All things discworld

[Edward J Grug III]

It's like trying to argue with a racist, you can't change their mind, they are wrong, but they are ignorant.

Their are hundreds of incredibly intelligent comics books, that go way "beyond the level of a children's book in terms of its complexity," and the fact that the only example you can use to show they are somehow inferior is to make a very vague mention of capes and tights shows that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Just what comics HAVE you read that you are such an authority?

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

no offense edward, But your way too emotionally involved in this discussion.  I know because you make comics   or webcomics at least which are a beast of a different nature

[Edward J Grug III]

I make comic books too

[Edward J Grug III]

Exactly my point, all you've read are superhero comics. That's like only watching soap operas and saying that all TV is stupid.

Try reading Maus, ACME Novelty Library, Age of Bronze, or Jason. Or work by Craig Thompson, Joann Sfar, Jeffrey Brown, Chester Brown, Joe Matt or Seth.

You can hold Bone next to almost any fantasy novel. From Hell, and a lot of Alan Moore's work, like The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, are absolutely brilliant, and books like The Fate of The Artist and The Cute Manifesto are incredible essays on art and artists.

Did you read Time's book of the year this year? It was a comic book, Fun Home, or American Born Chinese, which was nominated for the National Book Award (and won tons of other awards besides).

I'm sorry, but like I said, you are talking as an authority on a subject you know very little about.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

That's because you're not talking about comic books.

merely because two examples werent comics?  besides you never even addressed the point i brought up about carroll.

[Edward J Grug III]

I think you missed the sarcasm there, you havent really bothered to explain HOW or WHY medium is directly related to intellectual level of content.  Your point is very odd and vague.  As to on topic, pratchet wrote "The Last Hero"  a full novel but used pictures on every page, in effect a comic book,  is that particular novel any less of a decent novel becuase the pictures were present? 

I think there's a vast difference between an illustrated novel and a comic book.  There were no word-balloons coming from Cohen's mouth in that book; there were whole pages of text, thoughts, actions, descriptions--with an occasional picture reflectin git.  We weren't reduced to reading what one guy says to another guy--in about 30 words per page, total.  A book simply has more room to say things, and thus has more to say. 

So a novel with more words in it is automatically better than a novel with less?

The Da Vinci Code is better than The Curious Incident Of The Dog In The Night?

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

and clearly a haiku is less note worthy than a limrick.

[Steve-O]

From Hell, and a lot of Alan Moore's work, like The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

I'm no "graphic novel enthusiast", but I believe Watchmen stands up to nearly any other literary work I've ever run across.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

A visual medium can be a text like any other, but I'd argue that it can't convey the number or complexity of meaning that language can

That right there is the crux of the disagreement.  So please expound, please as you say argue it.  We are saying that the medium can in fact be brought to a high level of complexity.  That in fact the medium is irrelevant.  The other thing to note is this Wouldnt something without words be in fact harder to convey a lot of things that are easy to convey with words.  Like acting for example.  Movies can be art and the acting can be as every bit complex as a novel.

Sure I did; again, that's not a comic book, it's novel with illustrations.  Alice in Wonderland works just fine and is completely comprehensible without Tenniel's illustrations.  Does a comic work without its pictures?

that wasnt my point.  My point was that it was a childrens novel.  You relegated comics to the level of childrens stories so i was pointing out that a childrens story may in fact have intellectual thoughts. 

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

I'd say that it can be read by children, but anything laced with references to parliamentary politics is not, to me, a children's novel

I hate to say it man but if you really beleive that then you are really missinformed about Carrols intents and his personality. 

and I don't see how you can seriously say that a comic book with 500 words total can stack up to something that has pages and pages and thousands of words to do what it does

Its like this, it all depends on what words they are. 

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

HA i own it.  Ive had it for years and years and years.  Look at my freaken avatar and banner man, im a alice freak   i also have the unabriged complete works of lewis carrol and one called the universe in a hankercheif which is a collection of his puzzles and games he liked to do.  Ive read a few biographys on him and find him REALLY interesting.  I also have read (though yet to own) the annotated hunting of the snark.  I wish they would make an annotated sylvie and bruno since he himself put so much importance into that one.

[Edward J Grug III]

Exactly my point, all you've read are superhero comics. That's like only watching soap operas and saying that all TV is stupid.

Try reading Maus, ACME Novelty Library, Age of Bronze, or Jason. Or work by Craig Thompson, Joann Sfar, Jeffrey Brown, Chester Brown, Joe Matt or Seth.

You can hold Bone next to almost any fantasy novel. From Hell, and a lot of Alan Moore's work, like The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, are absolutely brilliant, and books like The Fate of The Artist and The Cute Manifesto are incredible essays on art and artists.

Did you read Time's book of the year this year? It was a comic book, Fun Home, or American Born Chinese, which was nominated for the National Book Award (and won tons of other awards besides).

I'm sorry, but like I said, you are talking as an authority on a subject you know very little about.

[Edward J Grug III]

I just finished Wintersmith, I didn't really like it very much. I did really enjoy the last chapter though. I also didn't like Thud! very much. This ia a shame because I had been off Pratchett for a few years, then I burned through all of the books I had missed and was loving them more than ever.

I haven't read Going Postal yet though, I hear that one's good.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

I dont understand how you didnt like thud  it was one of my favs,  also going postal WAS a good one.  it didnt rely on pre established chars, so it was better for it

[Edward J Grug III]

It was just a bit samey for me, I think.

I guess I'm a little tired of the Watch right now.