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Offline ShadowDog

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2010, 08:02:34 PM »
Or, it's just a shit series.

And you summed it down from 9 words to 6!
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Offline Lovye

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2010, 12:00:57 AM »
Or, it's just a shit series.

And you summed it down from 9 words to 6!

;D


Offline Cosmic Muse

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2010, 02:51:43 AM »
I like Alice as a character because she seems like the only decent vampire of the bunch. But I like Jacob Black's character as well. Bella strung the poor guy along, had him do all sorts of favors for her, made him think she was really over Edward and ready to join the living and have a normal life. You can't fault him for being bitter for pouring out his soul to her. Despite being a werewolf, despite the threat of him losing control, like Paul with Sam (Of course I'd love it if Sam turned out to be a Shewolf and the scratches on her face were a result of her fighting in werewolf form.), he's done more to protect Bella from danger than Edward ever did. It was he that pulled her out of the water before she drowned, it was he and his werewolf brethren that saved her from Dreadlock Vampire, it was also he and his brethren who chased off Victoria. I totally understand why Jacob would be so bitter, because of all he's done for Bella to get her to see how self destructive her obsession with Edward is.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 02:54:36 AM by Cosmic Muse »
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Offline ShadowDog

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2010, 07:01:37 AM »
All true.  But you don't save somebody's live in the hopes she'll reward you by letting you bone her.  You do it because it's the right thing to do.  Don't get me wrong, she totally used him, but he can't play the "I saved you so bend over" card either.
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Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2010, 09:46:51 AM »
All true.  But you don't save somebody's live in the hopes she'll reward you by letting you bone her.  You do it because it's the right thing to do.  Don't get me wrong, she totally used him, but he can't play the "I saved you so bend over" card either.
But he doesn't play that card, which is what makes him a good character. So this whole book series is (among other bad messages) about how it's okay for a girl to make the nice guy finish last. Bleh. Stephanie Meyer, I hope they are making a whole new level of Hell for you.



Offline Cosmic Muse

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2010, 12:45:43 PM »
All true.  But you don't save somebody's live in the hopes she'll reward you by letting you bone her.  You do it because it's the right thing to do.  Don't get me wrong, she totally used him, but he can't play the "I saved you so bend over" card either.
But he doesn't play that card, which is what makes him a good character. So this whole book series is (among other bad messages) about how it's okay for a girl to make the nice guy finish last. Bleh. Stephanie Meyer, I hope they are making a whole new level of Hell for you.

Exactly. Jacob Black never once intimated that all he wanted to so was have sex with her. He, I believe, does truly love Bella enough to not want to see her get hurt. I believe even in wolf form this is true because he didn't plow past her to get to Edward at the end of New Moon.

And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.
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Offline LucasM

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2010, 02:59:52 PM »
Alice's power working in the first film would make sense because Alice's is not intrusive on Bella, mind or body.

Jasper now having an effect on her screws that up.

I think she has the power to make people see nature or something in one's mind....

How oddly specific...not just illusions but specific illusions only.  Morbid curiosity makes me ask....and this helps this vampire how?

I don't know, and I was wrong, anyway, from that same link, "Anyway, Zafrina can make you see anything she wants you to see--literally, the power of illusion.  "Cleolinda pointed out in the 2nd Book recap how one of the Volturi can see relationships AND THAT'S NOT A SUPERPOWER!!!!

And, I was with you with this, I totally wanted to defend Alice & Jasper, because, you know, it's because they're not intrusive in her head (seeing the future is independant of Bella's mind) but, Jasper IS.  He can control how she feels.  AND, if he can do that, why can't Dakota Vamping pain her?  Emotions are of the heart and not of the mind and that's why Jasper can affect her whereas Jane (that's it, Jane), has to invade her mind to send messages to her nerves?....Possibly?

Or, it's just a shit series.

How's this for a fan(?)wank (it's the term, I'm not a 'fan', OK?):  It is possible that Jasper doesn't affect the mind directly, but affects hormones which then go on to affect mood... so 'indirectly'.  Therefore, he would have effects where Fanning-vamp (or anyone else) wouldn't.

Or... it's just a series that keeps its continuity only when convenient.

