RiffTrax Forum

RiffTrax Discussion => Individual RiffTrax Discussion => Star Wars Ep1 Phantom Menace => Topic started by: dlobro1080 on October 25, 2006, 06:48:41 PM

Title: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 25, 2006, 06:48:41 PM
As seen at the bottom of The Matrix e-mail blast, "That Phantom Menace" is soon to get the RiffTrax treatment.  This is the Holy Grail!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: ScottotD on October 25, 2006, 07:03:35 PM
I bet this has the largest amount of Rifffans who'already own the DVD of any Rifftrack so far.

Haven't actually watched this movie since it was in the cinema, should be a great one.  Is it just Mike?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SaucyRossy on October 25, 2006, 07:12:14 PM
Nope Kevin also. Should be great.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kineticsoul on October 25, 2006, 07:22:21 PM
Can it be true?  IT IS!  This is the greatest moment of my geek life.  My two teenage obcessions meet once and for all!  I'm on the edge of my seat giddy with anticipation.  Can't be upset about this in the least.  What a great time to be alive people.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SaucyRossy on October 25, 2006, 07:24:45 PM
Yes we are in the golden age of geekdom if there ever was one thats for sure.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 25, 2006, 07:46:09 PM
This is going to be a great one.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SaucyRossy on October 25, 2006, 07:52:34 PM
check out the Trailer

http://www.rifftrax.com/flash/Penguin_Trailer.html
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: MrTorso on October 25, 2006, 09:31:10 PM
It should be good! At least I hope so. For me though the Rifftraxs with Kevin have been my least favorite. I really wanted to like Halloween but there were very few parts where I laughed out loud. SW:Ep 1 is a pretty crappy movie so maybe that will do it for me.

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SaucyRossy on October 25, 2006, 09:32:26 PM
It should be good! At least I hope so. For me though the Rifftraxs with Kevin have been my least favorite. I really wanted to like Halloween but there were very few parts where I laughed out loud. SW:Ep 1 is a pretty crappy movie so maybe that will do it for me.



I havent watched any with Kevin yet but tonight I am going to watch the Matrix with him. I have no doubt he will have me laughing alot.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SmilinJackRoss on October 26, 2006, 06:25:57 AM
It should be good! At least I hope so. For me though the Rifftraxs with Kevin have been my least favorite. I really wanted to like Halloween but there were very few parts where I laughed out loud. SW:Ep 1 is a pretty crappy movie so maybe that will do it for me.



EEEEk!  ...so far the Kevin Rifftrax are my favorites.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on October 26, 2006, 06:32:11 AM
What is this Star Wars movie everybody's talking about? I have no recollection of it at all. Is it available on DVD?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 26, 2006, 07:34:34 AM
Oh Holiest of Holies, oh sweet Testament of God's Creation!

Star Wars Episode 1 The Phantom Menace gets Riffed!


I can die now.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Shinigami on October 26, 2006, 07:37:31 AM
This is great, now all we need is Batman and Robin riffed and my life is complete.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: MoralThreat on October 26, 2006, 08:33:37 AM
What's sad is the trailer made more sense then the movie.  Man I hope Mike and Kevin rip this one apart.  I can't wait.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 26, 2006, 08:46:26 AM
I'm glad I joined this site before the sudden influx of nerds this is going to generate.  Well...bigger nerds.  Now I have geek cred.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 08:48:43 AM
"We'll be listening to your riff with great interest!"

-Palpatine
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 26, 2006, 08:54:41 AM
At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have... RIFFAGE!!

 :D
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 26, 2006, 08:56:32 AM
"Now this is pod-casting!"

-Anakin Skywalker
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 08:59:05 AM
"I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to riffing."

-Queen Boy George Amidala
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 26, 2006, 09:01:55 AM
I can't wait! :^)

Now I actually LIKE Episode 1. Sure, it was the weakest of the Star Wars movies, but a Weak Star Wars movie is still better than most movies. :^) Riff it? Go for it! And take on the other 5 while you're at it. :^)

Star Wars fans, I've found, have a sense of humor about our obsession. We mock Hasbro for releasing every pose that Han Solo ever took on, while at the same time making sure we collect every one of those poses. We love it as we tease it, so even those of us who liked Ep 1 should enjoy this Rifftrax.

Color me excited! :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 09:13:10 AM
Not sure if I should start a new thread, but lemme post it here. If you watch the updated trailer...

http://www.rifftrax.com/flash/Penguin_Trailer.html

you'll notice a scene on Coruscant where the air-taxi takes Padm? and her Harajuku girls to a tower. Now this is found on the current DVD, so those who want to watch on their ancient VHS tapes (1999 and up) will have to go and rent the modern (read: revised) Epi 1 DVD.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Cap'n UKRiffer on October 26, 2006, 09:30:13 AM
(http://www.jedidigital.com/images/jar-jar-binks2.jpg)

Me-sa so needed to be riffed on...

I'm hoping if (or more likely WHEN) Lucas gets around to messing about with this trilogy as he did the original, theres a scene of Jar Jar getting the crap kicked out of him... he just so deserves it
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 26, 2006, 09:34:05 AM
Yo, Mod dudes! Since this one is gonna generate a LOT of discussion over the next week, maybe it might behoove all y'all to create an Ep 1 board a little early.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: torgosPizza on October 26, 2006, 09:49:03 AM
What's sad is the trailer made more sense then the movie.  Man I hope Mike and Kevin rip this one apart.  I can't wait.

Oh, they do. Don't worry. :)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 26, 2006, 10:14:38 AM
I have been trying to outsource my workload at home to people that I can trust... so

I am leaving it up to you, the fans, to create a working lightsaber for me. Not joking. Does it look like I'm joking?

Have at it.

http://www.jpartistry.com/pinoyvid.htm

^I am converting these movies to flash vids so it may take a while to play all the way through on your pcs, but it's fun nonetheless ;)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Minnesota on October 26, 2006, 10:46:31 AM
I bet this has the largest amount of Rifffans who'already own the DVD of any Rifftrack so far.


Huh??  I own every Star Wars BUT episode 1... thought this was common...

On a side note, when I do buy episode 1, I will put the dvd on my riff/mst3k shelf and not next to my other Star Wars dvds. Does anyone else here NOT own episode 1?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: MontyServo on October 26, 2006, 10:53:57 AM
I bet this has the largest amount of Rifffans who'already own the DVD of any Rifftrack so far.


Huh??  I own every Star Wars BUT episode 1... thought this was common...

On a side note, when I do buy episode 1, I will put the dvd on my riff/mst3k shelf and not next to my other Star Wars dvds. Does anyone else here NOT own episode 1?

I don't.  But I put it at the top of my Netflix queue as soon I knew it was coming out.  I just got it today.  So I'm ready for next week!!!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 26, 2006, 10:59:26 AM
Just posted an article about it on kungfurodeo.com.  Doing my part to spread the word.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 26, 2006, 10:59:46 AM
Here's a bigger question: Have any Riffaholics not seen Phantom Menace? At all? (I know some of you said you couldn't make it all the way through.)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: MontyServo on October 26, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
Here's a bigger question: Have any Riffaholics not seen Phantom Menace? At all? (I know some of you said you couldn't make it all the way through.)

I've seen it plenty of times (including a Midnight showing on opening day back in 1999 where we stood outside in the hot Florida sun for over 12 hours twice, once to buy the tickets, then again on opening day.)  But I think it has been several years since I have seen it.  Like I said, I don't even have it on DVD.

I actually have come to think that Episode 1 isn't even the worst movie of the prequel trilogy.  That would be Episode II : Attack of the Over the Top, Really Bad CGI.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 11:12:57 AM
I've seen it plenty of times (including a Midnight showing on opening day back in 1999 where we stood outside in the hot Florida sun for over 12 hours twice, once to buy the tickets, then again on opening day.)  But I think it has been several years since I have seen it.  Like I said, I don't even have it on DVD.

I actually have come to think that Episode 1 isn't even the worst movie of the prequel trilogy.  That would be Episode II : Attack of the Over the Top, Really Bad CGI.

I agree with you on that. Ep. II was a little painful to watch, especially with Hayden's acting. Which I think was done with CGI also.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 26, 2006, 11:15:32 AM
I actually have come to think that Episode 1 isn't even the worst movie of the prequel trilogy.  That would be Episode II : Attack of the Over the Top, Really Bad CGI.

I agree with you on that. Ep. II was a little painful to watch, especially with Hayden's acting. Which I think was done with CGI also.


I like to use the old adage: Crap in, Crap out.  It's not like Hayden had Gold to work with...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 26, 2006, 11:39:56 AM
Really? Ep 2 ranks up with the orginal trilogy in my book. It had just the right amount of SW-Style action, some cool revelations, and Yoda letting loose with a lightsaber. Sure, Hayden was a bit over the top in some scenes, but so was Hamill in Empire Strikes Back.
Like father, like son. :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 26, 2006, 11:42:32 AM
Really? Ep 2 ranks up with the orginal trilogy in my book. It had just the right amount of SW-Style action, some cool revelations, and Yoda letting loose with a lightsaber. Sure, Hayden was a bit over the top in some scenes, but so was Hamill in Empire Strikes Back.
Like father, like son. :^)

Or isn't that "Like son, like father"?

But if he's his father, but he's younger than his "son" when he was in the older film but took place after the newer film, then he's older than his father who came after....

Oh no, I've gone crosseyed!   :o
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbasehart on October 26, 2006, 11:44:02 AM
Is it wrong to admit that I don't own any of the Star Wars films on DVD...?

Ebay prices look quite high for Phantom Menance, so I'm not sure if I'll buy or rent this one.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 26, 2006, 11:44:50 AM
Is it wrong to admit that I don't own any of the Star Wars films on DVD...?


Very wrong!   :'(
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 11:45:49 AM
Really? Ep 2 ranks up with the orginal trilogy in my book. It had just the right amount of SW-Style action, some cool revelations, and Yoda letting loose with a lightsaber. Sure, Hayden was a bit over the top in some scenes, but so was Hamill in Empire Strikes Back.
Like father, like son. :^)

I just didn't like the nervous hit-on-Padme speech that Anakin gave in the Bachelor pad.

"Hi, I'm Anakin. I'm your density."

"My what???"

"Oh! I mean, your destiny."

"Awww!"
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 26, 2006, 11:49:02 AM
Yeah, there were the akward love scenes, but then there was the flying-car chase, the tangle with Jango, the nifty-cool-noise-making-space-bomb scene, the first glimmers of the Dark Side in Anakin, the arena battle, Yoda Vs. Dooku, the conveyer belt scene, and so help me, I liked the space diner! :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 26, 2006, 11:51:38 AM
Yeah, there were the akward love scenes, but then there was the flying-car chase, the tangle with Jango, the nifty-cool-noise-making-space-bomb scene, the first glimmers of the Dark Side in Anakin, the arena battle, Yoda Vs. Dooku, the conveyer belt scene, and so help me, I liked the space diner! :^)

Sounds like you've been drinking too much Jawa juice!!   :)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 11:51:55 AM
My fave? Obi-Wan vs. Jango in the asteroid field.

"It's on! It's on like Donkey Kong!"
-Boba Fett
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 26, 2006, 11:52:47 AM
(I'd just like to take a moment to mention that this geek-out is happening on 2 different threads, and if we had a board just for discussing this movie, already, the conversation could be more focused and stuff. :^))

I just think people jaded themselves a bit too much when it comes to the prequels. There's a lot of good stuff in there. :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 11:56:33 AM
No doubt there. I dig the Prequels, but I was born in the 70's, so I'm all about the Old School? Trilogy.
Bring on the Ewoks!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: MontyServo on October 26, 2006, 11:57:06 AM
(I'd just like to take a moment to mention that this geek-out is happening on 2 different threads, and if we had a board just for discussing this movie, already, the conversation could be more focused and stuff. :^))

Good point.  So I'll copy my last comment over to this thread.   ;D

Well I can tell you that the Dallas/Ft. Worth Star Wars community I'm in is all for the idea!

Even though there are a few Jar Jar fans in the group, they still like Rifftrax. So far the response to Rifftrax has been overwhelmingly good, and the buzz is already very high for the Episode 1 Riff.

As hardcore Star Wars fans, we agree that Ep. 1 is the weakest of the series(followed very closely by Ep. 2!), and we can take a joke! For the most part...  ;)


Just in case you're wondering why Ep. 2 is slightly better than Ep. 1, it's 'cause Yoda threw down BIG-TIME!!! Plus, Jar Jar's screen time shrunk drastically.  ;D

Not wanting to geek out about Star Wars here but, Yoda should not have shown his light saber until the Ep. III fight with Palpatine.  It would have made their fight a thousand times better if that were the first time we saw Yoda in a fight.  Of course, I also think there should have only been one prequel movie with the events of Ep. III being the focal point   In fact, I think that if Ep. I and II didn't exist at all, and it was just Episode III you would not have all this hatred of Lucas for "ruining" Star Wars.

Don't get me wrong, each film has their good points and their bad points.

Here's how I'd rate all six films from best to worst:
Empire
A New Hope
Revenge Of The Sith
Return Of The Jedi
Phantom Menace
Attack Of The Clones
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: MontyServo on October 26, 2006, 12:01:03 PM
And I think the mods should go ahead and create a Phantom Menace discussion board and move this thread over to there.  Or at least move this thread when they do open the discussion board.

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 26, 2006, 12:01:38 PM
Ooh. A prequel in the top three. :^) Let's see if I can be as honest with myself...

Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
Star Wars: A New Hope
Star Wars: Phantom Menace

I know it just seems WRONG  to put the first so low on the list, but keep in mind that I like them all a WHOLE LOT, so it's like picking favorite ice cream flavors. It's not that you don't LIKE Rocky Road, but Phish Food has so much more to offer. :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 12:02:51 PM
Here's my hit list:

A New Hope
Empire
Revenge of the Sith
Return of the Jedi
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 26, 2006, 12:10:58 PM
So long as we're sharing lists...


Return of the Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope

Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace


Although Empire is the best of the series, Return has always been my personal favorite. The scenes with the Emperor are second to none, and Luke's final fight with Vader is one of the best moments on film. Ever.

The Death Star explosion in A New Hope is the best lead up and follow through to any explosion in cinema history!

And let's not forget Vader's revelation to Luke in Empire. Another one of the greatest moments in film.


As you can see, the original trilogy holds the best moments, and the highest place of any movie in my book. Even though I really like the prequels, they just don't rank anywhere near the OT.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 26, 2006, 12:23:40 PM
My list:

Empire Strikes Back
Revenge of the Sith
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 26, 2006, 12:27:51 PM
Kodiak's list I'll accept.  The rest of you are bad people.  (I refuse to use an emoticon reflecting my mock-disgust.)

http://www.chefelf.com/starwars/index.php
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 26, 2006, 12:32:21 PM
I don't even hate TPM, but there's something about how out-of-touch it was with SW fans and kids that's kind of amazing.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dignan on October 26, 2006, 12:45:56 PM
I figure if I'm going to start posting here, I might get my first post out of the way in the absolutely geekiest way possible that doesn't involve quoting anything from Monty Python:  ranking the Star Wars films.

So, to that end, best to worst:

The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones

When Revenge of the Sith came out, I liked it.  When I watched it again on DVD...not so much.  It's not that I like The Phantom Menace that much better, but at least with that I can pretend that Liam Neeson is actually playing Briar Gates, the clearly Irish hillbilly brother of Patrick Swayze's big city cop Truman Gates, in Next of Kin.  In this saga of Briar, he has survived his seemingly mortal wounds from Kin and become a wizened monk or something.  It's not a very well-thought out dream, but it does its job.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SaucyRossy on October 26, 2006, 12:57:13 PM
This is easily the one that my friends and I have been waiting for the most. Can't wait.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 26, 2006, 12:58:16 PM
Welcome, dignan!

Y'know, I almost forgot Next of Kin until you mentioned it. I'll stick it back in the memory closet right next to Howard the Duck.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Cap'n UKRiffer on October 26, 2006, 02:24:30 PM
Is it wrong to admit that I don't own any of the Star Wars films on DVD...?


Very wrong!   :'(

I better not say anything then  :-X...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: James of LinHood on October 26, 2006, 02:47:33 PM
I don't even hate TPM, but there's something about how out-of-touch it was with SW fans and kids that's kind of amazing.

I really hate TPM.  Still, even if I back off of my hate and try to watch this movie objectively, it always blows my mind just how far off this movie is compared to the other five.  Its focus seems way off and it feels wrong.  It really doesn't feel like a part of the saga at all.  If you took TPM out of the saga you really wouldn't be missing much of anything.  That's how remote this movie is.  It's a truely bizarre film.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Jeyl on October 26, 2006, 05:34:10 PM
Warning! Warning!

This Rifftax may be somewhat difficult to maintain. Currently, there are already three confirmed versions of this film. The original Theatrical version, the DVD release, and the 2007 DVD release. Since this has mainly been a DVD  depentant type of riffing, I can only assume we'll be doing the first DVD release of Episode one which is a few minutes longer then the theatrical version. I don't know much about the 2007 release, but I do know that Yoda will no longer be featured as a puppet. So any riffs that are aimed towards the puppet Yoda during the riff will probably throw the whole flow right out the window if someone watches the 2007 DVD release.

There is also the danger of the film being either shorter or longer for the 2007. It doesn't seem likely, but since George himself has said he didn't really care about Episode One on the Colbert Report there might be some trimming. There might also be some editions that have yet to surface.

Again, just a little warning. Be sure to post which edition of Episode One you're riffing.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 26, 2006, 06:17:16 PM
I don't even hate TPM, but there's something about how out-of-touch it was with SW fans and kids that's kind of amazing.

I really hate TPM.  Still, even if I back off of my hate and try to watch this movie objectively, it always blows my mind just how far off this movie is compared to the other five.  Its focus seems way off and it feels wrong.  It really doesn't feel like a part of the saga at all.  If you took TPM out of the saga you really wouldn't be missing much of anything.  That's how remote this movie is.  It's a truely bizarre film.

I think it's masturbatory, is the problem.  The senate debates, the 15-minute pod race, the CGI aliens, too much Jar Jar -- too much everything.  By the time Lucas got around to "Sith" -- not sure how you feel about that one, but I love it -- he'd managed to reign in his indulgences and just make a solid action film with some heart.  My 2 cents.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbasehart on October 26, 2006, 06:59:52 PM
An odd question: How long is the Phantom Menace on NTSC DVD's? I need an exact time, seconds included.  A buddy of mine has a region-free version (don't ask where he got it) and I need to know which rifftrax I'll need for it.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Jeyl on October 26, 2006, 07:06:49 PM
I hated Sith and Clones more then Menace. Sith was just too unrealistic in character development. Anakin becomes a Sith in the name of love? Bah!!!! Sith is all about Tyrany, power, and control! How dare Lucas try to make Anakin's grand crusade of murder and betrayal into a sympathetic quest. The only real tragedy in this flick is that they tried to make us care about Anakin as a character when there is no redeeming quality in him at all.

Don't even get me started on the new ending to Jedi. Since when was seeing the spirit of Anakin about connecting two trilogies together instead of focusing on the real issue at hand? Redemption!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Jeyl on October 26, 2006, 07:09:25 PM
An odd question: How long is the Phantom Menace on NTSC DVD's? I need an exact time, seconds included.  A buddy of mine has a region-free version (don't ask where he got it) and I need to know which rifftrax I'll need for it.
Oh no. I've had to endure buying the Region 1 DVD. Please Mike! Don't make me for ANOTHER copy!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: ScottotD on October 26, 2006, 07:45:25 PM
Here's a bigger question: Have any Riffaholics not seen Phantom Menace? At all? (I know some of you said you couldn't make it all the way through.)

