RiffTrax Forum

RiffTrax Discussion => RiffTrax Presents => World Enough And Time => Topic started by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 08, 2008, 09:22:04 PM

Title: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 08, 2008, 09:22:04 PM
Since i have no interest in registering there can someone tell me how we are recieved over there?
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: torgosPizza on May 08, 2008, 10:20:58 PM
Well BathTub mentioned it and got banned immediately for piracy and illegal use of their name.

So, for a fanfic of a property that isn't theirs, they sure do seem to be a little touchy.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: torgosPizza on May 08, 2008, 10:27:32 PM
Nope. Unless I missed something.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 09, 2008, 12:38:23 AM
well that could be a funny lawsuit. 
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MrTorso on May 09, 2008, 01:36:34 AM
Well BathTub mentioned it and got banned immediately for piracy and illegal use of their name.

So, for a fanfic of a property that isn't theirs, they sure do seem to be a little touchy.

I was wondering about this. I have read that they are allowed to exist and have the blessing of Paramount or whoever owns the rights by not making a profit from the video. If you guys are selling the VODs I wonder if Paramount will have a problem with it. If the Phase II guys don't like it I wonder if they will make a stink with Paramount.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: timoth1 on May 09, 2008, 08:25:28 AM
I was curious how the Rifftrax would be received over at the New Voyages forum. I did a search for "rifftrax" and "Mike Nelson" and found nothing.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 09, 2008, 08:28:58 AM
Piracy and illegal use of their name?  Wow, that's rich.  What a bunch of morons!

I just saw the Bathtub post which had been edited to reflect his banning. :) I signed up for an account over there but they haven't let me in yet. I'll snoop and post.

I registered over there as well so I could see.  I'm going to put my favorite quote from the riff in my signature.  Let them ban me for THAT! :P
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 09, 2008, 08:58:00 AM
Given the first reaction at the mere mention of this over there, would it surprise anyone if they end up suing?  Not for money since they're not making any themselves, but to shut this down.  If that happens, I don't think Rifftrax would be able to sell this riff until the case is decided.  Therefore, just in case, you probably ought to go ahead and buy it and download it NOW.  It's funny as hell and I'd hate to see you miss out while this sat in court for a year.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MrTorso on May 09, 2008, 10:24:12 AM
I am sure they could still sell the actual Riff just not the video if Paramount get their panties in bunch.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: CM916 on May 09, 2008, 11:56:18 AM
I can't beleive they got one of the real actors to show up.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: RoninFox on May 09, 2008, 01:01:03 PM
I can't beleive they got one of the real actors to show up.

Not the only time it happened either, check out the info on the next one coming out.   ;)
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Tyrant on May 09, 2008, 01:09:01 PM
If there's one thing I've learned in all the years I've gone to conventions and what not, it's that Trekkies can be the most anal retentive fanboys/girls EVER. They will rip your face off for daring to poke even a little fun at the dumbest aspects of their beloved franchise. So this issue with the riff doesn't surprise me one bit.

 And I say this as a casual Star Trek fan, in case anyone thinks I'm a hater.

If they were making money with these films, then we'd have cause to worry. I don't think much of anything is going to come out of this other than several irate Trekkies possibly trolling our forum here dropping negative posts. I kind of hope that happens, actually. Nothing is funnier than watching a board war online.  ;D
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Compound on May 09, 2008, 01:15:42 PM
Also, check Star Trek: Of Gods and Men (http://www.startrekofgodsandmen.com/) which has a dozen Trek actors in it.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 09, 2008, 02:56:55 PM
I can't beleive they got one of the real actors to show up.

We have two different definitions of "real actor."  LMFAO!
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 09, 2008, 09:30:14 PM
I can't beleive they got one of the real actors to show up.

Yeah, try THREE. This one has George Takei, Grace Lee Whitney, and Majel Barrett as the computer voice. "To Serve All My Days" had Walter Koenig, and was written by D.C. Fontana, one of the show's original writers. "In Harm's Way" had William Windon, Barbara Luna, and Malachi Thorne who had all guest starred on the original series.

Paramount themselves have certainly benefited from the series, as they borrowed parts of their set to use in an episode of "Star Trek:Enterprise" (the Mirror Universe episode). And James Crawley and Jeffrey Quinn have both been given roles in the upcoming J.J. Abrams "Star Trek" movie - probably cameos - but it's still a nice tip of the hat to these guys who are essentially keeping the original series alive just for the sheer love of it. It's all good fun in a "Let's put on a show right here in the barn" kind of way.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: CM916 on May 09, 2008, 10:35:29 PM
I like Koenig for his work in Babylon 5. I kind of want to go to their forums and get lynched for that even before they declare me a pirate.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: RoninFox on May 09, 2008, 10:40:29 PM
I like Koenig for his work in Babylon 5. I kind of want to go to their forums and get lynched for that even before they declare me a pirate.

Koenig was infinitely better in B5 then he ever was in Trek.  That's what I think of every time I think of that classic Futurama line.

"You can't let a TV show be your whole life.  Look at Walter Koenig, after Star Trek...he became an actor!"
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: BathTub on May 09, 2008, 11:19:17 PM
If you read the wikipedia page there has been like 10 actors from the show involved and a lot of other support in various ways.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: BathTub on May 10, 2008, 04:30:52 AM
Well the severity of my banning has been increased, before I couldn't post or send private messages, now I can't even browse the forums, guess my ip has been banned or something.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 10, 2008, 04:34:56 AM
seriously FUNNIEST POTENTIAL LAWSUIT EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!  the funniest part is that if they sue you will probably be able to gett away with giving it for free since then you cant claim any profit on it lol.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MontyServo on May 10, 2008, 05:44:49 AM
the funniest part is that if they sue you will probably be able to gett away with giving it for free since then you cant claim any profit on it lol.

They would probably love it if Rifftrax were to host the unriffed movie files for anyone to download, as they do not offer any sort of direct download of the files citing bandwidth issues.  They only have a few links to some streaming versions, and a smattering of torrent links which has to be considered spotty at best.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MrTorso on May 10, 2008, 07:50:31 AM
Well the severity of my banning has been increased, before I couldn't post or send private messages, now I can't even browse the forums, guess my ip has been banned or something.

