RiffTrax Forum

General Discussion => Television aka TV discussion => Topic started by: Zardoz! on January 30, 2008, 12:14:54 AM

Title: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Zardoz! on January 30, 2008, 12:14:54 AM
I just caught the repeat of this and loved it, it reminded me why DS9 was the best of the nextgen setting series.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Blueguy on January 30, 2008, 05:20:49 AM
Agreed.  Loved DS9. 
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Sideswipe on January 30, 2008, 05:43:07 AM
Yeah, Far Beyond the Stars is a fantastic episode.  I also really liked, In the Pale Moonlight.  Shows why Sisko is probably the best Captain.  He has his integrity and his morals, but he is willing to put them aside to get shit done.  He has the guts to get it done and thick enough skin that he won't let it haunt him for the rest of his life.  That the kind of character I like, espicially in war, you have to do things that you dont want to, or are morally questionable if the outcome could help end the fighting and save lives.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Doctor Who? on January 30, 2008, 08:00:58 AM
I have never understood why people always compare DS9 and B5.  They both take place on a space station but that is where similarities end,they are two difforant shows and they are both good in their own way.

On average I found the acting in Ds9 to be better then on B5(Please don't think I am knocking B5 I am a huge B5 fan),both shows helped take their brands of sci-fi in places it had never gone before.

As for Far beyond the stars I taped it last night off of Spike and I will have to let you know what I think.  I saw it back when i was a kid and was waking up and 5 in the morning on Saturdays to tape the show,but as a kid it freaked me out and I didn't keep the tape.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 30, 2008, 11:29:35 AM
Everyone has different tastes, I never thought DS9 got into a groove, a few good episodes here and there but too many bad ones.  They really shot themselves in the foot when they put the dominion on the other side of the wormhole, instead of a steady stream of  interesting ships and characters coming and going we got season after season of war....  I guess that was my beef with DS9, too much war.  Same problem with Voyager, they were supposed to be making a bee line for home but they filled entire seasons with conflicts with the same enemies, the show was good when they were on the move every week like they were in the last season. 

The obsession with long story arcs has killed many shows, it's fine for shows that are set from the start to have a beginning, middle , and end, (B5, BSG, even Lost)  but for shows that are supposed to be ongoing / open-ended they always seem to hurt the show if they go on for more than 2 or 3 episodes.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Doctor Who? on January 30, 2008, 11:46:48 AM
I always thought that from season 3 on DS9 was in the groove.

I can only think of a handful of episodes that i would call bad.

For me the war stories on DS9 worked becouse it was the first time the ideals of the federation had ever been chalanged,and you saw that the Federation wasn't some perfect place run by perfect people who never made mistakes.

Also i loved all the characters.

I loved the plot arcs becouse they kept me on the edge of my seat week after week and you knew that every event was going to affect the other events some how.

As for Far beyond the stars I found it to be  trite,but it was fun trite.

It was neat seeing the crew out of make up,the cast seemed to be having good time,and it was nice to get off the station and into a period for a change.  i enjoyed it.

7.5/10.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: RobtheBarbarian on January 30, 2008, 11:49:42 AM
Kira's...well, everything about Kira.

Thank you. She ruined every episode she was in for more than 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: DrForester on January 30, 2008, 08:24:46 PM
I liked this episode until I learned that the producer wanted to make Benny's world the real world for DS9's finale.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Zardoz! on January 30, 2008, 08:26:27 PM
Well, I liked a lot of the way the ep showed the truth about how pulp SF mags got done in the 50's, and the way it showed a lot of the cast out of alien makeup.

Dammit, I wish it had had andrew robinson in it, I liked Mr. garak....

BTW, since we're all having a nice enjoyable discussion re DS9, how about favorite characters?

I liked Odo, Quark and Mr. Garak. I think that gul dukat was a great villain, right up there with Skorpious from Frrscape.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Zardoz! on January 30, 2008, 08:28:16 PM
I liked this episode until I learned that the producer wanted to make Benny's world the real world for DS9's finale.

Since DS9 tied into TNG and the jeri ryan tits, ass and attitude hour, and even tied into TOS, it would have to mean the entire trek universe was benny's dream too.