I've seen it plenty of times (including a Midnight showing on opening day back in 1999 where we stood outside in the hot Florida sun for over 12 hours twice, once to buy the tickets, then again on opening day.)  But I think it has been several years since I have seen it.  Like I said, I don't even have it on DVD.

I actually have come to think that Episode 1 isn't even the worst movie of the prequel trilogy.  That would be Episode II : Attack of the Over the Top, Really Bad CGI.

I thought Obi-Wan's little mystery movie within a movie (when he finds out about Jango) was the ONLY good thing in any of the new three.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 26, 2006, 08:05:30 PM
I hated Sith and Clones more then Menace. Sith was just too unrealistic in character development. Anakin becomes a Sith in the name of love? Bah!!!! Sith is all about Tyrany, power, and control! How dare Lucas try to make Anakin's grand crusade of murder and betrayal into a sympathetic quest.

Well not to get into a whole thing here, but it's obvious from the get go -- A New Hope -- that Vader is a tragic figure.  A good man who fell from grace; so what's wrong with that fall having to do with him trying to make good ends (saving his wife and child) justify the means (turning to the dark side)?  I thought it worked really, really well.  And I don't think that contradicts the tenets -- "tyranny, power, and control" -- of being a Sith (okay we're getting really geeky here).  Anakin wanted to the power to be able to control things as he saw fit.  And once he achieved that, he became tyrannical.  Remember at the end, how he starts saying he can overthrow the Emperor, and "If you're not with me, you're my enemy."  Power corrupts.  He became a tyrant.  Very Sith-like, methinks.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: starfighter on October 26, 2006, 09:27:21 PM
   I'm another one who needs to know if there is a specific version I need. I've got the OT but avoided this trilogy like the plague, so I hunted around before buying a .50 VHS copy off eBay, so if I do need another copy I'm not out much on this one.  Looking forward to the Rifftrax; I might actually stay awake through the whole movie for the first time.
     I want to add something I found through Neil Gaiman's blog today.  He linked to a piece in Wired magazine where a number of writers were asked to contribute short stories of exactly six words. The relative one in this case is by Steven Meretzky:  Leia: "Baby's yours." Luke: "Bad news..."
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Cambot on October 27, 2006, 12:32:35 AM
Finally, a DVD I already have! This and Road House are the only movies I haven't had to run out to Half Price Books to buy the $2.98 VHS to enjoy.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Jeyl on October 27, 2006, 06:40:30 AM
Quote from: dlobro1080
Power corrupts.  He became a tyrant.  Very Sith-like, methinks.
Oh no. Not if that son of a gun yells "NOOOOOOOOO!!!" and goes to work the next day feeling relaxed and dignified. That Anakin was so dumb.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: James of LinHood on October 27, 2006, 06:46:51 AM
I think it's masturbatory, is the problem.  The senate debates, the 15-minute pod race, the CGI aliens, too much Jar Jar -- too much everything.  By the time Lucas got around to "Sith" -- not sure how you feel about that one, but I love it -- he'd managed to reign in his indulgences and just make a solid action film with some heart.  My 2 cents.

I love Sith too.  It's one of, if not my favorite, Star Wars movies.  I think the prequels got better and better as they were released.  It's almost as if Lucas was slowly getting his head back into Star Wars with each film that was released.

I hated TPM so much that I found a fan edit on the net and downloaded it.  In the version I have they dubbed over Jar Jars voice, made him speak an alien language with subtitles, and changed everything he said.  They also edited out a lot of the scenes that made him look like an idiot.  They turned him into more of a smart ass Han Solo-type character and it actually worked very well.  It was very well made.  Much better than the theatrical release.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: labeth on October 27, 2006, 07:00:04 AM
They seem to be picking on a lot of trilogies lately, which makes me wonder if they have plans to go after their sequels as well. I'd really love to see Attack of the Clones and the rest of the Matrix movies riffed, so if they are, yay for us.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 27, 2006, 07:43:51 AM
Quote from: dlobro1080
Power corrupts.  He became a tyrant.  Very Sith-like, methinks.
Oh no. Not if that son of a gun yells "NOOOOOOOOO!!!" and goes to work the next day feeling relaxed and dignified. That Anakin was so dumb.

I don't think he was relaxed.  He knew the Emperor was lying to him.  "That's impossible -- she was alive, I felt it."  And that scene where he crosses his arms looking out at the Death Star, was not meant to convey him feeling relaxed and dignified, but rather emptiness at what he was left with due to his actions.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 27, 2006, 08:51:35 AM
I haven't read a lot of the Star Wars books, but I did read Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Lord-Darth-Vader-Star/dp/0345477332/sr=1-1/qid=1161964113/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8987434-3011249?ie=UTF8&s=books).  It takes place immediately after Episode III.  It's worth checking out.  The scenes between him and the Emperor are really well-written and interesting.  You see how bitter and resentful he is of Palpatine for leading him to his current condition.  Additionally, we peer into his mind to learn how he had to adjust to living in the suit and having mechanical limbs.  Like I said, I haven't read a lot of books in the series, but this was one of the better ones.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SmilinJackRoss on October 27, 2006, 09:05:16 AM
 I think the prequels got better and better as they were released.

I do too.  My favorite moments in ALL 6 MOVIES are Obi Wan's words to Anikin before and after their lightsaber battle on the fire planet.  Really great stuff.  (Empire is the best movie in the series IMO though)

I hated TPM so much that I found a fan edit on the net and downloaded it.  In the version I have they dubbed over Jar Jars voice, made him speak an alien language with subtitles, and changed everything he said.  They also edited out a lot of the scenes that made him look like an idiot.  They turned him into more of a smart ass Han Solo-type character and it actually worked very well.  It was very well made.  Much better than the theatrical release.

This sounds really interesting, any chance for a link?  (you can PM me if you don't want to post it.)

Also, is there any rumor of a complete box set with all 6 movies coming out?  I don't own any of the movies because I've been holding out for this, and I'm quite surprised that there isn't one yet.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 27, 2006, 09:12:13 AM
I actually have that on VCD. It's called 'The Phantom Edit', and the opening scroll was changed and it pretty much described how much the 'author' of this edit hated the theatrical release and made his own cut.

I'll convert it to Quicktime movie format over the weekend and send you a pm later if you want, SJR.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 27, 2006, 09:21:31 AM
I'd love to see the The Phantom Edit too, if you can PM me the details.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 27, 2006, 09:26:44 AM
I thought Obi-Wan's little mystery movie within a movie (when he finds out about Jango) was the ONLY good thing in any of the new three.

I agree.

"Ah, you're here to see the Clone Army the Jedi ordered?"
"Yyyyes.  I'm here...to see the Clone Army...that we ordered."

I think Ewan McGregor is the unsung hero of the whole series.  He's the only person whose acting, dialogue, and character development was most consistently not horribly conceived.  Except for that "You'll be the death of me" line.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 27, 2006, 09:27:11 AM
If there's anything "good" that came out of the prequelogy, it's that we all have a knew knowledge as to how stubborn and blind George Lucas is! (haha)

But seriously....

If he were to analyze the overall outlook of the original trilogy, he'd see that the better movies were NOT directed by him..... But no, he wanted to make this one COMPLETELY his responsibility....

Now - I LOVE Star Wars, and saw all three prequels at midnight opening day, because the franchise is iconic and the SW universe is wonderful, but holy cow......

The storyline was passable (minus the whole mitochlorean bs) but the /direction/ was SO bad. In film school, we studied Lucas as being the most text-book unoriginal director. If a text book said "During a gunfight, all gunshots should be filmed at medium to close up perspectives" he'd do it..... And look at the acting!!! Just about everyone in those movies has proven themselves as great actors - so what the hell happened?

Now - When I heard rumor that Peter Jackson was going to direct the last two prequels, I damn near fainted. What he did to the land of Middle Earth was amazing, and I could see him actually bringing credibility back to the Skywalker side of things, but alas, my wish was not realized.

If Lucas /hadn't/ directed the prequels, my top chocies of people to take on the task would be:
1.) Peter Jackson - for his ability to enrichen stories with the right amount of seriousness and fantasy elements.
2.) Ridley Scott  - for his shear perfectionism when it comes to EVERYTHING (plus he made his name with sci fi)
3.) Tony Scott - for his Ridley-ness
4.) Spielberg - because as long as he's not /writing/ he has a good eye for Lucas's material (Indy Jones)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 27, 2006, 09:31:09 AM
I'd love to see the The Phantom Edit too, if you can PM me the details.

Wilco roger that.

As far as directors that I'd rather had directed the prequels, just one name comes to mind:

Genndy Tartakovsky.
For a brief animated series, the Clone Wars, he showed the Jedi using their full potential of the Force abilites while also staying true to the SW universe, esp. with humor, emotions, etc...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 27, 2006, 09:33:29 AM

The storyline was passable (minus the whole mitochlorean bs) but the /direction/ was SO bad. In film school, we studied Lucas as being the most text-book unoriginal director. If a text book said "During a gunfight, all gunshots should be filmed at medium to close up perspectives" he'd do it..... And look at the acting!!! Just about everyone in those movies has proven themselves as great actors - so what the hell happened?



I agree.

My two biggest problems with the prequels are:

1. George's Directing: he didn't seem to even try coaxing a memorable performance from anyone. The best actors in the movies are the ones who didn't rely on George's direction to make their character memorable, such as Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, and Liam Neeson.

2. George's writing: I love the storylines, but the dialog was so laughable and boring. No subtlety, no cleverness, nothing akin to the original trilogy. Sad.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 27, 2006, 09:35:27 AM
I'd love to see the The Phantom Edit too, if you can PM me the details.

Wilco roger that.

As far as directors that I'd rather had directed the prequels, just one name comes to mind:

Genndy Tartakovsky.
For a brief animated series, the Clone Wars, he showed the Jedi using their full potential of the Force abilites while also staying true to the SW universe, esp. with humor, emotions, etc...

Good call.

What Lucas' problem was, was that in the original trilogy he viewed the movies not as sci fi movies, but as fantasy movies.

The prequelogy was no doubt a fantasy movie that was barraged by too many sci-fi elements to make it seem more modern and appealing.

My dream director for directing ANY SW movies....

AKIRA KURASAWA
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 27, 2006, 09:36:43 AM
Another beef I had with the prequels was the whole political angle. I understand that the Fall of the Republic had to be told, but it was like watching C-SPAN... but in the cineplex.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: ScottotD on October 27, 2006, 09:37:13 AM
I can forgive pretty much everything about the prequels (the contradictions, the stupid 'comedy', the acting, the fact Anakin was a little kid for no reason at all, Jar Jar, HUGE gaps in it's own logic, etc, etc) except the Midiclorians.

The force is essentially a cross between a virus and fleas.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 27, 2006, 09:41:05 AM
I can forgive pretty much everything about the prequels (the contradictions, the stupid 'comedy', the acting, the fact Anakin was a little kid for no reason at all, Jar Jar, HUGE gaps in it's own logic, etc, etc) except the Midiclorians.

The force is essentially a cross between a virus and fleas.

That's probably the most interesting way I've ever heard that put.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 27, 2006, 09:41:46 AM
Gendy tends to keep the action turned up to 11, which worked great for Clone Wars, but I question his ability to slow things down to forward plot and character development. That said, I urge everyone who hasn't seen them to pick up the Clone Wars DVDs for a truly Star Warsy Experience. They're a little short for what you pay, but you won't feel ripped off.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 27, 2006, 09:43:58 AM

The storyline was passable (minus the whole mitochlorean bs) but the /direction/ was SO bad. In film school, we studied Lucas as being the most text-book unoriginal director. If a text book said "During a gunfight, all gunshots should be filmed at medium to close up perspectives" he'd do it..... And look at the acting!!! Just about everyone in those movies has proven themselves as great actors - so what the hell happened?



I agree.

My two biggest problems with the prequels are:

1. George's Directing: he didn't seem to even try coaxing a memorable performance from anyone. The best actors in the movies are the ones who didn't rely on George's direction to make their character memorable, such as Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, and Liam Neeson.

2. George's writing: I love the storylines, but the dialog was so laughable and boring. No subtlety, no cleverness, nothing akin to the original trilogy. Sad.

Lucas became so paranoid about info-leakage that he stopped doing full script reading sessions, and instead, told the actors the situation and line they were to say on the spot, without explaining it.... Which explains the monster lack of believble acting. And also .... That's just a horrible idea.

Why be paranoid about a series of PREQUELS... I mean....we ALREADY KNOW what is going to happen...

Then there is the dialogue.... what the heck, George? Meesa Jar Jar? And why are those trade fed aliens Japanese? I mean.... The storyline was passable, but the dialogue left no room for decent acting. "I truly, deeply love you." You stole that from a Savage Garden song!!! AAAAH

Now - he could have made the storyline ultimately a million times better if:
- Episode One was completely rewritten without Jar Jar and with MUCH less of the intergalactic politics.
- Episode Two started halfway through Attack of the Clones, and ended at the end of Revenge of the Sith
- Episode Three became the story of Darth Vader hunting down the last of the Jedi, and Yoda/Ben escaping his clutches.

That's just my opinion. The movies should have been less of a sci fi adventure explosion, and more a fantasy that focused on character interaction etc.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 27, 2006, 09:47:14 AM
To quote Servo from 'Cave Dwellers':

"Geez, even Tolkin couldn't follow this plot!"
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 27, 2006, 09:54:00 AM
I can forgive pretty much everything about the prequels (the contradictions, the stupid 'comedy', the acting, the fact Anakin was a little kid for no reason at all, Jar Jar, HUGE gaps in it's own logic, etc, etc) except the Midiclorians.

The force is essentially a cross between a virus and fleas.

Yeah - apparently I can't be a Jedi unless, per some random chance, I have more invisible bacteria floating around in me than other people.....

Technically, if I eat a jedi, his microbeasties are then in me correct? So I guess in order to be a powerful Jedi, you have to eat /other/ Jedi.

Good times.

When they introduced that in Ep One, me and my friend dropped our jaws to the floor. He went so far as to throw popcorn at the screen..... Obi Wan CLEARLY explains in New Hope that the Force is an energy field that binds us all together. NOT something I put medication on my dog for.....
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 27, 2006, 09:57:31 AM
Obi-Wan is from the traditional school of thought, in which the Force is an energy field created by all living things.
Qui-Gon is from the School of Bubba? training, in which the living Force is large and in charge. Belief in midichlorians, symbiosis, saving trees, eating granola bars and licking rivers.

Hippie.

Anyway, Obi-Wan gets props for showing Luke the right way about the Force.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 27, 2006, 10:05:32 AM
A buddy of mine is joining the Franciscan Order.... which is basically the Catholic Jedi. Rosary lightsabers and whatnot ;)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 27, 2006, 10:09:17 AM
The force be with you! (And also with you...)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 27, 2006, 10:35:58 AM
I would be very upset if Mike didn't add a new line about learning something from his Jedi Bullshit class.

 ;)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jedi2187 on October 27, 2006, 10:52:55 AM
The force be with you! (And also with you...)

"The blood of Yoda and the body of Anakin will be dispersed shortly. Now let us pass around the money basket..."
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Michel Weisnor on October 27, 2006, 11:14:21 AM
Don't forget to riff Phantom Menace in HD on Cinemax.

http://www.cinemax.com/starwars/poster.html 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on October 27, 2006, 12:15:34 PM
finally the healing can begin.  i seriously havent been able to watch the original three movies after watching phantom menace.  :(  i miss them but its a dark place now that its linked with jar jar.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Tarantulas on October 27, 2006, 12:16:52 PM
I can forgive pretty much everything about the prequels (the contradictions, the stupid 'comedy', the acting, the fact Anakin was a little kid for no reason at all, Jar Jar, HUGE gaps in it's own logic, etc, etc) except the Midiclorians.

The force is essentially a cross between a virus and fleas.

Yeah - apparently I can't be a Jedi unless, per some random chance, I have more invisible bacteria floating around in me than other people.....

Technically, if I eat a jedi, his microbeasties are then in me correct? So I guess in order to be a powerful Jedi, you have to eat /other/ Jedi.

Good times.

When they introduced that in Ep One, me and my friend dropped our jaws to the floor. He went so far as to throw popcorn at the screen..... Obi Wan CLEARLY explains in New Hope that the Force is an energy field that binds us all together. NOT something I put medication on my dog for.....

I like this concept of zombie Jedi...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SaucyRossy on October 27, 2006, 12:29:12 PM
finally the healing can begin.  i seriously havent been able to watch the original three movies after watching phantom menace.  :(  i miss them but its a dark place now that its linked with jar jar.

I can watch them just fine after I ritualistically burned Episode One.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Argo-Puppy on October 27, 2006, 02:08:17 PM
I dunno, Episode 1 was my first introduction into the true Star Wars community so it holds a lot of good memories. There was a really big convention with a lot of Star Wars people to sign autographs. As part of a package deal, you got free tickets to see the movie, in a PACKED theater. The people were cheering and really got into the movie. I think it was excitement about seeing it on the screen rather than the movie itself.

After the excitement wore off and I watched it again, gaaa I think I saw this movie in the theaters three times, I began to realize how yucky it really was. I'm looking forward to this Rifftrax!  :D
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 27, 2006, 02:15:17 PM
Yeah - opposite for me. I saw it in theaters and the mood got VERY somber.... like we were at a memorial service....

Then after watching it again, I warmed up to it more.

I like to imagine the prequels as being exactly what Lucas said they were - Simply a device to make more money to work on different films in the future...
(Now that's true artistry....)

We always have hope in the last two sequel trilogies being produced, and the ever-popular Star Wars vs. Star Trek movie that will most likely be directed by a retarded chimpanzee-orangutan hybrid.

And while we're venting, can I just say that specifically for Episode One, I HATED how EVERYTHING valuable that happened in the movie was on accident.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Tarantulas on October 27, 2006, 02:19:04 PM
I (like many others) went to a midnight show...

I remember being so pissed by the pod scene that I couldn't see straight... then a raccoon decided that right then would be the opportune time to commit suicide on the power transformer out back.   Stupid nature!

I went into work late the next day after catching a special viewing for the legion of pissed off people who got shafted the night before.

Generally the feeling waiting out front to be seated was that people did like what they had seen up to that point...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Argo-Puppy on October 27, 2006, 02:20:54 PM
 :D Well, the movie was after a full day of being at the convention so maybe it was that?

Tarantulas - Wow, now THAT'S a story to tell the grandkids!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 27, 2006, 02:34:55 PM
I (like many others) went to a midnight show...

I remember being so pissed by the pod scene that I couldn't see straight... then a raccoon decided that right then would be the opportune time to commit suicide on the power transformer out back.   Stupid nature!

I went into work late the next day after catching a special viewing for the legion of pissed off people who got shafted the night before.

Generally the feeling waiting out front to be seated was that people did like what they had seen up to that point...

I have a confession....I sent DaPenguin out to kill that Raccoon in an attempt to wave the unhappiness you were bound to feel afterwards.... I'm sorry

What other movies have really pissed me off lately because they promised so much but yielded so little...

