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General Discussion => Books 'n Readin' => Topic started by: Chaos on July 20, 2007, 09:30:34 PM

Title: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Chaos on July 20, 2007, 09:30:34 PM
Ok, it's now midnight on the east coast. Companies have begun shipping out copies, people are receiving them. Let's talk about Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows!!

Remember... out of respect for anyone still reading the book, let's stick to spoiler tabs for at least a few weeks, so we don't ruin anything for those who aren't able to get a copy right away, or who choose not to read the book in 5 hours. ;)

I'm also going to be a little vague even beneath the spoiler tags, just in case someone clicks on them who doesn't want to know too much.

I thought it was a pretty good book overall, and it brought the series to a satisfactory close... but I was a little surprised about some of the events in the development stage of the story, and also a bit disappointed that some ideas were not really touched on at all.

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On the whole, I'd say I was pretty satisfied with the book. I give it an 8/10.

Lemme know what you guys think!
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: googergieger on July 21, 2007, 01:33:30 AM
i'd say i was right.
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: SharpMonkey on July 21, 2007, 01:07:55 PM
I stayed up very late reading the whole book (haven't slept since I started it!) and I must say: the book delivered satisfaction to me in so many ways! 
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...it was all a joy to take in.  I'm looking forward to re-reading this one in the very near future!

In response to what ChaosFromOrder posted about his wishes for Slytherin house (trying not to quote spoilers here...):
I see what you mean, but I was so swept away with the unfolding events that this didn't really slow me down much.  I hope there will be more material about
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if there's any truth to the rumors that Mrs. Rowling is going to do a book of Harry Potter related short stories.  Still, as far as giving closure to the tale of Harry Potter, I think the seventh book did a fantastic job. 

Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Big Blonde on July 22, 2007, 07:01:32 AM
I stayed up real late to finish it too, and early in the morning, when I had read the last page, I thought that Rowling had redeemed herself in my eyes (I've been disappointed, in some ways, with every book since the third one). Looking back on it know, after sleep, I'm still a little miffed on how she ended things.

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Chaos on July 22, 2007, 11:28:35 AM
I stayed up real late to finish it too, and early in the morning, when I had read the last page, I thought that Rowling had redeemed herself in my eyes (I've been disappointed, in some ways, with every book since the third one). Looking back on it know, after sleep, I'm still a little miffed on how she ended things.

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Tripe on July 22, 2007, 12:02:08 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: anais.jude on July 22, 2007, 12:24:27 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Ator the Invincible on July 22, 2007, 01:07:51 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on July 22, 2007, 01:43:26 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Big Blonde on July 22, 2007, 01:59:26 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Bob on July 22, 2007, 02:10:10 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: DrForester on July 22, 2007, 02:16:48 PM
Overall, I really enjoyed the book.  I thought the epilogue was a bit campy though.

One major story point that everyone seemed to expect an answer for was not ans2wered and I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't.

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Chaos on July 22, 2007, 03:53:46 PM
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Re: 1 and 2, that is part of why I thought it felt tacked on and dashed off. It answered only 2 little points, and left everything else totally unresolved and unmentioned.

Re: 3 - agreed, that was a neat moment.

Re: 6 - I kinda got the same impression.
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Re: 7 -
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sarc:

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Big Blond:

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One major story point that everyone seemed to expect an answer for was not ans2wered and I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't.

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DrForester:

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: YoohooRiffer on July 22, 2007, 05:10:50 PM
There are a lot of
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in this thread.

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Tripe on July 22, 2007, 05:43:52 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on July 22, 2007, 07:48:55 PM
re: chaos

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: AmandaGal on July 22, 2007, 08:20:28 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on July 22, 2007, 08:22:01 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Natureboy on July 22, 2007, 11:10:50 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Chaos on July 23, 2007, 03:07:26 AM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Ator the Invincible on July 23, 2007, 05:51:57 AM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Chaos on July 23, 2007, 07:07:15 AM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 - 'PROOF's REVIEW
Post by: J-Proof on July 23, 2007, 01:42:07 PM
Before you read my review, here's my disclaimer about my overall Potter knowledge:

If you followed any of my previous posts regarding Potter and his band of young wizardlings, you'll know that I didn't read the entire series. I read the first two books but stopped due to lack of interest, but continued on through the movies. When I heard the seventh book was due out, I couldn't help it, I had to know what the fate of The Boy that Lived would be. Since Potter-fanatics are in no short supply (especially within my group of friends), I was quickly put through Hogwart boot-camp to get me caught up (so sue me, I'll read the previous books later!!).

