RiffTrax Forum

General Discussion => Movie Talk => Topic started by: Pak-Man on December 15, 2015, 10:42:23 AM

Title: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Pak-Man on December 15, 2015, 10:42:23 AM
If you've seen the movie or you know stuff, or you WANT spoilers, here's the thread where you don't have to worry about tagging them! I'll get things started:

Darth Vader is Luke's Father!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on December 15, 2015, 10:58:50 AM
Do Luke and Leah kiss again?? :o
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 15, 2015, 11:00:56 AM
Do Luke and Leah kiss again?? :o
A full five minute shag scene "Ain't neither of us having kids now Luke, let's get this out of the way".
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on December 15, 2015, 11:08:36 AM
Do Luke and Leah kiss again?? :o
A full five minute shag scene "Ain't neither of us having kids now Luke, let's get this out of the way".
Then in comes Lando with his Colt 45 and says "This deal is getting better all the time" :P
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 15, 2015, 11:10:54 AM
 :highfive: :clap:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Compound on December 15, 2015, 11:12:10 AM
So, looking for some fun while watching? Here's the Force Awakens bingo card, courtesy of Darth & Droids (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/bingo/).

They haven't seen it, so it's all guesses from them. Refresh for a new card.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on December 15, 2015, 11:57:01 AM
I wasn't sure where to put this.

From @Nash076's Twitter (Sorry about the formatting):

Quote
I'm spoiler hunting on Reddit, and the funniest thing is happening:

Quote
The main source of TFA info is a guy who's actually seen the movie.

He's also the type who needs to movie explained to him.

Quote
You ever sit through a movie where someone is asking you "What's happening?" *as they're watching the movie with you?*

That's this guy.

Quote
It is single handedly one of the greatest feats of unintentional trolling I have ever witnesses.  Bless his heart.

Quote
This is a dude who equates "doesn't see someone escape" with "this character is dead," and he's their only current source for SW spoilers.

Quote
Reddit is gnawing their own limbs off over this guy, and it's a beautiful, beautiful thing to behold.

Quote
This is someone who upon seeing the end of A New Hope would deduce that Darth Vader was dead.

I'm *in tears of laughter.*
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 15, 2015, 12:47:08 PM
I wish he'd link to the thread.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 15, 2015, 01:25:26 PM
I read the guy's comments. They're not at all like that. His complaints are basically that most of the characters lack any real motivation for what they're doing (Finn in particular, he says, seems to just kind of wander around).

At another point he says that some of the dialogue is pretty bad; the bad guy at one point says "I'm conflicted," out loud, to show that...well, you know.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on December 15, 2015, 01:34:44 PM
I wasn't trying to say that they were the same person.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 15, 2015, 01:41:15 PM
Here's the guy. You can go find the threads he's responding to, but here's all his comments.
https://www.reddit.com/user/barrygibbFan
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 15, 2015, 03:32:49 PM
Ugh. I had to skip all the posts, and I won't be able to see any responses until Friday, but I came up with this profound stoner thought:

What if the story is an exact metaphor for Isil vs Us and Isil is the bad side and the force/rebel are the good side and this movie causes everyone to fight Isil and peace and happiness forever!


And Bernie is elected president.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 16, 2015, 09:49:42 AM
I grew up in a theatre town, there's only so many times you can be surprised by plot twists if you see them every third season.

But seeing the way things are designed, the way scenes are played, that is really quite difficult to spoil, even if I see pictures of sets and props, you know?
I just went and read the plot and now I'm more interested in seeing how it plays out.

Oh and...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 16, 2015, 10:20:24 AM
I grew up in a theatre town, there's only so many times you can be surprised by plot twists if you see them every third season.

But seeing the way things are designed, the way scenes are played, that is really quite difficult to spoil, even if I see pictures of sets and props, you know?
I just went and read the plot and now I'm more interested in seeing how it plays out.

Oh and...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...

Where did you read the plot at?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 16, 2015, 10:55:48 AM
The non baffled reditt thread I think.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 16, 2015, 12:04:59 PM
What I'm gathering is that it's basically Episode IV with all the plot points from the original trilogy already known, a half realized villain, and weak writing. The review I read said that they're basically using the toys of the originals to retell the story with their tweaks and edits. He said the story wasn't bad, just that it was poorly written. I can get behind this, although I'll reserve final judgement until I see it for myself :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 16, 2015, 12:11:34 PM
I think there's some validity to that description, indeed I assume we'll see a sort of side by side comparison vid or two in the next few years.

But the originals are hardly a cornucopia of super originality, the frisson comes from how those tropes and set pieces are stitched together rather than how new they seemed in of themselves. As such I'm looking forward to it; I just might not get to see it till next weekend (My birthday will take up a fair portion of this weekend and then I have Keegan-Michael Key coming in to do a show for me and that's awesome but also a logistical nightmare). Then again, maybe I'll take Wednesday off to watch it a couple of times. :D
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: BiteMe316 on December 17, 2015, 09:01:52 AM
I grew up in a theatre town, there's only so many times you can be surprised by plot twists if you see them every third season.

But seeing the way things are designed, the way scenes are played, that is really quite difficult to spoil, even if I see pictures of sets and props, you know?
I just went and read the plot and now I'm more interested in seeing how it plays out.

Oh and...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...


Please please let that be what I'm thinking of!!!!!!!!*  If it is, I might actually see this movie now!!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 17, 2015, 10:53:57 AM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: BiteMe316 on December 17, 2015, 10:57:06 AM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 17, 2015, 11:32:41 AM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Like I said elsewhere, some of the EU won't be ignored in a way because some of it goes in narrative directions that are decent, which is why the EU writers went in those directions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 17, 2015, 01:13:17 PM
We're in a spoiler thread, I don't think the tags are necessary.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 17, 2015, 02:20:20 PM
I like the effect. :)

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 17, 2015, 03:58:51 PM
I don't like the whole
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 17, 2015, 04:59:31 PM
I like the effect. :)

You're such a drama queen, waiting for the big reveal.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Compound on December 17, 2015, 09:12:18 PM
Just got back.

Huh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, and this-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJqNpqCy2r0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJqNpqCy2r0)
A happy medium between that and Star Wars would be nice.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Compound on December 17, 2015, 09:32:24 PM
Oh, and hey. Those little crosshilt lightsaber blades actually got used in the film. Yay!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 17, 2015, 09:44:44 PM
Want to talk flaws? Let's talk flaws as well as what I loved about the movie.
Some of the scenes felt a little tedious. I never like when movie scenes return to sets already used in the same movie. I like a movie to move forward in that respect.

I also felt that the movie was a little too dialogue heavy in some parts.

As for the Re-hashing though? Anything re-hashed at least feels like it was EARNED. The story was good, the new characters were amazing, and in a way, the stuff that felt like it was re-used was done so to much better dramatic effect.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You know what though? The basic story was very good, the whole idea of Luke vanishing, them having to try and find him, the reason for his disappearance? All very understandable. Our new characters are warm, lovable, have flaws but find their own strengths and put what's right ahead of their own desires...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I almost forgot to mention, there is more than enough unique ideas and lots of new stuff executed so well in this movie to warrant the whole idea of revisiting certain ideas.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I also feel that Kylo Ren is a fascinating character. You understand him, and when
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For the first time in a very long time, I was also genuinely choked up by this movie. It had me in bits... if you know what I mean. And those final scenes.... wow...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Guys, what ought to be most important to us all is that Star Wars has heart and soul again. And that is the most beautiful, wonderful thing of all and I cannot praise this movie enough for that.

What I'm saying is that the movie does have flaws... but they are so minimal that I can ignore them with my conscience being completely clear. I am trying to be as fair as humanly possible, just so you don't think I've been completely sucked in by the hype machine.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MSTJedi on December 17, 2015, 10:32:42 PM
Okay, let me fanboy here for a sec. Oh, my stars... What a ride.

Since this is the spoiler thread, I'd like to say that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 17, 2015, 10:37:06 PM
I'm right with you MST Jedi. I don't get choked up often but I let out several small audible cries of grief when it happened.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 17, 2015, 11:13:24 PM
I loved that the new characters were able to carry the movie on their own for at least a half hour before any of the old cast showed up.  It gave them a chance to shine, and they most certainly did.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 17, 2015, 11:15:56 PM
And it even did some things better than the original trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: JimJ on December 18, 2015, 12:09:33 AM
So, flaws first to get that out of the way.  Also, not using spoiler tags.  It's a spoiler thread, you shouldn't be here if you don't want to see them.

1. I kind of wish the plot wasn't recycled stuff from A New Hope.  I really only half consider this a flaw because I still liked the story a lot, but it would've been cool to see something a little more original.

2. Did everyone read "Lightsaber Combat for Dummies" or something?  I can buy Rey holding her own with a saber because the Force and all that, but Finn?  An ex-storm trooper with no apparent force ability can just pick up a lightsaber and do OK in a battle with someone who was presumably trained by Luke?  I don't like it.

3. Snoke?  That's the name your going with for the Supreme Leader?  I also hate the design of that character.  I hope there's some kind of man behind the curtain thing going on there.

I'm sure there are more flaws but they aren't springing to mind and, frankly, I'm tired of focusing on the negative right now.  I loved the movie a lot.  It's great to see a Star Wars movie that feels like a Star Wars movie.  The prequels really just sucked the life out of the franchise and this movie has the exact opposite effect.  I could not be more excited to see where this story is going next.  I loved the new characters, especially Rey and BB-8.  Daisy Ridley gives one of the best performances in the entire series IMO, she's amazing.  I'm going again tomorrow night and can't wait.  I wasn't crazy about the 3D so I'm going 2D this time.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 18, 2015, 12:16:21 AM
My favorite scene in the whole movie was fixing the hyperdrive. BB8 giving a thumbs up, and Rey asking for Finn to hand her a tool.

Is it just me, or is Daisy Ridley an exact clone of Keira Knightly? Are they going to reveal that Rey is the granddaughter of one of Padme's handmaidens?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on December 18, 2015, 12:17:25 AM
Okay, let me fanboy here for a sec. Oh, my stars... What a ride.

Since this is the spoiler thread, I'd like to say that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My thoughts exactly. I felt it in my gut as soon the moment the scene began.

But, lemme back up a moment. And this is the spoiler thread, so I'll just jump into things.

I liked it. I really did. I liked it to the point where my biggest complaints, really, is that it wasn't more. Which is a weird complaint to level against a movie, but here we are.

What folks have said about it being a very Star Wars-y Star Wars is true. It models itself a lot after A New Hope, from both locations to plot points to general structure. Really, it's a movie that rides the line between standing in the shadow of what came before it, and being its own new thing. Luckily it also remembers to be terrific fun and excitement and generally good, so that's actually okay (it's not a Jurassic World situation, where the whole movie is coasting off the greater effort of a previous entry).

As Kete pointed out, the movie takes its time with the new characters before bringing in the old favorites, and that, I think, is the real key to its success. Passing The Torch movies tend to fail because they spend so much time basing in the nostalgic glory of what came before, they forget to actually establish the new torch holders as folks worth following. Here, everyone gets actual weight and background, and it sticks! I love the conflicted stormtrooper trying to run to a new future. I love the ace pilot just sort of lingering in the background, ready to be a solid supporting player. I love the new bad guy being the proper end result for all things dark side/light side conflict (Han's death scene made great use of this, which actually went a long way towards making that moment matter more than just it being, well, Han's Death Scene), and expect good things out of that. I love the new girl being a Luke expy minus all the whinyness (for real, Luke in A New Hope deserves a good slapping around). Even little BB-88 was the right level of useful and adorable (his Thumbs Up moment killed in my audience).

It's really just a good movie. Which, like I said, leaves me wanting more. I wish there were more memorable dialogue moments that weren't lifts from prior movies (Han's "The Force doesn't work that way!" is probably the lone standout), I wish the score had something to contribute besides the tunes we already know (say what you will about The Phantom Menace, it got aggressive with a new score and it paid off big time). I wish there was more to the enemy's grand plan than "Let's build the biggest Death Star ever! Third time's the charm!" (the movie seemed to even acknowledge this with Han's jabs about there always being a way to blow it up). But frankly, the movie was still plenty good fun.

Soguru is right. Star Wars has its soul back, and frankly, that matters most.

Though I only hope Episode VIII manages to break free completely, not play it so safe, and become its own iconic thing. Time to escape the shadow completely.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on December 18, 2015, 12:23:37 AM
My favorite scene in the whole movie was fixing the hyperdrive. BB8 giving a thumbs up, and Rey asking for Finn to hand her a tool.

Is it just me, or is Daisy Ridley an exact clone of Keira Knightly? Are they going to reveal that Rey is the granddaughter of one of Padme's handmaidens?

I'm so very sad to see Han go, but I think it was right.

I second every word of this post.

2. Did everyone read "Lightsaber Combat for Dummies" or something?  I can buy Rey holding her own with a saber because the Force and all that, but Finn?  An ex-storm trooper with no apparent force ability can just pick up a lightsaber and do OK in a battle with someone who was presumably trained by Luke?  I don't like it.

I actually cut the movie a lot of slack here. For one, it's established that Kylo Ren was pretty badly injured by Chewie's laser blast. Plus, in general, it's part of what they're doing with Kylo in general as a character (something I really like): he's not Darth Vader. He's someone who wants to be, but more torn on the path between Light and Dark. He's highly skilled, but still doesn't have nearly that much control over himself. I mean, earlier in the movie he's freaking out and destroying whole rooms in temper tantrums when things go wrong. So he can swing a lightsaber, but he's not a dominate force. Not to mention, Finn likely had some sort of sword training, what with stormtroopers now having those electric-blade things (a battle against which he lost).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 18, 2015, 03:02:05 AM
No explanation why Finn has the amazing ability to aim and hit targets though.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 18, 2015, 06:03:14 AM
I like the effect. :)

You're such a drama queen, waiting for the big reveal.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 18, 2015, 06:18:15 AM
I like the effect. :)

You're such a drama queen, waiting for the big reveal.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Damn Tripe, that's cold.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 18, 2015, 07:21:26 AM
OK, saw it, too.  The things I liked:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There's my good stuff.  Now, the bad (and it's not that bad, really...)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Still, I enjoyed the movie.  It was fun and it is a good setup for things to come.  But I just wish they could combine the human tone and the acting of this one with the visual flair of the previous six.  Yes, say what you will about the prequels, there's some memorable damn action scenes in those movies.  Outside of the two scenes I mentioned earlier, the action felt rambling and secondary to the characters, and I really thought that aspect of the film suffered badly.  The balance just doesn't seem to be worked out yet...but, seeing that Colin Trevorrow is attached to IX, I think that'll be fixed.  Say what you will about the characters of Jurassic World, the man knows how to make a T-Rex entrance give you chills.  Give him a good script and I think you've got gold on your hands.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MSTJedi on December 18, 2015, 07:25:49 AM
3. Snoke?  That's the name your going with for the Supreme Leader?  I also hate the design of that character.  I hope there's some kind of man behind the curtain thing going on there.

I'm right there with you on this. They already foreshadowed that with the reveal that the huge figure that Ren was reporting to was just a hologram. I'm sensing a serious Wizard of Oz quality here.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 18, 2015, 07:53:44 AM
From what I've seen people saying, it looks like it's a 200 million dollar fan remake of A New Hope. Would you guys say that's accurate.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 18, 2015, 08:06:16 AM
Not completely.  It's certainly got a lot of notes that it hit, but Star Wars is kind of supposed to be like that anyway.  The whole prequel trilogy was supposed to be a mirror of the original trilogy, so seeing it done like this, too, is no surprise, nor does it ruin anything.  But I do agree with RD that the movie is played very safe.  For all the spoiler-hiding, the movie wastes no time in explaining almost everything people were asking about.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
  I get the sense Abrams is so in awe and reverential of Star Wars that he didn't want to upset the apple cart.  He certainly didn't, but he didn't do much to make it stand on its own.  It's a fun watch, but it has yet to make a leap into radically new and exciting territory.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on December 18, 2015, 08:09:18 AM
Well, not going to give my opinion because everyone here seems happy geeking out.  What I do want to say is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 18, 2015, 08:14:33 AM
Hey, give your opinion.  Whether you liked it or not, I want the debate.  I'm not going to slam anybody who loved it without question, anyone who thought it was gutter slime, or sort of on the fence about it.  I actually want to hear what people thought about it who hated it, because I want to compare notes.  That's part of the fun of movies.  As long as it doesn't get personal, of all movies I'd love to talk about, it's this one.  I just hope all opinions are honest.

EDIT: And yes, I knew about the second thing, and I did consider the former.  If it WAS Kevin, that might actually have been pretty funny.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on December 18, 2015, 08:33:23 AM
Well, I'd give it a solid 2.5 out of 4.  3 and 1/4 out of 5.  I might give it more or less but I waited 2.5 hours in a theater that only turned out to be half full, so I am trying hard not to work that in to the rating..  I'm also trying to be reasonable with the rating because a whole lot of folks I went to the theater with went "OMG, 4 stars, NOSTALGIA!!!"

The Good:  The acting was good to great.  No one made me go "OMG get that person off the screen."  Kylo Ren really had some good surprises.

The Bad:  The writing was terrible.  The dialog literally made me cringe at times. 

The...well...not going to say it.  But theater actually started to cheer when a certain female character appeared and then changed to gasps.  Seriously.  I went "well hey, she's older, that's understandable."  But then she spoke.  It sounded like a PSA where someone goes "Kids, I ate a bucket of cigarette butts and they tore out my larynx.  Now I breath through a tube.  Don't eat cigarette butts."