- Ridley Scott's "Kingdom of Heaven" was nothing more than a terrorist recruitment video (Though the director's cut is fantastic).
- "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" was like staring at a censored porn banner on a Warez site for two hours.
- "National Treasure" was alright at first, but now I think I should take the script, send it to Dan Brown so he can write a book out of it, and then market it to middle America so that a bunch of idiots who have never read before can think that it is true and that they're smart.
- Bertolucci's "The Dreamers" succeeded in adding to my contempt for snobby Parisians, but failed to convince me that Jimmy Hendrix is the solution to war.
- "Y Tu Mama Tambien" was pretty.... graphic?

Other than those movies, my theater-going experience over the past few years was pretty decent, providing me with half-gay pirates, ring-hating midgets, and tons of Ben Stiller idiot-laugh-em-ups.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Bob on October 27, 2006, 03:23:09 PM
I have a feeling that Mike and Kevin will find the pod racing sequence even more annoying and slow than the space fights in "Prince of Space".

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 27, 2006, 04:24:44 PM
I'm gonna stick my neck out again and say I liked the Pod Races. :^) I thought it was an awesome, high speed race scene. Of course, I was always a sucker for the speeder bike scene in ROTJ, so I guess I just digs me some fast hovering action. :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on October 27, 2006, 09:22:03 PM
may i please be the first to say go get your self a copy of ben hur pak man, or forever hang your head in shame.  Ill admit that its damned slow movie, but that one scene is so ridiculously amazing that it really needs to be seen. 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: TOR on October 27, 2006, 10:54:26 PM
Tor happy part of riff trax! I go kill someone now for no reason
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 28, 2006, 12:14:31 AM
may i please be the first to say go get your self a copy of ben hur pak man, or forever hang your head in shame.  Ill admit that its damned slow movie, but that one scene is so ridiculously amazing that it really needs to be seen. 
Got it. Seen it. The Pod Race is a definite homage. :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Edward J Grug III on October 28, 2006, 01:02:41 AM
Has a date for this one been announced?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: WouTar on October 28, 2006, 03:59:32 AM

What other movies have really pissed me off lately because they promised so much but yielded so little...

- "National Treasure" was alright at first, but now I think I should take the script, send it to Dan Brown so he can write a book out of it, and then market it to middle America so that a bunch of idiots who have never read before can think that it is true and that they're smart.

It's funny because it's true.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbasehart on October 28, 2006, 05:29:16 AM
Has a date for this one been announced?

I think I saw 1st of November written somewhere.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jammindude on October 28, 2006, 09:27:16 AM
I think the original thread said Monday the 29th????

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 28, 2006, 09:40:05 AM
Nope.

November 1.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on October 28, 2006, 06:08:38 PM
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

At last.  Oh, Mike, thank you.  One down, two to go.

Quote
you'll notice a scene on Coruscant where the air-taxi takes Padm? and her Harajuku girls to a tower. Now this is found on the current DVD, so those who want to watch on their ancient VHS tapes (1999 and up) will have to go and rent the modern (read: revised) Epi 1 DVD.

Truly, I have found my people.  Especially you, J-Proof, because I was nodding my head the entire time I was reading your "other movies" list.

Is anybody else sucking it up and shelling it out for the un-batshit-insane-Lucas DVD versions of the original trilogy?  That he should have released with apostate redigitized versions in the first place?  I have ANH so far, because in the end, I am, in fact, his bitch.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 29, 2006, 12:40:30 AM
may i please be the first to say go get your self a copy of ben hur pak man, or forever hang your head in shame.  Ill admit that its damned slow movie, but that one scene is so ridiculously amazing that it really needs to be seen. 

Ben Hur is one of my favorite movies. You know, they had miles worth of film footage of that chariot race sequence.... Now - Heston is arguably one of the very best actors, or one of the very worst, but I still loves me that movie!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on October 29, 2006, 01:06:58 AM
Heston is arguably one of the very best actors, or one of the very worst, but I still loves me that movie!

Charlton Heston is a great actor the way Plan 9 is a great movie. He's right up there with Adam West and the Shatner: The Holy Trinity of Ham.

Is anybody else sucking it up and shelling it out for the un-batshit-insane-Lucas DVD versions of the original trilogy?  That he should have released with apostate redigitized versions in the first place?  I have ANH so far, because in the end, I am, in fact, his bitch.

Not until my well-worn THX edition VHS copies become one with the force. I just can't bring myself to buy the special* editions again just to get the original versions, especially when they're untouched to the point of having the old substandard sound mixes. Release them alone George, and maybe I'll think about it. I'm sure there'll eventually be some 9+ disc deluxe boxset that I'll be horked into buying some day.

*Special in the way the kid down the street who wears a helmet everywhere he goes is special
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: King Rygar on October 29, 2006, 06:46:06 AM
Not only did my jaw drop to the floor when I found out about the Episode I Rifftrax coming up, I totally lost it when I realized I already own the dvd! The Fifth element was the only other one so far that I already owned.

I suffered great humiliation the other day when I bought The Matrix, Cocktail, and Top Gun all at the same time. Not to mention the dignity I lost when I bought xXx. I took pride in being the only person I know who hadn't seen that movie. Now I own it. And I am ashamed!  ;D
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on October 29, 2006, 07:09:27 AM
Quote
Not until my well-worn THX edition VHS copies become one with the force
.

Oh, but they're only available for a limited! time!  George needs a new flannel shirt.

I will say, however, in Ep1's defense, that I think it contains the best lightsaber battle in all six films.  That John Williams wasn't at least nominated for "Duel of the Fates" was a crime.

And yet... JarJar.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 29, 2006, 07:44:51 AM
I suffered great humiliation the other day when I bought The Matrix, Cocktail, and Top Gun all at the same time.

Since when is The Matrix a bad movie?  Yeah, the sequels are a little ponderous and un-crowd pleasing (the bad guys don't die at the end!), but the original is a pretty great movie.  Cocktail and Top Gun, yeah, that'll garner some humiliation.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 29, 2006, 07:47:59 AM
Quote

Is anybody else sucking it up and shelling it out for the un-batshit-insane-Lucas DVD versions of the original trilogy?  That he should have released with apostate redigitized versions in the first place?  I have ANH so far, because in the end, I am, in fact, his bitch.

Not me.  I'm done giving him my money for stuff I already bought 20 times, especially since there was no remastering.  When the 30th Anniversary mega box set comes out, I might be tempted to get that if there's enough bonus stuff packed in.  Plus I hear they're getting rid of that awful Yoda puppet from Episode 1 and putting in the great CGI Yoda.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on October 29, 2006, 07:55:36 AM
Oh, but they're only available for a limited! time!  George needs a new flannel shirt.

Yeah, limited to only ten bazillion copies. I love how George always makes appearances dressed like Michael Moore's slightly better-dressed cousin when he's just a few bucks shy of buying the moon. Or is it a space station?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Rufus T on October 29, 2006, 08:32:27 AM
This is going to be an awesome rifftrax.

(http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/04-28-06-movies/DrinkMoreBeer.jpg)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SmilinJackRoss on October 29, 2006, 09:50:38 AM
I just cannot watch this movie straight through in one sitting.  I tried on friday night, but to no avail.  One thing that really bothers me:

At the end lightsaber battle, when they get caught in those red forcefield things, Obi Wan is back farther than Qui Gon and Maul, and Obi Wan can't quite catch up once the forcefields came down.  But in the beginning of the movie you see these two Jedi's run away from those machine-gun robots with some kind of "super speed" jedi powers.  Why didn't Obi Wan use those powers to get through those forcefields?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: jammindude on October 29, 2006, 10:07:55 AM
I just cannot watch this movie straight through in one sitting.  I tried on friday night, but to no avail.  One thing that really bothers me:

At the end lightsaber battle, when they get caught in those red forcefield things, Obi Wan is back farther than Qui Gon and Maul, and Obi Wan can't quite catch up once the forcefields came down.  But in the beginning of the movie you see these two Jedi's run away from those machine-gun robots with some kind of "super speed" jedi powers.  Why didn't Obi Wan use those powers to get through those forcefields?


You got me there....I've seen that movie so many times I've almost memorized it....and I've never seen this "super speed" that you speak of...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on October 29, 2006, 12:24:34 PM
The superspeed is seen at the very beginning of the film, when they're running from the droidikas after escaping the poison gas.

How much does it bother you that I've already had this discussion about the use of the Jedi speed during the lightsaber battle?  The most satisfactory explanation I've heard is as follows:  1) It takes a tremendous amount of energy to run at "Jedi speed." 2) As a Padawan, Obi-Wan didn't yet have the skeelz to properly budget that energy while in the midst of a very physical battle. 3)  I am a hopless, hopeless dork.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: zyphryn on October 29, 2006, 12:47:54 PM
What's the big deal?  I haven't seen any of the Star War movies-- this will be the first one I ever saw.  In fact, it was the only way I would ever see one. 

Again, I ask: What's the big deal??
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: fishbulb on October 29, 2006, 12:51:39 PM
What's the big deal?  I haven't seen any of the Star War movies-- this will be the first one I ever saw.  In fact, it was the only way I would ever see one. 

Again, I ask: What's the big deal??

Me, too.  It's just another movie.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SmilinJackRoss on October 29, 2006, 01:19:44 PM
What's the big deal?  I haven't seen any of the Star War movies-- this will be the first one I ever saw.  In fact, it was the only way I would ever see one. 

Again, I ask: What's the big deal??

You at least must be aware that Star Was has some of the most avid fans for any movie series, right?  and that Phantom Menace is a much debated movie in that community, right?  There's your answer.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SmilinJackRoss on October 29, 2006, 01:25:34 PM

You got me there....I've seen that movie so many times I've almost memorized it....and I've never seen this "super speed" that you speak of...

Go to ~7:12 in the movie, right after they try melting the blast doors with the lightsaber.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: zyphryn on October 29, 2006, 01:28:44 PM
What's the big deal?  I haven't seen any of the Star War movies-- this will be the first one I ever saw.  In fact, it was the only way I would ever see one. 

Again, I ask: What's the big deal??

You at least must be aware that Star Was has some of the most avid fans for any movie series, right?  and that Phantom Menace is a much debated movie in that community, right?  There's your answer.

It does?  I am not really aware of this avidness.  Why is the "Phantom Menace" much-debated in whatever community you are talking about?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Natureboy on October 29, 2006, 01:50:36 PM
Phantom Menace is much debated because it appeared Lucas was more interested in marketing the film to children then he was making a movie that would please his entire audience.  This is how George tries to explain away the JarJar character,  Can we all cry bullshit?

The DVD release with the extra long and boring announcer of the POD race naming EVERY racer was nothing more than an attempt by Lucas to sell more toys......

I am a long time Star Wars fan.....but this film has annoyed the hell out of me from the Big Screen to the DVD.....Riff away!

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SmilinJackRoss on October 29, 2006, 01:54:27 PM
You're not aware of the avidness?  Did you not read the previous 8 pages in this thread? 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: MontyServo on October 29, 2006, 02:20:18 PM
What is this Star Wars??

If it is from the television, then I would not know what it is.  I don't watch television.  I don't even own a television.  Notice, I said television and not "TV".  Because "TV" is a nickname, and nicknames are for friends, and television is no friend of mine.

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/218509/snapshot20061029171452.jpg)

I only watch foreign films.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: ScottotD on October 29, 2006, 03:11:17 PM
How have you not seen Star Wars? are you pretty young or have you avoided them on purpose?

What is this Star Wars??

If it is from the television, then I would not know what it is.  I don't watch television.  I don't even own a television.  Notice, I said television and not "TV".  Because "TV" is a nickname, and nicknames are for friends, and television is no friend of mine.

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/218509/snapshot20061029171452.jpg)

I only watch foreign films.

hahahahahahahaha.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: zyphryn on October 29, 2006, 03:16:14 PM
What is this Star Wars??

If it is from the television, then I would not know what it is.  I don't watch television.  I don't even own a television.  Notice, I said television and not "TV".  Because "TV" is a nickname, and nicknames are for friends, and television is no friend of mine.

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/218509/snapshot20061029171452.jpg)

I only watch foreign films.

This makes my post worthwhile.  Thank you, Mr. Show!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbakasan on October 29, 2006, 03:44:27 PM
Ya' know zyphryn, if you don't know common cultural things, like for instance Star Wars is popular, then how do understand any of the riffs on the rifftrax?  The majority of the riffs are based around references to popular (and not so popular) American culture.  Maybe you were joking and I somehow missed it.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: BathTub on October 29, 2006, 04:41:11 PM
of course he is.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 29, 2006, 06:06:37 PM
What is this Star Wars??

If it is from the television, then I would not know what it is.  I don't watch television.  I don't even own a television.  Notice, I said television and not "TV".  Because "TV" is a nickname, and nicknames are for friends, and television is no friend of mine.

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/218509/snapshot20061029171452.jpg)

I only watch foreign films.

Mr. Show forever!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbakasan on October 29, 2006, 08:21:13 PM
of course he is.

Well, you never know.  He does have a Nietzche quote...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 30, 2006, 01:31:46 AM
I just cannot watch this movie straight through in one sitting.  I tried on friday night, but to no avail.  One thing that really bothers me:

At the end lightsaber battle, when they get caught in those red forcefield things, Obi Wan is back farther than Qui Gon and Maul, and Obi Wan can't quite catch up once the forcefields came down.  But in the beginning of the movie you see these two Jedi's run away from those machine-gun robots with some kind of "super speed" jedi powers.  Why didn't Obi Wan use those powers to get through those forcefields?

Because the script tells them not to   ;)

Remember, Qui-Gon had to die!

The superspeed is seen at the very beginning of the film, when they're running from the droidikas after escaping the poison gas.

How much does it bother you that I've already had this discussion about the use of the Jedi speed during the lightsaber battle?  The most satisfactory explanation I've heard is as follows:  1) It takes a tremendous amount of energy to run at "Jedi speed." 2) As a Padawan, Obi-Wan didn't yet have the skeelz to properly budget that energy while in the midst of a very physical battle. 3)  I am a hopless, hopeless dork.

Welcome to the club, darlin'!!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on October 30, 2006, 02:50:20 AM
The superspeed is seen at the very beginning of the film, when they're running from the droidikas after escaping the poison gas.

Lucas and ingenius sound designer Ben Burtt even slipped in a faint whoosh-into-sonic boom sound effect when they make like the Flash there. Possibly the second goofiest sound effect in a major motion picture after the sublimely stupid bowling pin sound in Matrix Reloaded, quite possibly the silliest movie ever made that doesn't feature Leslie Nielsen.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 30, 2006, 08:59:05 AM
I'm also curious as to how TPM "ruined the franchise". The movie made $430 million dollars domestically and the following episodes also made well over $300 million. I agree that financial success doesn't equal creative merit (see "Titanic") but it's not as though people stopped going to see Star Wars after it came out. TPM also got more than 60% rating on rottentomatoes.com?not great, but better than a lot of movies. (RottenTomatoes has a really interesting article on how the prequels were actually much better reviewed overall than any of the movies of the original trilogy.)

It's interesting that a film so many people declared a failure had the success it had. If people really hated it so much would they have seen it multiple times (the only way any movie earns more than $400 million)? Or bothered going to see CLONES or SITH?

I know it's become popular to bash the prequels but something doesn't add up here?I don't know about you guys but I don't go to sequels (or prequels) of movies I hate.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on October 30, 2006, 09:18:19 AM
"Ruined" isn't really the right word, but the prequels - especially Ep I - certainly tarnished the franchise. Can you watch the original trilogy without that little thought in the back of your head that the scary mofo in the black helmet is really that whiny little "Are you an angel?" twirp?

One could argue, though, that The Matrix Reloaded ruined that franchise. I know more than one person who refused to see Revolutions after the meteroic letdown of Reloaded.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 30, 2006, 09:19:46 AM
"Ruined" isn't really the right word, but the prequels - especially Ep I - certainly tarnished the franchise. Can you watch the original trilogy without that little thought in the back of your head that the scary mofo in the black helmet is really that whiny little "Are you an angel?" twirp?

One could argue, though, that The Matrix Reloaded ruined that franchise.

Reloaded was terrible imho. And yes - tarnished the franchise it did. But thankfully - cuz who wants a bunch of kids walking around in leather trenchcoats and sunglasses all the time anyway? =)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on October 30, 2006, 09:24:41 AM
I'm also curious as to how TPM "ruined the franchise". The movie made $430 million dollars domestically and the following episodes also made well over $300 million. I agree that financial success doesn't equal creative merit (see "Titanic") but it's not as though people stopped going to see Star Wars after it came out. TPM also got more than 60% rating on rottentomatoes.com?not great, but better than a lot of movies. (RottenTomatoes has a really interesting article on how the prequels were actually much better reviewed overall than any of the movies of the original trilogy.)

It's interesting that a film so many people declared a failure had the success it had. If people really hated it so much would they have seen it multiple times (the only way any movie earns more than $400 million)? Or bothered going to see CLONES or SITH?

I know it's become popular to bash the prequels but something doesn't add up here?I don't know about you guys but I don't go to sequels (or prequels) of movies I hate.

I think the hope installed within us from the original trilogy was the reason for the success of all three prequels. And yes, the prequels were a gigantic financial success, but it's the opinions of the fans that matter in the end as to whether or not a movie is "good." Now - my dad, for instance, wanted to see all three prequels at the theater because he loved the original trilogy. He's in no way a "super" fan, just a fan, and he still loves to make fun of the prequels. Most super fans do too. The "success" of the prequels was nto fro mthe prequels themselves, but from the love that everyone has for the original trilogy.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbakasan on October 30, 2006, 09:37:41 AM
I think the hope installed within us from the original trilogy was the reason for the success of all three prequels. And yes, the prequels were a gigantic financial success, but it's the opinions of the fans that matter in the end as to whether or not a movie is "good." Now - my dad, for instance, wanted to see all three prequels at the theater because he loved the original trilogy. He's in no way a "super" fan, just a fan, and he still loves to make fun of the prequels. Most super fans do too. The "success" of the prequels was nto fro mthe prequels themselves, but from the love that everyone has for the original trilogy.

I totally agree with you on this.  As a kid I loved Star Wars, but when Episode 1 came out I just stopped caring about Star Wars.  For me it really did "ruin" the franchise.  While I still think the original trilogy is good, they will never have the same potency they once did.  The special editions of Star Wars set the ground work for me to become apathetic about Star Wars and Episodes 1 and 2 effectively finished the job.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 30, 2006, 10:09:42 AM
"Ruined" isn't really the right word, but the prequels - especially Ep I - certainly tarnished the franchise. Can you watch the original trilogy without that little thought in the back of your head that the scary mofo in the black helmet is really that whiny little "Are you an angel?" twirp?

One could argue, though, that The Matrix Reloaded ruined that franchise. I know more than one person who refused to see Revolutions after the meteroic letdown of Reloaded.

I used the word "ruined" because that's how TPM is described in the RiffTrax "About" section for the movie (albeit for comedic purposes).

The Matrix sequels were not only critical failures but also financial disappointments as well. The same just can't be said for the prequels.

And I personally don't buy the "people still had good feelings about the original movies so they kept going to see the prequels" argument. You don't keep going to see movies that you believe to be getting progressively worse?I don't anyway. I hated "The Matrix" so I didn't bother with it's two sequels. I didn't like the direction Peter Jackson took LOTR so I didn't bother with "Return of the King", etc.