The won't even let me in. I registered two days ago and have never got an approval.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 10, 2008, 08:00:54 AM
It's going to piss me off if rifftrax gets scared next week and doesn't offer the already synced up video because of all this.  But I have faith in the balls of rifftrax.  From what I've seen so far they have a pretty good set of brass balls.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: plinstrot on May 10, 2008, 04:54:29 PM
On the Phase II forum, they state that "The people responsible are being contacted".  While this may sound funny, you have to understand that the people who create these episodes have put in thousands of dollars and hours to do this for the love of it.  The only reason they are allowed to make these is because they have a specific agreement that says money can not be made by their efforts.  If Paramount finds out about this, they could revoke their deal with Phase II and shut down the productions, jeopardizing what has taken New Voyages years to accomplish.

While Phase II makes no money from their productions, they still own the content they have put so much work into making.  Rifftrax including the World Enough and Time episode in the purchase is the same as including the copyrighted video of any other movie or episode they sell.  That legally can not do it.

I am in no way a part of the Phase II crew nor am I a Star Trek fan.  But I have been following their productions due to my interest in independent television.  If you don't like their episodes, don't watch them.  Feel free to riff on them all you want.  But it is not okay to put at risk all that these people have created by violating their copyright.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 10, 2008, 05:12:42 PM
It's going to piss me off if rifftrax gets scared next week and doesn't offer the already synced up video because of all this.  But I have faith in the balls of rifftrax.  From what I've seen so far they have a pretty good set of brass balls.

You had me at  "balls"
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 10, 2008, 05:16:12 PM
Hopefully, this can all be handled like adults. Perhaps some compromise can be reached where Riftrax can provide the unriffed version of the episodes in Divx format, along with an MP3 of the audio from the episode with the Rifftrax mixed into it, and instructions on how we can Mux the audio into the video file ourselves. Might not be the ideal solution, but it might work.

In any event, I hope that Star Trek:Phase II fans that come here to post are treated with more respect than Rifftrax fans have received on the ST:P2 boards.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Raven on May 10, 2008, 05:23:08 PM
Hopefully, this can all be handled like adults. Perhaps some compromise can be reached where Riftrax can provide the unriffed version of the episodes in Divx format, along with an MP3 of the audio from the episode with the Rifftrax mixed into it, and instructions on how we can Mux the audio into the video file ourselves. Might not be the ideal solution, but it might work.

In any event, I hope that Star Trek:Phase II fans that come here to post are treated with more respect than Rifftrax fans have received on the ST:P2 boards.

Why bother with all that.  Fuck em if they can't take a joke.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: esoobaC .T bocaJ on May 10, 2008, 05:24:19 PM
Yeah!
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 10, 2008, 05:27:14 PM
How could you possibly love Star Trek that much that you lose your sense of humor?
I like Star Trek.  I read the frackin' books even.  But these guys are nuts.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 10, 2008, 05:55:51 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, I don't think the problem ST:NV fans are having is with the Riffs themselves. They're just worried that this will upset Paramount, and make them change their mind about letting Crawley and Company continue making these episodes.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 10, 2008, 07:43:48 PM
In any event, I hope that Star Trek:Phase II fans that come here to post are treated with more respect than Rifftrax fans have received on the ST:P2 boards.

Word.  Their behavior so far has been disgraceful.

I also agree with Raven and BetterTommorrow.  We keep saying and saying no extra money is being charged for the synced up video.  PERIOD.  You pay the same amount of money if you download the mp3 by itself or if you download the synced video. PERIOD.  So they're not charging for the video!  PERIOD.  How fucking hard is this to understand?  If someone doesn't understand that, they don't WANT to understand it because they have some other agenda. (ie, they're butthurt over being riffed)
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 10, 2008, 08:30:17 PM
you cant make a LOGICAL argument in a legal setting.  Legal trumps logic everytime. 
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 10, 2008, 10:35:50 PM
Even if this was a court of law rather than a message board, lawyers use logic to sway jurors every day.  But my point is that the alarmests posting here keep wanting to pretend rifftrax is charging for the video when any reasonable adult can clearly see this is not the case.

Let me put this another way:  If you take any ten reasonable adults of average intelligence and offer them a candy bar all by itself for $1 and then offer them the same sized and type of candy bar encased in a wrapper for $1 and then asked them "Do you think we're charging you for this wrapper?" what would be their answer?

Normal people would respond "Apparently nothing.  Since the price of both is the same, the wrapper must be free."

A lot of Phase 2 fans would apparently respond "I don't know what you're charging for that wrapper, but you MUST be charging something!  What? Oh, I KNOW it's the same price, but I just can't wrap my mind around this!  YOU MUST BE CHARGING SOMETHING FOR THAT WRAPPER!"
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 10, 2008, 11:28:18 PM
I think it needs to be repeated, it's Paramount/CBS that are the concern.  Not the fanboys.

By adding the video Rifftrax is selling a product that has Star Trek images and characters in it.  If the copyright holder (Paramount/CBS) of those images objects it could be a problem.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 11, 2008, 12:34:33 AM
No, they aren't selling the video.  Since the video is the same price as audio by itself, it's clear that they're offering the video for free as a courtesy.  Say you buy a ticket to a baseball game.  The employees at the game hand out a Tee Shirt to everyone who walks through the turnstile.  You paid for the ticket to get in so is the Tee Shirt free or not?  In my view the Tee Shirt is free, even though money changed hands for the ticket.

Also, not to get sidetracked here but may I ask why the "Gromit" part of your name is in parenthesis?  I've been posting here long enough now that I'm starting to attach personalities to member names and this one makes your name stand out so now I'm curious.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 11, 2008, 01:18:33 AM
No, they aren't selling the video.  Since the video is the same price as audio by itself, it's clear that they're offering the video for free as a courtesy.  Say you buy a ticket to a baseball game.  The employees at the game hand out a Tee Shirt to everyone who walks through the turnstile.  You paid for the ticket to get in so is the Tee Shirt free or not?  In my view the Tee Shirt is free, even though money changed hands for the ticket.

If the Tee Shirt was part of a promotion and was used to get people to come to the game it's part of the cost of the baseball team doing business.  And if that Tee had a logo that they used without permission the team would be in trouble. 

This is probably in a grey area between "fair use", "parody" and "copyright infringement"  that it probably wouldn't be worth it for Paramount/CBS to complain about it.