Now...it was NOT "A New Hope."  I would still call it a "fun" movie.  Definitely better than average.  And hey, we don't have to bring politics into Star Wars anymore...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
  I suppose that breaks things for the "I love the bad guys" crowd, but hey, keeps things civil.   

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 18, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
I was at RottenTomatoes earlier and the AFI called it the top movie of 2015.  That I definitely don't agree with.  It was good, but THAT good after only one day of release?  It will most likely be the highest earning movie of the year (possibly all-time, if ticket sales are to be believed), but doing that almost seems like they're trolling Lucas a little bit.

And yeah, Carrie Fisher is pretty smoked out.  But considering how much she has been through in her life, I thought she handled the part as dignified as she could.  I even heard she had to lose weight before they would let her be in it.  I'll give her credit for putting up with crap like that.

But that's something that I noticed that I thought a little off...30 some odd years later, and she's still a Princess, according to C-3P0?  Promote her already!  She's earned it! ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 18, 2015, 09:38:33 AM
Not completely.  It's certainly got a lot of notes that it hit, but Star Wars is kind of supposed to be like that anyway.  The whole prequel trilogy was supposed to be a mirror of the original trilogy, so seeing it done like this, too, is no surprise, nor does it ruin anything.  But I do agree with RD that the movie is played very safe.  For all the spoiler-hiding, the movie wastes no time in explaining almost everything people were asking about.  I mean, all the "Is Luke Kylo Ren?" speculation goes out the window in the opening crawl, for Pete's sake.  I get the sense Abrams is so in awe and reverential of Star Wars that he didn't want to upset the apple cart.  He certainly didn't, but he didn't do much to make it stand on its own.  It's a fun watch, but it has yet to make a leap into radically new and exciting territory.

Hey, cool, Abrams actually managed to make the twist not guessable? That's like K-Stew gaining a facial expression every movie! Even if he DID make it the worst possible cop out. I'm reminded of the Cloverfield is about Voltron scenario...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 18, 2015, 09:38:45 AM
But that's something that I noticed that I thought a little off...30 some odd years later, and she's still a Princess, according to C-3P0?  Promote her already!  She's earned it! ;)

Or demote her. Princess of what? Her people are all dead.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 18, 2015, 09:42:16 AM
I thought her title was General
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on December 18, 2015, 09:44:02 AM
I thought her title was General
Yeah, I seem to recall Finn calling her General Organa several times.

Oh, and you'll be happy to know that Jar Jar Abrams kept the lens-flares to a minimum.  I noticed one really obvious one through the whole movie.  Much better than blinding you with Enterprise bridge console lighting...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 18, 2015, 09:54:00 AM
I don't know. At this point I'm more inclined to believe the critical reviews you guys are giving out vs the fan praise. I just keep remembering that everyone REALLY liked Phantom Menace when it came out... I'll reserve judgement until I see it, sometime this weekend, I hope.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 18, 2015, 10:00:13 AM
Regarding all the familiar references in the new movie...
I think it was necessary to right the course of the franchise.  We are back on track.  It's proven that we can get a movie that is on par with the originals.  Now we are free to explore new territory.  JJ is safe, yes.  He's the safest bet you could make when it comes to directors.  One of his greatest abilities is to emulate other directors, and he emulated what we hoped Lucas had been.  Now the torch is going to someone different and interesting in Rian Johnson.  I am even more excited now for Episode 8.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on December 18, 2015, 10:21:57 AM
But that's something that I noticed that I thought a little off...30 some odd years later, and she's still a Princess, according to C-3P0?  Promote her already!  She's earned it! ;)

If My Little Pony has taught me nothing else, it's that the rank of Princess is generally the pinnacle with regards to rulers who actually want to get things done.

Some other little thoughts:

-The more I think about it, the more I find the score to be my biggest disappointment of the new movie. The original trilogy delivered sounds that have entered the perpetual pop culture consciousness, whether it's the truly iconic stuff like the opening number or the Imperial March, or the smaller stuff (that's also my favorite) like the battle music on Hoth (https://youtu.be/8iFBXHKoH0U?t=4m32s) and Endor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMHFsnw5P3Y). Apart from clips of the classic stuff, the new music seemed wholly unremarkable. Which seems to be a modern blockbuster problem in general, I find.

-The humor mostly worked really well, but as others have pointed out, it was occasionally right on the line of being a bit too snarky/cutesy. That's another modern blockbuster sensibility leaking in, though, as that style of humor is pretty par for the course these days (I want to blame the Marvel movies for it. Not their fault that it works for them, but everyone always takes success and tries to blanket apply it).

-All the dialogue callbacks they make, and they *don't* do a "Red One checking in, Red Two checking in..." bit? Ridiculous. That's hardly even a callback at this point, it's just what the series does. And I love those moments!

-Really don't understand how the Galactic government is set up here. We've got the Republic, the New Order, and also the Resistance? Wouldn't it just be the first two? Presumably the Resistance is working in league with the Republic, and also that the Republic is the one in charge, so how is the Resistance a resistance at all? I feel like the movie made things a bit needlessly complicated there.

-Having literally just made my above complaint, I also enjoyed one aspect of the movie's slavish Episode 4 devotion, in that we were just tossed into the wider world of the plot. Major characters and events happen, history is hinted at (love love love those crashed Star Destroyers), and the plot keeps moving through it. Not too heavy on any backstory that isn't directly character related, which is great. Just what we need to really bring out that spark of imagination that Star Wars is so good at bringing out.

-They gotta do a lot of work on Snoke to make him work in the next movies. Because right now he just feels like a cheap Palpatine knock-off. Which is especially discouraging, because nearly every other new character actually has their own identity that isn't just an older character with new paint (well, alright, BB-8 is a new R2, albeit not nearly as stubborn).

-Also really gotta improve the massive space battles. The Falcon chase on the planet was great, but there was hardly anything going on with the X-Wings with regards to their attack on the Death Planet (which actually gets its energy from real stars, so, funnily enough, calling it a Death Star is probably more accurate). The best space battle this series has ever done is still back in Jedi over the forest moon of Endor, and I want something to match that. With new ship designs, too! Or at least don't be afraid to bring back medium frigates, A-Wings, B-Wings, and Y-Wings!

-I liked how Han went out. Having him go out swinging like SJP said might've felt more "right", but I think that makes the actual death all the more tragic (especially since I really can't see Han losing a real fight that badly). This series is really big on the whole father/son betrayal, and given the chaotic internal mess they've got going on with Kylo Ren, I loved that it was a final loss of a son that killed the father. A good reversal of what came before, and very affecting (not the least of which because I just new it was coming moments before, and then my body suddenly realized it was a case of "I'm about to watch Han Solo die", which nobody really wants in life but here we are).

-Modern movies are always casting so young. Makes the big bad New Order general look like a SS Youth Recruiter. Actors exist over the age of 35, Hollywood! And you can give them roles that require more than 5 minutes of screentime!

That's all for now. Seeing the movie again tonight (at a Drafthouse no less! Very exciting), so I'll be able to better take in all there is to see.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 18, 2015, 10:30:44 AM
But that's something that I noticed that I thought a little off...30 some odd years later, and she's still a Princess, according to C-3P0?  Promote her already!  She's earned it! ;)

Or demote her. Princess of what? Her people are all dead.

True.  But I meant according to when C-3P0 shrugs and says "Princesses," with the unspoken "Am I right?" I know everyone else calls her General, but I thought that one line was a little odd.

I had written a bunch of stuff that got erased because of an unexpected signout, but I'll try to get it back down again without getting too wordy...
J.J. seems to be big on character and dialogue, but light on the showing of epic action, and I think that's what I noticed the most about this one.  Looking back on Super 8, I loved the kids and their Goonies-esque antics, but when the alien shows up and the army attacks it, you see very little of the actual fighting, with most of it hidden behind houses and in darkness.  Star Trek, there's only a little bit of ship-to-ship combat (and even a lot of that was Spock flying around in the little single-person ship), but plenty of hand-to-hand fisticuffs (I didn't see Into Darkness, so can't comment on that).  On Star Wars, you expect a lot of starships whizzing around and blowing stuff up, or battlefields filled with all sort of aliens and stormtroopers and robots going at it, and not getting lost in the shuffle.  Abrams doesn't do that.  He plays to his strengths, but it is easy to notice a big difference in scale when the two biggest action sequences involve three spaceships and a lightsaber duel.

It does make me more excited for the other two films, though.  I haven't seen Looper or Brick, but know OF them, and think that edgier, more cerebral thing will work for a middle segment, even if Rian Johnson is similar in a small-scale style.  But Colin will make the third one a popcorn show, and if it's written well, that'll be a...uh, that'll be a thing to see. ;)

-The more I think about it, the more I find the score to be my biggest disappointment of the new movie. The original trilogy delivered sounds that have entered the perpetual pop culture consciousness, whether it's the truly iconic stuff like the opening number or the Imperial March, or the smaller stuff (that's also my favorite) like the battle music on Hoth (https://youtu.be/8iFBXHKoH0U?t=4m32s) and Endor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMHFsnw5P3Y). Apart from clips of the classic stuff, the new music seemed wholly unremarkable. Which seems to be a modern blockbuster problem in general, I find.

This, too.  I can't recall or hum any piece of music from it that wasn't from the other movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on December 18, 2015, 10:36:47 AM
This, too.  I can't recall or hum any piece of music from it that wasn't from the other movies.

I could.  Let me es-plain.  In the scene on the attack on (Jakka?) right at the beginning when Kylo Ren's ship landed they had a whole new score that sounded slightly similar to the Darth Vader theme but was still completely different and new.  I thought "Awesome, now I'll have to learn a whole bunch of new 'scores' for the characters!" and I was fairly impressed with the new KR theme...

I didn't hear that song again the ENTIRE movie...If they had REPLAYED it a few times like they should have...people would probably have remembered it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on December 18, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
This, too.  I can't recall or hum any piece of music from it that wasn't from the other movies.

I could.  Let me es-plain.  In the scene on the attack on (Jakka?) right at the beginning when Kylo Ren's ship landed they had a whole new score that sounded slightly similar to the Darth Vader theme but was still completely different and new.  I thought "Awesome, now I'll have to learn a whole bunch of new 'scores' for the characters!" and I was fairly impressed with the new KR theme...

I didn't hear that song again the ENTIRE movie...If they had REPLAYED it a few times like they should have...people would probably have remembered it.

I'll keep an ear out for that when I watch it again tonight. I'm always hunting for a good new sound, and I'll admit, I tend to not notice the score as much on my first viewing of a movie (my mind's too occupied with everything else that's happening onscreen). Really, really wish there was a moment where the score forced itself front and center. Like I said before, even The Phantom Menace (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-L2K2f2YWM) managed to do that one thing extraordinarily well. Movies shouldn't be too afraid to let us hear them.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 18, 2015, 11:30:59 AM
As Im mentioned in the other thread, this is almost 100% spot on:
http://makingstarwars.net/2015/05/a-compiled-synopsis-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

I just hope that Rey is not related.  Also, I really hope that Fin is truly just a stormtrooper.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 11:31:44 AM
Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 18, 2015, 11:38:02 AM
OK.  Went back and edited the 'big stuff.'  I think what's left out to see is nothing that should offend anyone who casually looks through.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 11:47:08 AM
Some people have said the dialogue was terrible? I thought it was fine, and sometimes really great actually.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on December 18, 2015, 11:56:00 AM
Some people have said the dialogue was terrible? I thought it was fine, and sometimes really great actually.

Yeah, I actually dug the writing. Some of the lines (especially from Finn) felt a little too modern/out-of-place with the rest of the universe, but still worked.

As for spoilers, I think all my big ones are buried deep enough in my posts that no one casually glancing through my posts will see them.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 12:00:21 PM
Fair enough. As for newer characters... I loved BB-8. He has so much personality and he was just so well realized. That and well, let's face it, he's so damn cute.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 18, 2015, 12:06:36 PM
I had no real problem with the dialogue either.  I only had issue with anything that tried too hard to be funny and fell flat (Poe's lines to Ren at the beginning, a few early Finn lines, and a little bit of the dialogue between Han and the guys on the cargo ship), but nothing that sounded embarrassingly bad.  I know there's a few Ren lines that I know people disliked, but he seems like the kind of guy who would say that kind of stuff to himself.

And BB-8 I thought came off really well.  I just wonder why all the talking protocol droids are essentially robot people with no special features while all the bleep-bloop droids are Swiss Army Knives.  That little guy has a lot of gadgets in him.  Granted, R2 had jetpacks in the prequels that quietly disappeared, but still...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 12:14:03 PM
I really like Poe Dameron a LOT though,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
, I saw him as being a LOT like Bruce Campbell.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Henry88 on December 18, 2015, 12:19:53 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 18, 2015, 12:21:02 PM
What questions did this movie raise for you guys?

Here are some that I had?:
Who is Snoke?
Who is Rey's family?
Why did Kylo Ren seem to know about Rey? ("Was there anyone else with them?" "A girl" "Rrrraagghh!")
Did Han and Leia hold anything against Luke for failing with Kylo Ren?
Is Fin really the son of Leia and Lando, and so Han killed Lando, and that's why he's not in the movie?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on December 18, 2015, 12:33:59 PM

And BB-8 I thought came off really well.  I just wonder why all the talking protocol droids are essentially robot people with no special features while all the bleep-bloop droids are Swiss Army Knives.  That little guy has a lot of gadgets in him.  Granted, R2 had jetpacks in the prequels that quietly disappeared, but still...

Yep, I thought BB-8 was a highlight.  Heard a bunch of internet trolling hating on him beforehand so I was suspicious, but he was cute and funny.
And...despite the fact everyone thinks he's "underdeveloped" or not visualized well...I did like Snoke, despite the name.  Thought it was "Smoke" until the credits rolled....
What questions did this movie raise for you guys?

Here are some that I had?:
Who is Snoke?
Who is Rey's family?
Why did Kylo Ren seem to know about Rey? ("Was there anyone else with them?" "A girl" "Rrrraagghh!")
Did Han and Leia hold anything against Luke for failing with Kylo Ren?
Is Fin really the son of Leia and Lando, and so Han killed Lando, and that's why he's not in the movie?
Yeah, I agree with all these questions except...Whaa?  The last?  Is someone saying that on the interwebz or are you just joshin'?  Here's my complete shot in the dark on Finn: 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
  Decided to spoiler that, despite the fact I made up some of it, don't want to give anything away or make people think the wrong stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 18, 2015, 12:34:29 PM
that's why he's not in the movie?
It wouldn't surprise me if Lando shows up in movie 2 much the same way he did in the OT.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 12:36:16 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Henry88 on December 18, 2015, 12:40:19 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma7n760CMY1r4pwt8o1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 18, 2015, 12:44:02 PM
Yeah, I'm just joking about the Lando thing :)

I think they missed the opportunity to make some great jokes about Stormtroopers always missing.  They could be in shootout, Fin keeps missing, then Han tosses him the lightsaber and says, "Here.  Maybe you can hit something with this".

I'm wondering if Snoke is really a tiny person.  Like a Yoda or a Gollum.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on December 18, 2015, 12:51:05 PM
Yeah, I'm just joking about the Lando thing :)

I think they missed the opportunity to make some great jokes about Stormtroopers always missing.  They could be in shootout, Fin keeps missing, then Han tosses him the lightsaber and says, "Here.  Maybe you can hit something with this".

I'm wondering if Snoke is really a tiny person.  Like a Yoda or a Gollum.

Nuts to that. I want them to commit to a giant man. I want Snoke to stand tall inside the landing bay of a Star Destroyer, bump his head on the ceiling, and have everyone awkwardly stand around when they realize he can't actually go anywhere else now.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 18, 2015, 12:51:18 PM
Yeah, I'm just joking about the Lando thing :)
Oh sure but i was using that to talk about structure. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on December 18, 2015, 01:16:05 PM
Yeah, I'm just joking about the Lando thing :)

I think they missed the opportunity to make some great jokes about Stormtroopers always missing.  They could be in shootout, Fin keeps missing, then Han tosses him the lightsaber and says, "Here.  Maybe you can hit something with this".

I'm wondering if Snoke is really a tiny person.  Like a Yoda or a Gollum.

Nuts to that. I want them to commit to a giant man. I want Snoke to stand tall inside the landing bay of a Star Destroyer, bump his head on the ceiling, and have everyone awkwardly stand around when they realize he can't actually go anywhere else now.
Or flip out and take his lightsaber and throw a tantrum just like his pupil...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MSTJedi on December 18, 2015, 01:25:54 PM
Yeah, I'm just joking about the Lando thing :)

I think they missed the opportunity to make some great jokes about Stormtroopers always missing.  They could be in shootout, Fin keeps missing, then Han tosses him the lightsaber and says, "Here.  Maybe you can hit something with this".

I'm wondering if Snoke is really a tiny person.  Like a Yoda or a Gollum.

Nuts to that. I want them to commit to a giant man. I want Snoke to stand tall inside the landing bay of a Star Destroyer, bump his head on the ceiling, and have everyone awkwardly stand around when they realize he can't actually go anywhere else now.
Or flip out and take his lightsaber and throw a tantrum just like his pupil...

I was discussing the prequels with someone today and realized that Ren's tantrums remind me a lot of Anakin's reactions in Ep. III. Wonder if they did that on purpose. Like grandfather, like grandson. And if that's the case, maybe Ren will grow out of it.

