RiffTrax Forum

RiffTrax Discussion => RiffTrax Presents => World Enough And Time => Topic started by: torgosPizza on May 13, 2008, 04:25:56 PM

Title: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: torgosPizza on May 13, 2008, 04:25:56 PM
RiffTrax recently had an amicable phone call with James Cawley, aka "Kirk" from the New Voyages series. Mr. Cawley mentioned that he and the rest of New Voyages were flattered to have received "the RiffTrax treatment." We respect their intellectual property, and want to be able to constructively and creatively benefit both parties, without putting any of their hard work and professional relationships in jeopardy.

Therefore, we've decided to remove the VOD versions of the New Voyages tracks from the site.

We have discussed potential ways of working together with the New Voyages crew, and are looking ahead to a mutual relationship with them that benefits us all. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Bob on May 13, 2008, 04:30:41 PM
And everyone is happy.   Good!
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: DarthChimay on May 13, 2008, 04:36:56 PM
He didn't threaten to "beam your ass from here to Timbuktu?" Seems like a missed opportunity.

Seriously, glad everything worked out. When is To Serve All My Days (With Fava Beans and a Nice Chianti) due?
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: lwelyk on May 13, 2008, 04:37:35 PM
I'm glad I bought it already. I guess I'll have to go through the trouble of syncing next time there's one of these.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: jetjaguar15 on May 13, 2008, 04:39:02 PM
Downloaded in just the nick of time. Whew!
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 13, 2008, 04:41:35 PM
The audio ducking on it was terrible anyway.  I redid it and it is much funnier when you can still here the dialog from the movie.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ShadowDog on May 13, 2008, 04:50:54 PM
Downloaded in just the nick of time. Whew!

Yeah, no doubt.  I was hoping that Rifftrax would have to balls to stand up to this pressure but with each new poster complaining about the same thing over and over again I started to see the handwriting on the wall. :(

I'm of two minds about this.  On one hand it will be nice to see the end of all the whining about this when Rifftrax was doing nothing wrong in the first place.  On the other hand, I won't be purchasing any further Phase 2 rifftrax because if I'm going to have to go through the extreme pain in the ass of syncing up the videos it'll be so that I can watch them on the big screen in DVD form.  Since I have a Mac and there is no riffplayer available for it, and since Rifftrax folded to the pressure on this issue, I would have to sync by hand on my computer.  Fuck that.  It's not worth the trouble for a one hour film on my small computer screen.

I did just download Saw though so that's a nice consolutation prize waiting for me. :P
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Conor on May 13, 2008, 04:53:31 PM
There wasn't any "pressure" and there wasn't and "folding".  We talked things over with the people at Star Trek Phase 2 and came to an understanding.  You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: mrbasehart on May 13, 2008, 04:55:27 PM
Cool.  Any idea if it will affect the release date of the next New Voyages riff? Or are you going to release it sans-video on the same date?
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Bob on May 13, 2008, 04:56:30 PM
There wasn't any "pressure" and there wasn't and "folding".  We talked things over with the people at Star Trek Phase 2 and came to an understanding.  You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

So, the violence from GTA IV did not cause you to go medival on there asses?    Huh, I guess those parent watch dog groups were wrong after all.

Natually, I prefer the IPOD version with the riffing built in, but since I cna use Divx dvds, I just put in my ipod mp3, the DVD in, and I am good to go.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ShadowDog on May 13, 2008, 05:10:42 PM
There wasn't any "pressure" and there wasn't and "folding".  We talked things over with the people at Star Trek Phase 2 and came to an understanding.  You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

You can get a pissy tone or lecture me some more about "real life" if you want to, I'm still going to call it the way I see it.  I'm a paying customer and as such I will exercise my right to speak my mind.  I'm a BIG fan of Rifftrax, but I'm not a rabid or mindless fan.  If I like something, which is 99% of the time, I'll say it.  If I don't like something, as in this very rare case so far, well I'm going to say that to too.  This is a disappointing action on your part, but it's a done deal and I'll move on.  And I'm sure you guys will continue to please me 99% of the time.  You have a great track record on that so far.  But if you're looking for all of your posters to only speak up when they are pleased or see things the same way you do, that's not going to happen in this case.