Quote
Also, not to get sidetracked here but may I ask why the "Gromit" part of your name is in parenthesis?  I've been posting here long enough now that I'm starting to attach personalities to member names and this one makes your name stand out so now I'm curious.

http://blog.rifftrax.com/2007/12/14/nicknames-get-yer-nicknames-here/

Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 11, 2008, 01:25:38 AM
Quote
Even if this was a court of law rather than a message board, lawyers use logic to sway jurors every day

they also use emotion misdirection, circumstantial evidence and all sorts of other things dont nessicarily have anything to do with logic.  a logical explanation is only usefull in the case that the entire jury is totally rational  (highly unlikely).  why do you think "if the glove doesnt fit you must aquit" was so damned powerful. 
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Rude on May 11, 2008, 01:42:41 AM
Quote from: sarcasm_made_Easy
a logical explanation is only usefull in the case that the entire jury is totally rational  (highly unlikely).

This has nothing to do with anything, but: After sitting through a trial myself, i've found that often a lawyer will use so many facts and rational ideas, that he tries to obscure the forrest for the trees.

Now... back to your regularly scheduled thread.

-Rude
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on May 11, 2008, 01:47:39 AM
thats true as well.  the point is that they dont care if you know WHY your agreeing with the laywer as long as they vote their way. 
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Sheik Yerbouti on May 11, 2008, 03:04:20 AM
As far as I can see, the worst case scenario is that Rifftrax has to pull the mixed audio/video files from the site and just offer the mp3 riff.  You know, like they've been doing with just about everything for almost two years.  Not a big deal.  I would have no problem making the extra effort to download the video from that Trek site, the first one was hilarious.  And that's another thing.  The New Voyages/Phase II/whatever people should be happy about this exposure!  A whole new group of people is getting to see their creations and some of those people might actually enjoy the productions for their own merits.  Not me, but I'm sure some of you out there will.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Bob on May 11, 2008, 03:11:26 AM
As far as I can see, the worst case scenario is that Rifftrax has to pull the mixed audio/video files from the site and just offer the mp3 riff. 

No, THIS is the worst case scenario.

(http://static.flickr.com/7/10280129_4cb33ad7f8.jpg)
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MontyServo on May 11, 2008, 06:22:50 AM
The way I see it, if the situation were reversed, most folks here would be reacting the same as the folks over there.

Let's say there is a Star Trek fan site out there that decided to start selling reauthored DVD's of the Star Trek Rifftrax.  They don't want to actually make any money off of this, they are just doing it as a service to Trek fans that may find the syncing of Rifftrax too problematic.  Let's say they charge you for a new copy of the original DVD ($9.99), plus the cost of the Rifftrax ($3.99, which they would purchase from Rifftrax every time there was a new order), plus a small shipping fee (let's say $2.00).

So for $15.98 they would buy you a copy of Star Trek 6 on DVD, purchase a copy of the Rifftrax of Star Trek 6 for you, reauthor both onto a DVD for you, and then send you the original DVD, a copy of the Rifftrax MP3, and the reauthored DVD.  They wouldn't be making any money off of this service, since the costs paid are used to purchase the DVD and Rifftrax.

Now with all that said, what do you think the reaction of Rifftrax would be to this "service".

How about this?  What if there was a free service that would make DVD copies of Youtube clips for you?  What if you only had to pay the cost of a blank DVD and the shipping?  You would not be paying for the clips, just the service.  And what if that service was willing to put copies of all the Rifftrax Youtube clips onto a DVD and send it to you for that small fee that just covers material costs and shipping?

What do you think the reaction of Rifftrax to that would be?

For that matter what do you think the reaction of people on this board about either thing would be?

I'm not saying that they (the Star Trek Phase II people) are right and we are wrong, or vice versa.  I'm just saying that we should try to see things from their point of view.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: mrbasehart on May 11, 2008, 06:49:44 AM
The way I see it, if the situation were reversed, most folks here would be reacting the same as the folks over there.

Let's say there is a Star Trek fan site out there that decided to start selling reauthored DVD's of the Star Trek Rifftrax.  They don't want to actually make any money off of this, they are just doing it as a service to Trek fans that may find the syncing of Rifftrax too problematic.  Let's say they charge you for a new copy of the original DVD ($9.99), plus the cost of the Rifftrax ($3.99, which they would purchase from Rifftrax every time there was a new order), plus a small shipping fee (let's say $2.00).

So for $15.98 they would buy you a copy of Star Trek 6 on DVD, purchase a copy of the Rifftrax of Star Trek 6 for you, reauthor both onto a DVD for you, and then send you the original DVD, a copy of the Rifftrax MP3, and the reauthored DVD.  They wouldn't be making any money off of this service, since the costs paid are used to purchase the DVD and Rifftrax.

I don't know it that's feasible - and I know your point wasn't to make it sound as such - but it does sound like an excellent idea all the same.  They should partner it up with the other NV episode they're riffing next week, too!
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 11, 2008, 07:33:25 AM
I would have enjoyed your scenario more Monty if PSL hadn't just caused me to tear my eyes out.

Anyway, that's an interesting turning of the tables.  Do you have a parallel for Rifftrax also offering the MP3 separate from the video?
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 11, 2008, 09:48:47 AM
I would have enjoyed your scenario more Monty if PSL hadn't just caused me to tear my eyes out.

Anyway, that's an interesting turning of the tables.  Do you have a parallel for Rifftrax also offering the MP3 separate from the video?

I dont know if you need a parallel... Just because they offer the audio seperately doesn't preclude the fact that they are offering a version with the video as well. Anyways, I would have to imagine that Rifftrax / Legend / whoever has legal people on their payroll... Seeing that they have gone this far, they must have got the legal green light on their side. That said, I don't see how you can take copyrighted work, modify the audio and then offer it for sale on your own... but of course, I am no lawyer.

This is the first I've heard of these Phase 2 guys or whatever they call themselves... but if I understand this correctly, and that they are just fans doing this stuff for pure enjoyment and for no monetary gain... I think it's an asshole move to rip them via Rifftrax and walk away with a tidy profit. Fucking bush league man.... At least the riff subjects up til now have been aimed at purely commercial interests. (Maybe the makers behind this stuff have a sense of humor and dont mind... or maybe they do... I don't claim to be 100% in-the-know... just on the surface... this doesn't sit right with me)
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 11, 2008, 10:17:16 AM
So for $15.98 they would buy you a copy of Star Trek 6 on DVD, purchase a copy of the Rifftrax of Star Trek 6 for you, reauthor both onto a DVD for you, and then send you the original DVD, a copy of the Rifftrax MP3, and the reauthored DVD.  They wouldn't be making any money off of this service, since the costs paid are used to purchase the DVD and Rifftrax.

