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RiffTrax Discussion => Individual RiffTrax Discussion => Star Wars Ep1 Phantom Menace => Topic started by: Cambot on November 02, 2006, 04:41:38 PM

Title: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Cambot on November 02, 2006, 04:41:38 PM
Of course not!

I couldn't even type that subject line with a straight face. I want to hear from you if you thought there were, though
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Pak-Man on November 02, 2006, 05:02:16 PM
Just a little.

Don't get me wrong. I love Ep 1, but it sure had it coming to it. I just think there should have been a bit more riffing on the events in the movie and a bit less slamming the movie for being what it is. Still loved it, but a little more wisecracking in place of complaining would have been nice. :^)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 02, 2006, 06:34:00 PM
I agree with the Man of Pak.  They trod the same ground over and over, and one of those patches of grass happened to be the overall suckiness of the film.  I mean, every now and then it was very funny and when they came up with something unexpected I laughed a lot, but I thought that due to all the anger and farting noises, some riffing opportunities were missed-- what, no Spencer's Gifts references with the Gungan lightning balls?  Sometimes a character would say something just bizarre or Lucas-awful, and I'd tense up all, "Yeah? Yeah?" and... nothing.

I thought there was a bit too much reliance on North Dakota/Asian accents/chicken noises/Kevin spewing/making up stupid names.  Two or three times is a running joke.  Four or more is a comedy rut.  However, I certainly couldn't be anywhere near as funny as they were for two-plus hours of overblown CGI (how can you possibly beat "I appear in the name of transfats" and "He's the guy all the other Jedis go to for weed")? 

I did wince a couple of times when they damned the entire movie in such broad terms, because I thought Ewan McGregor did a terrific job with what he had to work with and the lightsaber battle was pretty darn good.  Although, I have to admit... sometimes stating the obvious is simply needed.  I cracked up the first time Fakey Jake opened his mouth and Mike just kind of muttered, "He's terrible." 
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: darthvedder81 on November 02, 2006, 11:32:34 PM
I don't know if too harsh is the right word but I thought some of the wisecracks were a tad unoriginal.

They riffed on just about every cliched criticism of the movie?I mean it's not exactly great humorous insight to point out that Jar Jar is annoying. Even Lucas knows he's annoying, he made the character annoying on purpose (whether or not you agree with that decision is a different story).

The racism accusations I continue to find ridiculous. That was one of the first critiques leveled at Lucas and it's the only one I find totally unmerited. Ahmed Best and many of the other actors came to GL's defense on that one and rightfully so.

Just saying "He's terrible" was also kind of stupid. C'mon, Mike come up with something better than just an outright attack on the poor guy! Jake wasn't exactly Sir John Gielgud but I thought he held his own in the emotional scenes with his mother. Personally I prefer my kid actors to actually be kids sometimes and not just creepy little 40 year olds in 10 year old bodies (I'm looking at you Haley Joel).

TPM isn't flawless and great but I also think it suffered from a) Being a huge target because of it being part of the most successful and influential movie franchise of all time b) The single most anticipated movie that has ever has been released or ever will be.

If it was the first SW film the weak aspects still wouldn't be excused by people but it also wouldn't have had to withstand all the vitriol and venom and would have been viewed as a pretty harmless little fairy tale.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 03, 2006, 04:18:16 AM
Quote
Just saying "He's terrible" was also kind of stupid. C'mon, Mike come up with something better than just an outright attack on the poor guy!

But they later backed it up with, "Is Frank Oz controlling this kid?"  I thought that was hilarious, so they just didn't let it lie with "He's terrible."  And that was funny to me because of the way Mike delivered it-- it wasn't just a flat read.  His tone was half wonder, half laughter:  Why did you do this to us, George?  That in and of itself was commentary, and is the type of thing one of my friends would say while watching the film.  His performance made it a riff rather than just a slam.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: dignan on November 03, 2006, 05:15:56 AM
Not at all.  I especially loved the riffs that poked fun at everyone's incredibly flat deliveries. 
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: mrbasehart on November 03, 2006, 06:09:14 AM
No, I didn't.  I thought that Phantom Menace was pretty bad beforehand (apart from some very nicely put together scenes) and so the level of animosity towards the film I believe was entirely expected.  I especially laughed when Jar Jar started talking at one point and Mike just said abruptly, "Go to Hell!"
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: darthvedder81 on November 03, 2006, 07:46:35 AM
Quote
Just saying "He's terrible" was also kind of stupid. C'mon, Mike come up with something better than just an outright attack on the poor guy!

But they later backed it up with, "Is Frank Oz controlling this kid?"  I thought that was hilarious, so they just didn't let it lie with "He's terrible."  And that was funny to me because of the way Mike delivered it-- it wasn't just a flat read.  His tone was half wonder, half laughter:  Why did you do this to us, George?  That in and of itself was commentary, and is the type of thing one of my friends would say while watching the film.  His performance made it a riff rather than just a slam.

Yeah that line was pretty funny.