Bottom line: You guys must have thought it was okay to offer the synced up video in the first place, or you wouldn't have done it.  After it goes up, a thousand harpies descended on this place and whined about it.  You stopped offering the video.   That's folding to pressure.  But again, just one fat man's opinion.  Everyone else seems happy with this so I'm in the minority.  That's fine.  I'll watch Saw and be feeling better soon. :P
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: DarthChimay on May 13, 2008, 05:33:18 PM
There wasn't any "pressure" and there wasn't and "folding".  We talked things over with the people at Star Trek Phase 2 and came to an understanding.  You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

And it went a little something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/XyhhFzE5O5U&hl=en
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ShadowDog on May 13, 2008, 05:40:20 PM
LMFAO!
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 13, 2008, 05:58:59 PM
You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

Ahhhh, so through bribery and kick-backs.   ;)  I got ya.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: MontyServo on May 13, 2008, 06:14:56 PM
I hope that with them being thrilled to get the Rifftrax treatment, that they will be active on their end in promoting the Rifftrax for their episodes.  Letting their fans know that it's OK to have a laugh at their expense and that they should check it out.  Could bring a lot of new customers to Rifftrax.

I'm not surprised to see the videos pulled from here.  I figured that they would ask for that much at least, and that once asked Rifftrax would do the classy thing and pull the videos.

 
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 13, 2008, 06:16:02 PM
I figured this is how things would play out. The fact that Cawley contacted Rifftrax personally just shows that the New Voyages/Phase II folks are the cool people that they appear to be in the interview clips I've seen of them. I kinda wonder in what way will Rifftrax and New Voyages "work together" on future releases, but I look forward to finding out. Maybe with some sort of "official sanction" from Phase II, the forum over there will chillax, and their members can hear about it, and find out what they are missing.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: mrbasehart on May 13, 2008, 06:17:58 PM
I figured this is how things would play out. The fact that Cawley contacted Rifftrax personally just shows that the New Voyages/Phase II folks are the cool people that they appear to be in the interview clips I've seen of them. I kinda wonder in what way will Rifftrax and New Voyages "work together" on future releases, but I look forward to finding out. Maybe with some sort of "official sanction" from Phase II, the forum over there will chillax, and their members can hear about it, and find out what they are missing.

I see Mike, Kevin, and Bill as Romulans, perhaps Klingons, in a future New Voyages episode...   ;)
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 13, 2008, 06:18:23 PM
Well it's a no-brainer.  Paramount basically owns the videos since they are using Paramount's characters and names.  Paramount is who they should be getting permission from.  Maybe Paramount would let them do VOD's if they got a licensing fee.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: torgosPizza on May 13, 2008, 06:22:00 PM
But if you're looking for all of your posters to only speak up when they are pleased or see things the same way you do, that's not going to happen in this case... [people] whined about it. You stopped offering the video.   That's folding to pressure.  ...again, just one fat man's opinion.

That's not an opinion, that's a theory. And as we explained to you, an incorrect theory

What happened was not in any way, shape or form a direct result of "people whining" about the video. It may be an indirect result, because I'm not sure how else the producers and other people involved would've ever found out about the site if it hadn't been through people blogging about it and debating it in forums.

The actual bottom line is that we didn't "fold to pressure" - we respected Cawley's wishes and removed the videos. Sorry to burst your bubble :)

Regarding your first point, we don't mind if you speak up about your disappointment; just don't act so surprised when we correct you on something you say that is blatantly false.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: RoninFox on May 13, 2008, 06:24:06 PM
Well it's a no-brainer.  Paramount basically owns the videos since they are using Paramount's characters and names.  Paramount is who they should be getting permission from.  Maybe Paramount would let them do VOD's if they got a licensing fee.

But then we'd almost certainly see a price increase for them, and why go through all that?

I'm a little disappointed here, but I'll get over it and just get the next episode the hard* way.

*yeah, not really that hard, but whatever.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 13, 2008, 06:27:15 PM
Well it's a no-brainer.  Paramount basically owns the videos since they are using Paramount's characters and names.  Paramount is who they should be getting permission from.  Maybe Paramount would let them do VOD's if they got a licensing fee.

But then we'd almost certainly see a price increase for them, and why go through all that?

I'm a little disappointed here, but I'll get over it and just get the next episode the hard* way.

*yeah, not really that hard, but whatever.