I'm not saying people loved everything about the prequels but obviously the movies weren't all bad or they wouldn't have been so outrageously successful. That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on October 30, 2006, 10:18:50 AM
And I personally don't buy the "people still had good feelings about the original movies so they kept going to see the prequels" argument. You don't keep going to see movies that you believe to be getting progressively worse?I don't anyway. I hated "The Matrix" so I didn't bother with it's two sequels. I didn't like the direction Peter Jackson took LOTR so I didn't bother with "Return of the King", etc.

Well, personally, the good faith earned by my enjoying the first Matrix, even after hating the second, was at least half of why I bothered to see the third installment. The other half being morbid curiosity over "Where they hell were they going with this?" The same thing with Phantom Menace.

I'm curious what you disliked so much about LOTR that you couldn't bring yourself to watch the whole thing. (I can't help but consider it one really long movie.) As someone who absolutely adored it, I've yet to hear a suitable explanation for someone hating it. (And I don't consider "They left out Tom Bombadil!" as suitable. It's an adaptation.)

P.S. Apparently I am now a "senior member." Does that mean I have to pull my pants way up over my gut and complain about kids playing on my lawn?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Cap'n UKRiffer on October 30, 2006, 11:16:28 AM
P.S. Apparently I am now a "senior member." Does that mean I have to pull my pants way up over my gut and complain about kids playing on my lawn?

And tell us stories of the good old days when you didn't have to lock your doors and MTV actually showed music videos...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: James of LinHood on October 30, 2006, 11:22:46 AM
The Matrix sequels were not only critical failures but also financial disappointments as well.

Wrong.  According to BoxOfficeMojo.com:

Matrix Reloaded - Cost:  $150 million
                         Worldwide gross:  $738 million

Matrix Revlolutions - Cost:  $150 million
                             Worldwide gross:  $424 million

I'm not sure if I'd call those last two movies financial dissapointments.  Especially since those numbers don't include DVD sales/rentals and that they were both rated R.

I don't know about you guys but I don't go to sequels (or prequels) of movies I hate.

I hated Phantom Menace and I still went to Clones and Sith.  Why?  Because the spoilers I read made those movies sound much better than Phantom Menace (and they were).  

Phantom Menace did tarnish the saga though.  If Phantom Menace had been any good then I would have never had to read the spoilers for the sequels in the first place.  So, I'm glad Phantom Menace is being riffed.  If there's a big budget movie out there that deserves a verbal ass kicking, it's Phantom Menace.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 30, 2006, 11:26:02 AM
And I personally don't buy the "people still had good feelings about the original movies so they kept going to see the prequels" argument. You don't keep going to see movies that you believe to be getting progressively worse?I don't anyway. I hated "The Matrix" so I didn't bother with it's two sequels. I didn't like the direction Peter Jackson took LOTR so I didn't bother with "Return of the King", etc.

Well, personally, the good faith earned by my enjoying the first Matrix, even after hating the second, was at least half of why I bothered to see the third installment. The other half being morbid curiosity over "Where they hell were they going with this?" The same thing with Phantom Menace.

I'm curious what you disliked so much about LOTR that you couldn't bring yourself to watch the whole thing. (I can't help but consider it one really long movie.) As someone who absolutely adored it, I've yet to hear a suitable explanation for someone hating it. (And I don't consider "They left out Tom Bombadil!" as suitable. It's an adaptation.)

P.S. Apparently I am now a "senior member." Does that mean I have to pull my pants way up over my gut and complain about kids playing on my lawn?

Mainly I thought the LOTR films lacked the charm and tone of the novel. I understand certain things have to be omitted for the sake of brevity (Tom Bombadil, etc.) but the feeling just wasn't there for me. Where were the ballads and merriment? The novel wasn't all darkness and wraiths and epic battles.

 LOTR used to have sort of an underground, cult-following sort of feeling that was totally lost as soon as the movies came out. Maybe that's why I object to the movies more than anything else?I just miss the old days when it wasn't an enormous movie franchise.

Frankly I didn't like Peter Jackson or his co-writer wife's attitude about the material either. In one of the special features on the Fellowship DVD I remember hearing them almost bashing Tolkien and saying he "dropped the ball" when it came to the Arwen/Aragorn romance and that's why they played that up.  Excuse me? Who are you people? You made low budget New Zealand schlock and puppet porn and now you think Tolkien didn't know what he was doing so you put in a completely unnecessary romantic subplot into your adaptation. Uh-huh.

There were some environmentalist political undertones in TWO TOWERS that I didn't like as well.

The films are techinically very well made and I don't ferociously hate them or anything. I just don't like the interpretation I guess.

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on October 30, 2006, 11:39:30 AM
Matrix Reloaded - Cost:  $150 million
                         Worldwide gross:  $738 million

Matrix Revlolutions - Cost:  $150 million
                             Worldwide gross:  $424 million

But notice the $314 million drop off? Assuming an average ticket price of $8, that means that over 39 million people were so turned off by Reloaded that they said "Screw it," to Revolutions. Yeah, it made money, but I bet the suits at WB were still pretty miffed about that.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 30, 2006, 12:23:06 PM

There were some environmentalist political undertones in TWO TOWERS that I didn't like as well.

Weren't there environmentalist political undertones in Two Towers BEFORE PJ got his hands on it? :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Msampo on October 30, 2006, 12:52:19 PM
I think the hope installed within us from the original trilogy was the reason for the success of all three prequels. And yes, the prequels were a gigantic financial success, but it's the opinions of the fans that matter in the end as to whether or not a movie is "good." Now - my dad, for instance, wanted to see all three prequels at the theater because he loved the original trilogy. He's in no way a "super" fan, just a fan, and he still loves to make fun of the prequels. Most super fans do too. The "success" of the prequels was nto fro mthe prequels themselves, but from the love that everyone has for the original trilogy.

I totally agree with you on this.  As a kid I loved Star Wars, but when Episode 1 came out I just stopped caring about Star Wars.  For me it really did "ruin" the franchise.  While I still think the original trilogy is good, they will never have the same potency they once did.  The special editions of Star Wars set the ground work for me to become apathetic about Star Wars and Episodes 1 and 2 effectively finished the job.

I've always felt that one of the key issues between Lucas the fanbase was the amount of time that elapsed between Jedi and TPM. Those intervening years gave the fanbase so much time to take the Star Wars universe in their own direction. The novels and the advent of the internet accellerated the process. By the time TPM arrived, the fanbase felt the Star Wars universe, as THEY has spent years envisioning it, was THEIRS. And they just assumed the Lucas was on the same page. When they heard a new movie was coming, they simply assumed it would take them seamlessly into the oh-so-serious, battle-hardened adult world that they had spent all those years building. Instead, they were confronted with a story that, while absorbing in some spots, was often flabby and confusing...and, worst of all, apparently aimed at the 7-year-olds in the audience. And when it wasn't entertaining the kiddies, it was introducing the opening gambits of an achingly gradual, wheels-within-wheels political/military/spiritual power-grab strategy that would not even become perceptible, much less come to fruition, for two more films. Tough to take. In short, it was clear to the fanbase, as they walked out of the theater, that Lucus did not understand what they thought of as THEIR world at all. In two hours, Lucas went from godhead to goat.
Ultimately, Lucas mostly won them back, by giving them a wonderful gift: The Clone War itself. The movies only show a few of the most momentous parts of what was a long and bloody war in which both sides won brilliant tactical victories. The animated series filled in some of the structure...but the rest of was left to the fanbase: a galaxy at war in which to write their own histories and exploits. Geek heaven. :-)

My personal opinion is that Lucas' biggest mistake in the second trilogy was not doing what he did in the first trilogy: delegating extensively. Quite frankly, George Lucas is a terrible dialog writer. And as a director, he's only really good at car chases. He should have sketched out the story but had more talented writers and directors do the actual work. TPM could have been tightened and enlivened. A better director might have gotten some decent performances out of the romantic leads in Episode Two (both of whom were uniformly horrible, though both are talented actors). Writers and directors who are, or at least understand, women could have Amidala something to do in the third film, besides look worried and die. But no, Lucas doggedly insisted on writing and directing, dragging what might have been truly marvelous films through keyhole of his limited vision, and, frankly, talent. Lucas has only himself to blame and TPM, as the slogan says, has it coming.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Jeyl on October 30, 2006, 12:55:53 PM
I personally thought that Episodes One and Two of the Star Wars prequal trilogy were a lot worse then Episode One. The way they made Boba Fett become part of a huge turning point annoyed me because it was only because Boba was so popular, and that Chewie cameo in Revenge of the Sith goes no where and does nothing. And all of Revenge of the Sith was bad in that Anakin joined the Dark Side in the name of love and not tyrany the way we all thought he did.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 30, 2006, 12:57:42 PM
A better director might have gotten some decent performances out of the romantic leads in Episode Two (both of whom were uniformly horrible, though both are talented actors). Writers and directors who are, or at least understand, women could have Amidala something to do in the third film, besides look worried and die.


You mean, Padme... dies??

...

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: James of LinHood on October 30, 2006, 01:21:21 PM

There were some environmentalist political undertones in TWO TOWERS that I didn't like as well.

Weren't there environmentalist political undertones in Two Towers BEFORE PJ got his hands on it? :^)

Pak Man, I assume your question is rhetorical but I'll answer it anyway. :)

Yep.  There was a definite environmentalist overtone in the novels.  The movies, being a fairly true adaptation of the novels, simply took that from the novels as well.  You can't blame Mr. Jackson for that, Darthvedder.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on October 30, 2006, 01:28:57 PM
uh your kidding right?  any tones of any kind in those books are based on the bias of the reader.  Thats not a direc qoute from tolkein but it fairly kinda almost close.  when he wrote it he intentionally left any sort of metaphor out of it, becuase he felt it would add to the books meaning.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Msampo on October 30, 2006, 01:31:58 PM
First of all I should say that I loved the LOTR movies overall. But...

Mainly I thought the LOTR films lacked the charm and tone of the novel. I understand certain things have to be omitted for the sake of brevity (Tom Bombadil, etc.) but the feeling just wasn't there for me. Where were the ballads and merriment? The novel wasn't all darkness and wraiths and epic battles.

I never minded when things were cut for brevity. What bothered me was when things were cut for brevity, and then completely pointless, Jackson-invented, plot cul-de-sacs (Aragorn falls off the cliff is a good example, but there are many others) were inserted, taking up screen time that could have been filled with the stuff they were cutting for brevity!

LOTR used to have sort of an underground, cult-following sort of feeling that was totally lost as soon as the movies came out. Maybe that's why I object to the movies more than anything else?I just miss the old days when it wasn't an enormous movie franchise.

I hear ya, but there's a flip side to that. Before the films, Tolkien was generally relagated to the kids' table and the literary thanksgiving dinner, if you know what I mean. It was dismissed as escapist nonsense, pulpy kid/geek stuff. The movies made critics take Tolkien seriously, or at least more seriously, and for that I am grateful.

Frankly I didn't like Peter Jackson or his co-writer wife's attitude about the material either. In one of the special features on the Fellowship DVD I remember hearing them almost bashing Tolkien and saying he "dropped the ball" when it came to the Arwen/Aragorn romance and that's why they played that up.  Excuse me? Who are you people? You made low budget New Zealand schlock and puppet porn and now you think Tolkien didn't know what he was doing so you put in a completely unnecessary romantic subplot into your adaptation. Uh-huh.

Weeeell, you're right and wrong, IMO. During the filming I remember how they kept telling the fans that they were sticking as close to the book as possible, that actors were carrying the book on the set and referring to it in discussions about how scenes were shot, stuff like that. That heartened me, as I'm sure it did a lot of Tolkien fans. But you're right, in some of the extra material that came out with the DVDs, an increasingly alarming cavalierness (is that a word?) regarding the source material began to leak out. "That won't work on film" became the excuse for not TRYING to make it work. Where I disagree with you is on the Aragorn/Arwen stuff. That's IN the book and Tolkien DOES muff it a little by sticking it all into the appendices. So they're sort of right about that. (I even understood substituting her for Glorfindel--though I didn't like the Jackson-invented stuff about her "fading" or whatever that was.)

There were some environmentalist political undertones in TWO TOWERS that I didn't like as well.

That didn't bother me so much. What bothered me was when Jackson simply overwrote Tolkien. If LOTR is about anything, it is about the choices people make. Aragorn explicitly says so in the book. What I objected to most was when, at crucial decision-making junctures, Jackson had the characters make exactly the opposite decision from the one the character made in the book (Faramir decides to take Frodo with him is one example; The Ents decide NOT to go to war is another, but there are more). Again, he is cutting stuff from the book because the movie's too long, but these opposite choices add a lot of sceen time, as each character discovers he's mistaken. Why not just have them make the right decision the first time?

McKellen said at one point that it's a shame that it is such a massively costly undertaking to mount a production of the Lord of the Rings. It would be wonderful if, like Hamlet, we could see many different directors and actors interpret the work in their own way. For better or worse, we're stuck with Jackson's vision for at least a generation.

Sampo
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on October 30, 2006, 01:39:19 PM
i like your post there sampo i agree with most of it especially this line
Quote
Faramir decides to take Frodo with him is one example; The Ents decide NOT to go to war is another,

basically ruined faramir and the ents wisdom in one big blow.  huge screw up if you ask me. 

one of the places i disagree with you is here

Quote
I didn't like the Jackson-invented stuff about her "fading" or whatever that was

that was in the book, or at least it was eluded to.  on quite a few occasions.  elves dont die they go to the west.  or rather over the sea.  Thats what she was talking about.  it was far more overt in the movies but it was in the book.  its also one of the things i like most about the tolkein elves.  they have an after life.  and all they need is a good travel agent to get there lol.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: MontyServo on October 30, 2006, 01:44:49 PM
First of all I should say that I loved the LOTR movies overall. But...


Am I alone here in saying that I don't care for the LOTR movies or books at all?  I've seen The Fellowship of the Ring and Two Towers and don't really remember anything special about them, and I've never seen Return Of The King.  I think I tried to read the books in high school, but couldn't really get into it.

 ???
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on October 30, 2006, 01:45:54 PM
maybe you should try again.  i found that worked well for me.  course i would start with the hobbit.  much easier to get into although clearly for a younger audience. 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on October 30, 2006, 02:33:28 PM
Quote
Writers and directors who are, or at least understand, women could have Amidala something to do in the third film, besides look worried and die.

You are welcome to my full-on rant regarding Padme here:  http://blondechampagne.blogspot.com/2005/06/incredible-shrieking-padme.html (http://blondechampagne.blogspot.com/2005/06/incredible-shrieking-padme.html). 

It's over a year old and I still get email about this essay.

I think Sampo raises some good points about TPM and the expectations of the audience, and I can even kind of relate a little to what Lucas may have been going through.  After all, the only negative ratings I get on RateMyProfessor.com are from the students who are pissed because they got the grade they earned, not the grade they wanted

What hooks so many of us into the Star Wars universe, not to mention LOTR, Harry Potter, and, yes, MST3K, is that it contains enough detail to imagine ourselves in this world, to feel confident that we could operate within it.  When reality in the form of inconsistencies, gaps in logic, and unmet expectations slap us upside the head, we feel betrayed even though that universe wasn't of our creation in the first place.  We're just tenants there.

For example, I don't read the Star Wars books past a certain point in the timeline.  I just can't deal with Chewbacca getting killed when a planet falls on him, or the disgustingly apostate (see?  See how furious I still am over this?) and completely irrational "Luke Marries Mara Jade" development.

I also highly resent the overuse of CGI/bluescreen--and, largely, the fact that I am a grownup.  I went from seven years old and "Wow!  How'd they do that?  Yoda must be real!" to twenty-seven and "This whole damn thing is just one big computer cartoon."
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 30, 2006, 02:35:29 PM
Yo mod dudes! I love BOTH the conversations going on here, but they're kinda starting to step on eachother. Any way anyone can wave a mod-wand and make another thread and move all the LOTR stuff over there? :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Conor on October 30, 2006, 03:16:27 PM
Yo mod dudes! I love BOTH the conversations going on here, but they're kinda starting to step on eachother. Any way anyone can wave a mod-wand and make another thread and move all the LOTR stuff over there? :^)

I don't think so...I think that would require a whole lot of work.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 30, 2006, 03:54:57 PM
Okay I'm going to do my best to steer this back on topic and away from "Lord of the Rings" fan-baiting.  ;D


"The Phantom Menace" sucks!

Or does it? I dunno people is it really as bad as "Crossroads" or "Road House"? I didn't like "The Matrix" or "X-Men" but I'll readily admit they are 1000x better than those Swayze/Spears-fests, and as a Star Wars fan I'd say PHANTOM MENACE was as well. I think the intercutting, pacing, music and energy in the last 20 minutes especially are very impressive. The lightsaber battle is one of the most poetic and elegent action sequences I've ever seen. I'll be interested to hear what Mike and Kevin "riff" with during all that other than simply reiterating to everyone how dumb Jar-Jar is. And even Jar Jar whether you hate him or, uh, hate him less was a pretty revolutionary concept and a bold decision on Lucas's part. No one had ever done an all CGI fully interactive character before (annoying or not, though personally I found Watto to be a better implemented example of that).

Obviously dialogue is not George Lucas's strength. Even he himself admits this?but two points on that:

1. It's wasn't all terrible. There were plenty of witty memorable moments in the prequels. Not as many as, say A NEW HOPE, but there were moments of creativity and old fashioned Star Wars self-awarness there ("Wanna buy some death sticks?", "Good job!" "Spring the trap!" etc.) Palpatine had some devilishly insightful things to say and I thought Natalie really emotionally charged the end of SITH.

2. I know many are wondering why if Lucas's admits his difficulty writing he wouldn't hire someone to help him out. Personally I think he wanted to win or lose on his own terms. Most of you would probably say he lost, but as someone who is involved in a creative profession I can relate to the mentality at least. Is it ego? Possibly, but then aren't we all egomaniacs in some sense? There's satisfaction in knowing that you did something on your own even if it isn't "the best."
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 30, 2006, 04:00:38 PM
Quote
Writers and directors who are, or at least understand, women could have Amidala something to do in the third film, besides look worried and die.

You are welcome to my full-on rant regarding Pademe here:  http://blondechampagne.blogspot.com/2005/06/incredible-shrieking-padme.html (http://blondechampagne.blogspot.com/2005/06/incredible-shrieking-padme.html). 

It's over a year old and I still get email about this essay.

I think Sampo raises some good points about TPM and the expectations of the audience, and I can even kind of relate a little to what Lucas may have been going through.  After all, the only negative ratings I get on RateMyProfessor.com are from the students who are pissed because they got the grade they earned, not the grade they wanted

What hooks so many of us into the Star Wars universe, not to mention LOTR, Harry Potter, and, yes, MST3K, is that it contains enough detail to imagine ourselves in this world, to feel confident that we could operate within it.  When reality in the form of inconsistencies, gaps in logic, and unmet expectations slap us upside the head, we feel betrayed even though that universe wasn't of our creation in the first place.  We're just tenants there.

For example, I don't read the Star Wars books past a certain point in the timeline.  I just can't deal with Chewbacca getting killed when a planet falls on him, or the disgustingly apostate (see?  See how furious I still am over this?) and completely irrational "Luke Marries Mara Jade" development.

I also highly resent the overuse of CGI/bluescreen--and, largely, the fact that I am a grownup.  I went from seven years old and "Wow!  How'd they do that?  Yoda must be real!" to "This whole damn thing is just one big computer cartoon."