Though, if you watch "The Beginning" documentary on the DVD you'll see that Jake Lloyd, believe it or not, was light years better than the other boys who tried out for Anakin. It actually could've been a hell of a lot worse!
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Cambot on November 03, 2006, 08:48:51 AM
Some of the riffs were vintage Mike & Kevin. Like comparing some of the creatures to real human counterparts they may slightly resemble. Like when Jar-Jar was introduced, Mike quips "Michael Bolton??" And saying that Watto was a great Paul Giamatti part.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Otis on November 03, 2006, 09:12:53 AM
No. This movie deserves everything that can be thrown at it. I was a huge Star Wars fan as a kid. I saw the first movie three times during the opening week. And TPM just. plain. sucked. Bad script. Wooden acting. Jar Jar. Cute kid. Horrible accents. Trade blockade.

Way to ruin a franchise indeed.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Tyrant on November 03, 2006, 11:50:37 AM

  Hey, if anything, Mike and Kevin weren't harsh -enough-. I would have enjoyed having this movie thoroughly bloodied inside and out, but I suppose all the humor would have bled out too.

   Equal parts riff and insult did this movie well. The movie deserved both.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 11:53:15 AM
TPM is my new favorite riff movie because I thought it was just right ;)

(And I loved the Asian references with the Trade Fed aliens - classic)

Even if it was too harsh.... I didn't care =)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on November 03, 2006, 12:03:10 PM

(And I loved the Asian references with the Trade Fed aliens - classic)


Funny,

I've been thinking of them that way from the first time I saw them onscreen!

Though I haven't hear the Rifftrak(s) just yet(Saturday night can't come fast enough!), I am anxious to hear how Mike and Kevin make my dreams a reality!
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: FrensaGeran on November 03, 2006, 03:44:39 PM
"Oh I just keep thinkin' of the poor superfan in the Stormtrooper outfit at the premiere of this turd sayin' to himself 'Ok, MAYBE the next scene won't EAT quite as much!' and then each scene EATS more than the one before it."

Minus the outfit, this was me. This was so terribly, terribly me. This was the greatest rifftrax yet. They're redundancy and anger over the film just really connected with me, and I laughed in torrents.

Good show, Mike and Kevin.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 03:56:32 PM
"Oh I just keep thinkin' of the poor superfan in the Stormtrooper outfit at the premiere of this turd sayin' to himself 'Ok, MAYBE the next scene won't EAT quite as much!' and then each scene EATS more than the one before it."

Minus the outfit, this was me. This was so terribly, terribly me. This was the greatest rifftrax yet. They're redundancy and anger over the film just really connected with me, and I laughed in torrents.

Good show, Mike and Kevin.

Haha - I was in junior high at the time... and I remember my buddy sitting next to me throwing popcorn at the screen when Maul couldn't slice Obi in half after Obi leaps over him..... Funny, because the move that Obi uses to kill Maul is the move that Ani uses at the end of RotS - and /Ani/ is the one that gets sliced in half....

Continuity problems, Georgio!
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 03, 2006, 04:01:34 PM
Difference being, although Obi-Wan had the high ground and Annie The Boy tried this anyway, Maul was in Party Mode and Obi-Wan was ready for it.  AtB was acting out of arrogance and, dare I say, overestimating his powers-- the very things that brought him to be Vader in the first place.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 04:05:33 PM
Difference being, although Obi-Wan had the high ground and Annie The Boy tried this anyway, Maul was in Party Mode and Obi-Wan was ready for it.  AtB was acting out of arrogance and, dare I say, overestimating his powers-- the very things that brought him to be Vader in the first place.

Ah - yes - party mode Maul was unprepared..... too bad though, I liked him (even though he barely spoke =( )

However, I now know that if a jedi were to flip over me, IMMEDIATELY slice diagonally top to bottom.... it is now burned into my impulses.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Busyman on November 03, 2006, 04:40:57 PM
Mike & Kevin weren't too harsh on this cinematic dog turd. They gave this movie exactly the respect it deserved: None. And I loved every minute of it (The only thing I didn't like about this rifftrax was that I had to go out and buy a copy of this movie, thus giving Lucas more money for this pile of monkey droppings).

The Phantom Menace a bad movie. No wait, calling it bad would be an insult to other bad movies. This is an awful, awful film. This would have been a giant bomb back in 1999 if it didn't have Star Wars in front of it. That's the only reason it made any money, and why some people continue to this day to try and delude themselves into thinking that this was a decent flick.

There are only two good things about the film:

1) Liam Neeson gives a good performance, likely because he is the only person who has anything to work with (not that he has much).
2) The Lightsaber duel is the best one in the entire Star Wars Saga. The ONLY reason to own a copy of this movie before

Everything else about this movie is awful: Ewan McGregor's role is to stand around and do nothing until he's supposed to kill Darth Maul. Jar Jar is reprehensibly bad. Jake Lloyd is terrible (My 2nd favorite riff was when Mike asked "Is it okay to say that this kid sucks?"), and Natalie Portman is more stiff then a surfboard. And what do we get for a supposed action movie? The long and pointless journey to the "core" of the Naboo, the even more long and tedious pod race scene. And of course, scene after scene of TALKING with the horrible Lucas dialouge that serves no purose expect make the viewer wish for the sweet release of death.