Well you could always just buy the .mp3 but for the uninitiated who need the video and audio all together, that might be a good compromise.  If possible.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: BathTub on May 13, 2008, 06:30:48 PM
Perhaps they could unban me from the forums then?
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 13, 2008, 06:31:25 PM
I see Mike, Kevin, and Bill as Romulans, perhaps Klingons, in a future New Voyages episode...   ;)

Or maybe Cawley will join them to riff "In Harm's Way". He can pretend he's Joel Robinson or something. 'Cause Joel is a classic character, like Willie Lomen, or Falstaff... or Mel, the cook on "Alice". Many actors can play play him, each giving a different interpretation to the character.  ;D
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: torgosPizza on May 13, 2008, 06:32:22 PM
Well done.  :clap:
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 13, 2008, 06:36:32 PM
Well done.  :clap:

Ummm... who are you saying "Well done" to, tP? I didn't just guess it, did I?  :o
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: DarthChimay on May 13, 2008, 06:38:29 PM
What, nobody's calling anyone a SELLOUT yet?

How dare you bring that up, you SELLOUT!!!
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: torgosPizza on May 13, 2008, 08:12:38 PM
Well done.  :clap:

Ummm... who are you saying "Well done" to, tP? I didn't just guess it, did I?  :o

I was referring to your usage of the whole "Kirk is like Shakespeare" line of thinking. :)

Also, this from the TrekMovie.com blog:

On Saturday TrekMovie.com reported that the former MST3Kers at Rifftrax released a comic commentary for the Star Trek Phase II episode “World Enough and Time,” but that STP2 producer James Cawley was not happy about it being available as a synced video download. Today Cawley informs TrekMovie that Rifftrax and Phase II have worked things out and WEaT will be available as audio only.

According to Cawley, although he does not own the rights to Star Trek, he does own the video and contended that anyone selling it would be violating Phase II’s agreement with CBS Paramount. Cawley says that as soon as he contacted the Rifftrax team, they immediately complied with his request to stop offering the video downloads. The Rifftrax site was updated today and only the audio file version is available.

Cawley says there is no enmity between the parties and that he was actually a bit flattered to learn the Riffers were fans of Phase II/New Voyages. Cawley noted:

    "I suppose it is really cool. I guess it shows that you have ‘arrived’ when you get made fun of like that."

And the Rifftrax team agrees. In an email, Bill Corbett (one of the ‘Riffers’) tells TrekMovie “James Cawley was a great sport about the whole thing.” He also joked (showing his Trek geek cred):

     "James Cawley has challenged Mike Nelson, Kevin Murphy and myself to a duel, invoking kal-if-fee. He looks like a pretty fit guy, so we’re not too happy about this development. (Gulp!)"

As for the future of Rifftrax Trek, they have already recorded a commentary for the Phase II episode “To Serve All My Days” and so that should be released soon. RiffTrax has already done three Star Trek features (V, VI, & GEN) [available as a three pack]. Corbett tells TrekMovie it is possible they will do more but they are taking a break from Trek and “don’t think that far in advance.”
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: CHF01 on May 13, 2008, 09:11:02 PM
Great, I'm glad things worked out.  :)
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 13, 2008, 09:16:36 PM
Well done.  :clap:

Ummm... who are you saying "Well done" to, tP? I didn't just guess it, did I?  :o
l Corbett (one of the ‘Riffers’) tells TrekMovie “James Cawley was a great sport about the whole thing.” He also joked (showing his Trek geek cred):

     "James Cawley has challenged Mike Nelson, Kevin Murphy and myself to a duel, invoking kal-if-fee. He looks like a pretty fit guy, so we’re not too happy about this development. (Gulp!)"


My question is, who is the lady that these four men are fighting over?  Susan/Debbie?
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ImOscardotcom on May 13, 2008, 09:20:55 PM
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNERD!

(http://blogs.chron.com/blog9/ogre01.jpg)


What is that from? I've seen it around the forum a few times, but I never got the reference.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 13, 2008, 09:21:44 PM
I'm ancient

Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ImOscardotcom on May 13, 2008, 09:24:07 PM
I'm ancient

I knew it was from the '80s...  ;)
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Edward J Grug III on May 13, 2008, 09:24:13 PM
There wasn't any "pressure" and there wasn't and "folding".  We talked things over with the people at Star Trek Phase 2 and came to an understanding.  You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

You can get a pissy tone or lecture me some more about "real life" if you want to, I'm still going to call it the way I see it.  I'm a paying customer and as such I will exercise my right to speak my mind.  I'm a BIG fan of Rifftrax, but I'm not a rabid or mindless fan.  If I like something, which is 99% of the time, I'll say it.  If I don't like something, as in this very rare case so far, well I'm going to say that to too.  This is a disappointing action on your part, but it's a done deal and I'll move on.  And I'm sure you guys will continue to please me 99% of the time.  You have a great track record on that so far.  But if you're looking for all of your posters to only speak up when they are pleased or see things the same way you do, that's not going to happen in this case.

