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Author Topic: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?  (Read 16998 times)

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Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2010, 07:07:52 PM »
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.
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Offline LucasM

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2010, 07:09:40 PM »
That was one 'plot hole' I thought was implied clearly enough.  Edward later said to Bella that there were 'ways' for Alice to lie to the Volturi with her visions (by 'faking one', presumably, as that would be the only way he could see something that wasn't going to happen).

If Alice could lie to/hide from the Volturi, Edward would know that she could distort her thoughts to him.

I didn't hear Edward say that...or that was at one of the many points where I just lost interest.

So, for that matter Alice could have been lying to the Volturi about Bella "turning" some day?

Quote
But that she 'could'  fake such a thing doesn't take care of the fact that he couldn't wait a mere 1-2 minutes to see if Bella showed up and Alice  was lying.

Well, the mind reading didn't matter if Bella showed up.  The whole question was why Bella had to be there at all.

Quote
That, with whatever trust had been built up between them over the previous 100+ years.

[Mr Rogers voice] Can you say 'plot contrivance'?  I thought you could! [/Mr Rogers voice]

Well, Edward did say you can't trust vampires....   ;)

 ;D

No, no, no!  Alice can see the future.  What she saw was that, in the future, Bella would be a vampire, BUT, she has a limited vision and if plans change, she can't see them, or can't forsee them.

Also, Edward said there's ways to lie to the Volturi, not that Alice specifically did.

I hate me. :(

Edward's comment about being "able to lie to the Volturi" was his response to Bella making the half-statement/half-question, "so I'm going to be a vampire."  That implies rather intensely that Alice's vision was a lie about the Volturus 'reading' Bella as a vampire.  (i.e. Ed was saying that she wouldn't become one, despite Alice envisioning her sparkling for the Volturus.)  [If I remember correctly, they mumbled that little conversation as the tour group was walking to their doom.]

My issue wasn't quite as big as PSCD's.  PSCD's was, "why did Bella have to be in Italy at all".  Mine was, "why couldn't Alice use her bionic speed to keep Eddie in the dark the couple minutes it would take for Bella to arrive so that there wasn't any dramatic tension about "high noon" and "would she get to him in time".  [And, of course, the way I phrased it answered the question: no tension.  Therefore: plot device.]

And yes, it is sad that we are all analyzing this more intensely than the screenwriter or, apparently, anyone else involved with the movie, as apparently no-one involved said, "this makes no sense!"  (We're possibly analyzing it more than the author, I haven't read any of the books so can't speak to how saturated-with-holes and 'convenient' tension they are.)
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Offline Lovye

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2010, 07:25:30 PM »
Ah.  The line about ways to lie to the Volturi was at the end of the movie, back when they were in Forks, in Bella's bedroom...at least that's when I remember it.  I heard it, though, not as Alice lied about that, but, that, they can keep the Volturi in the dark in the future, making them see Bella sparkles, but she doesn't, that is, a mind can be changed.  Alice sees the future, but, something could happen in the future....

But, you're right; we've given this more thought than anybody who enjoys the series....possibly.


Offline ShadowDog

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2010, 07:27:33 PM »
I'm a writer so I know that sometimes you just have to accomplish something and sometimes it takes so long to explain why the movie grinds to a fucking halt.  So if it's a choice between pacing and closing a plothole, I'll choose pacing.

Unfortunately, this movie chooses neither.  LOL
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Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2010, 07:29:01 PM »
Ah.  The line about ways to lie to the Volturi was at the end of the movie, back when they were in Forks, in Bella's bedroom...at least that's when I remember it.  I heard it, though, not as Alice lied about that, but, that, they can keep the Volturi in the dark in the future, making them see Bella sparkles, but she doesn't, that is, a mind can be changed.  Alice sees the future, but, something could happen in the future....
For that is where we will be spending the REST of our lives.


But, you're right; we've given this more thought than anybody who enjoys the series....possibly.
Like, guh. My bffs and I have long conversations about Edward's dreaminess all the time. Duh.



Offline Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2010, 07:32:47 PM »
No, no, no!  Alice can see the future.  What she saw was that, in the future, Bella would be a vampire, BUT, she has a limited vision and if plans change, she can't see them, or can't forsee them

So her "power" is kind of useless.

Quote
Also, Edward said there's ways to lie to the Volturi, not that Alice specifically did.

Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.


Offline Lovye

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2010, 07:36:01 PM »
So her "power" is kind of useless.

.....Yes....

Quote
Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.

.... :opens mouth for rebuttal:  >_<


Offline Darth Geek

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2010, 07:45:10 PM »
No, no, no!  Alice can see the future.  What she saw was that, in the future, Bella would be a vampire, BUT, she has a limited vision and if plans change, she can't see them, or can't forsee them

So her "power" is kind of useless.