Too harsh? I can't see a way that anyone, short of wishing death on everyone involved in this movie, could possibly be too harsh.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 05:06:07 PM
hehe.... funny comment =)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 03, 2006, 05:30:24 PM
Kevin's barfing noises got pretty repetitive -- but then, how else CAN you react to Jar Jar?

Also, it sounded like Mike and Kevin were scrapping a bit more than usual. All in fun, I know. I mean, I hope. I hope this isn't the movie that ruined their friendship forever or something like that!  :) I can see how the sheer awfulness might have made them a bit moody.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 04, 2006, 09:38:28 PM
Was that the point, do you think?  I've never heard them so angry at a Rifftrax movie.  It kind of reminds me of this one anecdote I heard about the writer's room during the MST3K days, when at least one of the Brains, every single movie, would just snap, leap out of his chair, and rush up to the TV screen in order to flip off the film.

Nobody fake-pukes like Kevin Murphy, to the point where my stomach can only handle one or two of 'em.  He needs to put that on his resume.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Sharktopus on November 04, 2006, 09:58:29 PM
I'm pretty sure Mike and Kevin did their usual bang-up job, but I can't be entirely sure as, just like every attempt of mine to watch the Phantom Menace since opening night, Thursday's screening had me nodding off during the podrace and drifting in and out straight through to the lightsaber duel. For me, the podrace is like sitting through a calculus lecture, my head swimming with Nyquil with identical cartoon sheep jumping before my eyes. I'll have to try watching it again while doing jumping jacks over firey coals.

Haha - I was in junior high at the time... and I remember my buddy sitting next to me throwing popcorn at the screen when Maul couldn't slice Obi in half after Obi leaps over him.....

Jebus, you're a youngling, aintcha?

Said the crusty old geezer of 25...
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 05, 2006, 04:18:38 PM
You know, thinking about it, I don't believe they were a bit harder on this film than they were on Shatner in STV. Maybe it's just more noticeable here because they were harsh on the entire film, whereas with STV they seemed to reserve most of their hatred for The Shat.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Sheik Yerbouti on November 06, 2006, 01:02:35 AM
Just the right amount of harshness if you ask me.  I found this track to be extremely cathartic since I was a huge Star Wars fan up until about, oh, May 1999.  I hadn't seen Phantom Menace in a few years so I was curious to find out if I would find it any more tolerable.  Nope, I hate it even more.  I won't go in to specifics because I'll be here all day.  Possibly my new favorite Rifftrack however.  One of my favorite lines had to be when they are commending R2D2 on saving the ship and Mike says something like "We also have this heroic photocopier here.".  Loved it.  That scene always bothered me deeply on a Star Wars geek level because R2D2 is an astromech droid and it was his function to fix spaceships!  You might as well thank your toaster for all the sense that makes.  Anyway, I thought Mike and Kevin nailed the movie perfectly.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: PsypherPunk on November 06, 2006, 03:40:52 AM
I have to admit that when I saw this film in '99 the fanboy in me wouldn't let me admit to actually disliking it ("Well, it's alright" or "It's got some good parts!"). However, 7 years on and I openly admit, it's just bad. My girlfriend, who'd never seen a Star Wars film in her life, watched this a few months back. Her quick, one-word review? Awful.

A bad idea, done badly which made a billion dollars. No, I didn't find them too harsh, not in the slightest.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 06, 2006, 04:43:47 AM
Quote
"We also have this heroic photocopier here."

Oh, that was one of my favorite parts.  Don't forget the also-heroic coin sorter.  Those were the types of insightful riffs that had me rolling, because, just as you say... like a droid would care whether it's "commended" or not.  Well, DisembAudio might enjoy a nice crumb tray cleaning for a sych job well done, speaking of toasters.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 06, 2006, 05:15:32 AM
You might as well thank your toaster for all the sense that makes. 

Shhh . . . DisembAudio might be listening.  ;)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Devilboy on November 06, 2006, 07:38:21 AM
This movie got exactly what it deserved.  Plainly put, the movie sucked on toast.
I especially loved all the references made to the overdone digital effects.  Granted, they are spectacular... but that is about all this movie had going for it.  And all of the diggs against Jake Lloyd?.... 100% deserved.  That kid sucked... a horrible actor.  How much work has that kid got since 1999????   Zip, nada, zilch.... and do you know why??.... because his performance sucked, plain and simple.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on November 06, 2006, 11:12:59 AM
I didn't think their harshness was overdone, I just worry that they had nothing else to go on. If all they can do is point out how bad the film is, then what's the point? From the very beginning, the idea is to riff movies that deserve it. Absolutely does Episode 1 deserve it, just don't make that the only riff. I thought they had a decent balance, if not a tad too much harshness in favor of cleverness. However, all the asian stereotype references to the Trade Federation aliens was spot on.

To Episode 1's credit, it is imperative to watch this movie in a proper theater. What I mean is, the sound must be perfectly balanced, dynamic, and without distortion, and the picture must be clean and bright. The first time I saw it in the theater, everything was absolutely perfect. I was so floored by the presentation, and it has sadly never been repeated in all my years of moviegoing. The second time I saw it in a theater, was at an older, different theater, and the sound was so quiet, I almost walked out.  >:(

Sure there was plenty of crap in this movie, but from a technical standpoint, it can be amazing. Put it this way: It's all style and no substance.