Bottom line: You guys must have thought it was okay to offer the synced up video in the first place, or you wouldn't have done it.  After it goes up, a thousand harpies descended on this place and whined about it.  You stopped offering the video.   That's folding to pressure.  But again, just one fat man's opinion.  Everyone else seems happy with this so I'm in the minority.  That's fine.  I'll watch Saw and be feeling better soon. :P

Haha, there's a difference between "calling it like you see it" and just making up a story to fit what you think you see.




I guess I downloaded the VOD just in time too.

Phew!
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 13, 2008, 09:26:30 PM
I'm ancient

I thought it was from the '80s...  ;)

Fix your profile cuz I can't even tell how old you are to mock you effectively.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ImOscardotcom on May 13, 2008, 09:41:13 PM
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNERD!

(http://blogs.chron.com/blog9/ogre01.jpg)


What is that from? I've seen it around the forum a few times, but I never got the reference.

Revenge of the Nerds. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge_of_the_nerds)  That charming fellow is "Ogre."

That's what I thought, but I didn't want a mob of '80s teen comedy fans chasing me if I got it wrong.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ShadowDog on May 14, 2008, 12:40:27 AM
That's not an opinion, that's a theory. And as we explained to you, an incorrect theory

My theory, wrong or not, was my opinion at the time with the information I had at hand.  But forget that, I'm not going to argue semantics with you as far as what is opinion and what isn't.  Nobody wins that kind of conversation on the internet.  I like everybody here, and I love the Rifftrax company.  I think you, TorgosPizza, do a freaking amazing job around here.  I didn't wake up this morning with the intention of "hey, let's go to this site I love and start pissing off people I like."

The only reason I'm continuing to talk about this at all is that I have to clear this up:

Regarding your first point, we don't mind if you speak up about your disappointment; just don't act so surprised when we correct you on something you say that is blatantly false.

My reaction to Coner and my statement about speaking my mind had nothing to do with "surprise on you correcting me" and had everything to do with Coner's sarcastic and patronizing tone.  There's a way to set someone straight about the facts without including sarcastic postscripts about "real life".  You, torgosPizza, have mastered that art.  There was no patronizing, condescending, or pissy tone in your reply.  Now go back and read Conners reply again.

Did he say anything horrible?  Or course not.  Did I overreact to it because I was already irritated?  Absolutely.  But he could learn from your example.  This isn't a normal message board where the Admins and Moderators can be slick, catty, sarcastic pricks and everyone cheers because it's all fun and games.  This is a message board directly associated with a commercial enterprise.  Would you tolerate a sarcastic bank clerk?  What about a waiter who wants to lecture you on "real life" when you complain about your cold steak?  No, you wouldn't.  Even if the customer is wrong, there's a right and wrong way to address issues.  If you wouldn't tolerate it from other businesses, why would you tolerate that crap from the official representatives of a commercially operated message board?

That kind of reply says "We only want to hear from you when you like what's going on."  YOUR replies, on the other hand, say "here's the facts, however they may fall."  You're just as respectful when someone disagrees with you as when they agree.  So that was the genesis of my rant.  I was irritated by the action taken, I was reacting to the limited information I had at the time, and I responded to a pissy tone with a pissy tone.  It's no biggie in the overall scheme of things and hopefully I'm done pissing people off this week.  That's not why I come here.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 14, 2008, 12:44:05 AM
Quote
You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

oh you LA DI DAH poeple with your being rational and polite and professional.  What ever happened to appearing on late night tv to bitch about one another until wwf pays you to do a pay per view match?

Quote
You guys must have thought it was okay to offer the synced up video in the first place, or you wouldn't have done it.  After it goes up, a thousand harpies descended on this place and whined about it.  You stopped offering the video.   That's folding to pressure.

and the sun goes around the earth because you can see it rise and set in the sky.  

Quote
and had everything to do with Coner's sarcastic and patronizing tone.