Also, with Snoke, I actually thought about him perhaps compensating for being a shrimp by constructing that huge hologram. Maybe he's the dark side equivalent of Yoda. Except he has good grammar.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Henry88 on December 18, 2015, 01:48:08 PM
i am just hoping that in the upcoming sequels kylo gets it the same way han did, preferably from a bigger badder sith(play by christopher walken)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Compound on December 18, 2015, 02:00:36 PM
Well, not going to give my opinion because everyone here seems happy geeking out.  What I do want to say is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


I though "Santa!" myself.


And I'm back from my second viewing. Still like the pieces better than the film as a whole.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 18, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
I thought that they were going to have Chewy put on Captain Phasma's armor.  I have to say, I was dissapointed in Captain Phasma.  She didn't really do much, and she was dispatched rather quickly.

I was hoping she would be a strong female character, but Rey made up for that in spades.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 03:22:19 PM
I think I got an answer for anybody who plays the "Awww, it's too derivative" card. That sort of begs the question... how derivative was A new hope of Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"? I dare say the same as a lot of other people- There are a lot of similarities, inescapable ones, but there are plenty of things that are different enough that it can stand on its own.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The movie takes the time to really flesh out our new characters and villains, and in doing so, it more than stands on its own.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on December 18, 2015, 03:31:03 PM
-Really don't understand how the Galactic government is set up here. We've got the Republic, the New Order, and also the Resistance? Wouldn't it just be the first two? Presumably the Resistance is working in league with the Republic, and also that the Republic is the one in charge, so how is the Resistance a resistance at all? I feel like the movie made things a bit needlessly complicated there.

Apparently the restarted Expanded Universe actually answers this one, so I'm mollified for the moment: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/18/what-the-hell-is-the-story-with-the-resistance-and-the-first-order-in-the-f
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 18, 2015, 03:54:19 PM
I think I got an answer for anybody who plays the "Awww, it's too derivative" card. That sort of begs the question... how derivative was A new hope of Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"? I dare say the same as a lot of other people- There are a lot of similarities, inescapable ones, but there are plenty of things that are different enough that it can stand on its own.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The movie takes the time to really flesh out our new characters and villains, and in doing so, it more than stands on its own.

I haven't seen it, and I can tell you there's more than that. There's an older mentor that helps our heroes out, who is later murdered by a masked villainous force user who poses as the primary villain serving under a mega villain. The plans to blow up the Death Star find Luke are in R2-D2 B-88, who is designed to be the analog for R2 in the new saga they're constructing, and to be a toy, to boot. Going to see it tonight, I hope, so I'll be able to add more then.

Also, I don't think Spoiler tags are necessary and won't be using them. This is a Spoiler thread, you can see from the most recent post that I post in this thread, everyone knows I'm interested to see whether this movie is good or bad so I'm going to absorb all I can, so looking at my profile, you know the risks. (Mark it down, this is the day that I agree with Imrahil.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on December 18, 2015, 03:57:29 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 18, 2015, 04:01:03 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

worse than this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/adFPJOLB-fc
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on December 18, 2015, 04:18:54 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

worse than this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/adFPJOLB-fc

I'm not a Pokemon fan, so I'm afraid the emotional gravitas of that particular scene has zero impact for me. :p
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 18, 2015, 04:25:29 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

worse than this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/adFPJOLB-fc

I'm not a Pokemon fan, so I'm afraid the emotional gravitas of that particular scene has zero impact for me. :p

It's not emotional for me, it's just a horrible scream.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Glass Pipe on December 18, 2015, 04:27:57 PM
I thought that they were going to have Chewy put on Captain Phasma's armor.  I have to say, I was dissapointed in Captain Phasma.  She didn't really do much, and she was dispatched rather quickly.


I remember some talk of trash compactors and then nothing else so I presume her fate was implied.  Maybe she got away, hey?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Glass Pipe on December 18, 2015, 04:40:13 PM
My review:
3.75 stars
Great effects; the real sets made it feel a lot less CGI-ish
Great characters and great casting.  Faves Ren, Ray, PP9, Fin.
Decent music; this is the biggest negative because I think the musical score for the original Star Wars is what made it great.  I agree with Michael Moore who said film is primarily an audio medium.
Decent storyline; nothing to write home about but it's fine.
Pacing was too fast-they skipped or implied a bunch of stuff.  It felt rushed.  They should have padded it out by 40 minutes or so and added some mood/atmospheric music or added more to character development. 

Did anyone else feel like they just threw Han Solo away like an afterthought?  The getting frozen in carbonite scene from Empire had ten times the emotional impact than his very death! 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 04:56:00 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I cannot possibly disagree with you more in the strongest possible terms. You know... when you're
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 18, 2015, 05:42:51 PM
I loved the way Han died. It showed how much he loved his son (he wanted to believe there was good in him), it showed how much he believed in Luke and Leia (believing his son could be turned back to the light side), it showed how much he still loved Leia (he hesitates before confronting Ren, but he did it because Leia asked him too (in addition to loving his son). He face a fear for Leia and Ren).

I knew it was going to happen once Han stepped on the bridge, and I relished every second of it!


I also love that Han had such a major role in this film. Leia and Luke will have larger roles in the next films (and I bet they are both going to die).



Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Henry88 on December 18, 2015, 05:52:49 PM
Quote
Leia and Luke will have larger roles in the next films (and I bet they are both going to die).

oh joy.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 06:32:44 PM
Whatever happens, it just needs to be done well, and for a good reason. I think if they do anything with Luke and Leia... Leia would sacrifice herself heroically, and Luke's promise would be to come back and do his best to redeem Kylo... but at this point I don't know if that's remotely possible. If Luke dies, it should somehow be the Catalyst for redeeming Ren... and he goes through all this emotional hell as a result. I don't mean like Emo Ren, just conflicted in a very understandable way.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on December 18, 2015, 06:35:10 PM
When I first saw Luke standing at the edge of that cliff, I could't help thinking just how damn cliched it looked: The wise old sage, peering out towards the distant horizon and being all mystic.

Then it hit me as I was walking home: Luke was up there because he sensed Han Solo die. It's one of those little details nobody utters aloud in the movie, but when you piece them together yourself, it's like a punch to the stomach.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 06:52:52 PM
Maybe so. You could be reading a little too much into it though. Luke's got to be conflicted. His perceived "failure" has doubled. Kylo Ren... Han... Rey is our new hope, the one who through her journey has shown Luke he has not failed, but that there are some things that happen in the universe and are just beyond his control.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on December 18, 2015, 07:10:41 PM
Maybe so. You could be reading a little too much into it though.

Dude. I'm a NERD. It's a Star Wars movie. Of COURSE I'm supposed to read too much into it. :p
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 18, 2015, 09:16:02 PM
What questions did this movie raise for you guys?

Here are some that I had?:
Who is Snoke?
Who is Rey's family?
Why did Kylo Ren seem to know about Rey? ("Was there anyone else with them?" "A girl" "Rrrraagghh!")
Did Han and Leia hold anything against Luke for failing with Kylo Ren?
Is Fin really the son of Leia and Lando, and so Han killed Lando, and that's why he's not in the movie?

These are purely speculation.  Any relation between these and the truth are purely coincidence or luck.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Glass Pipe on December 18, 2015, 09:33:00 PM
What questions did this movie raise for you guys?

Here are some that I had?:
Who is Snoke?
Who is Rey's family?
Why did Kylo Ren seem to know about Rey? ("Was there anyone else with them?" "A girl" "Rrrraagghh!")
Did Han and Leia hold anything against Luke for failing with Kylo Ren?
Is Fin really the son of Leia and Lando, and so Han killed Lando, and that's why he's not in the movie?

These are purely speculation.  Any relation between these and the truth are purely coincidence or luck.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Snoke was a hologram so no he's not a huge giant. 

Rey is either Luke's daughter or an immaculate conception like Anakin.  What if the emperor had a daughter and she seduced Luke like Morgana La Fey did in Excalibur?

Oh I didnt even think of Lando or Mace.  That would figure.  I like the idea of him just being a plain old regular guy but still being a main player.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Glass Pipe on December 18, 2015, 09:37:43 PM
Who was Max Von Sydow?  He showed up for only a nanosecond.  What happened to him?  He's a major actor so I don't get why he would show up in a bit part.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: JimJ on December 18, 2015, 09:51:29 PM
Who was Max Von Sydow?  He showed up for only a nanosecond.  What happened to him?  He's a major actor so I don't get why he would show up in a bit part.

My guess is he was the Obi-Wan figure who was designated to watch over Rey by whoever left her there.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 18, 2015, 09:58:34 PM
I had a great time with the movie, and only had some relatively small gripes. Several of which several people have brought up already, so I'll just add a bit.
And I can't believe we're doing spoiler tags on a thread that is titled that it has spoilers, but whatever.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 10:06:40 PM
I prefer to let a movie take me for a ride so I don't want to guess what happens. If a movie takes me for a ride well enough, then I can feel like I am part of the movie and I won't think about what's going to happen next too much. It did that very well.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Rainbow Dash on December 18, 2015, 10:21:58 PM
Overall I really enjoyed it.  Felt like Star Wars, and easily better than the prequels.  All the action sequences except the stupid CGI monster on the Salvage ship were great.  I especially loved how the Lightsaber fights were sword fights and not the dance routines of the prequels.

Only 4 things that irked me though.

1.  Poor explanation of the state of the Galaxy.  The Republic runs things, so why is there still a resistance?  The First Order is supposed to be the smaller, yet highly organized force. 

2.  No Luke.  He needed to show up for that final battle.  He needed to do something other than be a nearly literal cliffhanger, standing on a cliff.

3.  Terrible tease with Gwendoline Christie.  Promote Captain Phasma like mad, and cast her in the role, then she does absolutely nothing during the entire film except get knocked over by Chewbacca...

4.  Snoke?  The big bad guy's name is Snoke?  Did Lucas force them to put that in there? 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 18, 2015, 10:31:48 PM
4.  Snoke?  The big bad guy's name is Snoke?  Did Lucas force them to put that in there?
You know how in other languages some words sound like something else, maybe something silly? Maybe some names in other languages might sound silly when you first hear them? My point is this: Whatever race or planet Snoke hails from, Snoke may for all we know be the verbal equivalent of "Nimrod", or "Mighty Warrior". I just don't think it's fair to judge a character by their name. Look at Dexster Jettster. Kind of a cool name I guess, but shitty character. Seriously... what's in a name? Example: Rainbow Dash sounds silly, but is in fact... bad ass.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 19, 2015, 04:34:37 AM
Quote
Leia and Luke will have larger roles in the next films (and I bet they are both going to die).

oh joy.

Genuine curiosity. What would you like to happen with the characters? Maybe what you imagine is better. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 19, 2015, 06:20:28 AM
Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.

And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.

I'm still pissed that JJ killed off Han. He did it to lend emotional weight to a movie that he was making and he didn't earn that. We care about Han because of 30 years of storytelling; you want emotional weight, kill off one of your own fucking characters, don't appropriate someone else's. It's cheap and shitty. He did the same thing in Star Trek when he blew up Vulcan.

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 19, 2015, 09:49:28 AM
My 3 year old son took his sister's purse, put  his lightsaber in it, and said, "I'm the girl from Star Wars"!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Henry88 on December 19, 2015, 10:53:34 AM
Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.

And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.

I'm still pissed that JJ killed off Han. He did it to lend emotional weight to a movie that he was making and he didn't earn that. We care about Han because of 30 years of storytelling; you want emotional weight, kill off one of your own fucking characters, don't appropriate someone else's. It's cheap and shitty. He did the same thing in Star Trek when he blew up Vulcan.

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.



like
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MSTJedi on December 19, 2015, 11:40:20 AM
Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.

And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.

I'm still pissed that JJ killed off Han. He did it to lend emotional weight to a movie that he was making and he didn't earn that. We care about Han because of 30 years of storytelling; you want emotional weight, kill off one of your own fucking characters, don't appropriate someone else's. It's cheap and shitty. He did the same thing in Star Trek when he blew up Vulcan.

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.



like

Maybe as a father, I can understand Han's motivations in trying to get through to his estranged son instead of feeling like he "went out like a punk". While it was shocking, I didn't thing it was a bad idea and it worked for the situation. I've always loved the character, but I also know him as a husband and father who went to amazing lengths for his family in the now-defunct EU as well as the hard-assed smuggler with a heart of gold from the OT.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 19, 2015, 11:57:38 AM
Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.

And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.

I'm still pissed that JJ killed off Han. He did it to lend emotional weight to a movie that he was making and he didn't earn that. We care about Han because of 30 years of storytelling; you want emotional weight, kill off one of your own fucking characters, don't appropriate someone else's. It's cheap and shitty. He did the same thing in Star Trek when he blew up Vulcan.

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.



like

Maybe as a father, I can understand Han's motivations in trying to get through to his estranged son instead of feeling like he "went out like a punk". While it was shocking, I didn't thing it was a bad idea and it worked for the situation. I've always loved the character, but I also know him as a husband and father who went to amazing lengths for his family in the now-defunct EU as well as the hard-assed smuggler with a heart of gold from the OT.
Yeah, I didn't see it as "he went out like a punk" at all. I get that he would have conflicted emotions over his son. He just wouldn't have been stupid enough to get that close if he hadn't been convinced to bring Ren back by Leia.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on December 19, 2015, 12:01:56 PM
Having watched the movie twice now, I'm perfectly okay with what JJ did with Han. I thought he delivered a lot of emotion with the character, both happy stuff like when he finally got back onto the Falcon (that look he makes when he's back in the cockpit is perfect), and a lot of good work with Leia with regards to more heavy, more heartfelt stuff. It also helps that his son is a really well realized character (the most interesting of the new batch), so their final moment together actually had some more stuff to it beyond "this is the scene where Han Solo dies". Han really, really wanted his son back, and he cared more about that than he did himself (and Han getting to a point where he cares about others more than himself ties right back to his original character arc). People saying stuff like "he let his guard down" are making him out to be someone who saw the situation as an him cautiously approaching an enemy, rather than a father trying desperately to bring his son home. That's not exactly a moment where you stick to shouting range and keep a blaster at the ready.

In a movie that makes a point of paying reverence to what came before but also getting the ball rolling for a new trilogy, that moment was both the toughest and most necessary bridge to cross. The original trilogy has come to pass, and the new one is making its mark. In a movie that's largely about playing things safe, doing something so big and permanent is a very good thing. However sad the actual act is.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 19, 2015, 12:13:15 PM
That's not exactly a moment where you stick to shouting range and keep a blaster at the ready.

That's exactly what Han would have done. Because Han is smart! But he was convinced by Leia. And we the audience know that there is some good in him left, and I don't doubt that Leia may have felt it via The Force.

I think the other part of why they killed of Han is that Harrison Ford is so old (and really looking run down even given his age) that it makes sense not to want to rely on him still being alive for filming the next one.
While I have issues with how that particular scene ended, this is a great last hurrah for Solo. I was thrilled that he was in it so much, I expected that it would be just a cameo. And if Harrison Ford were to pass away, it's a great performance to end on.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 19, 2015, 12:59:11 PM
The whole recovering the Falcon thing was shit too. So not only does he kill Han, he makes his later years really unhappy in the back story. With all of them, he totally undoes any success they had at the end of Jedi. Just shits on them. All so he can make additions - - unnecessary ones - - to an already finished story.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: PsychoGoatee on December 19, 2015, 02:48:23 PM
Gotta say, this is a great movie, lots of fun, and I'm excited for the future of Star Wars! Which is nice.

By the way, there was an inflatable Jabba the hutt in the lobby of my local theater! Quite impressive.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 19, 2015, 04:46:28 PM
So, I saw it. It was pretty good. I do have a lot of gripes with it and I think some people have nostalgia goggles on and wanted it to succeed, but I was hesitant, and I'm glad I was, because I think that it let me look at the movie from a more critical perspective instead of like OMG HAN'S BACK YASSS.

The Good
1. Rey was a FANTASTIC character. She was compelling, she was funny, she was strong, she was interesting. Daisy Ridley made that character OUTSTANDING, even with the iffy dialogue half the time.

2. Harrison Ford was excellent. Truly fantastic. It was fun watching him play the character again, and he really worked hard on making that final performance a great one.

3. I am really happy to see that there's actual diversity among the cast! The prequels and the original trilogy were good, but they were overwhelmingly white, with a few token black men thrown in here and there for inclusion. JJ and company have FINALLY shown that there can be some diversity throughout the galaxy, which opens the doors to include more people of color and women in leading roles, at least in Franchise.

4. Despite Soguru's insistence that it wasn't derivative, it very much was. I felt like I should've made a TFA Bingo card and taken it into the theater with me. This wasn't a bad thing. Indeed, it was nice to essentially watch a best of reel of A New Hope. Some of JJ's story was iffy and the writing wasn't the best, but the parts that were copy pasted from A New Hope were very nice and fairly well done.

The Bad

1. Kylo Ren is an awful villain and Adam Driver's acting was at least as bad as Hayden Christensen's. He was a whiny, annoying brat. His story is LITERALLY "My grandpa ran an entire galaxy, I wanna be like him". He REALLY seemed like he's going through an angsty emo phase. All his ridiculous tantrums, his daddy issues that rival mine. I feel like his room would be plastered in Linkin Park posters.