But Mike and Kevin were only barely too harsh, and I did feel that Kevin was maybe a little too crass this time around.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 06, 2006, 02:13:52 PM
This movie got exactly what it deserved.  Plainly put, the movie sucked on toast.


Toast seems to be a theme these days. Is toast the new spork? :)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Sharktopus on November 06, 2006, 06:24:28 PM
Toast seems to be a theme these days. Is toast the new spork? :)

It's paying tribute to our benevolent toaster overlord DisembAudio.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Harblar on November 06, 2006, 07:55:05 PM
What can I say? I'm a die hard Star Wars fan and I laughed so hard at this riff I nearly passed out two or three times.  I'd just heard of Riff Trax the other day on G-4 and gotta say this brought back all the kicks I got out of MST3K and more.

I liked TPM when it first opened in theaters. The first time I saw it after I was mildly bored, and every time I've watched it since it has become progressively worse and worse and worse! I never did like Jar Jar and have always hated Jake Loyd (please, oh please, oh please riff Jingle all the way next!) ;) , and the comments on these two characters were the best. comparing  jar jar to roger rabbit (can't remember the full line) had me crying!

I also got a huge kick out of the references to Mitchell, SD. "Home of the Corn Palace"  I live about 90 miles north of there and I can easily see the comparison to Tatooine. :D

I honestly don't think I'll ever be able to (or should ever) watch this movie with out this accompanying Riff again...  hmmmm....  Think it's time to break out the Video editing software and make my own personal "Special Edition". ;)

Keep up the good work guys. I look forward to your next set of riffs. (maybe a stab at episode 2... perhaps?) ::)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Justin on November 06, 2006, 10:23:07 PM
Dear Harblar,

We appreciate your interest in the RiffTrax edition of Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.  We would like to welcome you to the forums and invite you to sample other RiffTrax titles from our growing library.

Additionally, we ask you to please fill out this brief questionaire:

1.  How would you rate your RiffTrax experience?
    1= Great  2= Fantastic  3= OMFG! ROFLMAO!  4= Pie  5= I pledge my undying soul to Mike Nelson

2.  Would you reccommend RiffTrax to a friend?     Yes     No     Pie

3.  Would you say a person with a Trigun avatar is:
    A. Nerdy
    B. Very nerdy
    C. Uber-nerdy
    D. Pie
    E. the subject of good-natured ribbing

We appreciate your input and look forward to your repeat business.

Sincerely,

RiffTrax Community
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Justin on November 06, 2006, 10:31:16 PM
The answer to 3 is "E".  Just kidding about the Trigun thing, Harblar.  I'm one to talk.  On a different message board I use an Azumanga Daioh avatar.  Of course I don't know if that makes me an ironic nerd or a creepy pervert.

Food for thought.

(http://images.quizilla.com/Z/zippdementia/1052281337_Tomo4.JPG)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Pak-Man on November 06, 2006, 11:28:03 PM
Trigun is second only to Cowboy Bebop, which in turn is second only to Excel Saga, which is second again to Trigun.

That's my Anime Jon Ken. (And my western spelling) :^)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Sharktopus on November 06, 2006, 11:37:42 PM
Cowboy Bebop is awesome. Trigun is cool. Excel Saga is like Satan injecting a fresh, steaming turd into your brain, then making you pay him for the privilege. But I did like FLCL, for what it's worth. The Pillows soundtrack goes a long way.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: TOR on November 07, 2006, 01:24:36 AM
Quote
Just saying "He's terrible" was also kind of stupid. C'mon, Mike come up with something better than just an outright attack on the poor guy!

But they later backed it up with, "Is Frank Oz controlling this kid?"  I thought that was hilarious, so they just didn't let it lie with "He's terrible."  And that was funny to me because of the way Mike delivered it-- it wasn't just a flat read.  His tone was half wonder, half laughter:  Why did you do this to us, George?  That in and of itself was commentary, and is the type of thing one of my friends would say while watching the film.  His performance made it a riff rather than just a slam.
I am agree with. HAHAHA! That is funny! Next time be better.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Harblar on November 07, 2006, 01:57:42 PM
Dear Harblar,

We appreciate your interest in the RiffTrax edition of Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.  We would like to welcome you to the forums and invite you to sample other RiffTrax titles from our growing library.

Additionally, we ask you to please fill out this brief questionaire:

1.  How would you rate your RiffTrax experience?
    1= Great  2= Fantastic  3= OMFG! ROFLMAO!  4= Pie  5= I pledge my undying soul to Mike Nelson

 3 or 5, so... uh... Pie?  I guess :D

2.  Would you reccommend RiffTrax to a friend?     Yes     No     Pie

Already Have. I'll probably watch this again tonight and maybe this weekend I'll show it to some friends

3.  Would you say a person with a Trigun avatar is:
    A. Nerdy
    B. Very nerdy
    C. Uber-nerdy
    D. Pie
    E. the subject of good-natured ribbing

We appreciate your input and look forward to your repeat business.