A SARCASTIC TONE? ON THE INTERNET?? And who the hell gave him a an audio version of this text forum so he could hear tone in the first place? 
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ShadowDog on May 14, 2008, 01:14:13 AM
That's it?  That's what you're going with?  Inverting the word "tone"?  That's your best shot?  I've seen better flame baiting on a Disney board.  Please tell me you're not one of the fan riffers around here.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 14, 2008, 01:21:43 AM
lol  what the hell is flame baiting?

and for the record  enot is inverted tone. 

nope im not one of the fan riffers, im disembaudio. 

brought to you by websters

inverted:

1 a: to reverse in position, order, or relationship b: to subject to inversion
2 a: to turn inside out or upside down b: to turn inward
3: to find the mathematical reciprocal of <to divide using fractions, invert the divisor and multiply>

im using #3 for my definition of tone. 
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: DarthChimay on May 14, 2008, 01:25:38 AM
I'm just gonna sit back and listen to the Amok Time music on repeat as this unfolds.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 14, 2008, 01:29:10 AM
and like shatner im already shirtless oiled up ready to go
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: ShadowDog on May 14, 2008, 01:35:57 AM
On the other hand, DarthChimay is a very funny dude.  I laugh every time you post.

And flame baiting, if you don't know, is being just enough of a douche to someone to get them to respond with excessive force so that they get banned for the sheer vileness and profanosity of their response ... without being so much of a douche that you get banned yourself first.  It's a very fine line and in my time I've been worked over by some masters of the art.  Ten years ago, I knew a dude at a Sliders message board who, if he put his mind to it, could get Mahatma Ghandi banned within 24 hours and not even get a warning himself.  Which brings us back to internet "tone of voice."  It's a very real thing.  :P
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 14, 2008, 01:47:45 AM
ah, well i dont think ive EVER seen anyone banned here.  course most people dont bother to respond with vulgarities even when they disagree or are angry.  Its just pointless if i thought you were that big of a tit, i wouldnt have even posted in the first place.  what would be the point? 

Quote
Which brings us back to internet "tone of voice."  It's a very real thing. 

not really.  Yeah people can USUALLY tell if something is sarcastic(tm) or whatever but for the most part tone is assumed.  Connors posts as a whole SOUND pretty terse.  I dont think he is.  Ive never heard anyone who has met him say he is.  And quite frankly ive seen him ribbed quite often on this board for his supposed terseness.  I think (and i could be wrong because i cant hear your real voice as you type) that you assumed that he was not just sarcastic(tm) but bore you some illwill.  But really you have no proof of that.  All it is, is an assumption. 
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: DarthChimay on May 14, 2008, 01:58:43 AM
and like shatner im already shirtless oiled up ready to go

I don't remember a moment in time any more where that wasn't true for me.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 14, 2008, 05:11:21 AM
and like shatner im already shirtless oiled up ready to go

I don't remember a moment in time any more where that wasn't true for me.

Except for your last murder trial.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Indomitus on May 14, 2008, 07:15:32 AM
I just wanted to chime in briefly here...  Being probably one of the few on this board who has actually been through a lawsuit along these lines (it was a trademark suit over a parody of a logo on a gripe site), I can say I'm glad the Rifftrax folks had the sense to take it down.  The producers of this actually reasonably decent** fanfic take enough risks as far as not "making money" off their creation.

Trust me (as I've had many such conversations with a very expensive lawyer myself), the argument that they're charging for the riff itself and not the movie absolutely would not stand in a court of law.  They were charging for access to the downloads, and those downloads included material that could open them and the original producers to the risk of a lawsuit.  That is how the courts would see it, folks.  It's best all around that the movie itself simply isn't there.


**Anyone who's seen the "Bring Back Kirk" shorts would agree, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: DarthChimay on May 14, 2008, 10:37:35 AM
and like shatner im already shirtless oiled up ready to go

I don't remember a moment in time any more where that wasn't true for me.

Except for your last murder trial.

Ya know, you offer to oil wrestle the judge for your freedom and everyone gets all weird...
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: mrbasehart on May 14, 2008, 10:38:54 AM
and like shatner im already shirtless oiled up ready to go

I don't remember a moment in time any more where that wasn't true for me.

Except for your last murder trial.

Ya know, you offer to oil wrestle the judge for your freedom and everyone gets all weird...

I think Judge Judy would've taken you in any case.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 14, 2008, 10:49:52 AM
and like shatner im already shirtless oiled up ready to go

I don't remember a moment in time any more where that wasn't true for me.

Except for your last murder trial.

Ya know, you offer to oil wrestle the judge for your freedom and everyone gets all weird...

I think Judge Judy would've taken you in any case.

She lacks the will of the warrior.  Now Judge Mathis would take you hands down.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 14, 2008, 10:50:49 AM
Trust me (as I've had many such conversations with a very expensive lawyer myself), the argument that they're charging for the riff itself and not the movie absolutely would not stand in a court of law.