2. I found Finn to be pretty mediocre and irritating. He felt like he was one note and flat to me, and didn't really seem to be there for anything except to be there for Rey. Which is fine, but I think he could've been more fleshed out.

3. Rey's discovery of her Force powers was REALLY stupid and contrived. Seriously, it was ridiculous. I've been trying to justify her reasons for thinking she might be sensitive and capable of it, and the CLOSEST I can come up with is that she realized that if Ren was scared of her, that meant that she must have something inside of her, and what scares the Dark Side more than sensing another Force user? Still, pretty stupid, and irritating that she could do what she did without ANY training. Fuck, even Luke was taught how to use the Force SOMEWHAT. Anakin had to be trained to do any of that stuff, too. It may imply that she's stronger than either of them, but I think it was stupid as hell.

4. Snoke is a stupid name.

5. Ren should've mopped the floor with Rey and Finn. I don't care that he got hit with a bowcaster. There's no reason he shouldn't slaughter both of them other than plot armor. Pain can either be ignored(The Jedi way) or channeled into anger and hate(The Sith Way). And we know he hated Rey and Finn. Until she went all zen at the end, he would've crushed the untrained Force sensitive with his training.

6. The lightsaber battle was lame. Seriously. Easily the worst in the series. In fact, the action scenes outside of the Falcon were pretty awful. They were cluttered and confused, with constant switching of shots that made it so I couldn't keep track of anything.

7. The dialogue was SO BAD. It was really forcedand awkward so much of the time, I really felt like I was sitting through a bad high school play.

So, yeah. It was pretty good, but there were definite problems with it. I'd actually say it's better than A New Hope, which to some may be high praise, but I think that it's the third worst in the series, behind Phantom Menace at number two and Attack of the Clones at number 1. It's a mid tier Star Wars movie, which is definitely better than I thought it'd be.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 19, 2015, 06:59:49 PM
4. Despite Soguru's insistence that it wasn't derivative, it very much was.
I think I got an answer for anybody who plays the "Awww, it's too derivative" card. That sort of begs the question... how derivative was A new hope of Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"? I dare say the same as a lot of other people- There are a lot of similarities, inescapable ones, but there are plenty of things that are different enough that it can stand on its own.
One time I admitted it was derivative.
As for the Re-hashing though? Anything re-hashed at least feels like it was EARNED. The story was good, the new characters were amazing, and in a way, the stuff that felt like it was re-used was done so to much better dramatic effect.
Lawful, I never said it wasn't derivative. To the contrary, I admitted it, TWICE!

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.
What is this with labeling Ren as emo all of a sudden? i don't think you're giving him enough credit, not you or Lawful, there are some subtleties that make him a far more interesting character than Vader in his prime. Kylo's sense of right and wrong is so fucked over that he truly believes evil is good and vice versa. I don't think Vader was ever like that, he saw the Empire as the means to order, but he never saw himself as a hero or some kind of champion. Vader, in killing his own flesh and blood would destroy himself, but Ren had to test himself, to see if he could pass the test and overcome the natural affection family has for one another. In that respect, Ren is anything but Emo, Ren is in essence seeking not just the dark side, but in addition a certain level of apathy towards certain specific aspects of himself and the universe. In this way, he's a damn scary villain because if he can
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.
And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.
Thank you, glad you could be so understanding.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Rainbow Dash on December 19, 2015, 07:48:25 PM
5. Ren should've mopped the floor with Rey and Finn. I don't care that he got hit with a bowcaster. There's no reason he shouldn't slaughter both of them other than plot armor. Pain can either be ignored(The Jedi way) or channeled into anger and hate(The Sith Way). And we know he hated Rey and Finn. Until she went all zen at the end, he would've crushed the untrained Force sensitive with his training.

6. The lightsaber battle was lame. Seriously. Easily the worst in the series. In fact, the action scenes outside of the Falcon were pretty awful. They were cluttered and confused, with constant switching of shots that made it so I couldn't keep track of anything.


The fight made sense.  Both Finn and Rey, while not trained with Lightsabers, were both trained in melee combat.  Ren was injured badly by Chewie.  He fought Finn and dispatched him fairly quickly, but he expended more energy while injured.  With his stamina in question and injuries, I don't see it's so far fetched that Rey would get the better of him.  Not to mention Ren's mental state was probably out of whack, having just killed his Father.

As for the fight, I liked it.  it had weight to it.  It felt like a sword fight again, and not the over choreographed dance routines of the Prequels where they were more concerned with hitting their marks, feet away from their target, than doing any damage to their opponent. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 19, 2015, 08:33:12 PM

As for the fight, I liked it.  it had weight to it.  It felt like a sword fight again, and not the over choreographed dance routines of the Prequels where they were more concerned with hitting their marks, feet away from their target, than doing any damage to their opponent.
Agreed. They felt brutal. It reminded me more of the end fight between Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi, when Luke starts to just smash at Vader.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 19, 2015, 09:43:01 PM
Agreed. They felt brutal. It reminded me more of the end fight between Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi, when Luke starts to just smash at Vader.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whole duel was the best one in all of Star Wars. Yes, even better between the final duel between Luke and Vader. I felt every hit, every strike changed the nature of the situation and the flow of the combat and made it that much more intense and... I really felt scared for Rey. In this movie, I grew to love her as a character. She is truly amazing.

On a side note, I'd like to say that I'm very sad that... a few certain people here didn't enjoy the movie as much as I hoped they would. Some people here have pretty much always been voices that have dissented from my own on every occasion, and I hoped, yearned, wanted so badly for them to feel the same emotions and have the same reaction I did to the movie... and it breaks my heart because I want so badly for a lot of people here to see things through my eyes.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 19, 2015, 10:10:40 PM
Agreed. They felt brutal. It reminded me more of the end fight between Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi, when Luke starts to just smash at Vader.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whole duel was the best one in all of Star Wars. Yes, even better between the final duel between Luke and Vader. I felt every hit, every strike changed the nature of the situation and the flow of the combat and made it that much more intense and... I really felt scared for Rey. In this movie, I grew to love her as a character. She is truly amazing.

On a side note, I'd like to say that I'm very sad that... a few certain people here didn't enjoy the movie as much as I hoped they would. Some people here have pretty much always been voices that have dissented from my own on every occasion, and I hoped, yearned, wanted so badly for them to feel the same emotions and have the same reaction I did to the movie... and it breaks my heart because I want so badly for a lot of people here to see things through my eyes.
Can't make people feel things, bruh. It was good, just not super godlike. I get that you think its amazing, but don't let my and others various levels of entertainment affect you, or you'll never be satisfied. I think the only real thing JJ did was construct his first good character ever. And she made the movie for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: PsychoGoatee on December 19, 2015, 11:48:37 PM
I'm glad that I love the movie, since there have certainly been a couple SW flicks that left me pretty disappointed. But it's all personal taste, I'm sure somebody who doesn't like this movie likes a movie that you don't like, and... the balance of the force... it lives on...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 20, 2015, 02:07:45 PM
But that's what I like about this discussion, to be honest.  I figured that in a lot of ways, this movie was going to be divisive, because of what was going on with the series as a whole.

But Soguru, I will tell you this: I was in high school when Phantom Menace came out.  When I saw it, I completely let my mind blow past Jar-Jar, midichlorians, Jake Lloyd, and a bunch of other stuff.  What I saw when I saw that was new Star Wars that I thought was never going to happen, and I still thought the fight between Darth Maul, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon was thrilling and stunning.

The next day at school, I heard everybody I knew completely harp on how utterly stupid, pointless, and gibberish garbage it was.

I'll be the first to admit, the prequels have problems...many problems.  Many, many problems.  I know exactly why everyone dislikes them and I don't have any interest in changing anyone's opinions on them, and I have many of the same qualms about them.  But there's stuff I see in them, too, that no amount of negative feedback can make me dislike, either.  I still like that duel, ballet style or not.  It's still very well-filmed and powerful in its own way.  In the same way, I appreciate the characters and the way the story of VII is developing, and I think it's going to turn into something remarkable, but I didn't get the thrill that my child self felt watching the original movies or high school me did watching Jedi duke it out.  It doesn't mean I hated it, or I think the film is fundamentally flawed...I completely understand why people like the new one, and I like it too.  But I also know it's weird to see something you like and really enjoy and watch people rip it apart, because I went through the same thing.

In other words, I like hearing both sides of it, because I lived through it once before, and I personally think the fun of it is seeing it all unfold a second (and third, technically) time.  And that its so discussable is a great thing, good and bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 20, 2015, 02:23:28 PM
Please don't do that. If there's one thing that's changed in me since 1999, it's my ability to be openly and readily critical of something right away as opposed to weeks or months later. I'm not letting myself look past the flaws of The Force Awakens, I'm so damn cynical and negative that it would be hard for me not to be these days.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Rainbow Dash on December 20, 2015, 03:22:35 PM
Tough to defend a film series with three pretty definitive reviews about their totally and complete failure as both Star Wars films, and films in general.  Most other films that people can argue about don't have that.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MattD1972 on December 20, 2015, 04:03:51 PM
I don't know if they filmed Harrison Ford's scenes chronologically, but it felt like he got better as the movie went on. Sad to see him go. Carrie Fisher is a lot more problematic. It feels like she had a stroke sometime recently. That, or we have to break out the Rick James quote.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 20, 2015, 04:19:51 PM
I don't know if they filmed Harrison Ford's scenes chronologically, but it felt like he got better as the movie went on. Sad to see him go. Carrie Fisher is a lot more problematic. It feels like she had a stroke sometime recently. That, or we have to break out the Rick James quote.

While watching the movie I was more and more thrilled at how much Han Solo we were getting, since I thought he'd just be cameo. So I was hoping we'd get similarly a lot of Leia too. I figured by now she might be a pilot too or something. A more active character like she FINALLY became in Return of the Jedi. But she really was just a cameo. I don't know if it's because Carrie Fisher couldn't handle a bigger role, or what. But I am hoping that she has more of a role in the subsequent movies. Given that she's the leader of the rebels now, I would expect to see her do a little more.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 20, 2015, 08:18:29 PM
I'd love to see Leia as a pilot too. Have her do something dramatically important and general-like.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MrTorso on December 20, 2015, 09:22:55 PM
I'd love to see Leia as a pilot too. Have her do something dramatically important and general-like.

What generals go on missions?  IF movies have taught me one thing is that generals/leaders stay at the base with a big map and little models of planes/tanks/infantry that they push around with craps stick.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on December 20, 2015, 09:25:20 PM
Patton?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 20, 2015, 09:33:47 PM
I agree that one of the things I really liked about it is that Han isn't just tossed into the movie to please fans.  In a lot of ways, it is his story as well as the stories of the new people, regardless of what you think of his fate at the end of the movie.

And earlier, all I was doing was saying I just think it's good to have a rational discussion about a movie, and the stuff about the prequels let me look at them more critically, but also to not feel bad about liking the stuff I like regardless of consensus.  I'm in a weird place in this one where I liked Force Awakens, but didn't love it to pieces the way the critical consensus depicts.  It didn't "wow" me the way I hoped, but I walked into it the same way I walked out...cautiously optimistic.  And that's not a bad place to be.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on December 21, 2015, 02:56:57 PM

7. The dialogue was SO BAD. It was really forcedand awkward so much of the time, I really felt like I was sitting through a bad high school play.

THANK you.  I'm glad I'm not the only one.  Started to think I was going crazy...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 21, 2015, 03:09:19 PM

7. The dialogue was SO BAD. It was really forcedand awkward so much of the time, I really felt like I was sitting through a bad high school play.

THANK you.  I'm glad I'm not the only one.  Started to think I was going crazy...

I thought the worst of it came from Finn and Kylo Ren. Everything felt just like it was Space Action Movie with Star Wars things thrown in, aND Adam Driver was Hayden Christensen 2.0
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on December 21, 2015, 04:08:18 PM
 I don't know where to start, so, for now I just want to talk a bit about Kylo Ren. I thought Adam Driver's performance was captivating. His Kylo Ren is weak and driven by fear and suffering. I have never seen this type of villain in Star Wars before. I've seen blind anger and slow rage plenty of times, but there was something striking about this character that was incredibly strong with the Force, but also emotionally crippled. I think it is a reductive, dismissive thing to compare Adam to Hayden here. Hayden acted like he stubbed his toe. Adam wallowed in misery and weakness in a deluge of envious thoughts, perpetually terrifying himself with his own past actions. His internalization of his character is truly impressive. It was a creative risk, having the villain be a piteous coward, one that I think paid off. That motivation of self-loathing and guilt and regret really rang true in his actions. The need to be as "strong" as he perceived his grandfather was "strong" and to never feel as if he lived up to his own expectations. He thought if he could become dark enough, he could become powerful and wouldn't have to feel those feelings or memories again. The need to have his own dark mask, not because he needed it to survive, but because he is a coward who uses the facade as a tool to feel powerful and intimidating and to better emulate his ancestor. All of this while his dark side connection only fueled his fears and his strength in his fears.

 Beyond the performance, the character was cool. His use of the force amounts to desperately grasping/preventing actions from occurring(seizing a plasma bolt or staying an opponent's hand) or relentlessly searching and prying for information, knowing some information out of fear. The fearful interrogator. I really found this interesting. When he stares at Finn before leaving Jakku, as he prayed to Vader to help him stop feeling "pangs" of the light, when he pleaded that he could do the job to Snoke, when he begged his father to die, when he realized that killing his father would not stop how he felt and silently mouthed "fa-ther" as his body fell away. As he repeatedly struck his wounded side, attacking his own pain. Hating his weakness and mourning his stupidity in killing his father, demanding of himself to sink beneath his feelings he begins to toy with the lives of Finn and Rey. Oh, and his lightsaber, as silly as I thought it looked in the trailers, really embodied his character. Cracked, fragile, volatile, seething, flickering, unraveling.

 All that said, I've seen the movie thrice now and I am clearly biased, so there is that... but, hey, that should work a bit for me as well? I've had more time to analyze. No? Fine, fine. Let me know if any of that made sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 21, 2015, 04:20:16 PM
His saber only crackled because he removed the limiting field. Speaking as someone who sees conflicted teens on a weekly basis, Ren wasn't conflicted; he was a kid who wanted to be conflicted. He wanted to pretend he had a terrible life, because he wanted to emulate grandpa's hard decisions and life. I think the comparison between Christensen and Driver is reasonable, because they're both attempting and failing to play a depressed tortured character.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MSTJedi on December 21, 2015, 04:51:42 PM
His saber only crackled because he removed the limiting field. Speaking as someone who sees conflicted teens on a weekly basis, Ren wasn't conflicted; he was a kid who wanted to be conflicted. He wanted to pretend he had a terrible life, because he wanted to emulate grandpa's hard decisions and life. I think the comparison between Christensen and Driver is reasonable, because they're both attempting and failing to play a depressed tortured character.

Yeah, but I think the pathetic nature is intentional on Driver's part. Ren doesn't realize that by being impetuous and conflicted he's emulating his grandfather's path more than he realizes. If we accept Christensen's early version of Vader, we assume that over the years his rage calmed into the badassery we see in the OT.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 21, 2015, 05:52:07 PM
7. The dialogue was SO BAD. It was really forcedand awkward so much of the time, I really felt like I was sitting through a bad high school play.
THANK you.  I'm glad I'm not the only one.  Started to think I was going crazy...
No, the dialogue was not great, but it was not bad either. What the hell are the both of you expecting? Maybe you should be thinking less about the writing and more about the characters. I mean we're basically watching the interactions of:
1)Finn- A guy who has been forcefully trained his whole life to shoot at stuff and feel a conditioned reaction to doing his job.
2)Rey-  A woman who has been abandoned and forced to fend for herself with potentially very little education.
3)Ren- A guy whose moral compass is simply and completely backwards, "By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced"(back to the light), THAT is interesting, and very un-Anakin. He doesn't come of as emo to me at all, instead, he feels like a twisted version of TV's Dexter Morgan. I'll tell you what else is un-Anakin, taking a laser-blast to the kidney and then trying to walk it off. I don't know if any of you have experienced Kidney pain, but I HAVE. It hurts like somebody constantly shoving a hot iron inside of a stab wound. You underestimate Ren. I really like his complexities, and the guy is bad-ass and instead of whining, his weaknesses come across in ways he doesn't show outwardly, he shows determination for his cause. In this way, he is most un-Anakin.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 21, 2015, 06:13:27 PM
7. The dialogue was SO BAD. It was really forcedand awkward so much of the time, I really felt like I was sitting through a bad high school play.
THANK you.  I'm glad I'm not the only one.  Started to think I was going crazy...
No, the dialogue was not great, but it was not bad either. What the hell are the both of you expecting? Maybe you should be thinking less about the writing and more about the characters. I mean we're basically watching the interactions of:
1)Finn- A guy who has been forcefully trained his whole life to shoot at stuff and feel a conditioned reaction to doing his job.
2)Rey-  A woman who has been abandoned and forced to fend for herself with potentially very little education.
3)Ren- A guy whose moral compass is simply and completely backwards, "By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced"(back to the light), THAT is interesting, and very un-Anakin. He doesn't come of as emo to me at all, instead, he feels like a twisted version of TV's Dexter Morgan. I'll tell you what else is un-Anakin, taking a laser-blast to the kidney and then trying to walk it off. I don't know if any of you have experienced Kidney pain, but I HAVE. It hurts like somebody constantly shoving a hot iron inside of a stab wound. You underestimate Ren. I really like his complexities, and the guy is bad-ass and instead of whining, his weaknesses come across in ways he doesn't show outwardly, he shows determination for his cause. In this way, he is most un-Anakin.