That's an interesting idea, I wonder if that would be legal?  Since the person making the copy isn't doing it for their own personal use I'm not sure it would fly with the studios.  I think you can only transfer ownership of the original purchased copy of the DVD.  I know a lot of software licences allow you to transfer as long as you hand over all copies, but the entertainment industry is more strict.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: CM916 on May 11, 2008, 10:38:29 AM
The guy who "plays" Captain Kirk is apparently the same guy who bankrolls the whole thing. That alone makes this very riff-worthy.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MrTorso on May 11, 2008, 10:40:06 AM
Considering that breaking the copyright protection on most dvds is a violation of the DMCA then it wouldn't fly.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 11, 2008, 11:49:00 AM
So for $15.98 they would buy you a copy of Star Trek 6 on DVD, purchase a copy of the Rifftrax of Star Trek 6 for you, reauthor both onto a DVD for you, and then send you the original DVD, a copy of the Rifftrax MP3, and the reauthored DVD.  They wouldn't be making any money off of this service, since the costs paid are used to purchase the DVD and Rifftrax.

There may actually be a legal precedence for this. Years ago, there was a video rental store that was offering censored versions of video tapes for rent. IIRC, they started with "Titanic" by editing out the topless scene. In order to rent the censored copy, though, you also had to take a copy of the original video tape. They were essentially renting you the original tape, and throwing in the censored copy free of charge. This may not be a precedent in Rifftrax's favor, though, as it seems to me, Paramount sued the video store, but I don't remember the outcome of the case.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 11, 2008, 11:58:36 AM
That christian dvd censor service that did the same thing was sued and stopped doing it, so I doubt it.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 11, 2008, 12:57:40 PM
I see you're pretending not to notice that the video with riff and the riff by itself are the exact same price.  LMFAO!

This is the first I've heard of these Phase 2 guys or whatever they call themselves... but if I understand this correctly, and that they are just fans doing this stuff for pure enjoyment and for no monetary gain... I think it's an asshole move to rip them via Rifftrax and walk away with a tidy profit. Fucking bush league man.... At least the riff subjects up til now have been aimed at purely commercial interests. (Maybe the makers behind this stuff have a sense of humor and dont mind... or maybe they do... I don't claim to be 100% in-the-know... just on the surface... this doesn't sit right with me)

Man, I don't see it that way at all.  And for the record, everything we've heard so far from the actors and producers is they loved the riff and consider it an honor despite the fact that some money is being made on it.  So personally, I just don't see it your way at all.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: RoninFox on May 11, 2008, 01:11:59 PM
So for $15.98 they would buy you a copy of Star Trek 6 on DVD, purchase a copy of the Rifftrax of Star Trek 6 for you, reauthor both onto a DVD for you, and then send you the original DVD, a copy of the Rifftrax MP3, and the reauthored DVD.  They wouldn't be making any money off of this service, since the costs paid are used to purchase the DVD and Rifftrax.

That's an interesting idea, I wonder if that would be legal?  Since the person making the copy isn't doing it for their own personal use I'm not sure it would fly with the studios.  I think you can only transfer ownership of the original purchased copy of the DVD.  I know a lot of software licences allow you to transfer as long as you hand over all copies, but the entertainment industry is more strict.

I know there've been a couple people here and there who've mentioned starting up this kind of service, and the reaction from Rifftrax was apparently "please don't"
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MontyServo on May 11, 2008, 01:17:26 PM
I see you're pretending not to notice that the video with riff and the riff by itself are the exact same price.  LMFAO!

They are not the exact same price, one price includes several versions of the riff.  There is no option to purchase the riff MP3 by itself.  When you purchase the riff you get the video (whether you download it or not).  You can not get the video from Rifftrax without purchasing the riff.

The only way they could honestly say that they are not charging for the video in the mixed version would be to also offer a free download of the unriffed video to anyone who wanted just that.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: RoninFox on May 11, 2008, 01:19:23 PM
I see you're pretending not to notice that the video with riff and the riff by itself are the exact same price.  LMFAO!

They are not the exact same price, one price includes several versions of the riff.  There is no option to purchase the riff MP3 by itself.  When you purchase the riff you get the video (whether you download it or not).  You can not get the video from Rifftrax without purchasing the riff.

The only way they could honestly say that they are not charging for the video in the mixed version would be to also offer a free download of the unriffed video to anyone who wanted just that.

Which they do, in the form of a link to the New Voyages website on the product page with the explanation that the unriffed video is there free.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 11, 2008, 01:20:51 PM
I see you're pretending not to notice that the video with riff and the riff by itself are the exact same price.  LMFAO!

This is the first I've heard of these Phase 2 guys or whatever they call themselves... but if I understand this correctly, and that they are just fans doing this stuff for pure enjoyment and for no monetary gain... I think it's an asshole move to rip them via Rifftrax and walk away with a tidy profit. Fucking bush league man.... At least the riff subjects up til now have been aimed at purely commercial interests. (Maybe the makers behind this stuff have a sense of humor and dont mind... or maybe they do... I don't claim to be 100% in-the-know... just on the surface... this doesn't sit right with me)

Man, I don't see it that way at all.  And for the record, everything we've heard so far from the actors and producers is they loved the riff and consider it an honor despite the fact that some money is being made on it.  So personally, I just don't see it your way at all.

Hey, that's fine... It was just my initial gut reaction... that's all. I'll admit that I'm not always the best when it comes to using tact in my responses... But still... with the entire movie world as their oyster... I think it's sort of a bummer that they go after an amatuer project. I understand the idea of selling an "all in one / no synching required" product is probably a priority of theirs... but man... riffing fan projects? It just strikes me as the cool kids at prom making fun of the wheelchair kid because he's a shitty dancer....
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Conor on May 11, 2008, 01:32:14 PM
Considering that breaking the copyright protection on most dvds is a violation of the DMCA then it wouldn't fly.