That being said, I pretty much already knew what I needed to know to get me painlessly through the Seventh and last book, with the exception of what exactly a Horcrux was (and that explanation is pretty simple).

On to the review!
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: J-Proof on July 23, 2007, 01:52:54 PM
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Big Blonde:
What I gathered was
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I may be wrong... but I thought that was the mcguffin Volde didn't detect.
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: MarkAndrew on July 23, 2007, 02:11:37 PM
I finished yesterday and I liked it.  It wasn't structured like the other 6 books and JKR took some very laudable risks with not only the last book...but the whole series.

Spoiler-ish thoughts
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: J-Proof on July 23, 2007, 02:50:39 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: YoohooRiffer on July 24, 2007, 06:32:51 AM
Well I don't know about the rest of you but i'm looking forward to Harry Potter and the Balance of Earth.

[yt=425,350]_QjCv41L7N0[/yt]
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: DrForester on July 24, 2007, 06:54:47 AM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: RobtheBarbarian on July 24, 2007, 06:56:00 AM
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That's just a silly looking string of posts right there.  :D
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: J-Proof on July 24, 2007, 10:15:34 AM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: MSTJedi on July 27, 2007, 11:36:07 AM
Okay, finished the book last night . . . or this morning, actually (around 6am). Had to wait for my wife to read it first since she's the one who got the book. First off, loved it. It was a little hard to get into it at first, though. Not because of the story itself, but because of the distractions of being a husband and father. So last night I decided to stay up and finish it off after everyone was asleep. Glad I did. Made the book much more enjoyable.

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Chaos on July 28, 2007, 04:13:00 AM
The only thing that confused me...

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: MSTJedi on July 28, 2007, 07:49:30 PM
The only thing that confused me...

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Funny enough, I actually figured it out by reading the synopsis on the Wikipedia entry. Who says that site isn't good for anything?
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: DrForester on July 29, 2007, 07:15:04 PM
Okay, finished the book last night . . . or this morning, actually (around 6am). Had to wait for my wife to read it first since she's the one who got the book. First off, loved it. It was a little hard to get into it at first, though. Not because of the story itself, but because of the distractions of being a husband and father. So last night I decided to stay up and finish it off after everyone was asleep. Glad I did. Made the book much more enjoyable.

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Chaos on July 29, 2007, 08:58:57 PM
Okay, finished the book last night . . . or this morning, actually (around 6am). Had to wait for my wife to read it first since she's the one who got the book. First off, loved it. It was a little hard to get into it at first, though. Not because of the story itself, but because of the distractions of being a husband and father. So last night I decided to stay up and finish it off after everyone was asleep. Glad I did. Made the book much more enjoyable.

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My wife said the exact same thing, and I pretty much agree.

Also,
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: sarcasm_made_Easy on August 20, 2007, 04:38:59 PM
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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: msmpls on September 07, 2007, 07:59:34 AM
Does Harry Potter die?
(I never read any of the books, never seen the movies, really don't care about the franchise, I just want to know if he kicks the bucket or not)
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Tripe on September 07, 2007, 08:01:56 AM
Nope
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: msmpls on September 07, 2007, 08:04:58 AM
and the franchise lives on!
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Tripe on September 07, 2007, 08:11:49 AM
I hope to God not, though judging by the end there's certainly leeway.

Actually I heard Joanne's writing a detective novel next.
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Fuzzy Necromancer on February 28, 2008, 02:36:35 PM
I have a lot of thoughts about this, but the one most pressing on my mind is

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: headlesschocolatebunny on February 28, 2008, 02:41:10 PM
I have a lot of thoughts about this, but the one most pressing on my mind is

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I completely agree w/ you! plus there was so much death that by the time Lupin dies it is mentioned as an off handed comment! I had to re-read atleast 4 times for it to really sink in. I thought that was heartless!
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Fortis on February 28, 2008, 10:44:05 PM
I have a lot of thoughts about this, but the one most pressing on my mind is

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There is a way things have to be done in writing stories, stories differ from reality, the heroes have to dabble in illegal things. The heroes have to do everything and anything they can to stop the bad guys. If the heroes had an easy time of it without moral dilemma's, than the villain is obviously not scary/cool enough. Trust me, its good for characters to have this happen. And there were moral dilemma's to it, JK rowling just left us to deal with them, if she showed the repercussions it would slow down the pacing, because they aren't needed. Especially since this isn't the first time we have seen our heroes use them.