I would be very interested to see how this would play out in court, as the question of "damages" (in the legal sense) would have to be brought up, and what sort of monetary damages would you suffer from a product that was given away? Most cases like these involve a product that is being sold commercially, so it's much easier to figure out what is being loss, even if it's an inflated figure. Rifftrax would probably end up paying court costs, and perhaps turn over what they made from sales of the file ("unjust enrichment"?), but the only money that would be made would be by the lawyers, I'd bet.

Unless Paramount got involved. That'd be a whole other thing, and the Phase II guys would probably get screwed at that point, so I'm glad it's not gonna come to that.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: DarthChimay on May 14, 2008, 11:03:50 AM
and like shatner im already shirtless oiled up ready to go

I don't remember a moment in time any more where that wasn't true for me.

Except for your last murder trial.

Ya know, you offer to oil wrestle the judge for your freedom and everyone gets all weird...

I think Judge Judy would've taken you in any case.

She lacks the will of the warrior.  Now Judge Mathis would take you hands down.

I dunno... she's got those harpy claws of hers. She'd probably scream "Kaliman shak ti da!" and rip my still beating heart out.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 14, 2008, 11:10:27 AM
and like shatner im already shirtless oiled up ready to go

I don't remember a moment in time any more where that wasn't true for me.

Except for your last murder trial.

Ya know, you offer to oil wrestle the judge for your freedom and everyone gets all weird...

I think Judge Judy would've taken you in any case.

She lacks the will of the warrior.  Now Judge Mathis would take you hands down.

I dunno... she's got those harpy claws of hers. She'd probably scream "Kaliman shak ti da!" and rip my still beating heart out.

She's a girl.  Girls have the will of a housemom.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: AmandaGal on May 14, 2008, 12:22:46 PM
ah, well i dont think ive EVER seen anyone banned here.  course most people dont bother to respond with vulgarities even when they disagree or are angry.  Its just pointless if i thought you were that big of a tit, i wouldnt have even posted in the first place.  what would be the point? 

Quote
Which brings us back to internet "tone of voice."  It's a very real thing. 

not really.  Yeah people can USUALLY tell if something is sarcastic(tm) or whatever but for the most part tone is assumed.  ]

Actually, I recently read an article about online communication and tone.  It concluded that tone inferred on the Internet was generally more a result of the reader's feelings and attitudes than the one who originated the post.  IE: if you think Conor is an ass, that posts would make him sound like more of an ass, who just wants to mock you.  Whereas if you think Conor is a nice guy, you can clearly see he wasn't being an ass, but he was expressing dry wit. 

So, online communication sucks and there is no real "tone."  Studies of body language and infliction say that non-verbal cues makes up a major part of our daily communication and are more important, in many cases, than the actual words (I forget the percentage of meaning and I can't find it and I won't make up a number).  It's something we learn before we learn how to talk.  It's something even animals can pick up on.  It's our most primal form of communication.

When we're online and don't have that, we infer our own emotions and inflections onto the words.  We even do that a little off-line and we HAVE body language and inflection.   How easy is it for someone to get on your nerves when you're already upset?  If they said the same thing when you were happy would you see them as the same condescending pig you see them as now?  Probably not.  If we can't infer meaning to conversation without pushing our own emotional states onto it in real life with those non-verbal cues, how the heck can you say you can do it online?
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 14, 2008, 12:56:14 PM
When we're online and don't have that, we infer our own emotions and inflections onto the words. 

I can't tell you how many people (mainly trolls) who have thought that a post of mine was angry in tone only because they WANTED me to be angry. Without a doubt, people put their own emotion into someone else's words, especially during an argument. I can remember an agrument on USENET back in the 80's that started when some simply said that his beard was too long and white for him to remember a certain fact, and someone else took it as a great personal insult. Before that, I used to think that smilies were stupid and swarmy, until someone pointed out that if the guy put : ) at the end of his comment, he'd have avoided a lot of trouble.  ;)
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: BathTub on May 14, 2008, 02:43:40 PM
ah, well i dont think ive EVER seen anyone banned here. 

Well there have been a couple, mostly spammers, There was that guy pretending to have MS or something? And of course googergeiger or whatever it was.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Isaac S. on May 14, 2008, 03:07:43 PM
ah, well i dont think ive EVER seen anyone banned here. 

