RiffTrax Forum

RiffTrax Discussion => RiffTrax Presents => World Enough And Time => Topic started by: sloan47 on May 10, 2008, 12:10:58 AM

Title: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: sloan47 on May 10, 2008, 12:10:58 AM
I wanted to state first and foremost I am a HUGE fan of RiffTrax. I thought you guys did a great job riffing World Enough and Time. But you guys may be getting yourselves into a bit of legal trouble over offering the actual video. Paramount (I guess it's CBS now...) has tolerated the fan productions because it's considered Fair Use and the productions are not allowed to charge for their work. In order to actually deliver the audio and video together, you must also give it away for free. If you do not offer it for free, your derivative work violates the intellectual property CBS. (Even though CBS had nothing to do with the production... they just get to cash the paychecks.) It's a problem fan productions have faced for years now and luckily Paramount/CBS has allowed them to make their films. Obviously the mp3's are just fine, but the video could get you and potentially New Voyages (or Phase II) into some legal trouble.
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: ShadowDog on May 10, 2008, 12:50:15 AM
I am a HUGE fan of RiffTrax.

But apparently not a fan of these forums because this issue has already been discussed and resolved to the satisfaction of reasonable adults.  But welcome!  I hope you stick around and post lots!
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 10, 2008, 03:56:06 AM
I still think there is room for argument here amongst lawyers.  This is definitely the closest to copyright infringement Rifftrax has come.  This would be a very interesting case for setting precedent.  It's up to whatever corporate entity that owns the Star Trek copyright to make the next move.  I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet.
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 10, 2008, 04:36:53 AM
Quote
still think there is room for argument here amongst lawyers

If theres anything this world needs,  its more laywers. 
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 10, 2008, 04:58:52 AM
I think an arguement COULD be made that since RiffTrax are only charging their standard rate for this - the same price they would charge for the MP3 - that they are not charging for the video. They are merely charging for their own work, and providing the video as a courtesy to those who would find it difficult to locate, convert, and/or sync. But I'm not a lawyer, either. This is between the producers of ST:NV and Rifftrax, and so far, the only thing we've heard from from the ST:NV producers has been positive. We can't really count the forum bannings, since the admins there are probably not directly connected with the productions, and may be over-reacting.

But your point is taken, sloan. I think the majority of us here know the implications of this, and certainly the Rifftrax people are aware of these concerns by now. Thanks for being so polite about it.
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: gammer on May 10, 2008, 07:55:23 AM
Hey, you never know how far you can go if you don't push the envelope...right?
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: ShadowDog on May 10, 2008, 07:58:25 AM
That's true gammer.  But for me it's an open and shut case because of this:

I think an arguement COULD be made that since RiffTrax are only charging their standard rate for this - the same price they would charge for the MP3 - that they are not charging for the video. They are merely charging for their own work, and providing the video as a courtesy to those who would find it difficult to locate, convert, and/or sync.

DEFENSE RESTS YOUR HONOR!  That's absolutely rock solid in my mind.  Of course I'm not a lawyer either ...
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 10, 2008, 10:44:08 AM
That's true gammer.  But for me it's an open and shut case because of this:

I think an arguement COULD be made that since RiffTrax are only charging their standard rate for this - the same price they would charge for the MP3 - that they are not charging for the video. They are merely charging for their own work, and providing the video as a courtesy to those who would find it difficult to locate, convert, and/or sync.

DEFENSE RESTS YOUR HONOR!  That's absolutely rock solid in my mind.  Of course I'm not a lawyer either ...

I'm sure a "clever" lawyer could make the point that since no one is allowed to make a profit from selling the source material, that any profit derived from making fun of the source material would also be illegal.   Plenty of lawsuits have gone forward with even more flimsy cases, like the guy that sued a dry cleaner for millions over a pair of pants, that went on for way too long before it was dismissed.

I would think the lawyers at Legend would have already considered this.
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: Pak-Man on May 10, 2008, 02:05:57 PM
The video file even tells you where to find the official copy for free. :^)
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: Raven on May 10, 2008, 05:29:21 PM
If there were actually a site, any site, that charged for the unriffed video then there would be a problem but since these things have never made any money than I don't see the problem.  The creators don't even own a copyright to their own material.   It's different than the SWHS in at least that regards.
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 10, 2008, 05:34:12 PM
But the corporate overlords let them slide on using the Star Trek universe only because they aren't selling it.  If said corporate overlords hear tell of people making money, even tangentally, with their "brand" they might seek legal recourse.
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 10, 2008, 05:43:54 PM
I don't think anyone is exactly worried about the reaction of the ST:NV producers, who seem to be cool people, and will probably love the hell out of this. I think the main problem at the moment are the fans who are worried that Paramount will not see this as we do, and will kick everybody out of their sandbox, and not allow Crawley and Company continue with their series. I doubt it's gonna come to that.
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: Dim of the Yard on May 10, 2008, 05:45:33 PM
I don't think anyone is exactly worried about the reaction of the ST:NV producers, who seem to be cool people, and will probably love the hell out of this.

AAntilles is RIGHT! (http://forum.rifftrax.com/index.php/topic,9012.0.html)
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: Raven on May 10, 2008, 06:04:38 PM
Anybody else think it would be funny if Rifftrax brought about the end of the New Voyages entirely? 
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 10, 2008, 06:18:42 PM
Anybody else think it would be funny if Rifftrax brought about the end of the New Voyages entirely? 

Maybe that's why Mike decided to sit this one out. He didn't want to be responsible for destroying yet another world!  ;D
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: ShadowDog on May 10, 2008, 07:37:31 PM
LMFAO!
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: Pak-Man on May 10, 2008, 08:04:47 PM
Anybody else think it would be funny if Rifftrax brought about the end of the New Voyages entirely? 

Maybe that's why Mike decided to sit this one out. He didn't want to be responsible for destroying yet another world!  ;D
:clap:
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: DarthChimay on May 12, 2008, 03:45:32 PM
So, if this goes to trial, will it be on Judge Jones or Judge Judy? And when will the riff be available for the trial?
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: GLaDOS on May 12, 2008, 10:51:49 PM
So, if this goes to trial, will it be on Judge Jones or Judge Judy? And when will the riff be available for the trial?
It'll probably be available when i've finished my degrees in murderology and murderonomy.
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: ShadowDog on May 12, 2008, 11:41:57 PM
Dammit!  What is that reference from?  It sounds so familiar.  Is it Futurama?
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: GLaDOS on May 13, 2008, 02:10:52 AM
Dammit!  What is that reference from?  It sounds so familiar.  Is it Futurama?
You get a gold star.  :)
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: RoninFox on May 13, 2008, 06:19:41 AM
Dammit!  What is that reference from?  It sounds so familiar.  Is it Futurama?
You get a gold star.  :)
That's what I thought too...

My first clue came at 4:15...when the clock stopped.  Then again at 4:15...
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 13, 2008, 06:22:31 AM
heh futurama ALWAYS gets a laugh not to send this thread spiraling way off topic but i cant wait for the next futurama movie
Title: Re: Having the video on the site isn't quite legal...
Post by: torgosPizza on May 13, 2008, 04:27:29 PM
http://forum.rifftrax.com/index.php/topic,9080.0.html