Sorry, Gene Roddenberry came up with it.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on January 30, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
Im in total agreement with side.  Those are two great episodes, ESPECIALLY pale moonlight.  One of the reasons i think me and side are in such agreement is that we have served. side in the army and i in the air force.  Sisko essentially reminds me of everything that a commander in the real military is supposed to be. tough unrelenting in charge, but gains the respect of his men and his officers, and will not put up with crap from the enemy (or even a neutral) if itll cost his men, however he is willing to send his men into danger, because he expects sthem to be soldiers (shipwrecked is a great episode of that). 

It only seems like cliches to so many people because they have no real world experience with it.  We were soldiers fits this bill, it could totally be called cliche, but that was based on a real commander who really accomplished all those things. 

In a choice between us and them, THERE IS NO CHOICE  -  Sisko. 
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Doctor Who? on January 30, 2008, 09:27:43 PM
Im in total agreement with side.  Those are two great episodes, ESPECIALLY pale moonlight.  One of the reasons i think me and side are in such agreement is that we have served. side in the army and i in the air force.  Sisko essentially reminds me of everything that a commander in the real military is supposed to be. tough unrelenting in charge, but gains the respect of his men and his officers, and will not put up with crap from the enemy (or even a neutral) if itll cost his men, however he is willing to send his men into danger, because he expects sthem to be soldiers (shipwrecked is a great episode of that). 

It only seems like cliches to so many people because they have no real world experience with it.  We were soldiers fits this bill, it could totally be called cliche, but that was based on a real commander who really accomplished all those things. 

In a choice between us and them, THERE IS NO CHOICE  -  Sisko. 

dude you just put down why Sisko is my favorite captain from any sci-fi show.  He is always in charge.

I was up set that we didn't get to see Garek out of make up too,but hey we will always have Dirty Harry for that.

The first time i watch this episode i thought they where going to end all of Star trek,I was glad to get the end of the episode and see that that wasn't the case.

I have a hard time picking a favorite character,but if I had to pick i would say O'Brion.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on January 31, 2008, 09:55:03 AM
garek is my fav
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on January 31, 2008, 10:05:21 AM
fair enough but while you are judging on second hand info we are judging on first hand. 
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Sideswipe on January 31, 2008, 10:53:32 AM
well it my be cliche, and it may not make interesting television for some people, but the simple fact is it happens, people freeze up.  I've seen it happen myself, in combat as well as training.  Combat is choatic and terrifying, people get paralyzed because if they screw up they could kill someone, or themselves. 
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Doctor Who? on January 31, 2008, 11:12:27 AM
I don't understand what is so bad about the acting in Ds9.

There where some bad moments in the first season but that is pretty much pare for the course with every TV show.  By season two the actors had found their characters and I can't think of moments off the top of my head when they didn't do a good job.

The acting was miles better then a lot of other shows on American tv at the time(Including Babylon 5 where the actors sometime look like they are in a high school play),the actors really seemed to be their characters.