Well there have been a couple, mostly spammers, There was that guy pretending to have MS or something? And of course googergeiger or whatever it was.

Ah, those were the days...

I'm glad this was resolved amicably.  Putting the video up did seem a little shady.  It wasn't theirs to distribute, even if it was free.  I just assumed they had gotten permission.  But that's history now.  Live and learn.  Everything worked out in the end, and two groups of decent people came to an understanding.  If only everything in life could be resolved so easily.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Kor on May 14, 2008, 09:45:29 PM
I'm dissapointed.  Both by the fact that a proper ipod video version was never posted, and by the whole thing in general.  I could go into a long rant about intellectual property followed by a tangent about how virtually nothing will ever lapse into public domain again but I won't.  I'm just sad and disapointed.  I was looking forward to more of these already synced.   :'(
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: torgosPizza on May 14, 2008, 09:47:20 PM
I'm dissapointed.  Both by the fact that a proper ipod video version was never posted, and by the whole thing in general.  I could go into a long rant about intellectual property followed by a tangent about how virtually nothing will ever lapse into public domain again but I won't.  I'm just sad and disapointed.  I was looking forward to more of these already synced.   :'(

iPod video version? You mean the mp4 version that was one of the videos that got removed?

Besides that, we never said there would never be more already synced. We've thought about these things already and we have some ideas for the near the future but it's going to take a bit of time. Try not to be disappointed for too long, arright?
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Isaac S. on May 15, 2008, 10:19:42 AM
Besides that, we never said there would never be more already synced. We've thought about these things already and we have some ideas for the near the future but it's going to take a bit of time. Try not to be disappointed for too long, arright?

Hmm...  Intriguing.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Cosmic Muse on May 15, 2008, 10:35:18 AM
Any chance of getting some of the New Voyages guys to Riff on a bad Star Trek film, oh, say, like Star Trek: Nemesis, the worst of all the Trek movies. It made even less at the box office than Star Trek V if you can believe it.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 15, 2008, 10:49:39 AM
Any chance of getting some of the New Voyages guys to Riff on a bad Star Trek film, oh, say, like Star Trek: Nemesis, the worst of all the Trek movies. It made even less at the box office than Star Trek V if you can believe it.

What might be funny is if they were playing their Star Trek characters while riffing Nemesis or Insurrection, having Kirk and Spock making fun of Pickard and the gang might be funny if done well.  But these guys might not want to piss off the die hard fans by mocking anything Trek....  But they could make some bucks that would help them make more of their shows for Kevin and Bill to riff on, wouldn't that be a great arrangement.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 15, 2008, 11:32:18 AM

What might be funny is if they were playing their Star Trek characters while riffing Nemesis or Insurrection, having Kirk and Spock making fun of Pickard and the gang might be funny if done well. 

I was thinking the same thing. Making it a NexGen movie would minimize the backdraft from their fans, since they're leaving the classic series alone. I don't know how how much money a Rifftrax would generate for them, though. It might not be enough to entice Cawley (Kirk) away from his job as an Elvis impersonator (seriously).

CORRECTION: I just realized that Cawley USED to be an Elvis impersonator, but no longer is. So I retract my barbed comment.   :-\
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: JeffR on May 15, 2008, 12:18:10 PM
Hey there all.  I'm new to the forums, but I've been downloading and talking up Rifftrax to people that I know for a while now.  Anyway, I gotta say that I was more surprised than anything to see that the Star Trek New Voyages riffs were going to have the video with them in the first place.  I kinda figured it was going to be like the Holiday Special of Star Wars.  Honestly, it doesn't surprise me that the video was taken down.

I hope this doesn't make you all think twice about doing future projects with the video synced in the future.  I know that I prefer them that way, but realize it's not always possible.  Please at least keep the shorts available in this format!  I always enjoy 'em.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: gabesword on May 15, 2008, 05:17:49 PM
For what it's worth, I don't mind syncing up the riff and the original.  I do love that I don't have to do that on the public domain shorts, but one of the greatest things about Rifftrax is that they can riff on whatever the hell they feel like and just distribute their own product without any whining lawyers getting involved.

I'm looking forward to both of the New Voyages riffs.  Thanks Rifftrax.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: RoninFox on May 15, 2008, 05:37:36 PM
The only thing that's going to be annoying now apparently is getting the whole video.  From the look of it if I don't want to use a torrent this is going to be tricky.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: gojikranz on May 15, 2008, 07:27:48 PM
any chance the price might drop now that there is no ondemand video.  2.99 seems a bit much for one hour and no use of rifftrax player.  1.99 not quite short not yet a movie?
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 15, 2008, 07:47:46 PM
You're nuts.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: torgosPizza on May 15, 2008, 07:49:23 PM
any chance the price might drop now that there is no ondemand video.  2.99 seems a bit much for one hour and no use of rifftrax player.  1.99 not quite short not yet a movie?