I asked a friend whose read the books about something in the final book that bugs me just hearing about it... that is:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

Agree 100% on the 'leave James to the Volturi'... unless there is a lot of 'vampire red tape' for them to act on such things (in the meantime jeopardizing the Cullen's home life).  But again, unless that is stated, it is poor writing to make people make up SO many explanations to justify SO many things.  Hell, where was her friggin' editor when the books were submitted?  [Or where was there an editor reading the screenplay for things that might have been mentioned in the books that were important to continuity/common sense?]
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 03:05:48 PM by LucasM »
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Offline ShadowDog

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2010, 04:29:54 PM »
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.
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Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2010, 04:51:28 PM »
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.

Does that human receptionist have a phone?  Wouldn't she have to have to set up those tour groups?

BTW....Plot holes # 3,896 and # 5,987 of this "Saga"...

At what point does attacking people, tearing them to shreds, drinking their blood and leaving the remains behind finally cross the line into "calling attention to yourself"?  I'm thinking the Volteri wouldn't deal with James and company because some how killing humans - no matter what the reason - doesn't count. Witness they're swallowing large groups of easily traced vacationers the last time we see them.  I guess anything short of finding a crowd and jumping up and down yelling, "I'm a vampire" is fair game.

Another question though....Alice claimed that she couldn't go stop Edward by herself because he could read her mind and he'd know she was coming to stop him...   So why couldn't he also read in her mind that she'd just seen Bella alive and well and know that it's true?


Offline LucasM

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2010, 05:51:14 PM »
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.

Does that human receptionist have a phone?  Wouldn't she have to have to set up those tour groups?

BTW....Plot holes # 3,896 and # 5,987 of this "Saga"...

At what point does attacking people, tearing them to shreds, drinking their blood and leaving the remains behind finally cross the line into "calling attention to yourself"?  I'm thinking the Volteri wouldn't deal with James and company because some how killing humans - no matter what the reason - doesn't count. Witness they're swallowing large groups of easily traced vacationers the last time we see them.  I guess anything short of finding a crowd and jumping up and down yelling, "I'm a vampire" is fair game.

I didn't think of that, so I was mistaken in my bringing it up, too, but I fully agree... and will amplify this.  For the longest time with James et al, they were thought to be 'animal attacks'.  And when they did start killing around Forks as if they were humans, they weren't doing anything 'spectacular' in the murder department.  The Volturi said they only dealt with egregiously noticeable killings.  Since those in Forks thought it was first animals, then humans, that's probably not 'special' enough for them to get involved.

Another question though....Alice claimed that she couldn't go stop Edward by herself because he could read her mind and he'd know she was coming to stop him...   So why couldn't he also read in her mind that she'd just seen Bella alive and well and know that it's true?

That was one 'plot hole' I thought was implied clearly enough.  Edward later said to Bella that there were 'ways' for Alice to lie to the Volturi with her visions (by 'faking one', presumably, as that would be the only way he could see something that wasn't going to happen).

If Alice could lie to/hide from the Volturi, Edward would know that she could distort her thoughts to him.

But that she 'could'  fake such a thing doesn't take care of the fact that he couldn't wait a mere 1-2 minutes to see if Bella showed up and Alice  was lying.  That, with whatever trust had been built up between them over the previous 100+ years.

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Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2010, 06:14:23 PM »
That was one 'plot hole' I thought was implied clearly enough.  Edward later said to Bella that there were 'ways' for Alice to lie to the Volturi with her visions (by 'faking one', presumably, as that would be the only way he could see something that wasn't going to happen).

If Alice could lie to/hide from the Volturi, Edward would know that she could distort her thoughts to him.

I didn't hear Edward say that...or that was at one of the many points where I just lost interest.

So, for that matter Alice could have been lying to the Volturi about Bella "turning" some day?

Quote
But that she 'could'  fake such a thing doesn't take care of the fact that he couldn't wait a mere 1-2 minutes to see if Bella showed up and Alice  was lying.

Well, the mind reading didn't matter if Bella showed up.  The whole question was why Bella had to be there at all.

Quote
That, with whatever trust had been built up between them over the previous 100+ years.

[Mr Rogers voice] Can you say 'plot contrivance'?  I thought you could! [/Mr Rogers voice]

Well, Edward did say you can't trust vampires....   ;)


Offline Lovye

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2010, 06:59:09 PM »
No, no, no!  Alice can see the future.  What she saw was that, in the future, Bella would be a vampire, BUT, she has a limited vision and if plans change, she can't see them, or can't forsee them.

Also, Edward said there's ways to lie to the Volturi, not that Alice specifically did.

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