The Star Wars EU books (other than the Zahn trilogy and Shadows of the Empire) are complete garbage and have done more to "ruin the franchise" than all the JarJars and midicholorians and phantom menace's in the world combined.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Bob on October 30, 2006, 05:03:49 PM
I think the problem most people had with the LOTR movies was if they were a Tolken fan.   I think it is true for almost any book that people really get into, the movie cannot possibly be as good as what the reader is imaginging in their head.    For example, I really liked the book Gorky Park, but when the movie came out...... the actors did not look like how I imagined them in my head, certain really cool plot and story eliments were cut for length purposes, etc..   There just is no way that a movie can be as good as a book (well, almost no way).    I never read Token and I loved the LOTR movies and I know people who never read Gorky Park and love the movie. 

As far as TPM goes, I was squirming in my seat in the first ten minutes of the movie when I realized just how BAD it was going to be from the original trilogy.   The problem for me was, there was just no character development or acting at all.   I dont want to see ten minutes of pod racing with NO element of suspence as we all know the little kid wont die or he wont grow up to be vader.   The horrible Jar Jar Binks, the conveyer belt scene, the princess's shirt getting ripped and now she has a tube top were SO mind numbingly bad, people were laughing in the theater.   It just really could have used a much better writer colaberating with him.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 30, 2006, 05:57:00 PM
The Star Wars EU books (other than the Zahn trilogy and Shadows of the Empire) are complete garbage and have done more to "ruin the franchise" than all the JarJars and midicholorians and phantom menace's in the world combined.

Shadows of the Empire?

Shadows...of the Empire?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 30, 2006, 06:19:04 PM
I think the problem most people had with the LOTR movies was if they were a Tolken fan.   I think it is true for almost any book that people really get into, the movie cannot possibly be as good as what the reader is imaginging in their head.    For example, I really liked the book Gorky Park, but when the movie came out...... the actors did not look like how I imagined them in my head, certain really cool plot and story eliments were cut for length purposes, etc..   There just is no way that a movie can be as good as a book (well, almost no way).    I never read Token and I loved the LOTR movies and I know people who never read Gorky Park and love the movie. 

As far as TPM goes, I was squirming in my seat in the first ten minutes of the movie when I realized just how BAD it was going to be from the original trilogy.   The problem for me was, there was just no character development or acting at all.   I dont want to see ten minutes of pod racing with NO element of suspence as we all know the little kid wont die or he wont grow up to be vader.   The horrible Jar Jar Binks, the conveyer belt scene, the princess's shirt getting ripped and now she has a tube top were SO mind numbingly bad, people were laughing in the theater.   It just really could have used a much better writer colaberating with him.

The conveyor belt scene and Padme's shirt getting ripped happened in CLONES not MENACE. So that means you still went and saw Episode II no matter how "mind numbingly bad" PHANTOM MENACE was.

I still don't understand this, people: if you hated the previous movie so virulently why are you bothering with it's sequel. Nobody has yet to satisfactorily explain this contradiction to me.

For the record, watching ATTACK OF THE CLONES in a packed theater of SW fans was the most awesome movie going experience I have ever had. People were bouncing off the walls like they were kids again when Yoda laid the smack down?and that's exactly how you should respond to movies like Star Wars.

P.S. I thought the conveyor belt scene was a great sequence and a seamless use of CGI. Padme getting her shirt ripped off by the Nexu was right out of FLASH GORDON. I loved it.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 30, 2006, 06:23:22 PM
I still don't understand this, people: if you hated the previous movie so virulently why are you bothering with it's sequel. Nobody has yet to satisfactorily explain this contradiction to me.

Because we're all huge Star Wars fans and we hoped the other films would be better.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 31, 2006, 12:33:24 AM
I still don't understand this, people: if you hated the previous movie so virulently why are you bothering with it's sequel. Nobody has yet to satisfactorily explain this contradiction to me.

Because we're all huge Star Wars fans and we hoped the other films would be better.

Are you serious? You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

It's fine if you were disappointed with the prequels and prefer the original trilogy but why can't some of you just admit there were some pretty cool aspects of episodes 1-3 and that's what kept you coming back for more and not soley because of the "good feelings" from episodes 4-6?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on October 31, 2006, 03:25:15 AM
If you look through the thread, I think you'll find that several of us made positive comments.  I mean, for all my bitching, I did call the lightsaber battle in TPM as the best in the series and mentioned that I greatly enjoyed the music.  I was also obviously and vastly impressed with the development of Obi-Wan (points to username.)  Can't speak for all Star Wars fans, but even though I was hugely disappointed by TPM, there was enough I did like to soldier through the other two.

Quote
why can't some of you just admit there were some pretty cool aspects of episodes 1-3 and that's what kept you coming back for more and not soley because of the "good feelings" from episodes 4-6?

Because it's more complex than that.

For many of us, the investment in the Star Wars universe is emotional, not logical.  It was a big part of many of our childhoods, and hours and hours of escape to imaginary world can't be erased by a single movie.  I know that for me, I felt as if I "knew" the characters and wanted to see what would happen to them; I wanted to "be there" at big moments in the "history" of Star Wars.  So it was worth it to forgive Lucas for everything I hated in Ep II in order to see the beautiful depictions of the split-up of Luke and Leia in the final moments of Ep III.  It was worth it to hear Vader take his first mechanized breath.  And much as I rail against the use of CGI Yoda, it was still an unforgettable feeling to be in the theater and hear everybody cheer when he busted out the lightsaber and started kicking ass.

But largely, I didn't want to take the chance that I might miss it if JarJar got eaten by something very slowly.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: James of LinHood on October 31, 2006, 05:15:01 AM
You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

Ummmm....the tone did shift in the next two prequels and that's why I found them to be much better than Episode 1.  Episode 1 was aimed at 6-year-old kids with a goal of selling toys.  Episodes 2 and 3 took a sharp turn away from that and started appealing to an older audience (hence Sith's PG-13 rating).
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbasehart on October 31, 2006, 05:48:58 AM
It's a pity that Lucas will never do the planned three afterward.  I remember reading Zahn's trilogy and thinking they'd be perfect for adaptation.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 31, 2006, 07:21:01 AM
I still don't understand this, people: if you hated the previous movie so virulently why are you bothering with it's sequel. Nobody has yet to satisfactorily explain this contradiction to me.

Because we're all huge Star Wars fans and we hoped the other films would be better.

Are you serious? You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

It's fine if you were disappointed with the prequels and prefer the original trilogy but why can't some of you just admit there were some pretty cool aspects of episodes 1-3 and that's what kept you coming back for more and not soley because of the "good feelings" from episodes 4-6?

I didn't hate any of them.  Sith, in fact, is one of my favorite movies.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 31, 2006, 07:30:55 AM
You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

Ummmm....the tone did shift in the next two prequels and that's why I found them to be much better than Episode 1.  Episode 1 was aimed at 6-year-old kids with a goal of selling toys.  Episodes 2 and 3 took a sharp turn away from that and started appealing to an older audience (hence Sith's PG-13 rating).

Actually I think Episode 1 was supposed to be a shiny, goofy comic book of a story in order to contrast how dark and bleak Episode 3 was.  6 year olds could enjoy it, yes, but they'd be 12 by the time Epsiode 3 came out, and could see aesthetically and thematically how dark things had gotten.  Adults should've been able to pick up on that too, but what can you do.  Which is not to say that it makes Episode 1 a good movie.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on October 31, 2006, 08:44:11 AM
The Star Wars EU books (other than the Zahn trilogy and Shadows of the Empire) are complete garbage and have done more to "ruin the franchise" than all the JarJars and midicholorians and phantom menace's in the world combined.

Are you serious? You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

I was just thinking.  For you to know for a fact that all the other EU books were complete garbage, that would have required a lot of reading considering they've been continuously published for the past fifteen years and there are dozens of books in the series.  Which leads me to the question:  If you hated all of the other books so much, why did you continue to read them?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 31, 2006, 08:48:49 AM
It's a pity that Lucas will never do the planned three afterward.  I remember reading Zahn's trilogy and thinking they'd be perfect for adaptation.

Zahn is one of the few, maybe the only, EU authors to get the Star Wars feel to transfer to the written page (though the "Hand of Thrawn" duology was disappointing).

When "Heir to the Empire" came out in the early nineties it really kind of summoned the return of Star Wars for a lot of us. Back then Star Wars, if you can believe it, had almost an underground feeling to it. There wasn't much merchandising at the time and only a handful of books and games.

Personally I'm looking forward to the live action TV show that's coming out. GL will not be writing or directing so that should make everyone here happy (or maybe not, not all non-Lucas involved Star Wars projects are gold).

I'd like to see guys like Kevin Smith and JJ Abrams working on it?talented writer/directors who appreciate and love all aspects of the saga.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 31, 2006, 08:53:08 AM
The Star Wars EU books (other than the Zahn trilogy and Shadows of the Empire) are complete garbage and have done more to "ruin the franchise" than all the JarJars and midicholorians and phantom menace's in the world combined.

Are you serious? You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

I was just thinking.  For you to know for a fact that all the other EU books were complete garbage, that would have required a lot of reading considering they've been continuously published for the past fifteen years and there are dozens of books in the series.  Which leads me to the question:  If you hated all of the other books so much, why did you continue to read them?

I don't know "for a fact" they are all bad but the dozen or so I have read have by and large left me very unimpressed.
I didn't continue to read them, that's my whole point. Once I saw the approach the EU authors were taking I stopped trying to keep up. There's a very consistent, dumb sci-fi tone in most EU novels that I don't care for.

Now if only people who went and saw PHANTOM MENACE were as consistent.  :)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: JonnyFrag on October 31, 2006, 11:10:22 AM
Here's a bigger question: Have any Riffaholics not seen Phantom Menace? At all? (I know some of you said you couldn't make it all the way through.)

I've seen it plenty of times (including a Midnight showing on opening day back in 1999 where we stood outside in the hot Florida sun for over 12 hours twice, once to buy the tickets, then again on opening day.)  But I think it has been several years since I have seen it.  Like I said, I don't even have it on DVD.

I actually have come to think that Episode 1 isn't even the worst movie of the prequel trilogy.  That would be Episode II : Attack of the Over the Top, Really Bad CGI.

I thought Obi-Wan's little mystery movie within a movie (when he finds out about Jango) was the ONLY good thing in any of the new three.

Oh, you mean the subplot started in Clones, and then never touched upon again?
They started a whole mystery and then just let it lie there for Sith.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: JonnyFrag on October 31, 2006, 01:09:26 PM
Waxing philisophical...and we all know how painful that can be!


As Sampo mentioned earlier, a big portion of the letdown from 'real fans' was the fact that George made movies for kids still, but we had all grown up since then. I am hoping that the television series can somehow fill the void of adult sized Star Wars. Even the Clone Wars cartoon seemed to have more things to appeal to the fans than TPM.
That, however, does not change the fact that the prequels suffer from poorly written dialogue, MTV style nanosecond editing, overloaded CGI and not as imaginative designs. Since George is intimately involved in editing, the sole writer and approver of all designs, that rest squarely on his shoulders.

Oh, and as an aside, my (now) 8 year old son thought Revenge of the Sith was the best Star Wars movies BY FAR.
I guess even the kids today are a bit more sophisticated than we were in the late 70s. Of course, this is partially due to George Lucas anyway....
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 31, 2006, 02:37:26 PM
Waxing philisophical...and we all know how painful that can be!


As Sampo mentioned earlier, a big portion of the letdown from 'real fans' was the fact that George made movies for kids still, but we had all grown up since then. I am hoping that the television series can somehow fill the void of adult sized Star Wars. Even the Clone Wars cartoon seemed to have more things to appeal to the fans than TPM.
That, however, does not change the fact that the prequels suffer from poorly written dialogue, MTV style nanosecond editing, overloaded CGI and not as imaginative designs. Since George is intimately involved in editing, the sole writer and approver of all designs, that rest squarely on his shoulders.

Oh, and as an aside, my (now) 8 year old son thought Revenge of the Sith was the best Star Wars movies BY FAR.
I guess even the kids today are a bit more sophisticated than we were in the late 70s. Of course, this is partially due to George Lucas anyway....

Not as imaginative designs? Boy you lost me there. I thought the design team on all three prequels did an outstanding job with the props, vehicles, weapons, creatures and costumes. Certainly the costume design was better since it was virtually non-existent in the original trilogy. In fact I'd declare the designs and the music to be the true flawless elements of episodes 1-3.

As far as overabundance on CGI goes that's the world we live in now. I don't find stop-motion puppets with bad matte lines and static matte paintings to be any more "real" than CGI. Furthermore the prequels used more models and practical effects that any of the original films.

The LOTR movies had just as much CGI going on in them so that in and of itself can't really be a criticism can it?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: JonnyFrag on October 31, 2006, 02:45:13 PM
I am not meaning that the design team was bad per se, but where is the iconic new designs? I say there is nothing as cool in all the prequels as:
The Millinieum (sp) Falcon
AT/ATs
Snow Speeders
A Wings
Super Star Destroyers
 etc...

Was there even ONE designed idea that made you want to run out and get a toy or model of it?
Everything was all chrome and new etc... I liked the 'used universe' look of the OT.
Again, I may be speaking from a jaded 'adult' point of view , but really I am still a kid in the sense that I still like to buy cool toys....
for my kids of course  ;D

Although the camoflagued Scout Trooper armor in Sith rocked hard...

and no, I am NOT a Prequel Hater. I place 2 of them before one of the OT movies myself. I just wish they had been...more.
Especially more space battles. I mean, it is called STAR Wars. Not Jedi Fights.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on October 31, 2006, 04:35:04 PM
Quote
I don't find stop-motion puppets with bad matte lines and static matte paintings to be any more "real" than CGI. Furthermore the prequels used more models and practical effects that any of the original films.

But it just looked so... animated, so much like a cartoon.  Not for one single second did I think CGI Yoda looked real.  I mean, in Empire, I knew, intellectually, that he was a puppet, but at least he had that "flesh and blood and matter" look.  You could suspend your belief easier.  And that to the glass background painting in ANH when Obi-Wan is turning off the tractor beam... gorgeous.  I'm not saying they should go all the way back to the matte lines, but those final battles in Ep II weren't believeable to me in the slightest. 

It was one big fake orgasm.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on October 31, 2006, 04:38:40 PM
Couldn't have had the Yoda/Dooku battle at all with a puppet...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Variety of Cells on October 31, 2006, 05:26:21 PM
You can't?  I do ever night.  Well, I guess it's not a puppet, more of an action figure.  But still, it's possible.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on October 31, 2006, 05:49:09 PM
Quote
Couldn't have had the Yoda/Dooku battle at all with a puppet...

Well yeah, but did he have to CGI Yoda for every damn thing?  Why not use the puppet for the close-up conversations with Obi-Wan or the Jedi council?  There has to be a happy medium.  Step away from the blue screen, George.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on October 31, 2006, 06:07:51 PM
Asking George Lucas to lay off the CGI is like asking Joss Whedon to quit writing strong women characters.

It ain't gonna happen.


 :)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on October 31, 2006, 07:11:39 PM
Quote
Couldn't have had the Yoda/Dooku battle at all with a puppet...

Well yeah, but did he have to CGI Yoda for every damn thing?  Why not use the puppet for the close-up conversations with Obi-Wan or the Jedi council?  There has to be a happy medium.  Step away from the blue screen, George.

I thought CGI Yoda looked great.  He played too large a role in the prequels to have him be a puppet -- and I don't think Lucas forgot or dislikes puppetry.  See the audio commentary to Empire Strikes Back.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on October 31, 2006, 08:17:20 PM
I am not meaning that the design team was bad per se, but where is the iconic new designs? I say there is nothing as cool in all the prequels as:
The Millinieum (sp) Falcon
AT/ATs
Snow Speeders
A Wings
Super Star Destroyers
 etc...

Was there even ONE designed idea that made you want to run out and get a toy or model of it?
Everything was all chrome and new etc... I liked the 'used universe' look of the OT.
Again, I may be speaking from a jaded 'adult' point of view , but really I am still a kid in the sense that I still like to buy cool toys....
for my kids of course  ;D

Although the camoflagued Scout Trooper armor in Sith rocked hard...

and no, I am NOT a Prequel Hater. I place 2 of them before one of the OT movies myself. I just wish they had been...more.
Especially more space battles. I mean, it is called STAR Wars. Not Jedi Fights.


I kind of see what you are saying but I think, like you said, the fact that none of the designs of the prequels stuck out to you as much has to do with you (and me!) not being an 8 year old kid anymore.

I thought the N-1 Naboo fighter, the Jedi Starfighter (both versions) and the ARC-170 were all really, really cool designs and I did in fact rush right out and get myself models of all of those.

The crome/rocketship look of things was a function of the prequels taking place in an early "craftsman" era of the saga. Then the "Clone Wars" happens and it becomes a "used" universe. I actually thought that whole thread was handled very well through the progression of the episodes. Even so, there was still a lot of the typical SW "distressing" going on it just wasn't as pronounced.

The X-Wing's, Y-Wings, ATAT's etc. are all iconic because we've seen the movies they were showcased in about a bazillion times. Talk to a younger crowd and you'll find many of them prefer the vechicles and characters of the prequels (some even prefer the movies themselves if you can believe that!).

The full CGI Yoda was amazing?especially in SITH. The light refraction and character animation was much improved and right on par with Gollum as far as an interactive CGI character. Even Frank Oz thought what Rob Coleman and the team did with Yoda was fantastic. If a genius like Frank approves that's good enough for me.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: SaucyRossy on October 31, 2006, 08:38:29 PM
Asking George Lucas to lay off the CGI is like asking Joss Whedon to quit writing strong women characters.

It ain't gonna happen.


 :)

I resent that comment. As a Whedonite (whedon fanboy) he has always had strong male characters. Mal Reynolds?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on October 31, 2006, 09:22:22 PM
YMMV, but I just never bought the close-up shots.  It's a stunning piece of computer animation, but I was never able for a second to forget the fact that it was... computer animation.

Quote
see the audio commentary

I know what you mean to say, but... let's just think about how this is worded for a second here...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on November 01, 2006, 02:23:43 AM
Oh and one other thing Ep 1 gave us: Destroyer Droids. They just rock. :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on November 01, 2006, 05:09:26 AM
Asking George Lucas to lay off the CGI is like asking Joss Whedon to quit writing strong women characters.

It ain't gonna happen.


 :)

I resent that comment. As a Whedonite (whedon fanboy) he has always had strong male characters. Mal Reynolds?

Oh I never alluded to his male characters at all. Of course, any Joss fan can tell you that he writes many strong characters, both male and female. I was just alluding to the fact that so many people would ask him why he writes strong female characters, and he has said numerous times that he'll never stop writing strong female characters.

That's all. No worries!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 01, 2006, 06:14:14 AM
Gonna tiptoe away from the Whedon discussion now -- if I piped up with my opinion of those wonderful characters of his, I'd be drummed right off the board. (Although I do like "Firefly" much, much better than Gabby the Vampire Layer "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Not that that's saying much, because I like test patterns better than "Buffy." But "Firefly" is a huge improvement.)

ANyway . . .

What I really came here to say was, "It's 'Phantom Menace' Day! Yaaay!"  ;D

ETA: I've been feeling guilty ever since I wrote that. I apologize for the snippiness. The fact is I just can't abide Whedon's writing most of the time, but that's no excuse for rudeness. I wouldn't like it if someone went off on one of my favorite writers like that. So, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dignan on November 01, 2006, 06:37:46 AM
Has anyone here seen the show Spaced, starring Simon Pegg of Shaun of the Dead?  His reaction to The Phantom Menace is quite awesome. 