Yeah, whoever did that would probably have an issue, but if they were buying the Riff each time, I don't think it would be from us.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MontyServo on May 11, 2008, 01:40:08 PM
My main point was that I can see why the Trek guys might be upset.  They probably walk a very thin line with Paramount as it is.  And to see something like this pop up that could jeopardize all their hard work, I don't blame them for reacting negatively.  Besides they have probably had the whole "Watch out for people selling our free movies!" mantra drilled into their brains for years.  They reacted exactly the way they were trained to do.

I'll shut up now.   ;)


 
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 11, 2008, 04:24:08 PM
Hey, that's fine... It was just my initial gut reaction... that's all. I'll admit that I'm not always the best when it comes to using tact in my responses... But still... with the entire movie world as their oyster... I think it's sort of a bummer that they go after an amatuer project. I understand the idea of selling an "all in one / no synching required" product is probably a priority of theirs... but man... riffing fan projects? It just strikes me as the cool kids at prom making fun of the wheelchair kid because he's a shitty dancer....

See, for me personally, Mike and the Bots have never come from that mean point of view.  They may be harsh with people for all sorts of reasons, but they're just as harsh with themselves.  Mike and Kevin both savage themselves in their non fiction books, but it's no more mean spirited than they are with anyone else.  For me, intent means everything and I just don't believe any of the Big Three have a mean bone in their bodies.  Plenty of funny bones, but no mean bones.  So I see it as an unparalleled honor for this fan film to be riffed, not an insult or something hurtful.

My first short film was one of the WORST pieces of crap ever made.  Dude, it was set on a space station but we filmed it in an office so you could see the sunny blue sky outside the windows! It was awful and I'd never let ANYone ever watch it these days ... with one exception.  I'd love for Mike and Bots to riff it.  Shit, I'd let them riff it free and they could charge whatever they wanted for it.  I think any MST3K and/or Rifftrax fan would feel the same way.  Now, if they were a bunch of mean ass clowns, then no.  That'd be different.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: RoninFox on May 11, 2008, 04:33:33 PM
I'd feel that way too, if I'd ever made anything I thought would be worth riffing to them.  A few friends in high school made a "movie" with an old camcorder that I was in (I was a victim for some kind of evil vampire-like cult) and I think if they could stomach the sheer stupidity of the thing I would certainly be honored to hear it riffed.  Just hearing what they'd say about the fact that my dead body gets dragged out of the same room about three times in three scenes in a row without any explanation of how it keeps getting back would be interesting, as well as the complete lack of explanation on how the entire cult is wiped out at the end leaving only the "special kid" who sits in his chair rocking back and forth, drooling and yelling "Sku-dawwwwwwwwg."

I didn't understand it when I was in it, I don't understand it now.  All I know is I got to spend most of the time lying on the floor while girls danced around me.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Raven on May 11, 2008, 05:22:06 PM
  All I know is I got to spend most of the time lying on the floor while girls danced around me.


If only there were a way to get paid to do this.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 11, 2008, 05:24:10 PM
All I know is I got to spend most of the time lying on the floor while girls danced around me.

To steal a riff from "Manos", somehow, I have a feeling that was the only reason your movie was made.  ;)
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: RoninFox on May 11, 2008, 05:26:08 PM
All I know is I got to spend most of the time lying on the floor while girls danced around me.

To steal a riff from "Manos", somehow, I have a feeling that was the only reason your movie was made.  ;)

And yet it wasn't my idea at all.  Just a lucky day I guess.   ;D
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: nummy muffin on May 11, 2008, 07:49:35 PM
My first short film was one of the WORST pieces of crap ever made.  Dude, it was set on a space station but we filmed it in an office so you could see the sunny blue sky outside the windows! It was awful and I'd never let ANYone ever watch it these days ... with one exception.  I'd love for Mike and Bots to riff it.

All I know is I got to spend most of the time lying on the floor while girls danced around me.

Please post the vids.  Pretty, pretty please?  Insanely gorgeous please?
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 11, 2008, 07:58:32 PM
I will if he will.  His video sounds awesome!  LOL
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 12, 2008, 08:08:08 AM
Hey, that's fine... It was just my initial gut reaction... that's all. I'll admit that I'm not always the best when it comes to using tact in my responses... But still... with the entire movie world as their oyster... I think it's sort of a bummer that they go after an amatuer project. I understand the idea of selling an "all in one / no synching required" product is probably a priority of theirs... but man... riffing fan projects? It just strikes me as the cool kids at prom making fun of the wheelchair kid because he's a shitty dancer....

See, for me personally, Mike and the Bots have never come from that mean point of view.  They may be harsh with people for all sorts of reasons, but they're just as harsh with themselves.  Mike and Kevin both savage themselves in their non fiction books, but it's no more mean spirited than they are with anyone else.  For me, intent means everything and I just don't believe any of the Big Three have a mean bone in their bodies.  Plenty of funny bones, but no mean bones.  So I see it as an unparalleled honor for this fan film to be riffed, not an insult or something hurtful.

My first short film was one of the WORST pieces of crap ever made.  Dude, it was set on a space station but we filmed it in an office so you could see the sunny blue sky outside the windows! It was awful and I'd never let ANYone ever watch it these days ... with one exception.  I'd love for Mike and Bots to riff it.  Shit, I'd let them riff it free and they could charge whatever they wanted for it.  I think any MST3K and/or Rifftrax fan would feel the same way.  Now, if they were a bunch of mean ass clowns, then no.  That'd be different.

Well, I am not going to get into their motivations.. or whether the fact that they have a self-depricating sense of humor somehow cancels out their snide comments on some karmic scale...  I don't think Mike and friends are mean-spirited ogres by any means... but I think a good amount of the fans, myself included, gain at least a little entertainment when they turn the knife a little bit on overblown or just embarassingly bad movies and the people responsible for them. It comes with the territory. There are indeed mean bones in their bodies and ours.... otherwise none of us would find their product as consistently funny as we do. We all take away some satisfaction in laughing at the shortcomings of others... That is one of the cornerstones of why riffing works. It's hardly the only thing... but it's an undeniable factor as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes they have gone too far with the venom (see Ep1 riff) but most of the time, it's all in good fun and I am hardly trying to say that they are "mean ass clowns".