I have NO idea what you're talking about. The characters are products of the writing, so you have to think about one to think about the other. Not to mention that I've said that Rey was excellent and, in my opinion, better than Luke was in Episode 4. In the remake of Ep 4, though, a few things stick out to me. The villain is shitty and unmenacing. Christensen pulled a MUCH better job of being brooding and upset in Attack of the Clones, the defacto WORST SW movie, than driver managed to portray. The supporting lead of the opposite gender, in this case Finn, is a much less interesting character than Leia was in the Original trilogy. He filled the role, sure, but I don't really care about him.

And yes, the writing isn't necessarily the be all end all of the characters. But each of the actors that portray them in their own way and give them life. Driver and Boyega did terrible jobs, and Ridley did an amazing job. This is all opinion, as I think is fairly obvious. I also think that your excessive buying into the massive hype colors the hell out of your opinion. Nothing wrong with that. I still feel that you're taking my lesser enjoyment as a personal insult. I don't know what you want from me. It seems like you want me to say that this is the best and be all end all of Movies, and that's just not going to happen, because I think it was pretty damned mid tier.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 21, 2015, 06:35:10 PM
You've seen me admit the flaws again and again, why would I be buying into the massive hype if that were the case?

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 21, 2015, 09:37:48 PM
Patton?

Patton was an irresponsible asshole with severe megalomania.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 21, 2015, 11:19:55 PM
OK, just watched it, and read this thread.



I enjoyed it, not as many flaws as I was expecting.   I was expecting callbacks, but not an entire movie full of them...



I kind of agree with the complaints about Finn being too good at everything, I hope we find out later that the force has also awakened in him to explain his abilities somewhat.

Rey was the best new character, I guess the question is was it her parents or her that were there to be trained by Luke at the Jedi training camp?  Even if it was her parents she would have been exposed to the lessons, that would explain her being able to use the force so quickly.

Han going on that catwalk seemed right, he was either going to get his son back or die trying.  The father and son on a catwalk bit stole some of the seriousness away from it, that was one place there shouldn't have been a callback.  Also, Han had to know the fate of his son if he didn't turn him back to the light, so wouldn't want to be the one to have to destroy his own son later on.

As for Vader's grandson, that's got to be the weak point with the new characters, he had parents and an uncle around, how was he turned?

The soundtrack was very forgettable except during the callbacks.  It was nice to hear Leia's theme again when she showed up, and there was a nice beat with the Falcon at one point, but did Rey even get her own theme?  If she did I didn't notice it.

All in all, most of the emotional beats worked well, good mix of laughs and almost tearing up.


So I guess Luke is going to have to learn to be Yoda for the next installment?  If Han was Obi-Wan in this one Luke has to be Yoda in the next one, right?   ;D


Two complaints that took me out of the movie slightly:

Is the new dark lords' name an homage to George Lucas or J.K. Rolling?  Ugh...

So, what's the deal with the big weapon being powered by a star, and the stupid idea of draining all the power from it?  Did no one bother to look up how much fracking power is in a star?  And how do they fire it again if they drain the star with each shot?  Does that entire planet have to be moved to a different system to drain a new star?  Would have made a lot more sense if they simply drained off enough to fire, you could still see when it was done by the trail of plasma between the star and planet going away.  I know Star Wars is fantasy and not science fiction but the powering of the weapon was just stupid.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 22, 2015, 12:16:57 AM
Neil Smoke DeGrasse Tyson complained on that last one, actually
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 12:21:51 AM
Neil Smoke DeGrasse Tyson complained on that last one, actually

Cool, it's always nice to be in agreement with the Neil.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 22, 2015, 12:22:16 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/w4JsPgO.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 22, 2015, 12:53:40 AM
So, what's the deal with the big weapon being powered by a star, and the stupid idea of draining all the power from it?  Did no one bother to look up how much fracking power is in a star?  And how do they fire it again if they drain the star with each shot?  Does that entire planet have to be moved to a different system to drain a new star? 
Sigh... are we really going to start scrutinizing science in a Star Wars film? A Science Fantasy film? I wouldn't even do that with the prequels(mostly because science is the very least of their problems)!! I mean I have no Earthly goddamn idea how a light saber could ever work or exist, but I accept it because it's fucking awesome. Star Killer base is fucking awesome. Same thing with Transporters, warp drive, cloaking devices. It doesn't matter how they work, what matters is that I as a member of the audience can suspend my disbelief because as a fan of science fantasy, that's kind of my job.

I've already addressed the deal with the callbacks like half a dozen goddamn times. One critic said it best when he said people were overall complaining that the prequels weren't enough like the original trilogy, so when JJ makes a movie... he makes it like the original trilogy... and people still complain anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 22, 2015, 02:29:29 AM
Soguru, you need to dial it back. Your posts are too emotional and defensive. I am telling you this because I am your friend.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on December 22, 2015, 09:00:35 AM
Soguru, you need to dial it back. Your posts are too emotional and defensive. I am telling you this because I am your friend.

SOGURU needs to dial it back? Have you even been READING any of Lawful Cupcake's posts?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 22, 2015, 09:13:29 AM
Soguru, you need to dial it back. Your posts are too emotional and defensive. I am telling you this because I am your friend.

SOGURU needs to dial it back? Have you even been READING any of Lawful Cupcake's posts?

I don't see myself being emotional and defensive. I've told him that it's great that he likes the movie, but that he can't make others like it as much as he does. I think it's a pretty alright movie. If you feel I'm being inappropriate, PLEASE, report me to the moderators. As it is, I don't see that I've done anything except state my opinion.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 09:17:29 AM
So, what's the deal with the big weapon being powered by a star, and the stupid idea of draining all the power from it?  Did no one bother to look up how much fracking power is in a star?  And how do they fire it again if they drain the star with each shot?  Does that entire planet have to be moved to a different system to drain a new star? 
Sigh... are we really going to start scrutinizing science in a Star Wars film? A Science Fantasy film? I wouldn't even do that with the prequels(mostly because science is the very least of their problems)!! I mean I have no Earthly goddamn idea how a light saber could ever work or exist, but I accept it because it's fucking awesome. Star Killer base is fucking awesome. Same thing with Transporters, warp drive, cloaking devices. It doesn't matter how they work, what matters is that I as a member of the audience can suspend my disbelief because as a fan of science fantasy, that's kind of my job.

I've already addressed the deal with the callbacks like half a dozen goddamn times. One critic said it best when he said people were overall complaining that the prequels weren't enough like the original trilogy, so when JJ makes a movie... he makes it like the original trilogy... and people still complain anyway.

Calm down, my post wasn't to you, and why did you ignore the positive things I had to say?

Sorry I couldn't suspend my disbelief as much as you, all those things you list are pretty easy to do that with except for this one, it would have been so easy to fix the massive error with the giant weapon, just change a couple lines of dialog and one special effect slightly.  Just say it was powered by a star so it has more power than can possibly be imagined.  See, they could have even gotten in another callback!

I wasn't really complaining about the callbacks, except the one I mentioned, I just wasn't expecting so many, most of them invoked a nice feeling of nostalgia.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Pak-Man on December 22, 2015, 09:39:20 AM
*Stumbles into this thread with his mod hat on and a hand over his eyes*

Um, I accidentally clicked in here and it looks like there's something that needs light moderation, and I don't want to read anything to get details because I don't want THOSE details, so EVERYONE:

Repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."

Don't make me have to risk being spoilered to get more details!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 09:52:38 AM
It doesn't matter how they work, what matters is that I as a member of the audience can suspend my disbelief because as a fan of science fantasy, that's kind of my job.

Feel like I need to respond to this one separately.

That's somewhat of a unique perspective on being an audience member, we are the ones paying, so we should be considered the boss, not the employee.  ;D

I'd say it's the film makers job to not have plot holes that crash your suspension of disbelief.  Doesn't matter what the type of movie is, there are levels of disbelief in all movies that have to be overcome.  In a drama you can't have a character do something too far away from what is expected based on what they have done before, in an action movie you shouldn't have infinite bullets.  That's what this was, the moment they said the weapon drains the star until it goes out I thought "how do they reload, they already fired it once?", that took me out of the movie for a moment and flagged that as something to think about later.  And after the movie is a bad time to analyze specific things like that.

Also, it is possible to not like a few moments in a movie and still like it overall.  I will be getting this movie on Blu-Ray when it comes out, I'm hoping this is the first JJ movie that I'll be able to watch multiple times.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on December 22, 2015, 10:12:03 AM
Oi Vey...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 22, 2015, 10:18:30 AM
It doesn't matter how they work, what matters is that I as a member of the audience can suspend my disbelief because as a fan of science fantasy, that's kind of my job.

Feel like I need to respond to this one separately.

That's somewhat of a unique perspective on being an audience member, we are the ones paying, so we should be considered the boss, not the employee.  ;D

I'd say it's the film makers job to not have plot holes that crash your suspension of disbelief.  Doesn't matter what the type of movie is, there are levels of disbelief in all movies that have to be overcome.  In a drama you can't have a character do something too far away from what is expected based on what they have done before, in an action movie you shouldn't have infinite bullets.  That's what this was, the moment they said the weapon drains the star until it goes out I thought "how do they reload, they already fired it once?", that took me out of the movie for a moment and flagged that as something to think about later.  And after the movie is a bad time to analyze specific things like that.

Also, it is possible to not like a few moments in a movie and still like it overall.  I will be getting this movie on Blu-Ray when it comes out, I'm hoping this is the first JJ movie that I'll be able to watch multiple times.

It's no different than going to a play and seeing the curtain rustle. It takes you out of the moment. I actually remember being confused about the whole reloading thing, too... the only answer I had was maybe they were in a binary star system? But that's still stupid, because they only increased their ammo capacity by one. Either the First Order is a literal analog for US Government spending, or they're stupid as hell for constructing a weapon they could fire ONCE.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on December 22, 2015, 10:36:38 AM
I kind of read the situation as the planet was absorbing all the energy that the sun was radiating out (including the light which is why the sun appeared to go out) but not the sun's mass or internal energy, so once the weapon had stored the energy and fired, the sun would re-appear as its energy was no longer being diverted. If I'm right, its possible that this could have been explained better, but to me JJ's biggest flaw is sacrificing logic for visual storytelling.

It's the same flaw that led to the Resistance being able to see the planets of the Republic explode in the sky despite most likely not being in the same solar system, so the light should have been tiny and traveling for thousands of years before being visible. I get that the weapon fires at hyperspace speeds, but not the explosions. This wasn't important to him because he wants to tell the story with the visual of the Resistance watching, not with someone reporting what happened by reading a monitor. It was the same reason he put Spock on a nameless and impossible planet/moon in Star Trek to watch Vulcan be destroyed in the sky.

That's really the biggest thing that bothered me in the movie, and I honestly didn't even think about it until an hour or two after leaving the theater. Didn't ruin anything for me, I think of it like I think of the "parsecs" mistake.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 11:15:24 AM
It's the same flaw that led to the Resistance being able to see the planets of the Republic explode in the sky despite most likely not being in the same solar system, so the light should have been tiny and traveling for thousands of years before being visible. I get that the weapon fires at hyperspace speeds, but not the explosions.

I thought those planets were in the same system, but the planet/moon BB-8 was on was not targeted because they wanted the map and they were sending troops there to get it.   Best not to think about how they could see the energy beams when they should be in hyperspace traveling faster than light.

Your thought about only sucking up the radiated energy is interesting, some kind of energy absorbing field put around the star, and it just so happens that it takes the exact amount of time to charge as the distance in light minutes between the star and the planet.  Once the field is shut down there would be a few minutes of darkness while the light travels from the star to the planet.

OK, I could go with that, considering what the rebels know about the weapon came from someone on the sanitation squad it could be believable he didn't have all his facts correct.  ;D

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on December 22, 2015, 11:23:53 AM
It's the same flaw that led to the Resistance being able to see the planets of the Republic explode in the sky despite most likely not being in the same solar system, so the light should have been tiny and traveling for thousands of years before being visible. I get that the weapon fires at hyperspace speeds, but not the explosions.

I thought those planets were in the same system, but the planet/moon BB-8 was on was not targeted because they wanted the map and they were sending troops there to get it.   Best not to think about how they could see the energy beams when they should be in hyperspace traveling faster than light.

If those planets were in the same system, that would make more sense and I could get behind that, but I missed it if they mentioned that. I got the impression that they didn't know where the Resistance base was until they tracked the ships leaving the battle on Takadona. It wouldn't seem right for the Resistance to be so close since they're apparently separate from the Republic, acting independently and without the Republic's support and blessing.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on December 22, 2015, 11:27:03 AM
I may be mixing up the order of scenes in my head too, I'm looking through a synopsis to help make my points. Might need to re-watch again soon to see if it makes more sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 11:48:18 AM
 It was confusing why they fired on that first system, they were talking about making a statement but also about the rebel base and wasn't there something about getting rid of part of the republic as well?  I assumed they fired on that system because they knew BB-8 was taken there and they assumed it was filled with support for the rebels.

The whole political structure is very confusing, did the fall of the emperor result in 3 factions all wanting control?  The rebels, the old republic, and what was left of the military became the first order? 

A tiny bit more explanation of that would have been nice, not too much, that's the type of thing that you put in a novel, try to put too much of it in the movie and you end up with stuff like the endless trade negotiations from the prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 22, 2015, 11:53:47 AM
*Stumbles into this thread with his mod hat on and a hand over his eyes*

Um, I accidentally clicked in here and it looks like there's something that needs light moderation, and I don't want to read anything to get details because I don't want THOSE details, so EVERYONE:

Repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."

Don't make me have to risk being spoilered to get more details!

LIKE.  I found this funny :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on December 22, 2015, 12:00:49 PM
It was confusing why they fired on that first system, they were talking about making a statement but also about the rebel base and wasn't there something about getting rid of part of the republic as well?  I assumed they fired on that system because they knew BB-8 was taken there and they assumed it was filled with support for the rebels.

The whole political structure is very confusing, did the fall of the emperor result in 3 factions all wanting control?  The rebels, the old republic, and what was left of the military became the first order? 

A tiny bit more explanation of that would have been nice, not too much, that's the type of thing that you put in a novel, try to put too much of it in the movie and you end up with stuff like the endless trade negotiations from the prequels.

There are two major powers, The First Order and The Republic. The attack that destroyed multiple planets was mentioned in a scene as "destroying the illegitimate government of the Republic."

The Resistance is a separate and tiny group that was fighting the First Order despite the wishes of the Republic, which had a peace treaty in place. In Star Trek terms, they're the Maquis.

The detail about the treaty came from reading about the novelization of the movie today, but the rest I was able to catch from the movie, though it could have been made clearer.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 22, 2015, 12:08:04 PM
Soguru, you need to dial it back. Your posts are too emotional and defensive.
I know.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 12:09:29 PM
I thought they embargoed the novel for a few weeks more so wasn't looking for it.  Downloading it to my Kindle now.  And it's written by my favorite author.  Cool, I'll need something to read this weekend while stuck in a hotel room.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 22, 2015, 12:16:16 PM
There are two major powers, The First Order and The Republic. The attack that destroyed multiple planets was mentioned in a scene as "destroying the illegitimate government of the Republic."

The Resistance is a separate and tiny group that was fighting the First Order despite the wishes of the Republic, which had a peace treaty in place.

The detail about the treaty came from reading about the novelization of the movie today, but the rest I was able to catch from the movie, though it could have been made clearer.

I was wondering that myself.  I had missed a little bit of the story there and assumed the Resistance was acting on behalf of the Republic because the Republic wouldn't (or couldn't) fight back.  I just didn't know the WHY of it.

And the science of the Starkiller itself...I didn't buy the "star-sucking" aspect as something that was either 1. reasonable, or 2. efficient, but that's one that I rolled with, because the visual effect was impressive.  But it does lead to one of the things I didn't care for in this entry...I think I mentioned it before, but when the Starkiller goes down, it just sort of...implodes.  It doesn't make much of a fuss about itself.  Yes, it becomes a star all of its own, but for something twelve times as destructive (and about 40 times the size) of the Death Star...couldn't there even have been a big musical sting for it?  I mean, where's the kaboom?  Where's the galaxy-shattering kaboom? ;)

Another thing that was confusing at first was it took me awhile to realize the ice world was supposed to be the outside of the Starkiller, that it was just so massive that it had its own atmosphere.  I thought it was a nice touch, but at the same time it also had a fully grown forest on it.  Just how long did it take to build this thing, and when did it start?  And who brought all the seeds to start the Metro Park? ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 22, 2015, 12:25:39 PM
I'd say it's the film makers job to not have plot holes that crash your suspension of disbelief.  Doesn't matter what the type of movie is, there are levels of disbelief in all movies that have to be overcome.
Also, it is possible to not like a few moments in a movie and still like it overall.  I will be getting this movie on Blu-Ray when it comes out, I'm hoping this is the first JJ movie that I'll be able to watch multiple times.
It depends a lot on the overall quality of the film. More than that though, I think the idea of using a star to powering something is a convention that has been used in science fiction before. I seem to remember the idea of a Dyson Sphere or something? I don't need a lot of particulars, scientific fact is completely bent to the will of the force in Star Wars. I can accept certain leaps that fall far beyond the realm of logic, so why can't other people?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 12:26:47 PM
Another thing that was confusing at first was it took me awhile to realize the ice world was supposed to be the outside of the Starkiller, that it was just so massive that it had its own atmosphere.  I thought it was a nice touch, but at the same time it also had a fully grown forest on it.  Just how long did it take to build this thing, and when did it start?  And who brought all the seeds to start the Metro Park? ;)

They called it a planet a few times.  So we have to assume they built the weapon into an existing planet, I don't see them bringing in soil and planting trees on their mega-weapon.  The external views they always showed were kind of strange, so you couldn't really tell it was a planet, like there was a permanent haze around it?  Maybe that was the defensive shield?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 12:32:58 PM
I can accept certain leaps that fall far beyond the realm of logic, so why can't other people?