Here's one of the clips, actually:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc7vwz32pkc

Ah...love that show.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on November 01, 2006, 06:53:52 AM
Has anyone here seen the show Spaced, starring Simon Pegg of Shaun of the Dead?  His reaction to The Phantom Menace is quite awesome. 

Here's one of the clips, actually:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc7vwz32pkc

Ah...love that show.

That was freakin' brilliant!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Cap'n UKRiffer on November 01, 2006, 07:14:48 AM
Has anyone here seen the show Spaced, starring Simon Pegg of Shaun of the Dead? 

One of my favourite shows, makes me proud to be British  ;D

A later scene has Tim working at a new comic book store and him having to hold his anger in when a kid comes up asking him if theres any Jar Jar toys and him going through the different types of jar jar toys they have through gritted teeth.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Shinigami on November 01, 2006, 08:16:30 AM
I love Spaced.  I especially liked how they got Ray Park to be his rival, and even had him talk like Darth Maul.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Cap'n UKRiffer on November 01, 2006, 08:22:27 AM
I love Spaced.  I especially liked how they got Ray Park to be his rival, and even had him talk like Darth Maul.

Actually that wasn't Ray Park, that was Peter Serafinowicz who provided the voice for Darth Maul.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: JonnyFrag on November 01, 2006, 08:23:42 AM


I kind of see what you are saying but I think, like you said, the fact that none of the designs of the prequels stuck out to you as much has to do with you (and me!) not being an 8 year old kid anymore.

I thought the N-1 Naboo fighter, the Jedi Starfighter (both versions) and the ARC-170 were all really, really cool designs and I did in fact rush right out and get myself models of all of those.

The crome/rocketship look of things was a function of the prequels taking place in an early "craftsman" era of the saga. Then the "Clone Wars" happens and it becomes a "used" universe. I actually thought that whole thread was handled very well through the progression of the episodes. Even so, there was still a lot of the typical SW "distressing" going on it just wasn't as pronounced.

The X-Wing's, Y-Wings, ATAT's etc. are all iconic because we've seen the movies they were showcased in about a bazillion times. Talk to a younger crowd and you'll find many of them prefer the vechicles and characters of the prequels (some even prefer the movies themselves if you can believe that!).

The full CGI Yoda was amazing—especially in SITH. The light refraction and character animation was much improved and right on par with Gollum as far as an interactive CGI character. Even Frank Oz thought what Rob Coleman and the team did with Yoda was fantastic. If a genius like Frank approves that's good enough for me.

You are correct. My son would much rather see the Sith than any of the OT. But he totally tunes out for Phantom. He really digs the Jedi starfighters he has, but he also really wants me to get him an AT/AT off ebay as well.

Bottom line it's all personal taste, so there is no way Lucas could statisfy everyone. Just take what you like from them and leave the rest.
But make sure you buy stuff, that is Lucas' idea.
I went out dutifully that Tuesday and bought the OT on DVD AGAIN. Much like I will buy the next set when it comes out. It seems silly, and I complain and do not buy the LOTR stuff when it comes out like that, but somehow it's alright because it's Star Wars.
I am a Lucas Whore I guess.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dignan on November 01, 2006, 08:36:49 AM
I love Spaced.  I especially liked how they got Ray Park to be his rival, and even had him talk like Darth Maul.

Actually that wasn't Ray Park, that was Peter Serafinowicz who provided the voice for Darth Maul.

My favorite episode of Spaced, actually, is the one where Peter (aka Dwayne) runs into Tim and Daisy at the bar and then paraphrases himself from Phantom Menace.  Gun Fight!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Rufus T on November 01, 2006, 09:26:21 AM
 Funny pics I found online. Not really relevant but I thought you all would find them humorous.

(http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/Unkempt.jpg)
(http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/Unkempt2.jpg)
(http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/spacemountain1.jpg)
(http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/ikari1.jpg)
(http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/Diet-Smegma.jpg)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: David on November 01, 2006, 09:37:11 AM
Truly, SomethingAwful.com is a boon of comedy (the users often moreso than the official writers)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 01, 2006, 09:38:02 AM
Groucho, those are hilarious!  ;D
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: David on November 01, 2006, 09:45:51 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't put it past Lucas to actually do that first edit to ROTJ... he already replaced Sebastian Shaw with Hayden in the final scene with the ghosts. (WTF?) Why not here too?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on November 01, 2006, 10:47:20 AM
(http://goats.com/comix/9905/goats990525.gif)

Back when Goats (http://goats.com) was still funny but the art sucked.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on November 01, 2006, 06:01:30 PM
(http://goats.com/comix/9905/goats990525.gif)

Back when Goats (http://goats.com) was still funny but the art sucked.

Based on this...I'd say you're half-right.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Joe Don Faker on November 01, 2006, 06:09:38 PM
The Alex Guiness mime made me smile, but the Kentucky Fried Porkins just killed me... 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: RaYzor on November 02, 2006, 03:39:29 PM
I noticed some of you listing Star Wars films in order of favorite to least favorite.  Here's mine (Do not think I am insane plz) :

(1) Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith
(2) Episode 4: A New Hope / Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back  (TIE)
(3) Episode 6: Return of the Jedi
(4) Episode 2: Attack of the Clones
(5) Episode 1: The Phantom Menace

Yes, I know .. a prequel is ON TOP!  What are the odds?

Quite honestly, apart from a tinge (tho nowhere near as bad as Episode 2) of bad acting between Hayden and Natalie Portman, this movie was everything I wanted, moreso than even Empire or A New Hope :

(1) The archaiac, eliteist, clueless Jedi Council is wiped out.  These guys couldn't run an invasion of Antartica, and they got what they deserved for being so high and mighty.  Good riddance to bad rubbish.

(2) Anakin goes nuclear.  This could have been done better and more violent of course, but Lucas stayed within the limits of a PG-13 rating while still being 'for kids' and Star Wars.  When he turned on Mace was brilliant, and when he walks into the room full of kids and starts up the ol' lightsaber... just awesome.

(3) Palpatine Rules All.  This is hands down the greatest, most evil villian ever, and we get to see him in full form, taking out clueless Jedi and besting Yoda.

I've always wanted to see a Star Wars movie besides Empire end with the bad guys getting the upper hand, and this is as good as it ever will get. 

RaYzor
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on November 03, 2006, 07:54:53 AM
I noticed some of you listing Star Wars films in order of favorite to least favorite.  Here's mine (Do not think I am insane plz) :

(1) Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith
(2) Episode 4: A New Hope / Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back  (TIE)
(3) Episode 6: Return of the Jedi
(4) Episode 2: Attack of the Clones
(5) Episode 1: The Phantom Menace

Yes, I know .. a prequel is ON TOP!  What are the odds?

Quite honestly, apart from a tinge (tho nowhere near as bad as Episode 2) of bad acting between Hayden and Natalie Portman, this movie was everything I wanted, moreso than even Empire or A New Hope :

(1) The archaiac, eliteist, clueless Jedi Council is wiped out.  These guys couldn't run an invasion of Antartica, and they got what they deserved for being so high and mighty.  Good riddance to bad rubbish.

(2) Anakin goes nuclear.  This could have been done better and more violent of course, but Lucas stayed within the limits of a PG-13 rating while still being 'for kids' and Star Wars.  When he turned on Mace was brilliant, and when he walks into the room full of kids and starts up the ol' lightsaber... just awesome.

(3) Palpatine Rules All.  This is hands down the greatest, most evil villian ever, and we get to see him in full form, taking out clueless Jedi and besting Yoda.

I've always wanted to see a Star Wars movie besides Empire end with the bad guys getting the upper hand, and this is as good as it ever will get. 

RaYzor

In general I thought the romantic relationship was much improved. If you call yourself a Star Wars fan and don't feel any emotion at the end of the movie when Anakin chokes Padme there is something wrong with you.

I assume the "tinge" you speak of is the oft-maligned "balcony scene". Corny dialogue indeed although Hayden and Natalie actually do their damndest to play it off it a cutesy/humorous way (similar I thought to how Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher handled all the dumb things Larry Kasdan gave them to say to each other).

That's one of the weaker parts of the movie but interestingly enough I thought it's proceeded by one of the strongest.

The part where Anakin gets up and describes his vision is well-written, staged, directed and acted. It's almost too good for a Star Wars movie if that makes any sense.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: RaYzor on November 03, 2006, 09:44:13 AM
Quote
In general I thought the romantic relationship was much improved. If you call yourself a Star Wars fan and don't feel any emotion at the end of the movie when Anakin chokes Padme there is something wrong with you.

I assume the "tinge" you speak of is the oft-maligned "balcony scene". Corny dialogue indeed although Hayden and Natalie actually do their damndest to play it off it a cutesy/humorous way (similar I thought to how Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher handled all the dumb things Larry Kasdan gave them to say to each other).

Well, yeah, the balcony scene was the one.  It wasn't nowhere near as bad as the awful crap in Episode 2, but there was some cringing.  Like "I love you" "No I love you more" kind of thing it had going on.

Aside of that part tho, the Anakin / Padme stuff was far far better and more than acceptable for Star Wars.  I particularly liked when he is about to make the decision to help out Palpatine and they both are just kind of staring across town, perhaps feeling each other thru the Force, with no words, only music.  That was very nice.

Anyhow, hope I cleared up what I was saying.  The verdict still stands:  Episode 3 - Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars movie in my opinion.

RaYzor
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on November 03, 2006, 09:52:47 AM
Anyhow, hope I cleared up what I was saying.  The verdict still stands:  Episode 3 - Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars movie in my opinion.

RaYzor

Maddox disagrees.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=episode3
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on November 03, 2006, 10:04:33 AM
Anyhow, hope I cleared up what I was saying.  The verdict still stands:  Episode 3 - Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars movie in my opinion.

RaYzor

Maddox disagrees.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=episode3

There's something ironic about somebody writing a badly written article on how Lucas is a bad writer.

Besides, who cares what a washed up veteran like Greg Maddux thinks anyway!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 10:05:03 AM
Han and Leia had WAY better dialogue than Padme and Ani (imho).

That whole bit about scoundrels and dirty hands had more to say than Padme talking about the baby's room....

Also - Han and Leia were coming from a more developed back story where the two of them were fighting constantly etc etc which made the love connection all the cooler. Padme and Ani fall in love, from what I can tell, because Padme wears low-cut garments around im, and chooses to tel lhim she loves him right before they are about to die....

I dunno - Not saying I don't feel any sort of hatred toward Vader for choking Padme, but Han and Leia had a much better story to tell.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on November 03, 2006, 10:09:03 AM
Han and Leia had WAY better dialogue than Padme and Ani (imho).

That whole bit about scoundrels and dirty hands had more to say than Padme talking about the baby's room....

Also - Han and Leia were coming from a more developed back story where the two of them were fighting constantly etc etc which made the love connection all the cooler. Padme and Ani fall in love, from what I can tell, because Padme wears low-cut garments around im, and chooses to tel lhim she loves him right before they are about to die....

I dunno - Not saying I don't feel any sort of hatred toward Vader for choking Padme, but Han and Leia had a much better story to tell.

I dunno. The Han and Leia trist really had nothing at all to do with the overall story, it was just a little bickering subplot that I thought (flame on jerks) ditracted a tad from EMPIRE. I wish George Lucas would've reigned in Kershner a little bit there (or maybe not, I mean he was the genius behind Robocop 2).

I'm not saying every aspect of Anakin/Padme was brilliantly handled but it was a relationship that was VERY important to how Anakin turns to the darkside. It some ways the whole saga hinges on it. Maybe that's why people were so disappointed.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 10:18:32 AM
Han and Leia had WAY better dialogue than Padme and Ani (imho).

That whole bit about scoundrels and dirty hands had more to say than Padme talking about the baby's room....

Also - Han and Leia were coming from a more developed back story where the two of them were fighting constantly etc etc which made the love connection all the cooler. Padme and Ani fall in love, from what I can tell, because Padme wears low-cut garments around im, and chooses to tel lhim she loves him right before they are about to die....

I dunno - Not saying I don't feel any sort of hatred toward Vader for choking Padme, but Han and Leia had a much better story to tell.
I dunno. The Han and Leia trist really had nothing at all to do with the overall story, it was just a little bickering subplot that I thought (flame on jerks) ditracted a tad from EMPIRE. I wish George Lucas would've reigned in Kershner a little bit there (or maybe not, I mean he was the genius behind Robocop 2).

I'm not saying every aspect of Anakin/Padme was brilliantly handled but it was a relationship that was VERY important to how Anakin turns to the darkside. It some ways the whole saga hinges on it. Maybe that's why people were so disappointed.

Definitely agree. I had no problems with how Han and Leia were directed - but the unrealistic and genuinely unhuman way that Ani and Padme were portrayed (not to mention the cheese-factor) just REALLY disappointed me. Doesn't help that Ani got twenty years older between eps 1 and 2, and Padme didn't change ;)

Anyway - What's done is done. We can cross our fingers and hope that 7-9 are made sometime in the future by Lucas' kids (since he swore personally never to touch Star Wars ever again). But chances are slim methinks. But if they did do 7-9 anytime in the /near/ future, the original cast members would all be about the right age to reprise their roles.

BTW - this guy: http://www.supershadow.com/
... needs to get a frickin' life....
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: gammer on November 03, 2006, 10:30:03 AM
Quote
Anyway - What's done is done. We can cross our fingers and hope that 7-9 are made sometime in the future by Lucas' kids (since he swore personally never to touch Star Wars ever again). But chances are slim methinks. But if they did do 7-9 anytime in the /near/ future, the original cast members would all be about the right age to reprise their roles.

Never say never.

The Eagles said they'd play together again when Hell freezes over.
...and what was the name of their reunion tour again?   ;)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 10:38:16 AM
Hey - they said in that album that they never actually broke up, they were just taking a break ;)

But I agree! Lucas wil lprobably hand it over to his kids, who will hopefully get a decent director to help make the universe into what it used to be. (Of course, my dream director for Star Wars is Peter Jackson).

Does anyone think, though, that the damage done by the prequels quells the ability to bring Star Wars back to the respectable forefront?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: gammer on November 03, 2006, 10:46:57 AM
Hey - they said in that album that they never actually broke up, they were just taking a break ;)

But I agree! Lucas wil lprobably hand it over to his kids, who will hopefully get a decent director to help make the universe into what it used to be. (Of course, my dream director for Star Wars is Peter Jackson).

Does anyone think, though, that the damage done by the prequels quells the ability to bring Star Wars back to the respectable forefront?

Thats like asking if Batman Begins brings the batman series back to respectable forefront after that Batman & Robin flop.

Lots of room for opinions on the subject...for sure.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: kodiakthejuggler on November 03, 2006, 10:49:15 AM
BTW - this guy: http://www.supershadow.com/
... needs to get a frickin' life....

I'll say!

A list of various Jedi's Midichlorian Counts ???

Oh brother!

 ;D
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 11:00:38 AM
BTW - this guy: http://www.supershadow.com/
... needs to get a frickin' life....

I'll say!

A list of various Jedi's Midichlorian Counts ???

Oh brother!

 ;D

Re: Kodiak

Yeah - SuperShadow has been around forever, and claims to be Lucas's right hand man when it comes to Star Wars conceptualization. He claims to have helped write all three prequel scripts (NOT something to be proud of) and also has a list of unofficial Star Wars tidbits all over the site. Sadly, many a secceptable fan thinks that SS is telling the truth. In one section of his page, there are responses to fans /suppsoedly/ written by Lucas himself. I wonder why Georgio hasn't shut down SuperShadow....

The biggest giveaway for SuperSahdow being a fake is his claim to be one of the cast members in the Revenge of the Sith. He claims to be i nthe youngling-massacre surveillance video as like, one of the last ones who gets killed. But the actual actor read SS's claim o nthat page and publicly announced that nobody on the Star Wars team knows who SS is, and that the character he claims to have portrayed, well, isn't him....

Re: Gammer

Yeah I gotcha with the Batman thing.... I actually really enjoyed Batman Begins, and I /did/ look at it as a whole different movie from its predecessors. So the argument could be made that a Star Wars sequelogy would stand on its own! Sort of how Star Trek TNG movies kind of stand separately from Star Trek TOS movies.

If JP had one (or two) wishes that he wished would be fulfilled before going home to Jesus, it would be one small fraction of screentime on both a Star Wars movie and a Tolkien movie.... just one SECOND in costume lol
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dignan on November 03, 2006, 11:53:50 AM
In regards to Han and Leia, they also had dialogue provided to them by Lawrence Kasdan and Leigh Brackett, which clearly was a hell of a lot better than George's "I don't like sand" fumble of a pickup line. 

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 12:30:03 PM
In regards to Han and Leia, they also had dialogue provided to them by Lawrence Kasdan and Leigh Brackett, which clearly was a hell of a lot better than George's "I don't like sand" fumble of a pickup line. 



lol.... Which sucks - cuz I happen to like girls in the sand ;) Here in CA we see that a lot =)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on November 03, 2006, 01:01:45 PM
Hey - they said in that album that they never actually broke up, they were just taking a break ;)

But I agree! Lucas wil lprobably hand it over to his kids, who will hopefully get a decent director to help make the universe into what it used to be. (Of course, my dream director for Star Wars is Peter Jackson).

Does anyone think, though, that the damage done by the prequels quells the ability to bring Star Wars back to the respectable forefront?

A Peter Jackson Star Wars? Lord I hope not. I'd like to see PJ make a film based on an original idea sometime (that isn't schlock or puppet porn) and not simply adapt other people's work or do re-makes.

What damage was exactly done? Regardless of your opinion of their artistic merit the three movies grossed 2 billion worldwide and created a whole new generation of fans. Star Wars is as strong as it's ever been.

To call the prequels a failure on the level of "Batman & Robin" is silly. None of the new episodes were anywhere near as critically or commercially a failure as that debacle.

I found "Batman Begins" to be ponderous and dull. The first hour of the movie has nothing to do with Batman even and is just a bunch of pretentious setup. It's like Christopher Nolan got so worried about going the route of the Joel Schumacher Batman movies he totally overcompensated and forgot to have any fun with the character.

Superhero movies never work for me (with just a couple of exceptions).
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 02:16:16 PM
Well I suppose it depends on whether or not you find financial gain to be the determining factor of a movies "success." I guess I prefer overall fan enjoyment and reputation.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 02:21:01 PM
Hey - they said in that album that they never actually broke up, they were just taking a break ;)

But I agree! Lucas wil lprobably hand it over to his kids, who will hopefully get a decent director to help make the universe into what it used to be. (Of course, my dream director for Star Wars is Peter Jackson).

Does anyone think, though, that the damage done by the prequels quells the ability to bring Star Wars back to the respectable forefront?

A Peter Jackson Star Wars? Lord I hope not. I'd like to see PJ make a film based on an original idea sometime (that isn't schlock or puppet porn) and not simply adapt other people's work or do re-makes.

I agree with your assessment that PJ is famous for remakes and adaptations, but just about every director is. Very few directors, with the exceptino of George Lucas of course, write their own movies and gain worldwide acclaim for them. That being said, Pete was one of the creative directors and helped write the screenplay for LOTR.

Also - I would consider it much harder for a director to work within a universe already committed to screen by a previous director - it leaves more to compare things next to. I love what Pete did to LOTR, so I would REALLY love to see what he could do to Star Wars.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: IronPigeon on November 03, 2006, 03:14:52 PM
I haven't seen this movie since it came out in theaters. Some people will always defend it no matter what (delusional people...ha ha). But for me it actually made me enjoy the original series less. I'm not sure how, but it did. The force is some sort of bacteria? WTF? My favorite part is when we find out that Mannequin is some sort of immaculately concieved jedi Jesus.