Quote
Also, Edward said there's ways to lie to the Volturi, not that Alice specifically did.

Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.
I wonder what Lawgiver Day is like in Italy.



Offline LucasM

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2010, 07:45:25 PM »
So her "power" is kind of useless.

.....Yes....

Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.

.... :opens mouth for rebuttal:  >_<

 :D

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Offline Ayriana22

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2010, 08:33:09 PM »
So her "power" is kind of useless.

.....Yes....

Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.

.... :opens mouth for rebuttal:  >_<

 :D

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Time for my 2cents.

After having read the book series ( and subsequently wanting to gouge out my eyes  :gouge: )
I've come to this realization, Stephenie Meyers is in fact the worst writer in the world. She wrote 4 books full of hollow, narcissistic people, no plot line and more plot contrivances than should be legally allowed. The ONLY decent character in all  of those books was Jacob and even he turned out to be a bit whiny at times. He also sets a bad example  for staying with someone who OBVIOUSLY doesn't care about anyone else but themselves. And don't even get me started on that whole "imprinting" on a toddler thing, I'm chalking that up to Meyers being a moron, oops, sorry, mormon.
Analyzing this cinematic travesty is pretty much pointless because the original books were  just so poorly written. Just have to hold on for the riffs and wait till the fourth movie comes out so we can all just chalk this up to being a bad dream. A sparkly, void-of-logic, staring filled bad dream.
In conclusion:
1) The books were terrible and had no continuity
2) The movies were terrible and had no continuity, and crappy CGI (They could have done the werewolves SO much better)
3) Prolonged exposure to twilight will probably make you insane. Just stop trying to figure it out, it is roughly the most incoherent piece of literary dreck ever printed.
4) The same goes for the cinematic aberrations that we now have as a result of the books.
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Offline ShadowDog

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2010, 10:07:43 PM »
The filmmakers can't hide behind a badly written book though so they share the blame in this.  Many piss poor novels have been turned into awesome movies by superior storytelling filmmakers.  The same could have been done here if the filmmakers had any balls.
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Offline Cosmic Muse

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2010, 06:15:58 AM »
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.

Maybe it's because I come from the generation that didn't rely 100% on cell phones alone as a means of communication, but I guess what I'm thinking of is that they have a land line somewhere. I myself have a land line and a cell phone because just having a cell as your main means of communication is stupid. Alice should have known what her home phone number is anyways and I'm certain any one of Edward's "family" members would have rushed up to hm and tld him they have Alice and Bella on the line. Also providing that all they had were cell phones, I'd have thought at least another Cullen would have a working cell phone Alice could call to inform Edward Bella was still alive.

As for the Volturi, Edward knew their address. heck, even Bella, a mortal was able to sniff out their location using her formidable Mary Sue powers. Someone in the Cullen family should have known ways of getting a hold of them as well. Besides, the Volturi would be stupid not to have at least one of their own or paid mortal mercenaries monitoring the actions of their vampire brethren abroad. Cripes, even the immortals in Highlander had mortals watching over them.
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Offline goflyblind

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2010, 06:27:13 AM »
...because just having a cell as your main means of communication is stupid.

why? three years without a landline hasn't been a problem for me.
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Offline Cosmic Muse

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2010, 06:43:22 AM »
2) ......and crappy CGI (They could have done the werewolves SO much better)

Really!! Wouldn't it have been much easier to film real wolves or trained wolf hybrids on green screen sets, digitally enlarge them, then insert them into the finished movie?

why? three years without a landline hasn't been a problem for me.

Like I said, it could be my generation. I'm close to 40 and I've found Cells to be the most unreliable means of communication. Plus leaving a phone company based land line is much easier and doesn't involve buying your way out of a contract.

And I must also stress what I'd typed earlier about the other Cullens having their own cell phones. Alice should have easily dialed Carlisle or Esmee to clear up the Jacob initiated misunderstanding about Bella's lack of a demise. You can't tell me only Edward or Alice were the only family members with cell phones.
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Offline ShadowDog

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Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2010, 07:18:00 AM »
Don't forget though, Edward was by himself he wasn't with the rest of his family.  They implied Edward wasn't even in the same timezone as the rest of his family.

They could have called the rest of his family and some of them could have rushed to the Vulture lair, that's true.  That's something.

Boy, it's hard work to keep an emo chump kid from killing himself, isn't it?  Sheesh.  All I can say is if Edward was ready to kill himself over someone as plain as Bella then Monica Bellucci would have blown his mind!
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