That's pretty simple, because everyone is different, with different thresholds of what it takes to shake their suspension of disbelief. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 22, 2015, 12:33:23 PM
Ha!  Not only was Daniel Craig in it, but check out his name:

(http://s30.postimg.org/uzi5pmpup/jb_007.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on December 22, 2015, 12:39:10 PM
Ha!  Not only was Daniel Craig in it, but check out his name:

(http://s30.postimg.org/uzi5pmpup/jb_007.jpg)

Awesome. Apparently he was the stormtrooper who
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 22, 2015, 12:44:09 PM
So Craig made a funny.  Nice.

That's pretty simple, because everyone is different, with different thresholds of what it takes to shake their suspension of disbelief.

It's true.  A lot of people loved Inception, and at its heart, it's a crime caper with a science fiction twist.

I couldn't enjoy it simply because dreams don't work like that, and my brain won't accept that much of the premise to let the rest go by.  That might also be because I did a research project about it back in school and I know too much about it.  And while a minor quibble, putting A.D. after the date is another one of those things that bug me, but not enough that I throw the movie out.  It's the same thing when people can't watch Titanic because they know art, and they know a painting hanging up in the foyer was painted in 1913 and couldn't have been on the bridge while everyone else is worried about whatever will happen to Billy Zane.  Well, that's what I was worried about...what, was that movie supposed to be about somebody else? ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on December 22, 2015, 12:49:58 PM
I think having the Death Star 3.0 in the first place was a bad move and that blowing it up in the first movie, instead of just damaging it or slowing it so it could be a menace for the next two movies, was a worse move(If you take ANH as a standalone, it is the perfect ending. It is kind of clumsy if you take the whole OT into account, though, when the second one shows up. Here we see this mistake repeated.)

Oh, and since we're doing the impossible already, it would have been awesome if they had Starkiller Base go lightspeed and then drop in out of hyperspace into the Republic system and then take out them out "close range"... and maybe have the weapon reflect/refract light into the separate beams. It would be really cool if they just showed up in enemy systems and stole their sun or leeched off all the planet's energy and electromagnetic forces and left them to rot... or something. Yeah. Edit: Ooo! Ooo! They could build a Starkiller Base on an inhabitated planet full of hostages.

Anyway, Death Star 3.0 was executed as well as one could, but the idea of having a third death star threat is, in my opinion, the weakest part of this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: soguru on December 22, 2015, 12:56:23 PM
That's pretty simple, because everyone is different, with different thresholds of what it takes to shake their suspension of disbelief.
Well Marty, as far as I'm concerned, Star Wars requires that you suspend it pretty far. If you can accept the idea of the force, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to accept anything else in The Force Awakens.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 22, 2015, 01:29:12 PM
I think having the Death Star 3.0 in the first place was a bad move and that blowing it up in the first movie, instead of just damaging it or slowing it so it could be a menace for the next two movies, was a worse move(If you take ANH as a standalone, it is the perfect ending. It is kind of clumsy if you take the whole OT into account, though, when the second one shows up. Here we see this mistake repeated.)

I agree with this. I don't mind the notion of the bigger Death Star, but if they had let it build up over a movie or two then it would have felt more like something different.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 01:31:59 PM
That's pretty simple, because everyone is different, with different thresholds of what it takes to shake their suspension of disbelief.
Well Marty, as far as I'm concerned, Star Wars requires that you suspend it pretty far. If you can accept the idea of the force, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to accept anything else in The Force Awakens.

I can't make that leap, the existence of the force doesn't render all physics obsolete, they still need ships and stuff, it's not an entire universe run on magic.  It it were a Harry Potter movie it would not have phased me one bit to have someone drain a star.

Anyway I've already gone past the star thing, next time I watch it I'm going with the idea RoninFox came up with to get past the draining a star idea.

Maybe it's explained better in the novel, if so I'll go with that.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 02:57:18 PM

 Thinking about the interrogation scene, it's kind of nice that shouldn't get spoiled by future revelations, her resistance to the mind probe is immediately recognized as the force, something they couldn't reveal when Vader interrogated Leia.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 08:46:39 PM
I think having the Death Star 3.0 in the first place was a bad move and that blowing it up in the first movie, instead of just damaging it or slowing it so it could be a menace for the next two movies, was a worse move(If you take ANH as a standalone, it is the perfect ending. It is kind of clumsy if you take the whole OT into account, though, when the second one shows up. Here we see this mistake repeated.)

I agree with this. I don't mind the notion of the bigger Death Star, but if they had let it build up over a movie or two then it would have felt more like something different.

Enough time had passed so it wasn't unexpected to have a new super weapon, evil dictatorships do seem to love their super weapons.

I just hope they are done with the death star idea and try something really different, bringing it back a 4th time would be hard to take seriously.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 22, 2015, 09:54:19 PM
I hope Finn doesn't turn out to be related to characters we already know. It's just makes this story of an entire galaxy feel that much smaller. Plus, he's a good character, I like him. I don't need him to be related to someone else I like to be interested in seeing his story.

As for Rey, why the hell are people actually speculating on who she's related to?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 22, 2015, 10:07:49 PM
I hope Finn doesn't turn out to be related to characters we already know. It's just makes this story of an entire galaxy feel that much smaller. Plus, he's a good character, I like him. I don't need him to be related to someone else I like to be interested in seeing his story.

As for Rey, why the hell are people actually speculating on who she's related to?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 22, 2015, 10:10:15 PM
I hope Finn doesn't turn out to be related to characters we already know. It's just makes this story of an entire galaxy feel that much smaller. Plus, he's a good character, I like him. I don't need him to be related to someone else I like to be interested in seeing his story.

As for Rey, why the hell are people actually speculating on who she's related to?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: JimJ on December 22, 2015, 10:13:04 PM
I hope Finn doesn't turn out to be related to characters we already know. It's just makes this story of an entire galaxy feel that much smaller. Plus, he's a good character, I like him. I don't need him to be related to someone else I like to be interested in seeing his story.

As for Rey, why the hell are people actually speculating on who she's related to?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The only thing against that is that it seems like it would be more satisfying from a story perspective if Ren and Rey were siblings instead of cousins, but I don't see how it would make sense that Han and Leia either don't recognize her or pretended not to.  I also think it'd be cool if she turned out to be Obi-Wan's daughter, since Ewan McGregor and Alec Guiness had a voice over cameo in the scene where she has the vision (Alec Guiness' part was actually a clip of him saying "Afraid" cut to sound like "Rey").  Then again, Frank Oz also recorded stuff for that scene, and I don't think she's Yoda's.  Also, the timeline doesn't really fit.

I do agree that Finn being related to anyone we know is a bad idea, especially since it would perpetuate the joke that are only a handful of black people in the galaxy.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: JimJ on December 23, 2015, 03:07:28 AM
https://twitter.com/KyloR3n
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 23, 2015, 05:40:01 AM
Soguru seems to have pulled an Uncle Des
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on December 23, 2015, 06:42:49 AM
i'm pretty sure rey is the granddaughter of amidala's decoy:

(http://i.imgur.com/COlShvh.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 23, 2015, 07:20:57 AM
i'm pretty sure rey is the granddaughter of amidala's decoy:

Somebody was doing some hanky-panky with the help.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on December 23, 2015, 03:37:11 PM
It's possible Rey could have simply "emerged from the desert." It gets a little ridiculous if ALL of the new characters are tied to the old generation in some shape or form.

As for Finn, I couldn't help wondering if Captain Phasma could be a mother or aunt...but then I changed my mind, for the reason I already cited above.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Nobody on December 23, 2015, 04:04:10 PM
Patton?

Patton was an irresponsible asshole with severe megalomania.
He killed Nazis.  That's my kind of asshole.

As for generals going into battle:  today they mostly don't.  In the past, they did.  In medieval times and earlier, Kings went into battle.

In the Star Wars universe, Han Solo and Lando Calrissian both had the title of general at the battle of Endor.  Both were very much in the thick of it.  For Leia to be more personally involved going forward does not seem inconsistent with the basic "rules" of the SW universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RobThom on December 24, 2015, 08:18:14 AM
I heard that they just ripped off everything from star wars and then swapped the races and genders around.

Although not diversely, but to specifically fit a particular worldview.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on December 24, 2015, 08:41:35 AM
I heard that they just ripped off everything from star wars and then swapped the races and genders around.

Although not diversely, but to specifically fit a particular worldview.
Not quite.  Sure there's similarities, but the character stories are hardly copypasted from what I've heard.  I find it odd that Star Wars has a bunch of alien variety, but not that much when it comes to people.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 24, 2015, 09:00:38 AM
I heard that they just ripped off everything from star wars and then swapped the races and genders around.

Although not diversely, but to specifically fit a particular worldview.

This attitude feels familiar somehow....
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 24, 2015, 09:04:37 AM
I heard that they just ripped off everything from star wars and then swapped the races and genders around.

Although not diversely, but to specifically fit a particular worldview.

This attitude feels familiar somehow....

Agreed.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 24, 2015, 09:06:50 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/iDFKH1S.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 24, 2015, 09:24:27 AM
You know, another reason I hope Rey is not Luke's daughter is because it would be a ripoff of Dune to have 2 cousins fighting at the end.   Please let her be simply someone with parents that were strong with the force that were at the camp with Luke to get trained.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 24, 2015, 09:28:41 AM
You know, another reason I hope Rey is not Luke's daughter is because it would be a ripoff of Dune to have 2 cousins fighting at the end.   Please let her be simply someone with parents that were strong with the force that were at the camp with Luke to get trained.

Well, JJ's last big sci-fi remake was literally Top Gun in Space. He's expert at ripping things off when tasked with making something new and interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 24, 2015, 09:32:46 AM
From what I've read her parentage hasn't been decided yet, that is being left up to the next writer, not JJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on December 24, 2015, 10:09:04 AM
Wasn't there plans for a Starfleet Academy movie even before JJ stepped in at some point?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 24, 2015, 10:37:42 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/iDFKH1S.jpg)

Very well done. Especially loved the Bob's Burgers reference!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Nobody on December 24, 2015, 11:11:59 AM
You know, another reason I hope Rey is not Luke's daughter is because it would be a ripoff of Dune to have 2 cousins fighting at the end.   Please let her be simply someone with parents that were strong with the force that were at the camp with Luke to get trained.

Well, JJ's last big sci-fi remake was literally Top Gun in Space.
Basically.  Not literally.  If it were "literally" Top Gun in space, it would have been titled "Top Gun In Space."

Also, I fail to see any resemblance between either Star Trek movie and Top Gun.  No flight training.  No accidental death of a friend.  No homoerotic volleyball.  I totally fail to see the connection, and I didn't like the first one much, but kind of enjoyed the second, so I don't think my love of the movies is clouding my remembrance of them.  I do suspect your hatred of Abrams' direction/writing may be clouding yours.  In my humble opinion, which I may have to apologize for giving at some point.
Quote
He's expert at ripping things off when tasked with making something new and interesting.

My opinions on the movie itself:

So, I saw the movie yesterday, and I enjoyed it.  There were callbacks to and resemblances of A New Hope, for sure, but I didn't find them contrived.  In fact, I would think hiding secret stuff in a droid would be common in the SW universe, so it isn't hard to believe Poe would try it.

Rae (aka Keira Knightly's prettier sister) was terrific as a hard working girl from the armpit of the galaxy who finds out she has the ability to stand shoulder to shoulder with legends.  I can't wait to find out more about her, and maybe see her transform into a hero in her own right.

Finn was a good character, but his speech was occasionally out of place in the SW universe.  His use of slang felt anachronistic.  Traditionally, SW has had its own slang and didn't use common vernacular.  I hope they bring him into the world of SW more so that he fits better, because the idea of a guy who fell in with the wrong group and then tries to redeem himself by assisting the good guys (and, of course, falls in love with the female lead) all kind of appeals to me on a story level.

Ren is a punk.  I guess all Sith are basically whiny little twits when they start out.  I hope he doesn't redeem himself in the end, but dies horribly, because...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 24, 2015, 11:23:17 AM
You know, another reason I hope Rey is not Luke's daughter is because it would be a ripoff of Dune to have 2 cousins fighting at the end.   
I kinda want them to be doing some thing slightly different at the end, has the same first and lats three letter however...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 24, 2015, 03:54:22 PM
An interesting discussion here:
http://www.chud.com/171177/the-force-awakens-spoilers-and-speculation/

I particularly liked the bit about the Disney checklist:
Quote
I imagine Disney’s major goals for Episode VII were as follows:
- Win back fans by reintroducing OT characters and aesthetic
- wash nerd mouths of prequel bitterness
- introduce new generation of characters
- send off old favorites
- make a good first Star Wars experience for new fans

It really succinctly shows how much Disney succeeded with this movie, even if some of us have a few issues with it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: eegah on December 24, 2015, 05:56:52 PM
BB8 = Wall-E ... discuss

Finally saw it. We thought the first half was great, but the second half was just ok. Certainly a bit too much recycled storyline, but they largely pulled it off. The comedic elements worked pretty well, too.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 24, 2015, 09:53:18 PM
BB8 = Wall-E ... discuss

Finally saw it. We thought the first half was great, but the second half was just ok. Certainly a bit too much recycled storyline, but they largely pulled it off. The comedic elements worked pretty well, too.

BB-8 certainly is a somewhat Disneyfied version of R2D2....  ;D
But I wouldn't go so far as to say it was Wall-E

I agree that even though there is a lot of recyling from both IV and V they did pull it off unexpectedly well.

I'm about half way through the Novel, so far only a few extra bits that are not in the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on December 25, 2015, 01:10:42 AM
I just got back from the movie and I loved the shit out of it. I was super worried about it after being so disappointed with the sequels but felt the final product was as good as it could have possibly been for me. I don't think I loved it as much as New Hope and Empire, but those movies were so formative for me that expecting that was not reasonable.

One part I was curious to hear your guys' thoughts on, was in the scene where Kylo Ren was interrogating/reading Ray's mind. Kylo mentioned seeing "the island" in Ray's thoughts in a way that suggested he was expecting to see said island. Do you guys think he was talking about the island Luke was in hiding on at the end? At the time I thought he was talking about a figurative island in her mind where she kept her secrets/answers on, kind of a weird take I know. When Luke was later shown on a literal Island I was thinking maybe she had been there before Jakku (maybe as Luke's daughter?). The more I've thought about Ray's origins I started leaning towards Ray not being Luke's daughter though. Maybe there was no mention of an Island and I just thought I heard that.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 25, 2015, 07:41:08 AM
Maybe there was no mention of an Island and I just thought I heard that.

He did mention an island when he was interrogating her.

I just finished the novel, so easy to go find those parts now:

In the novel he is telling her what he sees in her mind, about when she tried to go to sleep she imagines an ocean, and says he can see the island.  I can't remember if that's the exact line used in the movie, a lot is the same but there are also a lot of little differences.

So it seems she has been having visions of an island for a long time.

And going back to the people being able to watch the weapon destroy a system, it was better in the novel.  The system destroyed was not the same as where Han was, they did destroy the system that was the seat of the republic, where the senate was.

In the book there are no streaks of light, the dark energy from the weapon travels even faster than hyperspace, and causes the planet to explode like a nova, taking out everything around it.  In the system where Han and the gang are they just see a bright star in the sky, and Han uses sensors on the Falcon to determine what was going on.  I guess with the new type of hyperspace the weapon uses you could maybe explain how they could see the light from the explosion light years away, but they really shouldn't be able to see it in real time.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on December 25, 2015, 11:34:29 AM
Maybe there was no mention of an Island and I just thought I heard that.

He did mention an island when he was interrogating her.

I just finished the novel, so easy to go find those parts now:

In the novel he is telling her what he sees in her mind, about when she tried to go to sleep she imagines an ocean, and says he can see the island.  I can't remember if that's the exact line used in the movie, a lot is the same but there are also a lot of little differences.

So it seems she has been having visions of an island for a long time.

And going back to the people being able to watch the weapon destroy a system, it was better in the novel.  The system destroyed was not the same as where Han was, they did destroy the system that was the seat of the republic, where the senate was.

In the book there are no streaks of light, the dark energy from the weapon travels even faster than hyperspace, and causes the planet to explode like a nova, taking out everything around it.  In the system where Han and the gang are they just see a bright star in the sky, and Han uses sensors on the Falcon to determine what was going on.  I guess with the new type of hyperspace the weapon uses you could maybe explain how they could see the light from the explosion light years away, but they really shouldn't be able to see it in real time.

Is the novel EU or is it a cannon novelization of the film based on the script? This aspect of the Star Wars franchise drives me bonkers because there is so many different cannons.