I'm conflicted.  I promised myself I'd never buy this movie, yet I also said I would buy every riffed dvd. What should I do?

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 03, 2006, 03:21:01 PM
Give in and feed Lucas' children.....
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Justin on November 03, 2006, 04:00:00 PM
Give in and feed Lucas' children.....

Even the one he killed onscreen in Episode III?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 03, 2006, 04:10:12 PM
Didja see his daughters at the AFI Lifetime Award ceremony?  Those children don't need no feedin'.

You know what, I was reading through some Lucas quotes over at his IMDB entry, and the following ones made me laugh and laugh:

"I took over control of the merchandising not because I thought it was going to make me rich, but because I wanted to control it. I wanted to make a stand for social, safety, and quality reasons. I didn't want someone using the name 'Star Wars' on a piece of junk."

"Part of the reason I went back to tell the prequel, of how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader, is that it's an interesting story and a fun one to tell. Because it is the story of how a good person turns bad."

Or, you know, how a good filmmaker turns pants-crappingly insane. 

At his heart, Lucas is an editor.  I wish, how I wish, he had relinquished some control of the prequel to those who had strengths he did not.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on November 03, 2006, 04:36:59 PM
Didja see his daughters at the AFI Lifetime Award ceremony?  Those children don't need no feedin'.

You know what, I was reading through some Lucas quotes over at his IMDB entry, and the following ones made me laugh and laugh:

"I took over control of the merchandising not because I thought it was going to make me rich, but because I wanted to control it. I wanted to make a stand for social, safety, and quality reasons. I didn't want someone using the name 'Star Wars' on a piece of junk."

"Part of the reason I went back to tell the prequel, of how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader, is that it's an interesting story and a fun one to tell. Because it is the story of how a good person turns bad."

Or, you know, how a good filmmaker turns pants-crappingly insane. 

At his heart, Lucas is an editor.  I wish, how I wish, he had relinquished some control of the prequel to those who had strengths he did not.

Cracks about people's weight? That's not cool.

I'll never understand all the hatred for the man George Lucas. It's fine to critique his work but you'd think the man raped nuns or murdered children the way people talk about him.

I've always thought he was a very nice, gracious, humble, down-to-earth guy. He basically quit making movies for 16 years to raise his kids (after his wife dumped him). You have to respect that.

Again, be critical of his movies all you want but don't question the man's character and intelligence.

P.S. You seem to detest the guy yet you watched the AFI Lifetime special dedicated to him? The curious reactions of the Lucas bashers continue to astound me.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: IronPigeon on November 03, 2006, 07:07:22 PM
I just assumed his film making ceased because his deal with the dark one expired sometime in the late 80's.

Oh and I think I'll just get a used copy of TPM. That way I can watch the rifftrax whenever I want, and JL is still 15 dollars farther away from that solid gold dining set he's had his eye on.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 03, 2006, 07:26:17 PM
Quote
I'll never understand all the hatred for the man George Lucas. It's fine to critique his work but you'd think the man raped nuns or murdered children the way people talk about him.
P.S. You seem to detest the guy yet you watched the AFI Lifetime special dedicated to him? The curious reactions of the Lucas bashers continue to astound me.

Hee!  Oh, George, go back to making Greedo shoot first and digitally adding breasts to Boba Fett or whatever it is you do these days.  We know it's you. 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on November 04, 2006, 11:30:43 AM
Quote
I'll never understand all the hatred for the man George Lucas. It's fine to critique his work but you'd think the man raped nuns or murdered children the way people talk about him.
P.S. You seem to detest the guy yet you watched the AFI Lifetime special dedicated to him? The curious reactions of the Lucas bashers continue to astound me.


pretty danged accurate comment if u want my opinion.  yeah he isnt evil but the world needs a villian. better a guy who ruined a movie going experience than an actual evil person like those in power in sudan.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 04, 2006, 12:28:04 PM
I'm sorry, but this is too funny.  I really think you're getting into pearl-clutching here.  If you look at my posts, I say many, many positive things about TPM and the Star Wars universe in general and get nowhere near the territory of demanding a public lynching of George Lucas.  In fact, I proclaim myself "his bitch."  And just how, for example, is this:
Quote
At his heart, Lucas is an editor.  I wish, how I wish, he had relinquished some control of the prequel to those who had strengths he did not.

hatred and bashing?  I was only saying I wished he'd done things otherwise.  Just because I complain about some of his questionable moviemaking methods and mention the really obvious fact that his daughters didn't make the best decision of formal dress on the night of the AFI (which, no, I wouldn't have watched if I haaaaaaaaated him as much as has been suggested) doesn't mean I'm living my life attached to the notion that he deserves a place in hell next to Hitler.  If you think I'm being too harsh, then I suggest you cc your comments to Mike and Kevin, who, I believe, referred to him as "a four year old." 

Relax.  :)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: AvestheFox on November 04, 2006, 12:36:12 PM
the title 'The Phantom Menace' should had been for some random Super Hero flick.. the name is fitting for a new spandex freak who fights evil overlords.

Star Wars Epesode 1 should had hense been named Revenge of the Purple Dinosoar... in honor of the childishness and the freaky gungans who closely resemble anthromorphic lizards with large floppy ears.

Just a thought
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbasehart on November 04, 2006, 12:45:30 PM
If anyone were going to take over the Star Wars universe, I'd like it to be Joss Whedon.  Serenity was an enormous amount of fun and still managed to tell a dark story.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on November 04, 2006, 01:24:20 PM
If anyone were going to take over the Star Wars universe, I'd like it to be Joss Whedon.  Serenity was an enormous amount of fun and still managed to tell a dark story.
I'd be happy if they'd just let Joss get back to his universe. :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: starfighter on November 04, 2006, 08:07:54 PM
   But first Whedon has to bring Wonder Woman to the big screen.
    I also agree that we could stand to tone down any personal attacks on George Lucas (or most of the other directors people have been writing snarky comments about on these boards)  I was happy to see that Lucas retains a sense of humor about himself when he appeared on The Colbert Report and matched light sabers with Stephen.  We fans get all worked up about crap and we should be smart enough to keep some perspective on all of it.
    Besides, politics are where all the rotten bastards really are.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: IronPigeon on November 04, 2006, 09:06:03 PM
I feel so dirty.  So very, very dirty. I got bored and...and...bought a new copy of Phantom Menace.  And to top it all off, I got it at that most unholy of places.  Walmart.  This better be exceptionally good, Mike, to balance out all the evil deeds I've done tonight.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: AvestheFox on November 04, 2006, 09:11:20 PM
I feel so dirty.  So very, very dirty. I got bored and...and...bought a new copy of Phantom Menace.  And to top it all off, I got it at that most unholy of places.  Walmart.  This better be exceptionally good, Mike, to balance out all the evil deeds I've done tonight.

Mr. Pigeon, you'll servive ^_^

if it helps, I had 'willingly' bought the movie months ago just to complete my Star Wars DVD collection
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: IronPigeon on November 04, 2006, 11:33:04 PM
This is my first Star Wars dvd, though I do have the original trilogy on laserdisc.  It's the wave of the future, you know. That and betamax of course...which I also have. These dvd things will never catch on.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on November 05, 2006, 12:49:03 AM
You feel, dirty? I bought Phantom Menace on VHS when it came out. AND it was the special boxed edition with an art book and "collectible" lithograph because it was the only way to get the widescreen tape. And then I bought the movie again on DVD. And how did Lucas thank me for buying it again? By making the fakakta podrace even LONGER. Thanks, George. You shouldn't have. REALLY.

But yeah, the Lucas bashing gets a little out of hand. He may be a micro-managing tyrant when it comes to his little space opera, but who here wouldn't want to exert cromplete creative control over their beloved cash cow? And by all accounts, he does seem to be a down-to-earth family man, and generally good guy. I'd have a beer with him. (But not too many, 'cause I might just say something regrettable.)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: AvestheFox on November 05, 2006, 01:11:37 AM
You feel, dirty? I bought Phantom Menace on VHS when it came out. AND it was the special boxed edition with an art book and "collectible" lithograph because it was the only way to get the widescreen tape. And then I bought the movie again on DVD. And how did Lucas thank me for buying it again? By making the fakakta podrace even LONGER. Thanks, George. You shouldn't have. REALLY.

But yeah, the Lucas bashing gets a little out of hand. He may be a micro-managing tyrant when it comes to his little space opera, but who here wouldn't want to exert cromplete creative control over their beloved cash cow? And by all accounts, he does seem to be a down-to-earth family man, and generally good guy. I'd have a beer with him. (But not too many, 'cause I might just say something regrettable.)
Very well put, Sharky ^_^
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on November 05, 2006, 01:30:31 AM
I'm just proud I got to use the word "fakakta." I use far more Yiddish than an Irish boy should be allowed.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 05, 2006, 01:14:54 PM
Quote
And by all accounts, he does seem to be a down-to-earth family man, and generally good guy.

I really don't think anybody here has said anything to suggest that he isn't.  I don't think he's a bad guy, just suddenly batshit insane.  As I mentioned, Mike and Kevin were pretty dang harsh on him, and there hasn't been a tremendous amount of complaining about that.

I was let down by TPM, but there was still stuff to enjoy about it.  Where I think most of the fan base is angry with Lucas is when he started messing with the original trilogy.  Then he just started doing things that didn't even make any sense.   It wasn't a matter of taste or clinging to the old films, because who's going to complain about better sound or crisper images? It was that some of the changes just didn't mesh logically with the storyline or fundamentally altered the characters. 

It kind of reminds me of this story I heard about Michaelangelo-- that he came roaring into his studio one day and started smashing his own work because he didn't think it was any good.  His students finally tackled him and held him down to save the art.   
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 05, 2006, 02:28:39 PM
Wow, that's a great story.  ;D

I can understand how Lucas deeply offends people who really really really care about his work. I've felt the same way, not about him -- I don't have that emotional investment with his films -- but about other writers who I've felt have betrayed their own vision. Dorothy L. Sayers (I'm writing my graduate thesis on  her, so I go around quoting her at everyone I know :) ) says there are artistic sins just as there are moral sins. I believe that.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on November 06, 2006, 12:06:15 AM
I can understand how Lucas deeply offends people who really really really care about his work.

See here's the big paradox of fandom that I could never quite grok. Lucas created and presented to the world a universe. Through the years, a few generations have come to know and love this universe, which is a well-crafted, deep, vivid universe that excites the imagination and brings a sense of wonder to the kid in us all. But it's still his universe. It's him, not the fans, that get to decide whether there should be klutzy pidgen-English speaking aliens wandering about deep within it (And with a universe as vast as the Star Wars universe, it seems unlikely that there wouldn't be at least one, probably SEVERAL annoying characters like Jar Jar wandering around it.) Lucas' vision is still Lucas' vision. If the fans don't like Lucas' vision after they see a bit more of it, that isn't some horrible sin on Lucas' part. It's just a matter of taste and the occasionally painful realization that you don't like EVERYTHING about the Star Wars universe. And really, the universe is so big it's OK. It seems like the ones who profess to love it the most who are the most willing to throw it all out the window over one little thing they don't like.

Furthermore, if you're writing correctly, you're not concerned about what the masses are going to think. You're concerned about shaping the universe however you feel it needs to be shaped. If it catches the hearts of the masses, all the better. Lucas wasn't thinking about the masses, and more power to him! He was concerned with creating his story and create his story, he did! Everyone else is free to like or not like it. :^)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sheik Yerbouti on November 06, 2006, 03:02:19 AM
Furthermore, if you're writing correctly, you're not concerned about what the masses are going to think. You're concerned about shaping the universe however you feel it needs to be shaped. If it catches the hearts of the masses, all the better. Lucas wasn't thinking about the masses, and more power to him! He was concerned with creating his story and create his story, he did! Everyone else is free to like or not like it. :^)

So making a kid-friendly, catch-phrase spouting alien and plastering it's ugly mug on every conceivable piece of merchandise was part of George's artistic vision?  Really?  He wasn't thinking about selling toys to those unwashed masses?  How about the cute lil' battle droids who say "roger roger" all the time?  Sorry but I'm not buying it.  Sure, Lucas had a vision for the prequels and you can see what he was trying to achieve with the story arc but result was poorly executed.  If he had just handed the writing and directing chores to more qualified individuals, we may have gotten some good movies.  Lucas could have settled for Executive Producer and "Created By" credits and we'd all be calling him a genius.

And about this universe he created... The original films sparked the imaginations of many people from my generation who were lucky enough to see them the first time around in the theater, but all that Lucas did was provide an excellent framework, not the universe itself.  There were many, many blank spots and in the years after Return Of The Jedi the people that were inspired by those movies filled in the blank spots and made a real universe out of it.  Hell, I used to have the original Star Wars role playing game.  I remember that the excellent alien races supplement had the names and histories all worked out for every alien race shown in the Star Wars cantina scene.  You can't tell me all that backstory came from the brain of George Lucas.  People wanted to know more about those cool looking aliens so they invented their own stories.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Star Wars existed only in the minds of the fans for many years so by the time he came back to it his universe looked much different than when he had left it last. And personally I think that when George Lucas finally revisited the Star Wars universe, his imagination was pretty well tapped out.

Here's the best analogy I can come up with on a moment's notice.  Imagine that a man builds a beautiful house and allows you to live in it for five years and decorate it any way you see fit.  After five years, you've got the house exactly the way you like it.  Then the owner comes back and paints the entire thing mauve.  Who are you to complain?  It's his house, after all. 

Anyway, that's just the opinion of a disgruntled ex-Star Wars fan.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on November 06, 2006, 07:51:35 AM
I can understand how Lucas deeply offends people who really really really care about his work.

See here's the big paradox of fandom that I could never quite grok. Lucas created and presented to the world a universe. Through the years, a few generations have come to know and love this universe, which is a well-crafted, deep, vivid universe that excites the imagination and brings a sense of wonder to the kid in us all. But it's still his universe. It's him, not the fans, that get to decide whether there should be klutzy pidgen-English speaking aliens wandering about deep within it (And with a universe as vast as the Star Wars universe, it seems unlikely that there wouldn't be at least one, probably SEVERAL annoying characters like Jar Jar wandering around it.) Lucas' vision is still Lucas' vision. If the fans don't like Lucas' vision after they see a bit more of it, that isn't some horrible sin on Lucas' part. It's just a matter of taste and the occasionally painful realization that you don't like EVERYTHING about the Star Wars universe. And really, the universe is so big it's OK. It seems like the ones who profess to love it the most who are the most willing to throw it all out the window over one little thing they don't like.

Furthermore, if you're writing correctly, you're not concerned about what the masses are going to think. You're concerned about shaping the universe however you feel it needs to be shaped. If it catches the hearts of the masses, all the better. Lucas wasn't thinking about the masses, and more power to him! He was concerned with creating his story and create his story, he did! Everyone else is free to like or not like it. :^)

That's all true, but let's be fair.  (Before we start let it be known that I'd like to think I'm pro-Lucas if anything; like you said, they're his movies and they've given me a lot of joy).  When he first tinkered with the Classic Trilogy, he said it was because technology had forced him to make concessions on STAR WARS.  Okay, fine.  So he expanded Mos Eisley, add the Jabba scene.  He also made some wacky fixes, like Han vs. Greedo.  But then he announced he'd be doing the same to Empire and Jedi.  Okay, fine.  But then he kept tinkering with them, and adding things, and adding things, and adding things.  Where I start to object is placing Hayden Christiansen into JEDI, or altering the scense in EMPIRE b/w Vader and the Emperor.  Obviously, these weren't changes made due to technical limitations in the late 70s/early 80s.  And I think he grossly contradicted himself on his original reason for going back to alter the films, which was to match his "original vision."

The problems with TPM and ATOC, for me anyway, are purely of a film quality nature.  Not because I disagree with how he decided to tell his story -- they're his films -- it's just that they're pretty poorly made.  TPM has these long stretches of NOTHING, with way too much exposition.  Remember in STAR WARS, when in 10 seconds Moff Tarkin says "The remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.  The region governors will maintain control." or whatever?  In TPM, that would've been decompressed into 45 minutes, I guarantee, including boring scenes in the Senate and commlink chats, etc.

REVENGE OF THE SITH got it right.  Smart action and human drama.  It's up there with EMPIRE.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 06, 2006, 10:00:09 AM
Just to feed this Star Wars Prequelogy fangasm of debate - Lucas has been quoted as saying that the ONLY reason he made the prequels was for financial stability regarding his future endeavors.

To me - the prequels were less artistic and more of a marketing ploy for the above reason. The vacuum-droids, cutesy little kid, cuddly gungans, and hot Padme were all a part of that "how do I make money?" idea.

Now - is Lucas inanse? Probably not because he made millions.... But was his film a "success?" That depends on your definition of success. To me, the films cheapened the universe by adding bacterial force germs, and a weakling Vader. Did I love the SW universe less after the prequels? YES - absolutely... Midichloreans were all it took.

The angsty statements made by our boardlings in this thread are being made mostly for the same reason that /I/ am angsty toward the prequels - I felt like a great masterpiece had too many brushtrokes added onto it, which spoiled its artistic effect. Did we NEED all the politics? I don't think so.... Character-driven was the story with the original trilogy, and that wa DEFINTIELY nto the story with the prequels.

So - that being said - the creativity of Lucas is wonderful - the man has talent. But he utilized it, imho, the wrong way for his prequels. Such creative farting is okay for Ocean's 12, but STAR WARS??? FLIPPIN' STAR WARS???
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Argo-Puppy on November 06, 2006, 11:10:30 AM
Just for the record, does anyone know if Padme, Amidala or whatever her name is was supposed to be 10 years older than Anakin?

Also, was she supposed to give birth six months early because there was NO way she was nine months pregnant with twins.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 06, 2006, 11:51:32 AM
hehehe.... yeah..... I feel that argument

Anyway - She was /supposed/ to be 14 during TPM, while Ani was /supposed/ to be 10.

And yeah - that was a quick nine months (unless the distance between eps 2 and 3 was several months long)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dignan on November 06, 2006, 12:40:04 PM
I can tell you the exact moment George Lucas lost me:  Luke's girly-man scream as he nobly plummeted to his death instead of joining Darth Vader in the re-release of Empire Strikes Back.  The removal of that from the DVD release was definitely a plus, but that shouldn't have been a required repair in the first place.  I'm glad the original theatrical releases finally got to DVD, just because, yeah, it's Lucas' universe, yeah, he can do whatever the hell he wants to repair and restore and revise and revamp and rework and remake the movies he made, but the movies that I saw growing up as a kid are a part of history.  For all the "faults" and "flaws" of the original work, I think they should be preserved as is. 

 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Argo-Puppy on November 06, 2006, 12:48:03 PM
hehehe.... yeah..... I feel that argument

Anyway - She was /supposed/ to be 14 during TPM, while Ani was /supposed/ to be 10.

And yeah - that was a quick nine months (unless the distance between eps 2 and 3 was several months long)

Ohhh okay. Well I feel better about the age difference thing. For the pregnancy thing, no I was referring to the last of the prequels when Anakin chokes her because he thinks she's against him. Her tummy was so tiny! In the real world, I doubt Anakin would have been able to reach her throat without some serious smooshing of little babies.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: darthvedder81 on November 06, 2006, 12:59:46 PM
hehehe.... yeah..... I feel that argument

Anyway - She was /supposed/ to be 14 during TPM, while Ani was /supposed/ to be 10.