If you were on that cart, going into Gringotts and you knew that the only way you could find the thing you need to bring down the bad guy, was to take control of another person, would you do anything different? Would you say to the Goblin...hi, I need to break into somebody's vault, but no, I"m not stealing money, I'm stealing something from you know freakin who, but if I destroy it, it could potentially kill him..." You think he is going to let you? Even if he did, all those freaking death eaters had to do then was torture the goblin into telling them that he helped them. But by you casting that horrible spell on him, you get the thing and help destroy moldymort.

Well then...that is why she used them, sure they are horrible, they are illegal...I mean torture, loss of free will, and murder...I agree that those are prisonable offences...But sometimes the hero has to take matters into his own hand. (I'm still talking about harry potter)

I have a lot of thoughts about this, but the one most pressing on my mind is

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I completely agree w/ you! plus there was so much death that by the time Lupin dies it is mentioned as an off handed comment! I had to re-read atleast 4 times for it to really sink in. I thought that was heartless!

Lupin's death wasn't an off hand comment, she used that part to shock people...as you obviously were. Those types of deaths create atmosphere, and pacing. If you are in a battle scene with dozens of characters you care about, the best thing the author can do is cause shock to readers by some people's sudden unexpected deaths. If JK Rowling had spent a lot of time on each characters death, the last chapter would be slow, with exposition interrupting action and emotion. Sure it can be dissatisfiying, but I fail to see how an author could have handled it better than her and still have the heart racing non stop action throughout that she was able to achieve. she handled it beautifully.

Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Tripe on February 29, 2008, 04:55:24 AM
A problem I have with the books is that they become increasingly cruel. Not within the narrative per se, because it can be argued that hey the world is facing a great evil and thus tit seems darker. No, the general thrust of the books just becomes crueler and even the "good" characters become nasty pieces of work.

The death of the fox at the beginning of the fifth book really solidified my distaste for them.

And everythings so bleeding one dimensional.
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Fortis on February 29, 2008, 11:31:19 AM
I dunno. I don't think she knows how to write a death; every one of her "deaths" was really, really anticlimactic.  And yeah, some smartass, glib responder will say "well that's how death is in real life--"  Well, firstly I don't agree, but it's possible to argue that way--but more importantly, it's just bad storytelling. 

All her deaths just seem like...wait, what the fuck just happened?

I dunno. She's got a good sense of creating a world, and she draws you in, but she's not a prose stylist or a master of exposition. I think Fortis gives her far too much credit.

I will give you that her deaths are kind of "holy crap" moments when they don't have to be, especially during books 1 - 6. Book 7 I think it is handled well, because deaths like that need to happen during scenes of battle. But you have to cut her a little slack, she is a novice writer who suddenly got thrown into this pit of success with bajillions of fans to make happy.

She is by far not my favorite author at all, the best way she can think up making names for things is to look in a Latin dictionary. Her books can drag from the beginning till the end, and it seems to me that she had mixed feelings between what kind of character she wanted to make Harry, so he becomes this character that is hard to relate to.

I to, can see the weaknesses of the Harry Potter books, but, I still think the seventh book was written very well, the seventh book was where all of her writing strengths are finally able to overshadow her weaknesses. You have to give her this though, she is a master at foreshadowing, even if not with prose or narrative.
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Fuzzy Necromancer on February 29, 2008, 11:36:49 AM
I have a lot of thoughts about this, but the one most pressing on my mind is

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There is a way things have to be done in writing stories, stories differ from reality, the heroes have to dabble in illegal things. The heroes have to do everything and anything they can to stop the bad guys. If the heroes had an easy time of it without moral dilemma's, than the villain is obviously not scary/cool enough. Trust me, its good for characters to have this happen. And there were moral dilemma's to it, JK rowling just left us to deal with them, if she showed the repercussions it would slow down the pacing, because they aren't needed. Especially since this isn't the first time we have seen our heroes use them.

If you were on that cart, going into Gringotts and you knew that the only way you could find the thing you need to bring down the bad guy, was to take control of another person, would you do anything different? Would you say to the Goblin...hi, I need to break into somebody's vault, but no, I"m not stealing money, I'm stealing something from you know freakin who, but if I destroy it, it could potentially kill him..." You think he is going to let you? Even if he did, all those freaking death eaters had to do then was torture the goblin into telling them that he helped them. But by you casting that horrible spell on him, you get the thing and help destroy moldymort.