Sincerely,

RiffTrax Community

C... But also an E, besides...  What do I expect? I am a huge Star Wars and Anime Fan living in South Dakota in such close proximity to the Corn Palace!  I'll stand here peacefully. Go ahead... Take your aim and fire...  I deserve it.   ;D

(oh and btw...  Trigun is good, but Full Metal Alchemist Pwns all!  just haven't had a chance to make an fma avatar yet!)  ;)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Justin on November 10, 2006, 06:36:42 PM
I never watch G4, so I don't know if you guys have seen these (or if they've been posted elsewhere).  Pretty funny.

Episode IV: Extended Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqKQuJFxz_A)

Episode VI: Extended Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4J2TA1gk8&mode=related&search=)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 10, 2006, 07:01:06 PM
A hearty "hee!" to those vids.  Great production quality too-- thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on November 13, 2006, 04:49:59 AM
I never watch G4, so I don't know if you guys have seen these (or if they've been posted elsewhere).  Pretty funny.

Episode IV: Extended Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqKQuJFxz_A)

Episode VI: Extended Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4J2TA1gk8&mode=related&search=)

The Ep. IV scene was just stupid and annoying.

The Ep. VI scene was excellent, superbly written and much better acted. Great!
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: 6079SmithW on November 15, 2006, 09:53:03 PM
I never watch G4, so I don't know if you guys have seen these (or if they've been posted elsewhere).  Pretty funny.

Episode IV: Extended Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqKQuJFxz_A)

Episode VI: Extended Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4J2TA1gk8&mode=related&search=)
God, what the hell happened to Lucas? These show off the degree to which his writing has gotten worse.

As for his directing skill, watch the Death Star Trench Run, then watch the pod racing scene. I swear the man must have gone retarded at some point.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Teaflax on November 16, 2006, 12:31:03 AM
As for his directing skill, watch the Death Star Trench Run, then watch the pod racing scene. I swear the man must have gone retarded at some point.

I think Lucas got lucky and hired the right people early on in his career. A film is so very much a team effort, that even the most hands-on of auteurs is dependent on having a good cinematographer, editor, etc. I think the evidence speaks for itself; the more clout and power Lucas got to make films without anyone being able/allowed to criticize his decisions, the worse his films got.

I mean, don't forget that Star Wars was originally "The Adventures of Luke Starkiller" or somesuch.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 16, 2006, 05:00:01 AM
Quote
I think Lucas got lucky and hired the right people early on in his career. A film is so very much a team effort, that even the most hands-on of auteurs is dependent on having a good cinematographer, editor, etc. I think the evidence speaks for itself; the more clout and power Lucas got to make films without anyone being able/allowed to criticize his decisions, the worse his films got.

Excellent point.  He's a genius big-picture guy, and then he's an editor.  If only he'd depended on others for the rest...
Title: Too Harsh? pshaw
Post by: Ponty on November 22, 2006, 07:05:38 PM
The first time I ever saw this movie...opening night [ along with half of the other poor saps that populate my hometown ]...I got as far as the "ALL PRAISE R2D2"  scene before it really hit me that I was wasting my money and precious hours of sleep.

Mike and Kevin had me at "We also have this heroic photocopier here..." and had they gone as far as stepping into the film and taking a ball bat to every single character in the remainder show they would not have been going 'Too Far'

I will agree that they could have put more finesse into it at points...but sometimes it's better to just squash a turd rather than try to dissect it. {I mean if you're gonna do one or the other...you know}

(http://www.badhobbit.com/naboo1.bmp)
Title: Re: Too Harsh? pshaw
Post by: Sharktopus on November 24, 2006, 01:33:10 PM
sometimes it's better to just squash a turd rather than try to dissect it.

An excellent point and a disturbing metaphor that I'm going to have to borrow.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: fishbulb on December 02, 2006, 01:03:33 PM
Of course they weren't too harsh!
If this steaming pile of crap didn't have "Star Wars" in its title, no one would be talking about it today.

Lucas made a couple of fun Saturday afternoon popcorn movies a quarter century ago - then, when he decided to continue the series, instead of making more Saturday afternoon popcorn movies, he tries to be Shakespeare.  He deserves every possible bit of ridicule.

When your movie starring Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, and Samuel L. Jackson turns out to be one of the worst-acted movies ever, it begins to seem likely that the actors aren't to blame.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Avindair on December 05, 2006, 09:01:23 AM
If anything they were too kind.

Dennis: The Phantom Menace is an unfathomably terrible movie.  Poorly conceived, badly writtten, and directed with all the finese of a barfly fumbling for their first happy hour drink, it's an utter disaster.

Gods, I hate this movie.

Best riffs for me:


Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Nunyerbiz on December 08, 2006, 09:18:46 AM

Like somebody said a page or two back... I do think they maybe went a little too harsh at the cost of some funny, but overall this was spot on. Back in '99, I walked out of TPM just dumbfounded. I didn't hate it but I knew it wasn't good. This marked the first time I'd seen it the whole way through since then. Wow... just wow... for the first time with Rifftrax, I can honestly say that I will never, ever watch this movie again without the commentary. It has been completely and utterly destroyed.