And yeah - that was a quick nine months (unless the distance between eps 2 and 3 was several months long)

SITH takes place roughly two years after CLONES.

I'm enjoying all of these insanely nitpicky complaints about the movies. My God, could any other film stand up to this kind of scrutiny? Probably not since no other film series is so insanely huge and all encompassing as the mighty Star Wars saga. I mean nobody gives a crap about plot inconsistencies in the "Fantastic Four".

These are fairy-tale space operas that feature prominently 8 ft ape men wearing bandoliers. Maybe you could have some fun and quit expecting perfect logic in every mundane detail?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 06, 2006, 01:18:08 PM
hehehe.... yeah..... I feel that argument

Anyway - She was /supposed/ to be 14 during TPM, while Ani was /supposed/ to be 10.

And yeah - that was a quick nine months (unless the distance between eps 2 and 3 was several months long)

SITH takes place roughly two years after CLONES.

I'm enjoying all of these insanely nitpicky complaints about the movies. My God, could any other film stand up to this kind of scrutiny? Probably not since no other film series is so insanely huge and all encompassing as the mighty Star Wars saga. I mean nobody gives a crap about plot inconsistencies in the "Fantastic Four".

These are fairy-tale space operas that feature prominently 8 ft ape men wearing bandoliers. Maybe you could have some fun and quit expecting perfect logic in every mundane detail?

Perhaps you should pay attention to my post rather than shoot back defensivley. I stated what the two characters' ages were, and mentioned that the time distance between 2 and 3 needed to be considered. Now - as for Fantastic Four, that movie was in no way as revolutionary or special as Star Wars was to our cinema. So if we hold movies with the title Star Wars on them to a high level of scrutiny, then I believe it to be justified.

Chillax brothuh' - discussing movies is why we're here, and Star Wars was just riffed for EVERY reason people have pointed out in this forum - may there be long life and peace between all of us =).

Here's a bunch of other inconsistencies I found:
Why couldn't the force be used to.....
1.) Stop the gigantic hunk of aircraft they were in from crashing on Coruscant after rescuing the Chancellor?
2.) Knock a bunch of little spidery droids off the side of Ben's spaceship (opening scene)? I mean - the force can be used to get proton torpedoes into a two-meter shaft....
3.) Hoist yourself /up/ an elevator shaft while carrying some dudes on your back?
4.) Determine that Padme had twins? Should've seen that one coming....

When you think about it - there's a lot of those examples throughout all three prequels.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dlobro1080 on November 06, 2006, 02:00:56 PM
>>
Here's a bunch of other inconsistencies I found:
Why couldn't the force be used to.....
1.) Stop the gigantic hunk of aircraft they were in from crashing on Coruscant after rescuing the Chancellor?
2.) Knock a bunch of little spidery droids off the side of Ben's spaceship (opening scene)? I mean - the force can be used to get proton torpedoes into a two-meter shaft....
3.) Hoist yourself /up/ an elevator shaft while carrying some dudes on your back?
4.) Determine that Padme had twins? Should've seen that one coming....

When you think about it - there's a lot of those examples throughout all three prequels.<<


Sorry but these are the criticisms that mean either A) you're being too nitpicky or B) the movie isn't working for you.  In Peter Jackson's King Kong, why doesn't the ice in Central Park break when Kong is sliding all over it?  Because it's a movie, and it's going to take liberties with our rules in order to achieve excitement and elicit emotions.  If you ask questions like that, the movie's lost you.  In SITH, the answer to all the above is that the movie would be pretty boring if the Jedi could forsee and deal with any and all problems.  Should Anakin have been able to force-push the Buzz droids away?  Maybe, but I never considered it.  The scene was too thrilling for me to think about it otherwise.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dignan on November 06, 2006, 02:15:09 PM
Well now, Kong seemed pretty graceful, I wouldn't put it past a layer of thick-enough ice to hold his body weight.  The ice cracked when they launched a rocket at it, anyway.  A bigger question could be:  what the hell happened to Billy Eliot in that movie?  And why was he given such a prominent role only to have absolutely no point to it whatsoever, and to pretty much disappear after his Mr. Eko-like guardian died? 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 06, 2006, 02:53:11 PM
>>
Here's a bunch of other inconsistencies I found:
Why couldn't the force be used to.....
1.) Stop the gigantic hunk of aircraft they were in from crashing on Coruscant after rescuing the Chancellor?
2.) Knock a bunch of little spidery droids off the side of Ben's spaceship (opening scene)? I mean - the force can be used to get proton torpedoes into a two-meter shaft....
3.) Hoist yourself /up/ an elevator shaft while carrying some dudes on your back?
4.) Determine that Padme had twins? Should've seen that one coming....

When you think about it - there's a lot of those examples throughout all three prequels.<<


Sorry but these are the criticisms that mean either A) you're being too nitpicky or B) the movie isn't working for you.  In Peter Jackson's King Kong, why doesn't the ice in Central Park break when Kong is sliding all over it?  Because it's a movie, and it's going to take liberties with our rules in order to achieve excitement and elicit emotions.  If you ask questions like that, the movie's lost you.  In SITH, the answer to all the above is that the movie would be pretty boring if the Jedi could forsee and deal with any and all problems.  Should Anakin have been able to force-push the Buzz droids away?  Maybe, but I never considered it.  The scene was too thrilling for me to think about it otherwise.

The movies /didn't/ work for me. Hence my enjoyment that TPM would be riffed and my outward profession that these were overall unjenjoyable to me (ROTS was decent however). And another thing - I was one of the people that went "Why the heck didn't that ice break? This movie kind of sucks..." when Kong did his ice ballerina dance. Even in the Godfather trilogy, I am bugged by head-shots not automatically killing people. Why the heck can steven siegal take down a chopper with a nine mil?

I like consistency and continuity in movies and I feel like Georgio dug a hole for himself with the prequels - that's all. Period. Can't change my mind about it. Many people would agree with me that he sort of screwed with the prestige of the original trilogy. Do I think Lucas is insane? I already said - no. He set out to make a lot of money, which he publicly stated over and over again, and he made millions - so his plan worked and I'm glad he can feed himself now for several hudnred years. But I (along with many other people) didn't like the prequels because it didn't stay true to the original mythos, and it didn't seem to adhere to it either.

Do I at all look down on people who liked the prequels? Absolutely not! We all have different tastes. Do I think that George sucks? Of coruse not! He made the original trilogy as well as Indiana Jones which are my staple rainy-day movies. Should the Star Wars saga continue to be riffed? Of course! Riff on Mike! Riff on!

Simply because I don't like Eps 1-3 very much, doesn't make me a haughty, arrogant, blind, unartistic movie-twit. I think that my reasoning is solid. And whatever reasons you all may have for /liking/ the prequels, more power to you. There were lots of really neat images and action sequences. I guess I'm just more orthodox and prefer the original trilogy more, which, when last I checked, was not a crime.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 06, 2006, 03:29:00 PM
Logically put, J-Proof.

Quote
For the pregnancy thing, no I was referring to the last of the prequels when Anakin chokes her because he thinks she's against him. Her tummy was so tiny!

My sister was with child when she saw this movie and did a great deal of snorting over the pretext that a woman who was that far along could run down a ramp the way Padme did.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 06, 2006, 03:37:49 PM
Furthermore, if you're writing correctly, you're not concerned about what the masses are going to think. You're concerned about shaping the universe however you feel it needs to be shaped. If it catches the hearts of the masses, all the better. Lucas wasn't thinking about the masses, and more power to him! He was concerned with creating his story and create his story, he did! Everyone else is free to like or not like it. :^)

So making a kid-friendly, catch-phrase spouting alien and plastering it's ugly mug on every conceivable piece of merchandise was part of George's artistic vision?  Really?  He wasn't thinking about selling toys to those unwashed masses?  How about the cute lil' battle droids who say "roger roger" all the time?  Sorry but I'm not buying it.  Sure, Lucas had a vision for the prequels and you can see what he was trying to achieve with the story arc but result was poorly executed.  If he had just handed the writing and directing chores to more qualified individuals, we may have gotten some good movies.  Lucas could have settled for Executive Producer and "Created By" credits and we'd all be calling him a genius.

And about this universe he created... The original films sparked the imaginations of many people from my generation who were lucky enough to see them the first time around in the theater, but all that Lucas did was provide an excellent framework, not the universe itself.  There were many, many blank spots and in the years after Return Of The Jedi the people that were inspired by those movies filled in the blank spots and made a real universe out of it.  Hell, I used to have the original Star Wars role playing game.  I remember that the excellent alien races supplement had the names and histories all worked out for every alien race shown in the Star Wars cantina scene.  You can't tell me all that backstory came from the brain of George Lucas.  People wanted to know more about those cool looking aliens so they invented their own stories.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Star Wars existed only in the minds of the fans for many years so by the time he came back to it his universe looked much different than when he had left it last. And personally I think that when George Lucas finally revisited the Star Wars universe, his imagination was pretty well tapped out.

Here's the best analogy I can come up with on a moment's notice.  Imagine that a man builds a beautiful house and allows you to live in it for five years and decorate it any way you see fit.  After five years, you've got the house exactly the way you like it.  Then the owner comes back and paints the entire thing mauve.  Who are you to complain?  It's his house, after all. 

Anyway, that's just the opinion of a disgruntled ex-Star Wars fan.

Well put, Tom Sirvaux.

If I feel that the creator of a show/movie series/book series truly cares about what he's doing and is writing with integrity and heart, I don't mind if he comes up with different fates for his characters than I would imagine. If I feel that he doesn't really give a crap about any of it and has the characters do and say stupid and ridiculous things just because it's how his whim happened to take him at the moment, I'm angry. If you're going to do the work and try to get people to care, for heaven's sake, TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

(Anyone who's interested in a very in-depth treatment of some of this stuff, read Sayers's The Mind of the Maker sometime. :) Just so you know, there's a lot of Christian theology mixed in with it.)
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Pak-Man on November 06, 2006, 04:54:47 PM
I guess I just hope that it never comes to the point where _I_ manage to create a megafranchise story, the world becomes enamoured by it, and then when I say, "And now I want to introduce a new character. He's a little bit goofy, but he fits my vision!" and the world vehemently yells back, "To heck with your vision! Get that guy out of our story or we no longer recognize your ability to rule the universe you created and we now own!"
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: LadyKenobi on November 06, 2006, 05:16:14 PM
But I think in art, once you create something and send it out there, it really is no longer yours.  Art is meant to be shared.  You made it to express your vision, yes, but what's the point if nobody else sees it? 

I went through this a bit when an essay of mine was accepted for an anthology.  The contract came, and I sat there with my pen hovering over it, unable to tear my eyes away from the words "owns all exclusive rights, trademarks, and reprints to".  Did this mean the essay wasn't mine anymore?  Then I realized... in order for this work to do what I had intended for it, I had to let it go.  It wasn't meant to be mine.  I signed.

I think the anger isn't that Lucas "violates our vision," it's that many feel he bismirched his own.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on November 06, 2006, 05:32:11 PM
But I think in art, once you create something and send it out there, it really is no longer yours.  Art is meant to be shared.  You made it to express your vision, yes, but what's the point if nobody else sees it? 

I went through this a bit when I recently published an essay in an anthology.  The contract came, and I sat there with my pen hovering over it, unable to tear my eyes away from the words "owns all exclusive rights, trademarks, and reprints to".  Did this mean the essay wasn't mine anymore?  Then I realized... in order for this work to do what I had intended for it, I had to let it go.  It wasn't meant to be mine.  I signed.

This has nothing to do with anything, but LadyK's comment reminded me of Jeff Rowland over at http://overcompensating.com (http://overcompensating.com) and his one-man crusade to let everyone know that any intellectual property posted on MySpace becomes the legal property of NewsCorp (AKA Rupert Murdoch) according to the user's agreement. (Which nobody ever reads.) Just thought that was worth noting.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: PlayMSTie on November 06, 2006, 05:46:41 PM
A LITTLE bit goofy, Pak-Man???  :D He's like nails on a chalkboard!

Anyway, I agree with LadyKenobi (again. I think I've found my long-lost psychic double here :) ). For an artist to have a good vision and be faithful to it -- that's all I ask.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 06, 2006, 05:49:38 PM
But I think in art, once you create something and send it out there, it really is no longer yours.  Art is meant to be shared.  You made it to express your vision, yes, but what's the point if nobody else sees it? 

I went through this a bit when I recently published an essay in an anthology.  The contract came, and I sat there with my pen hovering over it, unable to tear my eyes away from the words "owns all exclusive rights, trademarks, and reprints to".  Did this mean the essay wasn't mine anymore?  Then I realized... in order for this work to do what I had intended for it, I had to let it go.  It wasn't meant to be mine.  I signed.

I think the anger isn't that Lucas "violates our vision," it's that many feel he bismirched his own.

Fabulously stated, Ladyk!

In art school, we went through this very topic until it was lying dead on the ground from over-pokeage. Basically, when you create a piece of artwork, and it becomes renowned by many, the piece doesn't really become theirs, but the feeling is somewhat personalized for each person it touches. If I created a piece of artwork that was ground-breakingly sweet, and switched gears on it with a companion piece that doesn't seem to fit at all, my original admirers are left feeling cheated because a.) they seem to fear that I am incapable of fulfilling that which I set out to do and b.) they feel like they may never get an official completion of my original vision.

**The pain of the admirers is both for themselves and for me in this situation**

Lucas isn't the only one though - name any movie with a successful sequel, and I can probably give you three more that had horrible sequels. Rush Hour came to mind for some reason....

Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Ivan Druzhkov on November 07, 2006, 10:30:13 AM
(http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/Unkempt2.jpg)

You know, the instant I saw this, I developed this fantasy sequence where the Battle of Yavin is raging, Luke and his wingmen are flying down the various canyons of the Death Star (though why a giant space station needs canyons is never explained) heading towards their target, shouting Top Gun-esque jargon at each other...but up in Luke's fighter, Tom Servo is in Full Ditzy Minnesotan Housewife mode, babbling his spiel from the end of "Manos" a mile a minute, over all the shouting and laserblasts, going on and on about his Twenty-Year Plan, drinking 12 glasses of water a day, and how in the humidity his hair explodes, just ex-PLO-Ho-hodes!

Ah, good stuff...
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: mrbasehart on November 07, 2006, 01:07:34 PM
(http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/Unkempt2.jpg)

YOUR battle of the millenium...Tom Servo vs R2D2!
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: BBQ Platypus on November 07, 2006, 01:50:09 PM
I guess I just hope that it never comes to the point where _I_ manage to create a megafranchise story, the world becomes enamoured by it, and then when I say, "And now I want to introduce a new character. He's a little bit goofy, but he fits my vision!" and the world vehemently yells back, "To heck with your vision! Get that guy out of our story or we no longer recognize your ability to rule the universe you created and we now own!"

PUNK:
You declared you would be three inches taller
You only became what we made you
Thought you were chasing a destiny calling
You only earned what we gave you
You fell and cried as our people were starving
Now you know that we blame you
You tried to walk on the trail we were carving
Now you know that we framed you


GODFATHER:
I'm the guy in the sky
Flying high Flashing eyes
No surprise I told lies
I'm the punk in the gutter
I'm the new president
But I grew and I bent
Don't you know? Don't it show?
I'm the punk with the stutter

(My my my my my
GGGGG-g-g-g-g generation)

PUNK:
We tried to speak between lines of oration
You could only repeat what we told you
Your axe belongs to a dying nation
They don't know that we own you
You're watching movies trying to find the feelers
You only see what we show you
We're the slaves of the phony leaders
Breathe the air we have blown you


GODFATHER:
I'm the guy etc.

I must be careful not to preach
I can't pretend that I can teach
And yet I've lived your future out
By pounding stages like a clown
And on the dance floor broken glass
The bloody faces slowly pass
The broken seats in empty rows
It all belongs to me, you know
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: J-Proof on November 07, 2006, 02:10:25 PM
I guess I just hope that it never comes to the point where _I_ manage to create a megafranchise story, the world becomes enamoured by it, and then when I say, "And now I want to introduce a new character. He's a little bit goofy, but he fits my vision!" and the world vehemently yells back, "To heck with your vision! Get that guy out of our story or we no longer recognize your ability to rule the universe you created and we now own!"

PUNK:
You declared you would be three inches taller
You only became what we made you
Thought you were chasing a destiny calling
You only earned what we gave you
You fell and cried as our people were starving
Now you know that we blame you
You tried to walk on the trail we were carving
Now you know that we framed you


GODFATHER:
I'm the guy in the sky
Flying high Flashing eyes
No surprise I told lies
I'm the punk in the gutter
I'm the new president
But I grew and I bent
Don't you know? Don't it show?
I'm the punk with the stutter

(My my my my my
GGGGG-g-g-g-g generation)

PUNK:
We tried to speak between lines of oration
You could only repeat what we told you
Your axe belongs to a dying nation
They don't know that we own you
You're watching movies trying to find the feelers
You only see what we show you
We're the slaves of the phony leaders
Breathe the air we have blown you


GODFATHER:
I'm the guy etc.

I must be careful not to preach
I can't pretend that I can teach
And yet I've lived your future out
By pounding stages like a clown
And on the dance floor broken glass
The bloody faces slowly pass
The broken seats in empty rows
It all belongs to me, you know


?
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: dignan on November 07, 2006, 02:15:46 PM
It's The Who, from their Quadrophenia album, the song "The Punk vs. The Godfather."  One of the key songs of the album.  Great album about the Mods vs. Rocker battles of 1960's England. 
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on November 07, 2006, 03:00:25 PM
Dear Platypus,

You appear to be awesome. Keep up the good work.

Cheers, The Sharktopus

Now I'm on the lookout for any chance to quote Who songs.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: BBQ Platypus on November 07, 2006, 03:19:54 PM
Dear Platypus,

You appear to be awesome. Keep up the good work.

Cheers, The Sharktopus

Now I'm on the lookout for any chance to quote Who songs.

Be sure to show a bit more variety, though.  Although the Who kick about 2,000 kazabatrillion square feet of ass, it's fun to confuse people by posting extremely obscure song lyrics.  I occasionally throw in some Frank Zappa, and I once confused the crap out of everyone by posting lyrics to a song by the Residents.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: Sharktopus on November 07, 2006, 03:44:35 PM
Be sure to show a bit more variety, though.  Although the Who kick about 2,000 kazabatrillion square feet of ass, it's fun to confuse people by posting extremely obscure song lyrics.  I occasionally throw in some Frank Zappa, and I once confused the crap out of everyone by posting lyrics to a song by the Residents.

It always amazed me how the Residents manage to make such interesting music having giant eyeballs for heads. If I were so deformed I'd just sit back and let the sweet freakshow moolah pour in.
Title: Re: THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!
Post by: BBQ Platypus on November 07, 2006, 04:04:06 PM
Be sure to show a bit more variety, though.  Although the Who kick about 2,000 kazabatrillion square feet of ass, it's fun to confuse people by posting extremely obscure song lyrics.  I occasionally throw in some Frank Zappa, and I once confused the crap out of everyone by posting lyrics to a song by the Residents.

It always amazed me how the Residents manage to make such interesting music having giant eyeballs for heads. If I were so deformed I'd just sit back and let the sweet freakshow moolah pour in.

Hmm.  They're probably allergic to circus peanuts.