Well then...that is why she used them, sure they are horrible, they are illegal...I mean torture, loss of free will, and murder...I agree that those are prisonable offences...But sometimes the hero has to take matters into his own hand. (I'm still talking about harry potter)

I have a lot of thoughts about this, but the one most pressing on my mind is

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I completely agree w/ you! plus there was so much death that by the time Lupin dies it is mentioned as an off handed comment! I had to re-read atleast 4 times for it to really sink in. I thought that was heartless!

Lupin's death wasn't an off hand comment, she used that part to shock people...as you obviously were. Those types of deaths create atmosphere, and pacing. If you are in a battle scene with dozens of characters you care about, the best thing the author can do is cause shock to readers by some people's sudden unexpected deaths. If JK Rowling had spent a lot of time on each characters death, the last chapter would be slow, with exposition interrupting action and emotion. Sure it can be dissatisfiying, but I fail to see how an author could have handled it better than her and still have the heart racing non stop action throughout that she was able to achieve. she handled it beautifully.




Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Fortis on February 29, 2008, 11:58:49 AM
I have a lot of thoughts about this, but the one most pressing on my mind is

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There is a way things have to be done in writing stories, stories differ from reality, the heroes have to dabble in illegal things. The heroes have to do everything and anything they can to stop the bad guys. If the heroes had an easy time of it without moral dilemma's, than the villain is obviously not scary/cool enough. Trust me, its good for characters to have this happen. And there were moral dilemma's to it, JK rowling just left us to deal with them, if she showed the repercussions it would slow down the pacing, because they aren't needed. Especially since this isn't the first time we have seen our heroes use them.

If you were on that cart, going into Gringotts and you knew that the only way you could find the thing you need to bring down the bad guy, was to take control of another person, would you do anything different? Would you say to the Goblin...hi, I need to break into somebody's vault, but no, I"m not stealing money, I'm stealing something from you know freakin who, but if I destroy it, it could potentially kill him..." You think he is going to let you? Even if he did, all those freaking death eaters had to do then was torture the goblin into telling them that he helped them. But by you casting that horrible spell on him, you get the thing and help destroy moldymort.

Well then...that is why she used them, sure they are horrible, they are illegal...I mean torture, loss of free will, and murder...I agree that those are prisonable offences...But sometimes the hero has to take matters into his own hand. (I'm still talking about harry potter)

I have a lot of thoughts about this, but the one most pressing on my mind is

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I completely agree w/ you! plus there was so much death that by the time Lupin dies it is mentioned as an off handed comment! I had to re-read atleast 4 times for it to really sink in. I thought that was heartless!

Lupin's death wasn't an off hand comment, she used that part to shock people...as you obviously were. Those types of deaths create atmosphere, and pacing. If you are in a battle scene with dozens of characters you care about, the best thing the author can do is cause shock to readers by some people's sudden unexpected deaths. If JK Rowling had spent a lot of time on each characters death, the last chapter would be slow, with exposition interrupting action and emotion. Sure it can be dissatisfiying, but I fail to see how an author could have handled it better than her and still have the heart racing non stop action throughout that she was able to achieve. she handled it beautifully.




Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can accept that. I think it is Harry Potter's character that is flawed, in my previous post I say JK Rowling seemed to be torn between two characterizations of Harry Potter's character. She wanted him to be an "anti hero" type character who goes around doing dark shocking things, but isn't necessarily a bad guy. The other thing she wanted, was a self sacrificing boy who experiences righteous indignation to bring about his means. What we get, is a boy whos character doesn't match 20 pages after him using an unforgivable curse. And, I agree, Mcgonigal using an unforgivable curse is not cool, at all. She is a powerful witch, and I don't see her using them.

I think the only character she got right, didn't ruin, was compelling, tragic, awesome, and the only character she stayed true to, was Snape.
Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: headlesschocolatebunny on February 29, 2008, 12:03:17 PM

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Title: Re: Harry Potter 7 Discussion!! (WARNING - SPOILERS)
Post by: Fuzzy Necromancer on March 17, 2008, 06:13:33 PM
Speaking of Severus (possibly named after St. Severous, a righteous individual who was wrongly accused of using black magic and had a strong dislike for baths), one thing I still don't get is
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