It's two riffers, and it's definitely not a short. Sorry, no price change for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: stirrell on May 16, 2008, 11:43:51 AM
The only thing that's going to be annoying now apparently is getting the whole video.  From the look of it if I don't want to use a torrent this is going to be tricky.

I did find it as a single download (Quicktime and Windows Media) using a mirror listed at their site.

http://www.phase2trek.com/home.html
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: FBX on May 16, 2008, 11:01:18 PM
There wasn't any "pressure" and there wasn't and "folding".  We talked things over with the people at Star Trek Phase 2 and came to an understanding.  You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

And it went a little something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/XyhhFzE5O5U&hl=en

Suddenly two references from the "Crestacian in Love" episode of Futurama has made more sense.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: vogellied on May 19, 2008, 11:47:24 AM
Downloaded in just the nick of time. Whew!

Yeah, no doubt.  I was hoping that Rifftrax would have to balls to stand up to this pressure but with each new poster complaining about the same thing over and over again I started to see the handwriting on the wall. :(

I'm of two minds about this.  On one hand it will be nice to see the end of all the whining about this when Rifftrax was doing nothing wrong in the first place.  On the other hand, I won't be purchasing any further Phase 2 rifftrax because if I'm going to have to go through the extreme pain in the ass of syncing up the videos it'll be so that I can watch them on the big screen in DVD form.  Since I have a Mac and there is no riffplayer available for it, and since Rifftrax folded to the pressure on this issue, I would have to sync by hand on my computer.




Actually they ask, quite nicely, on their site, that the video is not hosted anywhere else. I see no disclaimer about "unless you riff it". So, all the legal BS aside, theydedicated people who made this, who are paying out of pocket and offering their labor for free (though I would hope fellows riffers donate a buck or two at the least since hosting and downloads from our crew can cost theirs a pretty penny) have asked that it not be hosted ANYWHERE else. So cry about RIFFTRAX caving in, whine about how you can't work with this on your MAC (I use Linux, and the mov and mpg are not very difficult to work with but you know what they say about MAC folks....) but in the end it seems they were respecting what was always asked by the creators and is well spelled out in the FAQ on the New Voyages site (though since I only recently discovered these it is possible this was a changed based on this experience, but I highly doubt that).
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: DarthChimay on May 19, 2008, 11:56:57 AM
There wasn't any "pressure" and there wasn't and "folding".  We talked things over with the people at Star Trek Phase 2 and came to an understanding.  You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

And it went a little something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Suddenly two references from the "Crestacian in Love" episode of Futurama has made more sense.

The whole episode was a send-up of that episode of Star Trek.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: RoninFox on May 19, 2008, 06:06:54 PM
There wasn't any "pressure" and there wasn't and "folding".  We talked things over with the people at Star Trek Phase 2 and came to an understanding.  You know, the way people actually get things done in real life.

And it went a little something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Suddenly two references from the "Crestacian in Love" episode of Futurama has made more sense.

The whole episode was a send-up of that episode of Star Trek.

And one of Futurama's top achievements, which is high praise considering my very high opinion of the show.   ;D
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: CM916 on May 26, 2008, 09:56:20 PM
I demand that their Kirk make out with more random alien chicks and do many more things against regulation if I am to sit through another hour and six minutes with my riffs possibly out of synch.
Title: Re: Announcement regarding the New Voyages videos!
Post by: Mass Riffer Mafia on May 31, 2008, 12:56:16 PM
RiffTrax recently had an amicable phone call with James Cawley, aka "Kirk" from the New Voyages series. Mr. Cawley mentioned that he and the rest of New Voyages were flattered to have received "the RiffTrax treatment." We respect their intellectual property, and want to be able to constructively and creatively benefit both parties, without putting any of their hard work and professional relationships in jeopardy.

Therefore, we've decided to remove the VOD versions of the New Voyages tracks from the site.

We have discussed potential ways of working together with the New Voyages crew, and are looking ahead to a mutual relationship with them that benefits us all. Stay tuned.

Very good news.  Ask them if we can discuss the rifftrax on the STP2 forum now that video is gone from here..