All of that said, I just don't think it's in good taste making money by basically exploiting a volunteer based project. Whether the makers of this particular subject are fans of riffing or whether or not they are honored by getting riffed isn't really the point for me. I just think this is a slippery slope... riffing on amateur efforts so you can package an 'all-in-one" product on the cheap. (Granted, I don't know if that is the case... maybe these phase2 guys are getting a cut of the proceeds... I don't claim to be "in the know" with the business dealings and whatnot... just like I said earlier... my general gut reactions... take them as you will)
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 12, 2008, 09:02:29 AM
Well yea.. I was trying to speak in more general terms... not so much in regards to the specifics of this work. I'm sure it's hilarious... and I would have to imagine that they wouldn't savage the thing. Like I said, I don't think that Mike and friends are ogres. Just the whole idea of riffing on volunteer work for a profit doesn't sit right with me, regardless if their script had nothing but the best of intentions. It's not about criticizing or praising this particular effort.

Let's not mince words... Rifftrax, MST3K, CT, ICWXP, RiffRaff, etc all exploit / have exploited movies for money. If the movies don't exist, the riffs don't exist. Going after other professionals is one thing. Most of the time, unless you are looking at ancient product that has fallen into public domain, the creative and/or financial stakeholders get a cut. Either movie rights are paid for or sales/rentals of DVDs rise accordingly. (I doubt many of us already owned Eragon or Glitter or Dr.Moreau). None of that is the case here... at least as I would understand things... and that's what doesn't sit right. It's not about the jokes themsevles.

I have no problem being in the minority on my feelings on this... I am not trying to throw anybody under the bus or stand on some high horse. Sometimes I am not going to agree with something they do... and this is the place to discuss such things. I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity to lay out my opinions. They aren't always going to be sunshine and bunnies and pats on the butt for a job well done.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 12, 2008, 12:45:14 PM
I get what you're saying Nun and I think it's a valid take.  It's not my take by any means but I can understand someone having this take.

Oh, and since I haven't stated it yet today: The people running the Phase 2 message board are douches.  Ahhhhhh, I feel better now. :P
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: gabesword on May 12, 2008, 01:47:42 PM
I'm suprised that Rifftrax is offering a synced up version of this.  I have no problem with them riffing on it, and I'm looking forward to hearing it.  It seems to me though, that they don't have any right to distribute the video.

Upon checking the Phase II website they say that the show will be distributed from their official streaming video sites or their official video mirror sites.  They also ask that fans not redistribute their work elsewhere on the internet.

CBS/Paramount owns the copyrights on things like the Star Trek logo and the characters used in the production.  They have given permission for the Star Trek Phase II folks to use the CBS/Paramount intellectual property.  I doubt they have given Legend Films the same permissions, though I could definitely be wrong there.

Rifftrax has asked that users don't redistribute their work without permission.  I personally don't think that they should redistribute the Phase II stuff without permission.  Just do the normal .mp3 thing like they did with the Star Wars Holiday Special.


With all of that said, I really am looking forward to checking out the riffs on these Phase II episodes.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 12, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
I wasn't surprised gabesword because it was a courtesy syncing that rifftrax did as a favor to its fans.  Rifftrax does this all the time, going the extra mile to make things as convenient as possible for us.  Since I have a mac the rifftraxplayer thing doesn't work for me so every single movie I watch I have to go through the huge pain in the ass of syncing up the video.  It's surprising how much of a difference even a half second can make on whether or not something is funny and sometimes it can take as much as the first ten minutes of the movie to get it just right unless I want to keep going back to the beginning.  Sometimes its enough of a pain in the ass that I'm irritated for the next 10-20 minutes and don't enjoy the trax as much as I should.

So I actually like the shorts better because they come already synced up.  If the shorts didn't come already synced I wouldn't buy them because it could take the entire 5 minute short to sync the fucking thing up and it's not worth it.

These Phase Two films are longer, so I'd probably still buy them if they weren't synced, but boy was I glad to see they were already synced.  Saved me a LOT of trouble and irritation.  So thank you Rifftrax.  Thanks for syncing it for me and thanks for not bowing to the pressure of the unstoppable constant wave of bitching we've been enduring for the past week since it came out.

PS.  Yeah, yeah, I know I should learn how to the do the DVD reauthor thing and if it looks like we're never getting a macrifftraxplayer, I probably will eventually.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: esoobaC .T bocaJ on May 12, 2008, 05:49:20 PM
I'm suprised that Rifftrax is offering a synced up version of this.  I have no problem with them riffing on it, and I'm looking forward to hearing it.  It seems to me though, that they don't have any right to distribute the video.

Upon checking the Phase II website they say that the show will be distributed from their official streaming video sites or their official video mirror sites.  They also ask that fans not redistribute their work elsewhere on the internet.

CBS/Paramount owns the copyrights on things like the Star Trek logo and the characters used in the production.  They have given permission for the Star Trek Phase II folks to use the CBS/Paramount intellectual property.  I doubt they have given Legend Films the same permissions, though I could definitely be wrong there.

Rifftrax has asked that users don't redistribute their work without permission.  I personally don't think that they should redistribute the Phase II stuff without permission.  Just do the normal .mp3 thing like they did with the Star Wars Holiday Special.


With all of that said, I really am looking forward to checking out the riffs on these Phase II episodes.

Good Idea, let's all demand a pre-synched version of the Star Wars Holiday Special
 ;D
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 13, 2008, 10:11:23 PM
I see what you're getting at now.  Yeah, I suppose I agree with you in theory; but what if this draws greater attention to the works themselves? Isn't the point of fan films a) to get to make them (they're supposed to be fun) and b) for people to see them?

Well, I think that's the same flawed logic that people use to justify pirating Rifftrax.

"Oh... but I am helping Rifftrax by seeding this torrent of [insert product name here]".

Sure, they are probably right... despite the powers that be insistance otherwise, it's hard to argue with the power of torrent to get the word out...  But still, it's probably not the desired method.... having other forces control the dominant distribution methods of your product. .
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: torgosPizza on May 13, 2008, 10:17:12 PM
it's hard to argue with the power of torrent to get the word out...

Actually it's really easy - it's basically the opposite. I can see instances of bulletin boards that people have downloaded our tracks from, and it numbers in the thousands (of grabs). The people who are going there aren't having some epiphany of our existence (although in rare instances, this is the case) - it's more along the lines of  "Thank you! Please release [RiffTrax title] next!" and "Do more!"
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 13, 2008, 10:24:51 PM
it's hard to argue with the power of torrent to get the word out...