There were times I was cringing at the more 'venomous' comments but it was oddly refreshing to see them truly express their rage at the screen. Sure, they got a little worked up now and again on MST3k, but nothing like this. This isn't the funniest rifftrax, but I don't know if it was really meant to be. I think once they started writing it they just said "WTF... let's just do a hatchet job on this pile of shit!"
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Pak-Man on December 08, 2006, 11:50:39 AM
I guess my only problem is that it was treated more harshly than Crossroads. I mean I know it wasn't as great as other SW offerings, but it deserves better than Crossroads, at least.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Nunyerbiz on December 08, 2006, 12:31:27 PM
Crossroads was a cash-in opportunity for a pop singer. It wasn't the opening chapter from the most popular movie series in the history of ever. If you had anything approaching even mediocre expectations for Crossroads then just maybe I'd agree with you. As it stands, I knew Crossroads was going to suck and I wasn't terribly broken up about it. The completely wasted promise that the "beginning" of the Star Wars story had is a far bigger travesty than a pointless road trip movie from Ms.Spears.

Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: mydrumsaresick on December 22, 2006, 12:45:56 PM
I dont think so. they brought up so many things that I never took in to consideration. how they couldn't "Jedi" that fact that she was the queen. I was rolling. what I like about them is they are harsh. they pull no punches and have fun with the movie. they leave no race, creed, or color out. I love it.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Johnny_Short_Torso on December 23, 2006, 06:09:50 PM
There is NO such thing as too harsh with The Phantom Menace. The movie is a travashamockery. There is at least one thing wrong with every single aspect of that movie, logic holes everywhere, bad script, bad dialogue, bad plot, bad characters, bad directing, bad camera moves, ugly special effects, not to mention overuse of fart and feces jokes. This movie was more like Fart Wars, or Bodily stenches wars, or something.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Teaflax on December 25, 2006, 05:01:45 AM
Actually, there is one thing I will give Ep 1: production design. Most of it is excellent, if occasionally overblown. But that's it. It's getting cut no more slack than that.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Ranika on December 25, 2006, 12:04:00 PM
I can't imagine being too harsh with the movie itself. Maybe with Jake Lloyd, he's only a boy, but, still, he sucked bad. If any of the other performances had been remotely decent (I'll forgive Liam on the sole basis that he had such awful material to work with), it might have helped him seem less awful. The movie as a whole is just shit though, and the hype for it made it all the worse, as has been a thousand times or more.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Slublog on January 02, 2007, 10:13:33 AM
The answer to the original question - not at all.  Their rage was hysterical.

My favorite parts of the track are when Jar Jar says hello to someone and Mike's response is "Oh, get bent!" and the scene where they are planning the battle and both riffers admit that they have no idea what is going on.

Watching this film with the riffers made me realize just how awful it really was.  And now I hear that Lucas and Speilberg are going forward with Indiana Jones IV.  Suggested subtitle - "As If You Didn't Hate Lucas Enough."
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Minnesota on January 02, 2007, 12:06:49 PM
As an answer to the original question; no.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Nunyerbiz on January 04, 2007, 10:46:45 AM
I rewatched TPM last night for the sole purpose of making another reply to the "Were they too harsh thread?"

Like I said in my original reply a page or two back, I definitely thought they sacrificed some funny in exchange for just lashing out at the movie. I can't really say I blame them, as I'm sure a few days of nothing but watching this turd over and over is going to grind on anybody. They have no real requirement to reign themselves in like they might have faced within the MST3K confines.

That said, I really do think this rifftrax would have benfitted from a "less is more approach" in regards to some of the venom. The movie is what, seven or eight years old now? Unless you're breaking some new ground or skiing over virgin powder, you're just not gonna have much impact.... it's gonna get real tired, real fast.

The only real big offense in this regard is the Jar Jar stuff. On this repeat viewing, some of the Rifftrax content actually bothered me more than what was going on with the film itself. I'll put it this way, if I found 20 seconds of vomit impersonations amusing I would have thought Jar Jar was effective comic relief to begin with. I'll give them some credit with the "Jar Jar annoys your soul" bit, while the delivery was forced and it wasn't really funny... it was at least a bit clever. Of course, there's also the suicide reference... which was so far below the level that Mike and Kevin usually operate at, I cringed... cringed worse than anything presented that was penned by ol' George. Speaking of George, he's childish and has the intelligence of plant life. Again, just so far below what these guys are capable of. Say what you will about this shitfest, but that man was responsible for two of the greatest action/adventure trilogies of all time. It pains me to say that he didn't deserve that riff, but he didn't. As much as I despise everything that has been done to the Star Wars franchise since the Special Editions/prequels came out... the originals were not put together by a moron. Like Kevin so expertly put it, he just went "pants crappingly insane".

Don't get me wrong... I'm not decrying their overall attack on the movie. Most of it hit the mark perfectly... it's just that less would have been more in my opinion and the rifftrack suffers a bit as a result.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: BBQ Platypus on January 04, 2007, 11:26:11 AM
I don't really get the whole "harshness" thing.  As long as it's funny, I don't care WHAT they're saying about the movie.  And I found it to be funny.  Personally, I think they were being nice.  This movie destroyed any dignity Lucas might have deserved for making the original trilogy.  If I'm not making myself clear enough, I'll put it to you this way: on a karmic level, this movie cancels out The Empire Strikes Back.  Hell, it would cancel out a million of them.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on January 05, 2007, 04:57:48 PM
Quote
I'll put it this way, if I found 20 seconds of vomit impersonations amusing I would have thought Jar Jar was effective comic relief to begin with.