Edit: Did they have any additional explanation of how Luke's blue saber was found in the novel? I wanted to yell at the screen when that character said another story for another day. Shouldn't that light sabre be floating in the center of Bespin with Luke's hand? Bespin is a gas giant in the middle of nowhere. They sort of implied Light Sabres are magical and sentient now when the original films portrayed them as inanimate.   
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 25, 2015, 07:47:12 PM
Going to go out on a limb and assume that, whatever her name is (assuming that is revealed), when we finally see Rey's mum in flashback she will be clearly reminiscent of...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 25, 2015, 07:54:04 PM
If I see Emma Stone has been cast in one of the next movies...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 25, 2015, 08:05:57 PM
Is the novel EU or is it a cannon novelization of the film based on the script? This aspect of the Star Wars franchise drives me bonkers because there is so many different cannons.

I'm pretty sure it's cannon, at least I've seen it mentioned that way a few places.  It was obviously based on the script.  It doesn't fill in much, how Poe gets back to the resistance is a great little story, I hope it was filmed and will show up on the Blu-Ray, it would probably be 5 to 10 minutes of screen time.  There's also some of what is going on in Rey's mind after the interrogation scene when she gets the idea to ask the trooper to free her.  And of course the weapon stuff.  I kind of wish there was more of what was going through Han's mind when he confronts Ben, there's a little but not much.

Even though it doesn't add much new info to the movie I'd still recommend reading it.

My dad wanted to go to a movie so I've now seen it twice.  He enjoyed it and he's not a science fiction fan.

I actually liked it better the second time, that's a first for a JJ film.  Reading the novel may have had something to do with it though, we'll see how many times I watch it when it comes out on Blu-Ray.

Quote
Edit: Did they have any additional explanation of how Luke's blue saber was found in the novel? I wanted to yell at the screen when that character said another story for another day. Shouldn't that light sabre be floating in the center of Bespin with Luke's hand? Bespin is a gas giant in the middle of nowhere. They sort of implied Light Sabres are magical and sentient now when the original films portrayed them as inanimate.

Nope, nothing to help out there.

Maybe it got stuck on a vent, vents are very important in the Star Wars universe...  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 26, 2015, 07:50:09 AM
If I see Emma Stone has been cast in one of the next movies...

...sploosh?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 26, 2015, 08:03:01 AM
I'll assume my prediction is right.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 26, 2015, 08:08:18 AM
how Poe gets back to the resistance is a great little story, I hope it was filmed and will show up on the Blu-Ray, it would probably be 5 to 10 minutes of screen time. 

I'd like to see that, Poe was a good character and I would have liked to have seen more from him.

Does it explain what FN stands for, the origin of Finn's name?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 26, 2015, 08:29:08 AM
how Poe gets back to the resistance is a great little story, I hope it was filmed and will show up on the Blu-Ray, it would probably be 5 to 10 minutes of screen time. 

I'd like to see that, Poe was a good character and I would have liked to have seen more from him.

Does it explain what FN stands for, the origin of Finn's name?

I'd assume it's just a serial number, and JJ wanted him named Finn, so he gave him that designation.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 26, 2015, 09:45:32 AM
Well, yes, but star wars is generally good at explaining things in universe; there will be an in universe explanation eventually, I wondered if it showed up in the novel.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 26, 2015, 08:14:21 PM
There was no explanation of the FN in the serial number, but while in the movie they just causally talk about him not having any previous episodes, in the book they were much more concerned that someone that had passed all previous physiological tests could turn like that.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 26, 2015, 09:41:54 PM
Decided today to wait for the blu-ray to see this.  Well, to wait for the blu-ray to see if I want to see it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on December 27, 2015, 09:34:10 AM
Just a fan's guess, but they could be setting Kylo Ren up to become "Darth Vader the Second." Considering his hero worship of Vader, and the scar Rey left on his face during their last fight (George Lucas: "It's like poetry, it rhymes,") things might be nudging in that general direction. Kylo's next battle with Rey or Finn could leave his body similarly destroyed like Anakin Skywalker's in REVENGE OF THE SITH, allowing Snoke (at Kylo's insistence) to encase his remains inside a brand-spanking-new Vader suit, becoming the irredeemable Sith lord the original Vader "should have been."

Boom: We've got Vader back for episode IX, albeit a more diabolical incarnation that lacks the trace fragments of Anakin's humanity.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 27, 2015, 10:13:03 AM
I've seen theories that Snoke is actually Darth Plaguies, because Kylo Ren refers to him as wise a few times, and the music during Snoke's scenes is reminiscent of the Opera from EP III, where Palpatine is telling Anakin about the wisest Sith Lord who had conquered death. Supposedly he survived the death blow from Palpatine and went into hiding, influencing the Entire plot and history of the films.

Or maybe he's Jar Jar. Don't know.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on December 27, 2015, 03:29:16 PM
I've seen theories that Snoke is actually Darth Plaguies, because Kylo Ren refers to him as wise a few times, and the music during Snoke's scenes is reminiscent of the Opera from EP III, where Palpatine is telling Anakin about the wisest Sith Lord who had conquered death. Supposedly he survived the death blow from Palpatine and went into hiding, influencing the Entire plot and history of the films.

Or maybe he's Jar Jar. Don't know.

I strongly doubt there will be any more than the minimum tie ins to the prequels, a good decision IMO. I could be wrong though and midichlorians, trade disputes, and virgin births may rear their ugly heads in episode 8.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MSTJedi on December 27, 2015, 05:23:55 PM
I've seen theories that Snoke is actually Darth Plaguies, because Kylo Ren refers to him as wise a few times, and the music during Snoke's scenes is reminiscent of the Opera from EP III, where Palpatine is telling Anakin about the wisest Sith Lord who had conquered death. Supposedly he survived the death blow from Palpatine and went into hiding, influencing the Entire plot and history of the films.

Or maybe he's Jar Jar. Don't know.

I strongly doubt there will be any more than the minimum tie ins to the prequels, a good decision IMO. I could be wrong though and midichlorians, trade disputes, and virgin births may rear their ugly heads in episode 8.

For the Force's sake, I hope not. I'd point out that Plagueis was a different kind of alien, but since that book was part of the abolished EU, that's no longer an issue. The only canon info we have is what Palpatine told Anakin. And even if Abrams went with that version of Plagueis, that hologram could have anyone behind it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on December 27, 2015, 07:17:20 PM
For the Force's sake, I hope not. I'd point out that Plagueis was a different kind of alien, but since that book was part of the abolished EU, that's no longer an issue. The only canon info we have is what Palpatine told Anakin. And even if Abrams went with that version of Plagueis, that hologram could have anyone behind it.

I'm placing my bets on Daniel Day-Lewis.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on December 27, 2015, 11:48:33 PM
Another interesting thing about Snoke is that Andy Serkis claimed in an interview that mocap and CGI were the only way to capture the character. Snoke was clearly humanoid and his look could have easily been achieved with makeup and costume. I suspect when Snoke is reveled outside of a hologram he will be very small or very large. I think he will be very Golem like in size and animation.

I'm probably going to see the movie a second time and I have a long list of things to pay extra close attention to the second time around. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 27, 2015, 11:59:04 PM
I've seen theories that Snoke is actually Darth Plaguies, because Kylo Ren refers to him as wise a few times, and the music during Snoke's scenes is reminiscent of the Opera from EP III, where Palpatine is telling Anakin about the wisest Sith Lord who had conquered death. Supposedly he survived the death blow from Palpatine and went into hiding, influencing the Entire plot and history of the films.

Or maybe he's Jar Jar. Don't know.

I strongly doubt there will be any more than the minimum tie ins to the prequels, a good decision IMO. I could be wrong though and midichlorians, trade disputes, and virgin births may rear their ugly heads in episode 8.

For the Force's sake, I hope not. I'd point out that Plagueis was a different kind of alien, but since that book was part of the abolished EU, that's no longer an issue. The only canon info we have is what Palpatine told Anakin. And even if Abrams went with that version of Plagueis, that hologram could have anyone behind it.
That part was in the prequel widely considered to be as good or better than one of the Original movies. It has no mention of virgin births OR midichlorians. There was a lot of music from the original movies that was borrowed from, and as the prequels are established canon, it makes sense to borrow from them, too.

The prequels have such a bad reputation with fans that I think it's almost an automatic dismissal without looking at the actual content. Episode III is a GOOD movie,and is a great Star Wars movie. Many people like it more than Jedi, but I like it more than A New Hope. As the young un on the forum, I feel I must speak positively about those films. They weren't my introduction to Star Wars, either. But I enjoy the prequels, except for the pandering that happened in Episode II. The story they  tell is complex and interesting, which I like. The originals are so basic.

I also believe Snoke is 7-8 feet tall, and Abrams and Serkis have confirmed he's older than the empire. It would make sense for him to try and continue his work if he were Plaguies.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on December 28, 2015, 12:48:32 AM
(https://scontent.fper2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/5661_10153514324098725_6351718071294570727_n.jpg?oh=2e5d481ed530b10aae83fb3956c7312f&oe=57060DE4)

The outrage over this is making me laugh, why it'd be like selling action figures before they were made or something!  :P
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 28, 2015, 09:20:29 AM
 Maybe explain the outrage for those of us that don't go to other boards?
 Is it over the idea of pre-orders or because it's the only way to get the 3 posters?

 Only time I ever pre-order is for physical media that I want delivered the day it's released.
 Digital pre-orders make no sense to me unless they come with some kind of guarantee that it's going to be the lowest price.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 28, 2015, 09:23:41 AM
Decided today to wait for the blu-ray to see this.  Well, to wait for the blu-ray to see if I want to see it.

I'm really glad I didn't wait, there are plenty of scenes that should be seen on the biggest screen you can find.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 28, 2015, 10:16:42 AM
Darn, the guy that plays General Hux looks so much like French Stewart that I thought it was him, so riffs about a message from the big giant head just don't work.  :(

And The Room has ruined all uses of anything being torn apart, the obvious riff during Han's death would be "o'hai light saber".  :rimshot:

Too soon?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 28, 2015, 11:19:09 AM
I like that the Trooper who yelled "TRAITOR" at Finn has a fan following. The fans have designated him TR-8R and he's gotten a lot of memes.

Case in point
(http://i.imgur.com/rhYGCcL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZEMG32T.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hzyiLzh.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 28, 2015, 01:31:01 PM
(http://2new3.fjcdn.com/pictures/No_a38e3a_5780423.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 28, 2015, 01:34:06 PM
More specific to the movie:

(http://i.imgur.com/YKYf5Rr.jpg)

This seems like a writing error, or possibly the result of scheduling problems.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 28, 2015, 02:32:13 PM
Do we know for sure yet what happened to Phasma? I can't tell if there is a big deleted scene when they are trying to put her in the trash compacter, or if they were clumsy in how they built her up.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 28, 2015, 03:59:34 PM
Well, Phasma is supposed to be Boba Fett. She looks cool and seems like a badass, but ultimately does absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 28, 2015, 04:13:23 PM
Well, Phasma is supposed to be Boba Fett. She looks cool and seems like a badass, but ultimately does absolutely nothing.
Good comparison.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on December 28, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
I would like to see Phasma get court-martialed/sentenced to death for lowering the shields and then have her break away from the First Order, either to ultimately form a mercenary corp. with some loyal underlings or join the Rebels.. err... Resistance.

I would also like VIII to feature a Hoth like battle with the tables turned for the First Order. I don't know how much they have left in the old Imperial coffer, but it would be interesting to see it run dry.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on December 29, 2015, 04:23:41 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/mw7WsZK.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 29, 2015, 06:40:33 AM
To be fair, this is a guy who parachuted into a war zone, expecting a nice, easy capture mission, and somehow came prepared with the one weapon that can stop a lightsaber...which is a weapon no one has probably seen outside of Kylo Ren in years.

Heck, Kylo Ren may be the ONLY person who has had a visible lightsaber to most Stormtroopers.  Did they have that on hand in case they needed to deal with him going nuts?  A Batman-esque continency plan to deal with their own?

I also somehow believe someone is going to make a martial arts kata using that weapon sometime in the near future.  It's too much pressure on the Star Wars nerd community not to.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on December 29, 2015, 06:50:00 AM
It may have been in case they actual do encounter a jedi, or at least something within melee range.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on December 29, 2015, 07:25:26 AM
I'm just pointing out that this one Stormtrooper is thinking to himself, "Wow!  Here's the traitor, and I've got my electric tonfa handy!  Boy, this is my lucky day!" ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on December 29, 2015, 07:46:38 AM
Sorry, this is all over the place.

I'm disappointed I went to a late screening because I wanted to watch it again as soon as it finished, I was looking forward to Rouge One more than this but now Rogue One feels like a speed bump

I almost literally cried the whole time and covered my mouth to sniffle squeals and gasps when I wasn't pointing at the screen and nudging my friends "Gonk Droid!", "Nien Nunb", etc, etc the only reaction I said out loud was "oh fuck, no" when it became clear what Ben/Kylo 'needed' to do ...but the guy next to me said "god, please don't!" even louder at the same time oh and "YES!" when the saber shot past Kylo into Rey's hand.

My only misgivings are hoping Ray is no relation AT ALL to the Skywalkers and Snoke isn't actually that big (or comically large). 

I do wonder why R2 suddenly woke  up then, did someone tell him Han had died? I was ecstatic we got to see Luke, I was half expecting it to end with the Falcon flying away in an Empire like moment but I was SO, SO happy we got to see Luke.

Was Max Von Syndow supposed to be General Madine? who's Lor San Tekka?

Final thing: From the Star Wars Minute I think they were going to have a sub-story in Jedi with Piett vying for Palpatine's favor and trying to undermine Darth, I wonder if they borrowed that for Hux and Kylo?

Spotted Judah Friedlander as the last bar patron in the establishing scene too!


Oh! and playing the Leia/Han love theme during the Rey/Leia hug broke me into tiny pieces  :'(
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on December 29, 2015, 08:37:21 AM
I'm just pointing out that this one Stormtrooper is thinking to himself, "Wow!  Here's the traitor, and I've got my electric tonfa handy!  Boy, this is my lucky day!" ;)

Vibro-axe I think?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on December 29, 2015, 09:20:25 AM
I was looking forward to Rouge One

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/98/RedDwarfShipOriginal.jpg/250px-RedDwarfShipOriginal.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 29, 2015, 06:50:22 PM
Heck, Kylo Ren may be the ONLY person who has had a visible lightsaber to most Stormtroopers.  Did they have that on hand in case they needed to deal with him going nuts?  A Batman-esque continency plan to deal with their own?

The more I think about it, the more this seems a good explanation, at the very least as a retcon; it would be appropriate given how Ren is powerful but hardly even approaching stable.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 29, 2015, 06:59:02 PM
Thought I read somewhere that that weird weapon was some kind of crowd control thing, I guess when it comes out on disc we can freeze frame to see if any other troopers have them.

I also read that in an an interview JJ said that there are 10 to 20 minutes of deleted scenes, I really hope one of them is Poe's adventure after the crash, that was a fun part of the novel.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on December 29, 2015, 07:34:39 PM
Heck, Kylo Ren may be the ONLY person who has had a visible lightsaber to most Stormtroopers.  Did they have that on hand in case they needed to deal with him going nuts?  A Batman-esque continency plan to deal with their own?

The more I think about it, the more this seems a good explanation, at the very least as a retcon; it would be appropriate given how Ren is powerful but hardly even approaching stable.
I think it's more likely that they just used lightsaber-type technology in a different way. Giving ground troops swords that can only kill or maim doesn't make sense, they have blasters if they want to hurt people. Like MartyS said, it's probably for crowd control.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 29, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
I would guess that the deleted scenes are only scenes from the book.  I think the book is written from the script, and I don't think they are allowed to deviate from it much or add their own scenes.  Here are the major scenes missing from the movie, but that are in the book:
Quote from: wookieepedia
The novel opens with a scene of Leia thinking about the events of the past and about having sent an exceptional Resistance pilot (Poe Dameron) to try and find her brother. This is followed by the opening scene of the Movie (the First Order forces on approach to Jakku).
FN-2187's failure to shoot the villagers is initially thought by one of his fellow troopers to be due to a "blaster jam," explaining why Captain Phasma orders him to turn in his weapon to be checked by technicians.
Leia is seen sending her personal envoy, Korr Sella, to persuade the Senate of the New Republic to act against the First Order, revealing that the Resistance is not a formal part of the New Republic armed forces. Sella is later noted to be one of the victims of the first firing of the Starkiller Base superweapon.
There is an additional scene that depicts Poe Dameron's encounter with a scavenger on Jakku and his escape from the planet following the crash of the stolen TIE fighter.
There is an additional scene at Maz Kanata's castle, just after Finn's decision to try and flee the conflict. Unkar Plutt and some of his henchmen arrive and attempt to abduct Rey and BB-8. Rey tries to shoot him with the blaster given to her by Han, but she has not taken the safety off, and is quickly disarmed by Plutt. This is may explain why in the movie she is shown taking the safety off before attacking a group of stormtroopers. Rey is rescued by the intervention of Chewbacca, whom Plutt unwisely aggravates by poking at his wounded shoulder. Chewbacca responds by ripping off Plutt's arm.