Actually it's really easy - it's basically the opposite. I can see instances of bulletin boards that people have downloaded our tracks from, and it numbers in the thousands (of grabs). The people who are going there aren't having some epiphany of our existence (although in rare instances, this is the case) - it's more along the lines of  "Thank you! Please release [RiffTrax title] next!" and "Do more!"

Well, thanks for confirming the existance of pirates.

Do you really think you are helping the Phase2 guys in their efforts? Or is it more along the lines of "Thank You! Please riff [phase2 title] next!" and "do more!"

You want to complain about losing money when the Phase2 guys were never concerned about money in the first place. Do you fail to see my point?
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Edward J Grug III on May 13, 2008, 11:04:33 PM
it's hard to argue with the power of torrent to get the word out...

Actually it's really easy - it's basically the opposite. I can see instances of bulletin boards that people have downloaded our tracks from, and it numbers in the thousands (of grabs). The people who are going there aren't having some epiphany of our existence (although in rare instances, this is the case) - it's more along the lines of  "Thank you! Please release [RiffTrax title] next!" and "Do more!"

Well, thanks for confirming the existance of pirates.

Do you really think you are helping the Phase2 guys in their efforts? Or is it more along the lines of "Thank You! Please riff [phase2 title] next!" and "do more!"

You want to complain about losing money when the Phase2 guys were never concerned about money in the first place. Do you fail to see my point?

Wait... Your original post specifically said:

""Oh... but I am helping Rifftrax by seeding this torrent of [insert product name here]".

Sure, they are probably right... despite the powers that be insistance otherwise, it's hard to argue with the power of torrent to get the word out... "

And Torgos defended that point.

Then you start talking to him like he's a retard?

WTF man?
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 13, 2008, 11:28:24 PM
As much as I'm irritated right now that Rifftrax backed down on this issue, internet pirates are total dirtbags and will burn in hell.  No slant or spin is ever going to convince me that torrent sites and other forms of piracy do anything but harm the original creative company.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Pak-Man on May 13, 2008, 11:33:11 PM
I'm not sure if it was a matter of backing down at all. If I'm interpreting events right, Rifftrax thought they could without incident, they were told they couldn't, they stopped. I kind of doubt Rifftrax ever gave the middle finger to them and said, "We'll do what we want!" until some threat was made that made them stop.

Question, though: Now that Rifftrax doesn't provide the video, can you talk about Rifftrax at their forum?
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Edward J Grug III on May 13, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
As much as I'm irritated right now that Rifftrax backed down on this issue...

You live in a bizarre fantasy world!
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 14, 2008, 12:24:36 AM
This can't be a fantasy world, there's not enough PIE!
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: nummy muffin on May 14, 2008, 12:37:23 AM
Or cake.  The cake was a lie.

But Rifftrax did the right thing.  Respectable, in the face of so much nerdy assault.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: ShadowDog on May 14, 2008, 12:46:05 AM
Much as I hate to admit being wrong, (and I do hate it, believe me) having read most recent torgosPizza's reply in the other thread (which I only read after the comment I made above) I think they did the right thing.  I was just pissed off that the next video wasn't going to be synced up and I went too far venting my frustration.  I'm still not buying the next Phase 2 video, but that's no reason to question Rifftrax's manhood.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 14, 2008, 05:01:41 AM
Now you're a wuss.  Learn how to reauthor so we don't have to listen to you bitch and moan.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 14, 2008, 05:45:03 AM
Actually, I think the whole reason the Phase II guys asked Rifftrax not to distribute the file has less to do with protecting their episodes than it has to with providing accurate numbers to Paramount about how many copies are being downloaded. At one time, they didn't really care if episodes were posted to torrent sites. But just before "World Enough And Time" was released, Paramount asked Cawley to meet with them, and to set up a screening of the episode for them. The New Voyages producers were worried that maybe it was time for the sword to drop, and they were gonna be asked to stop. Fortunately, Paramount allowed them to continue, but asked them to supply details on how often the show was being viewed. You know those suits... they just LOVE ratings.

For the first few months, the only way to watch the episode was through streaming. Unfortunately, there were so many viewers, they killed the server a couple of time, and they had to withdraw it completely for a few weeks. I think it wound up being counter-productive for tracking purposes, as during that time, the only way to see it was to download a stream-capture from a torrent site.

Even though they'll never be able to supply accurate numbers, I guess they have to try as hard as they can to be as accurate as they can, and ask that only the official mirror distribute the files... even if it's for free.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: mrbasehart on May 14, 2008, 05:49:12 AM
Yes, I know I can look this up, but how many episodes of New Voyages are there?
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: RoninFox on May 14, 2008, 06:06:32 AM
Actually, I think the whole reason the Phase II guys asked Rifftrax not to distribute the file has less to do with protecting their episodes than it has to with providing accurate numbers to Paramount about how many copies are being downloaded. At one time, they didn't really care if episodes were posted to torrent sites. But just before "World Enough And Time" was released, Paramount asked Cawley to meet with them, and to set up a screening of the episode for them. The New Voyages producers were worried that maybe it was time for the sword to drop, and they were gonna be asked to stop. Fortunately, Paramount allowed them to continue, but asked them to supply details on how often the show was being viewed. You know those suits... they just LOVE ratings.

For the first few months, the only way to watch the episode was through streaming. Unfortunately, there were so many viewers, they killed the server a couple of time, and they had to withdraw it completely for a few weeks. I think it wound up being counter-productive for tracking purposes, as during that time, the only way to see it was to download a stream-capture from a torrent site.

Even though they'll never be able to supply accurate numbers, I guess they have to try as hard as they can to be as accurate as they can, and ask that only the official mirror distribute the files... even if it's for free.

Thanks for that info, if this is the reason Rifftrax was asked to make the change its the first one that's really made sense to me.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 14, 2008, 06:24:10 AM
There have been four episodes released so far. "Come What May", "In Harm's Way", "To Serve All My Days", and "World Enough And Time". The first episode has been reclassified as a "pilot episode", and is not part of the official series. There was a HUGE jump in quality between the CWM and IHW, so I can kinda understand them wanting to make it a separate entity.

Ironically, CWM got the best treatment as far as a video release. There was an official special edition DVD pressed, and given to people who donated money to the production. The DVD is also available for download on a few of the mirrors. It has a commentary track, deleted scenes, bloopers, and easter eggs, if I remember correctly.