I think this is really insightful-- perhaps that's why this Rifftrax just didn't sit quite right with me.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on January 05, 2007, 06:03:01 PM
This movie destroyed any dignity Lucas might have deserved for making the original trilogy.  If I'm not making myself clear enough, I'll put it to you this way: on a karmic level, this movie cancels out The Empire Strikes Back.  Hell, it would cancel out a million of them.

Sorry, my friend, but no amount of bad movies over the course of infinity could tarnish the greatest three movies of all time, the greatest being The Empire Strikes Back. We'll just forget you said that and let you live.


Just don't let it happen again.

Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: BBQ Platypus on January 06, 2007, 06:12:54 PM
No, I refuse to take it back.  George Lucas has completely destroyed any of the respect I had for him as a director because of the original trilogy.  He has also cancelled them out on a personal karmic level; this movie makes Jesus cry, and God will make George Lucas pay for this cinematic atrocity.  The movies themselves, however, remain unharmed (except the versions that Lucas has edited.  I STILL haven't bought a single goddamn one of the "remastered" versions.  I'll stick with the VHS, thanks - I'll give you money when you've actually done something worthwhile, George).
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Busyman on January 06, 2007, 10:16:16 PM
I think the only reason some people think they were too harsh was because it was Star Wars. George Lucas, while responsible for Phantom Menace, also made the original trilogy which so many people love. Also, I think many think he redeemed himself by making Sith (I watched it the other day on HBO, and it's a damn good movie IMO)and because of those two things some people think that he should get a "Get out of Jail free" card for Phanton Menace.

But, Phanton Menace was an awful, awful movie. One of the worst I have ever seen. I'd go as far to rank it "up" with the worst of the worst that were done on MST3K. That Lucas made good movies before and after does not mean that people should go easy on him for this one.

I stand by my original belief that the movie got exactly the respect it deserved: NONE.

One more thought: Tonight I listened to the Firewall rifftrax (which I found hilarious) and they savaged the movie the entire time. I think because of people's love for Star Wars, that in this instance the harsh riffs became more noticable hence the complaints.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Pak-Man on January 07, 2007, 12:20:13 AM
But they weren't ONLY Savaging Firewall. I'm fine with an occasional pause to say, "Hey this movie bites." or "This movie doesn't make sense." or "See right there, that's why this movie doesn't work." but the Ep 1 Riff seemed to loose its interactivity with the film at the expense of making broad sweeping generalizations about the movie. There's so much dialogue to play with! So many jokes to be made.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Minnesota on January 07, 2007, 12:36:30 AM
But they weren't ONLY Savaging Firewall. I'm fine with an occasional pause to say, "Hey this movie bites." or "This movie doesn't make sense." or "See right there, that's why this movie doesn't work." but the Ep 1 Riff seemed to loose its interactivity with the film at the expense of making broad sweeping generalizations about the movie. There's so much dialogue to play with! So many jokes to be made.

Although I am a HUGE fan of the episode one riff, I agree with you here... there are several possible riffs at every moment of this film, in fact I would like to suggest another riff for episode one because of its "special" quality
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Busyman on January 07, 2007, 07:06:47 PM
I fadmit to being biased on this matter, since Phanton Menace is my favorite rifftrax to date, but I disagree. I agree that there were more then usual in terms of "this movie sucks" quality, but a lot of that I think is because there are long stretches where nothing is going on. I think they did make plenty of comments that were not of the "This film sucks" variety.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Goshzilla on January 09, 2007, 05:08:59 AM
I pretty much appreciated when a supposedly importantscene is carried out, and Mike tears it down for the facade it is. These include the quotes "You know what I like in my action movies, when characters stop in a hall and discuss trade routes," "You know what I also like in my action movies, dinner conversations," and "YES, speculation over a radio, this is cinematic gold."
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: LadyKenobi on January 09, 2007, 05:05:01 PM
I laughed at those too, because those were funny.  It was when the anger got in the way of the funny (IMHO) that it kind of fell apart for me.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Sharktopus on January 10, 2007, 11:16:29 AM
I laughed at those too, because those were funny.  It was when the anger got in the way of the funny (IMHO) that it kind of fell apart for me.

Yeah, the charm of MST and now RiffTrax has always been the good-naturedness of the jokes. The Phantom Menace Riff was uncharacteristically mean-spirited, and though still funny, felt out of character.

And Kevin's prolonged vomiting just isn't that funny. It's a one-note joke that lasts way too long, like an SNL sketch.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Pak-Man on January 10, 2007, 11:26:46 AM
"Mustn't hate. Mustn't hate."
"At least not so overtly!"
"Yes. Must DISGUISE our hate just a little."

(From MST3K: Final Sacrifice. :^))
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Sharktopus on January 10, 2007, 11:49:02 AM
"Mustn't hate. Mustn't hate."
"At least not so overtly!"
"Yes. Must DISGUISE our hate just a little."