But then again what do i know I liked Keri,and the only romance that felt forced to me was the Bashier and Dax 2.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on January 31, 2008, 07:56:50 PM
so just to make this clear, you wanted an Atypical war type story between space aliens and an intergalatic UN?  And what would that look like? my guess is any arnie movie to include but not exclusive to junior. 
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on January 31, 2008, 08:55:12 PM
that brings up something thats ALWAYS bugged me.  why does everyone think ptsd is so common?  You want cliche, thats your friggen cliche.  literally HUNDREDS of thousands of troops have come back from this war (not to mention all the others and the first gulf war)  and the way the media portrays it youd think that one rotation in iraq is all anyone can do before they get sent to the insane asymlem despite the existance of all those careers officers and NCOS.  Soldiers fight battles, we kill people, we live despite people trying to kill us.  we come back, then we do it again.  Thats the nature of all things. 
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on February 01, 2008, 01:48:06 PM
i was speaking more in general (and about the real world) more than towards a tv show. 
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on February 01, 2008, 01:50:34 PM
im confused regardless of the war the way the media portrays it is pretty much the same.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on February 01, 2008, 04:25:26 PM
i dunno, i hear lots of ptsd stories from vietnam but not from korea or WWII, of course ill bet the draft and the way they were treated had something to do with it. 
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: RobtheBarbarian on February 01, 2008, 04:36:22 PM
I've heard stories about shellshock from WWII, but you have to actually look for them. I think it has something to do with this "greatest generation" image WWII vets have and how the popular cliche of WWII is of plucky young American soldiers fighting the good fight against the evil Nazis with stoicism and comradery; it makes talking about mentally-wounded WWII vets kind of sacriligious. As opposed to that, Vietnam is the stereotypical "horror of war" war that represents unwilling draftees trapped in brutal, savage chaos, and the cliche of the soldier with PTSD fits right in with that image.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on February 01, 2008, 04:37:43 PM
yeah, although i wish i had some actual #s
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on February 01, 2008, 04:43:29 PM
perhaps but i think in a lot of ways this war is lot more damaging mentally.  the type of work we are doing is worse than trench warfare.  the enemy is invisible, and they hide in the populous. we have to kick down doors.  and lets not forget the power congress has over it now.  thats mindlessly stupid.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Sideswipe on February 03, 2008, 01:23:23 PM
Thats the people who have signs right off.  PTSD can take years before it affects people.  I haven't had any problems other than a few bad dreams, but I wonder sometimes if something might happen a couple years down the road.  I still have until October before my time is up.  I could still be deployed again before then.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Sideswipe on February 03, 2008, 02:53:59 PM
Suicides also are not specificly caused by PTSD though
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Zardoz! on February 03, 2008, 04:38:18 PM
PTSD is very real, and it does change and even destroy people.

I know a guy who's like a GENIUS, literally. He could read at college level by fourth grade, had an I.Q. over 140, etc. But he had a lot of issues dealing with normal people, and as a result in school was subject to a lot of abuse from other kids. He couldn't do well in school due to what was described as a form of "battle fatigue" from constantly being attacked by other kids in various ways. He became clinically depressed and may have ended up doing a school shooting/suicide eventually.

The system's wonderful solution was to lock him up, even tho he had NO criminal record, in a "residential educational facility" that was basically a prison with no oversight, where the "experts" practiced "therapy" that consisted of constant degradation, humiliation, psychological abuse and mental torture.

They also did things that would have been ILLEGAL in any prison in the US.

They people running the place made a lot of money on it all, given that "institutionalization" was a fad at the time.

The guy came out with severe PTSD, never went to college, never got a job, etc. Eventually he died of personal neglect, the result of just literally having his mind systematically crushed by the "educational therapy center" he was imprisoned at.

He died of PTSD, pure and simple. I couldn't help him. No one could after a year in that place.

Yeah, PTSD is real, and it can be fatal.
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: Cthulhu Bob on February 03, 2008, 09:41:29 PM
PTSD did exist in WWII, I know because my grandfather went through it. And his experience was very similar to Vietnam and Iraq; he was a Lieutenant with the British Army fighting the Japanese in Southeast Asia. The only thing he has ever told me about that tour of duty was that it was a good day if he came out of the jungle with only a 75% casualty rate. My grandmother mentioned that when he came back at the end of the War he had horrible insomnia, nightmares, and inexplicable nervous shakes for about a year afterwards. And to top it all off his sons didn't recognize him as their father since he was away for the first 5 years of their lives and that made his transition to civilian life that much more difficult.

Thankfully, he is still alive today and he gives a very special meaning to Rememberance Day for me every year.

To my grandfather!*raising a glass of Guiness in his honour*
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on February 04, 2008, 03:25:08 PM
imrahil you didnt read that article very closely.  the main reason it cited was increased ops tempo aka the amount time spent away from families.  NPR morning edition talked about this very article friday.  They also cited the relationships problem as the main issue.  Its no surprise that divorce rates are skyrocketing at the same time that suicide rates are rising.  further you glossed over the creepy fact that the CIVILIAN suicide rate is still higher than the military rate.  Is that due to ptsd as well?
Title: Re: Deep space 9: Far beyond the stars.
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on February 04, 2008, 06:38:51 PM
woot for me the only point ive EVER made on this point that someone agreed with me on lol. can i frame this thread?  its like winning the lottery