IHM also got an official DVD version available for download. It's barebones, but great quality, so it's the best way to watch the episode. There was a revised "directors cut" released of this episode, too, but only in WMV format. The unofficial DVD version of the director's cut was made from these files, so download the original version if you want the best quality. The director's cut only adds back in a few lines here and there. Nothing that you'll miss.

TSAMD has a couple releases. For mastering a DVD, I used the QuickTIme version, and got very good results. The video is in anamorphic widescreen, so you'll need to compensate for that.

Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 14, 2008, 07:19:47 AM
it's hard to argue with the power of torrent to get the word out...

Actually it's really easy - it's basically the opposite. I can see instances of bulletin boards that people have downloaded our tracks from, and it numbers in the thousands (of grabs). The people who are going there aren't having some epiphany of our existence (although in rare instances, this is the case) - it's more along the lines of  "Thank you! Please release [RiffTrax title] next!" and "Do more!"

Well, thanks for confirming the existance of pirates.

Do you really think you are helping the Phase2 guys in their efforts? Or is it more along the lines of "Thank You! Please riff [phase2 title] next!" and "do more!"

You want to complain about losing money when the Phase2 guys were never concerned about money in the first place. Do you fail to see my point?

Wait... Your original post specifically said:

""Oh... but I am helping Rifftrax by seeding this torrent of [insert product name here]".

Sure, they are probably right... despite the powers that be insistance otherwise, it's hard to argue with the power of torrent to get the word out... "

And Torgos defended that point.

Then you start talking to him like he's a retard?

WTF man?

Well, just to put this thing to bed... It was never my intention to talk to anybody like "a retard". So I will apologize if I came across that way.

The general point that I was going for was that you can't complain about unauthorized third party distribution of your work (ie. torrent), when you are doing the exact same thing to the phase2 guys.... acting as an unauthorized distributor.  pot kettle black basically.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Conor on May 14, 2008, 08:52:45 AM
The reason there is a difference is because when Phase II talked to us and explained where they were coming from, we respected their thoughts on the matter.  If we had done the same thing to The Pirate Bay they would have posted our letter and made fun of us.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Flopsy T. Hamster on May 14, 2008, 09:19:22 AM
The reason there is a difference is because when Phase II talked to us and explained where they were coming from, we respected their thoughts on the matter.  If we had done the same thing to The Pirate Bay they would have posted our letter and made fun of us.

Yeah, there's little point in contacting most torrent sites. Most of them, especially Pirate Bay, actually enjoy refusing to take torrents down.

I think the big distinction is that Rifftrax are a commercial product, and are being sold. New Voyages/Phase II is a fan produced project given away for free on the internet. It's easy to assume that something being given away for free is similar to "public domain" without realizing that the authors may want to keep control over the distribution of the files.

To be honest, though, the only way I would have ever known about Rifftrax is from a download at a torrent site. When I downloaded it, though, I had no idea what it was, and as soon as I realized that it was Mike and the boys, I visited the site, bought a few Rifftrax, and made good with a donation. So, some good did come of it. Not that it justifies it in any way. But I do wish that Phase II had an easy way to donate to their production. The only form of donation they can accept is a non-monetary donations, such as mailing them gift cards to places they can buy supplies from. If they had a PayPal system set up, I'd gladly match the $3 I paid Rifftrax (or more). Being in Canada, I can't really do that.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 14, 2008, 09:29:28 AM
The reason there is a difference is because when Phase II talked to us and explained where they were coming from, we respected their thoughts on the matter.  If we had done the same thing to The Pirate Bay they would have posted our letter and made fun of us.

I understand that and I wasn't trying to imply that anybody on the rifftrax side was being unscrupulous. In no way am I trying to defend piracy... but I don't think because you changed your approach after the fact does anything to invalidate my point. Sharing / redistributing / giving away / stealing  "for profit" work is wrong... but it's a different stroke from the same brush if you are redistributing volunteer work for a profit. While maybe the letter of the law is on your side... It's akin to spraying Glade in the bathroom... the shit still stinks... but just smells a bit more flowery. The fact that you respected the wishes of the originators of the work really doesn't sway my opinion that the whole thing was in poor taste to begin with.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: bettertomorrowamy on May 14, 2008, 10:16:03 AM
Can't we just get beyond Thunderdome?
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Nunyerbiz on May 14, 2008, 10:27:17 AM
Hah... yea... I am done. Didn't mean to pour so much piss into the Cheerios...

At the end of the day, I love you guys... Professional rifftraxers and amatuer forum members alike.

[group hug]
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: BathTub on May 14, 2008, 02:34:05 PM
I'm not sure if it was a matter of backing down at all. If I'm interpreting events right, Rifftrax thought they could without incident, they were told they couldn't, they stopped. I kind of doubt Rifftrax ever gave the middle finger to them and said, "We'll do what we want!" until some threat was made that made them stop.

Question, though: Now that Rifftrax doesn't provide the video, can you talk about Rifftrax at their forum?

I doubt it, still banned.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MrTorso on May 14, 2008, 03:25:17 PM
I'm not sure if it was a matter of backing down at all. If I'm interpreting events right, Rifftrax thought they could without incident, they were told they couldn't, they stopped. I kind of doubt Rifftrax ever gave the middle finger to them and said, "We'll do what we want!" until some threat was made that made them stop.

Question, though: Now that Rifftrax doesn't provide the video, can you talk about Rifftrax at their forum?

I doubt it, still banned.

Yeah they never even approved me. I was using the same forum name and I wonder if they were checking our member list since they probably had an influx of new members when the RT hit.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: BathTub on May 14, 2008, 03:33:30 PM
And just unbanned!
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: Conor on May 14, 2008, 04:09:19 PM
I just got approved an hour ago.  I used a made up name though.  Still don't see any posts about us though...
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: MrTorso on May 14, 2008, 05:19:51 PM
Yeah I just got an approval message not to long after posting above.
Title: Re: star trek phase2 reception
Post by: RoninFox on May 14, 2008, 05:24:23 PM
Hah... yea... I am done. Didn't mean to pour so much piss into the Cheerios...

At the end of the day, I love you guys... Professional rifftraxers and amatuer forum members alike.

[group hug]

Hey, I'm a professional forum member!  Or at least I would be if anyone was enough of a sucker to pay me.