(From MST3K: Final Sacrifice. :^))


Exactly. They were joking about hate, not actually hating. It's a fine line.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: MSTJedi on January 11, 2007, 11:19:31 AM
"Mustn't hate. Mustn't hate."
"At least not so overtly!"
"Yes. Must DISGUISE our hate just a little."

(From MST3K: Final Sacrifice. :^))


Ah, one of my favorite MST3K sketches. And yes, we must make fun of hate, not participate in it. It's one of the things that shows like MST3K and even South Park do so well - pointing out how ridiculous hatred can be.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Johnny_Short_Torso on January 13, 2007, 05:31:15 PM
I think it's also important to say that I was one of the poor dumb sons of guns who stood out in the hot sun for four hours for Phantom Menace tickets way back in 1999... there is nothing they said about this movie that is remotely too harsh.
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: JinglyBells on February 04, 2007, 09:22:23 AM
They could BOTH have REALLY puked through the ENTIRE movie and I would not have deemed it too harsh. As far as I'm concerned, TPM is a decent lightsaber duel with two and a half hours of mind numbing tedium before it. I would imagine that for anyone not overly interested in telekinesis fights, that would have sucked too, and thus the entire movie is a bust. Also they should riff episodes two and three. I can riff those myself without even trying, and I don't have 400 episodes experiece. I HATE those movies. May I also mention that the first three were awsome. Good characters....good acting.......good computer animation....good story....how do you take something that good, when YOU made it, and make three more that suck so bad everyone who watches them wishes the original reels were burning in hell?
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: DeadlyCinema on March 02, 2007, 04:21:32 PM
Believe it or not, I thought some of the most effective riffs from this Rifftrax were the occasional laughs without follow-up jokes. Somehow, the laughing itself said a thousand words. Love them.

Matthew
myspace.com/deadlycinema
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: macleod on March 02, 2007, 08:59:19 PM
"Mustn't hate. Mustn't hate."
"At least not so overtly!"
"Yes. Must DISGUISE our hate just a little."

(From MST3K: Final Sacrifice. :^))


Great episode...Zap Rowsdower right?
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: Pak-Man on March 03, 2007, 01:35:21 AM
That's the one. :^)
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: macleod on March 03, 2007, 08:05:54 AM
Actually I think SW Ep 1 could have used some good hockey hair to spruce it up
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on March 03, 2007, 09:59:47 AM
wasnt chewie sporting hockey hair?
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: macleod on March 03, 2007, 07:16:54 PM
No, I don't think it was quite hoserific enough...he had more of a christian slater hair thing going down
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: DeadlyCinema on March 03, 2007, 10:38:08 PM
Don't worry, the next two "Star Wars" prequels overflow with hockey hair, hope they do a Rifftrax on them!

Matthew
myspace.com/deadlycinema
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: macleod on March 05, 2007, 06:42:30 PM
Hocky hair makes everything seem better




....by comparison ;D
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: DeadlyCinema on March 07, 2007, 07:24:32 PM
Hockey hair is cathartic. Everything's always oooookay.

Matthew
myspace.com/deadlycinema
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: RobtheBarbarian on March 07, 2007, 10:32:44 PM
They most certainly were not being too harsh, thank you very much. I'd forgotten how much this movie truly sucked, probably because I was too young when I saw it (I was left with a vague impression of it being cheap and puerile, though). I saw the RiffTrax version and it all came flodding back... I sat there with a slack-jawed stare that reflected my disbelief that anyone could shift so completely and seamlessly from A New Hope to "meesa called Jar-Jar Binks!".

To me, TPM is like a caricature of everything that was mildly corny and silly about the first three movies magnified by a factor of 100, with every redeeming quality removed. It's more like an amateur (possibly retarded) director with limited knowledge of Star Wars trying to make an imitation movie than an actual genuine Star Wars movie.

Edit: I used to have hockey hair, and it really is kind of theraputic. You can rub your fingers through the thick mat on the top of your head and sort of.... get lost in it.
 
"Well, I feel great! I've never felt so masculine! I feel like Guy Lafleur..."
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: macleod on March 08, 2007, 09:42:50 AM
Hockey hair is cathartic.

Hmm....nice philosophy....was that Aristotle who said that?
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: DeadlyCinema on March 10, 2007, 02:02:08 PM
Nope, Galileo.  ;D

Matthew
myspace.com/deadlycinema
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: macleod on March 10, 2007, 05:41:54 PM
I thought Galileo said "torches,....execution? ....f it...the earth is at the center of your stupid universe"
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on March 10, 2007, 05:57:27 PM
wouldnt you say it too?
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: macleod on March 10, 2007, 05:58:18 PM
wouldnt you say it too?

Yes, yes, I would...but I still think the hocky hair philosophy is an important part of Western History ;D
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on March 10, 2007, 06:03:01 PM
at least we dont wear poofy shirts and frilly collars anymore
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: macleod on March 11, 2007, 06:49:31 AM
ha.....maybe you don't......... :P
Title: Re: Were Mike & Kevin Too Harsh?
Post by: DeadlyCinema on March 12, 2007, 09:45:13 AM
Takes a real man to admit that, heh.

Matthew
myspace.com/deadlycinema