Also, here is some more information about Snoke from the novel:
Quote from: wookieepedia
Snoke was active during the Clone Wars and had several apprentices before he became invested in the Skywalker bloodline, believing General Leia Organa and Han Solo's son Ben, the grandson of Darth Vader, had the right balance of the dark and light sides of the Force in him.[3]

Leia was aware of the influence Snoke could have on her son, but did not inform Han, believing he would not understand and that as a Force-sensitive, it was her responsibility to keep Ben away from the dark side.[3] Eventually, Snoke turned Ben to the dark side, anointing him Kylo, master of the Knights of Ren, and ordered him to destroy Luke Skywalker's revived Jedi Order.[1]
Shortly before the Battle of Starkiller Base, Snoke summoned Kylo Ren to discuss an awakening in the Force, and he ordered Ren to kill his father to overcome his temptation by the light. He demanded that the prisoner Rey be brought before him when Kylo Ren proved unable to read her mind. When the destruction of Starkiller Base by the Resistance pilots was inevitable, Snoke ordered General Hux to bring Ren to him in order to complete his training.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on December 29, 2015, 10:28:58 PM
OK Finally saw this here in Iguala Mexico and of course the entire audio is Spanish but I still got the gist of it..
All I have to say is ... HAN NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! :speechless:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on December 30, 2015, 06:45:33 AM
All I have to say is ... HAN NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! :speechless:

What are you talking about? In the English version Kylo Ren clearly explains how he is performing an emergency appendectomy on Han just before letting him go bungee jumping.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on December 30, 2015, 08:43:56 AM
All I have to say is ... HAN NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! :speechless:

What are you talking about? In the English version Kylo Ren clearly explains how he is performing an emergency appendectomy on Han just before letting him go bungee jumping.

yeah, but then chewie got all angry that he couldn't go bungee jumping, so he blew the place up.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 30, 2015, 09:06:07 AM
All I have to say is ... HAN NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! :speechless:

What are you talking about? In the English version Kylo Ren clearly explains how he is performing an emergency appendectomy on Han just before letting him go bungee jumping.

yeah, but then chewie got all angry that he couldn't go bungee jumping, so he blew the place up.

Rey and Finn were only upset because they had been planning on performing the surgery themselves, in an attempt  to boost their surgical careers by operating on a high profile patient. Ren didn't approve of them using his father in such a way, which is why he performed the surgery himself.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on December 30, 2015, 09:45:35 AM
I wish electric tonfa stormtrooper would have held onto his shield.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 30, 2015, 12:19:47 PM
Abrams has admitted in interviews now that he had to kill han to make his shitty villain menacing.

He's like a kid who comes over and breaks your shit and says "it just makes your other things more special." 

Ruin your own fucking toys, asshole.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 30, 2015, 12:29:58 PM
I thought the scene worked and was played well and it was what Ford has wanted since about 1979.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on December 30, 2015, 12:46:09 PM
Imrahil has admitted in interviews that he has not watched the movie yet and has been hate reading spoilers for months.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 30, 2015, 12:56:13 PM
I thought the scene worked and was played well and it was what Ford has wanted since about 1979.


Yeah, it did work well due to Ford's acting.  Unless ADF took some serious liberties in the novel it doesn't seem like the intent was to make Ren more menacing, it was to cement his turn to the dark side, and it remains to be seen what will come of it, he was even more conflicted after doing it, that's why Chewie was able to get his shot in.

If Ford didn't want to be in any more movies it was a good way for him to go out, it might have been nice to see Han and Leia try to work together to get back their son, but with that not being possible Han taking a last gamble to try and bring Ben back was a pretty noble way to go.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 30, 2015, 01:05:37 PM
Imrahil has admitted in interviews that he has not watched the movie yet and has been hate reading spoilers for months.  ;)

I can empathize with that, it's what I did with the Star Trek reboot.  Well, not hate reading, but looking at spoilers after seeing the trailers, then waiting for reviews, then watching reviews that use lots of clips.  It was first the trailers and then the clips along with the major plot points that convinced me I would never want to watch it.  With this movie the trailers made me more interested so I continued to avoided spoilers.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on December 30, 2015, 02:19:38 PM
All I have to say is ... HAN NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! :speechless:

What are you talking about? In the English version Kylo Ren clearly explains how he is performing an emergency appendectomy on Han just before letting him go bungee jumping.

yeah, but then chewie got all angry that he couldn't go bungee jumping, so he blew the place up.

Rey and Finn were only upset because they had been planning on performing the surgery themselves, in an attempt  to boost their surgical careers by operating on a high profile patient. Ren didn't approve of them using his father in such a way, which is why he performed the surgery himself.
Ah well then.. Carry on smartly then ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 30, 2015, 05:47:40 PM
I thought the scene worked and was played well and it was what Ford has wanted since about 1979.
Unless ADF took some serious liberties in the novel it doesn't seem like the intent was to make Ren more menacing, it was to cement his turn to the dark side, and it remains to be seen what will come of it, he was even more conflicted after doing it, that's why Chewie was able to get his shot in.


Quote
We knew we needed to do something fucking bold. The only reason why Kylo Ren has any hope of being a worthy successor is because we lose one of the most beloved characters
From here:  http://www.cinemablend.com/new/J-J-Abrams-Says-Why-Star-Wars-Shocking-Death-Had-Happen-101597.html

I mean he says it right there; Han died to make Kylo Ren "cool."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 30, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
I thought the scene worked and was played well and it was what Ford has wanted since about 1979.
Unless ADF took some serious liberties in the novel it doesn't seem like the intent was to make Ren more menacing, it was to cement his turn to the dark side, and it remains to be seen what will come of it, he was even more conflicted after doing it, that's why Chewie was able to get his shot in.


Quote
We knew we needed to do something fucking bold. The only reason why Kylo Ren has any hope of being a worthy successor is because we lose one of the most beloved characters
From here:  http://www.cinemablend.com/new/J-J-Abrams-Says-Why-Star-Wars-Shocking-Death-Had-Happen-101597.html

I mean he says it right there; Han died to make Kylo Ren "cool."

I mean, they're right, it was the only chance he had. It didn't work and was a waste of a good character in the process, but he had to do something like that, because Abrams can't make his own story. That's why Episode 7 is nearly a shot for shot remake of A New Hope.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 30, 2015, 05:59:58 PM
Imrahil, Lawful, you are both just wrong. I could say why but I don't have time to write an essay right now.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 30, 2015, 07:13:31 PM
Imrahil, Lawful, you are both just wrong. I could say why but I don't have time to write an essay right now.

It's ok, we disagree so much on this movie, I dont know that you could change my opinion.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 30, 2015, 07:24:43 PM
It's ok, we disagree so much on this movie, I dont know that you could change my opinion.
Kylo Ren... He's a hell of an interrogator. He also gets shit done. Also... did you think about why he'd rather take out his anger on a control panel instead of on his own soldiers? What I'm trying to say is there's more to him than you or Imrahil give him credit for. You both have always struck me as being so cynical. I also I don't know if either of you want to look beyond the surface of someone's character and examining their deeper motivations.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 30, 2015, 07:26:16 PM
I'm cynical about the decisions expressed by the director (and partial writer)  related to the crafting of the story.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 30, 2015, 07:27:21 PM
I'm cynical about the decisions expressed by the director (and partial writer)  related to the crafting of the story.
I think you'll see whatever you want to see whenever it suits your taste.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on December 30, 2015, 08:24:49 PM
It's like Isaac with Peter Jackson  ::)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 30, 2015, 08:31:57 PM
It's like Isaac with Peter Jackson  ::)
I was going to say Oscar Isaac? Then I realized you probably meant former forum member Isaac....
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 30, 2015, 08:40:05 PM
I'm cynical about the decisions expressed by the director (and partial writer)  related to the crafting of the story.
I think you'll see whatever you want to see whenever it suits your taste.

I'll turn that right back around on you.  You liked the movie because it relied (overmuch) on attempting to evoke emotion rather than logic or storytelling.  Your taste, in other words.

Welcome back, by the way.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 30, 2015, 08:42:54 PM
I'll turn that right back around on you.  You liked the movie because it relied (overmuch) on attempting to evoke emotion rather than logic or storytelling.  Your taste, in other words.
No, I liked it because it told a good story, and had great characters.

You know what Imrahil? I try very hard to like you, but sometimes you make that very damn difficult for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 30, 2015, 09:16:11 PM
I completely disagree on your assessment of Ren's character. Yelling and throwing temper tantrums doesn't make you an interesting character. If that was a good character, Anakin would be one. His interrogation is literally because he has a power that allows him to rifle through someone's thoughts. Pretty sure ANYONE would be pretty solid at it if they had that ability.

And don't you tell me that I don't look past the surface on characters or anything in the Star Wars franchise. I'm one of those people that can look past the negatives of the prequels, something that I don't think many of the patrons of this forum can do. I know tons of people hate Sucker Punch and write it off as a fan service film, but there's a LOT of depth and interesting characterization in it.

Cynical, I'll accept. I expect the worst and I hope for the best. That's it. But I don't write off characters based on their surface motivations. I'd say I'm better than most people at finding nuance in characters. But Kylo Ren is a shit character and the only reason he has ANY umph is that he killed Han.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 30, 2015, 10:52:03 PM
I'll turn that right back around on you.  You liked the movie because it relied (overmuch) on attempting to evoke emotion rather than logic or storytelling.  Your taste, in other words.
No, I liked it because it told a good story, and had great characters.

You know what Imrahil? I try very hard to like you, but sometimes you make that very damn difficult for me.

So it isn't fair to peg you for liking a movie based on your admitted predilections and preferences--maybe even prejudices--even though you did the same to me right beforehand?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 30, 2015, 11:22:41 PM
So it isn't fair to peg you for liking a movie based on your admitted predilections and preferences--maybe even prejudices--even though you did the same to me right beforehand?
Imrahil, in my experience you tend to be very negative. In my opinion, you just don't know when to quit with the negativity. I honestly can't remember the last time you said "oh that was an AMAZING, awesome movie!". You tend to come across in my view as very aggressive in your stances and opinions on things. So, I'm sorry for what I said, but it's very hard to talk to you in a way where I can explain how I feel the way I do. My problem is I don't know how to explain in a way that will make you understand.

Oh, and by the way....
So it isn't fair to peg you for liking a movie based on your admitted predilections and preferences--maybe even prejudices--even though you did the same to me right beforehand?
I have had to think about the Force Awakens for the past 2 weeks because I really didn't know if I was being Phantom menaced again or what not... I'm still thinking hard about it, because critical thinking is really becoming too much of an overwhelming activity for me these days
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 30, 2015, 11:34:48 PM
So it isn't fair to peg you for liking a movie based on your admitted predilections and preferences--maybe even prejudices--even though you did the same to me right beforehand?
Imrahil, in my experience you tend to be very negative. I honestly can't remember the last time you said "Oh, that was really damn good". In my opinion, you just don't know when to quit with the negativity. You tend to come across in my view as very aggressive in your stances and opinions on things. So, I'm sorry for what I said, but it's very hard to talk to you in a way where I can explain how I feel the way I do. My problem is I don't know how to explain in a way that will make you understand.

Can't make anyone understand anything. All you can do is present them with the information and they respond to it how they will. Kind of how opinions work.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 30, 2015, 11:49:03 PM
I completely disagree on your assessment of Ren's character. Yelling and throwing temper tantrums doesn't make you an interesting character. If that was a good character, Anakin would be one. His interrogation is literally because he has a power that allows him to rifle through someone's thoughts. Pretty sure ANYONE would be pretty solid at it if they had that ability.

And don't you tell me that I don't look past the surface on characters or anything in the Star Wars franchise. I'm one of those people that can look past the negatives of the prequels, something that I don't think many of the patrons of this forum can do. I know tons of people hate Sucker Punch and write it off as a fan service film, but there's a LOT of depth and interesting characterization in it.

Cynical, I'll accept. I expect the worst and I hope for the best. That's it. But I don't write off characters based on their surface motivations. I'd say I'm better than most people at finding nuance in characters. But Kylo Ren is a shit character and the only reason he has ANY umph is that he killed Han.
Here's the thing about Anakin... I'm not sure between the prequels there's really any way of understanding him at all. He comes off as very shallow with the way he ogles Padme. He just doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a character at all. Anakin... just really doesn't do much of anything. He falls thousands of feet, lands on a car without so much as a bruise, then is unable to leap over Obi-Wan high enough to keep all his arms and legs from being chopped off... do you see what I'm saying here?! I can't even recall one scene in the prequels where Anakin used the force in a way that was memorable. He didn't even really have any character moments because in my view, Anakin's turn to the dark side actually happened BEFORE episode 2. I mean what else explains a lot of his behaviors in that movie?

See, unlike Anakin, Kylo Ren... Ben, has this inner turmoil, this inner conflict. Anakin? He's not the least bit conflicted about straight up murdering sand people, women and children in episode 2(This was supposedly before he turned to the dark side, or not?). And again, Anakin had no reservations about murdering children... AGAIN! The difference was that in both instances, Anakin wasn't conflicted in the least, but Kylo Ren is showing signs that he's actually got an inner struggle going on. He's also the only character I've ever seen who's frozen a laser blast mid-air. Kylo Ren has got the reflexes. He acknowledges his weaknesses... yes, in private, but he's interesting. I got to wonder, what the hell did Snoke do to him that made him so callous?

My point is even a battle-hardened warrior would be hard pressed to carry on with an injury like he got. I give Kylo Ren credit just to be able to stand up after taking a crossbow blast to the side. Did you see what one of those crossbow blasts did earlier in the movie?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 31, 2015, 12:21:32 AM
Anakin has a TON of inner conflict, what the hell are you on about? After he leaves Tatooine after having been a slave his entire life, leaving his mother behind, who, by the way, is the only person who ever saw value in him as a person, he has to deal with that fact. He wants to be this amazing hero, go and rescue her, to save all the slaves, to be strong and proud. But the Jedi teachings go COMPLETELY against that. It's not proper to want those things, to imagine the way things SHOULD be, you must focus on attaining balance without looking forward. He gets there, finds his mother has been kidnapped. He does the immediate thing to go and look for her. He doesn't intend to kill them until she dies, at which point this woman, the only person who never thought of what they could get out of him, is gone. He's furious. Blind rage, completely indiscriminate. He gets back and tells Padme what he's done. During that scene, he's crying, and yelling about how they're animals, and he slaughtered them, but he's clearly disgusted with himself. What he's done has gone against everything the Jedi stand for. Hell, it goes against what his MOTHER would've wanted him to do. But they killed her, so they deserved it? He's unsure, and he's scared that he has the potential for violence in him.

Speaking of Padme. This is the second person who's not looked at him in a way that makes him feel like a tool. Not to mention that he's a honry 14 year old. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 14 year old that didn't fantasize about a 19 year old girl who essentially saved him from a life of slavery and abuse. At the same time, he knows that he really shouldn't be doing this and wanting her in these ways, because once again he's forbidden by the nature of the Jedi. He's in love with a girl that he isn't allowed to have because he's a Jedi, but being a Jedi and having the strength and power of one, being a hero, he wants that too.

Anakin is a character that is actually a lot more deep than people give him credit for. You talk about how he had no reservations killing children in the Jedi Temple, but AGAIN, he's crying in that scene. He's still disgusted with himself, he hates himself more than anyone, but he doesn't care, he's doing these things for the people he loves. Indeed, this act is VERY similar to his murder of the Sand people, he's still motivated by the death of a loved one, though this time it's a future death he wants to prevent.

Kylo Ren, on the other hand, acts like a whiny child. He didn't get what he wanted from Luke, he sees how strong his grandfather was, and he's like "Aw shit yeah that's tite." There's no depth. None. His temper tantrums are just those. A whiny child mad that he didn't get what he wanted. You can argue all you want that he didn't want to kill Han, and that he's conflicted about it, but I firmly disagree. NO ONE thought Han would step onto that bridge and walk away. There was no tension in that scene. It was literally there to kill off an established character to give the big bad a boost in status. Not to mention it was an update of the Obi-Wan death scene. The difference is that Vader didn't have to kill Obi-Wan to be menacing and terrifying, whereas Ren had to kill Han to attempt to invoke the same effect, and it failed. Vader was cool, calm, and collected. Yeah, he killed all his middle management when they made him mad. But that's what made him interesting. They're trying to jam the character development of Anakin and Darth Vader into one dude in the same movie, and it just doesn't work.

Maybe Ren will be better in Episode VIII. But honestly, I doubt it. Say what you will about Christensen, but he puts more work into his character than Driver did into his. It may be unfair to compare Christensen's character to Driver's, since Anakin had 2 movies, and Ren only had 1, but even if you look at Attack of the Clones, I don't see a contest. Anakin is conflicted. Ren is an emo punk who's whole mantra is "THE ONLY ONE WHO MIGHT UNDERSTAND MY PAIN IS DEAD". He's a wannabe and needs a shower. Greasy haired git.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 12:25:11 AM
I'm sorry Lawful I just can't bring myself to agree with you... on anything you said, especially re: the prequels. When I see Anakin, I just don't see a lot of what you're seeing, seriously, I just don't. I admit, maybe that's a failure on my part, however, it's just a compromise I am not willing to even consider. To be honest, I'm just tired and I am sick of arguing.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 31, 2015, 12:29:00 AM
I'm sorry Lawful I just can't bring myself to agree with you... on anything you said, especially re: the prequels. When I see Anakin, I just don't see a lot of what you're seeing, seriously, I just don't. I admit, maybe that's a failure on my part, however, it's just a compromise I am not willing to even consider.

That's fine. But there's literally no way you can accuse me of not looking for depth in characters. I don't even LIKE Episode II. But I can find the positive notes in it. I can see where Hayden is dropping the ham, and what was actually intended.

On a side note, I went into TFA wanting to like Ren, especially when I read and saw the plot. I really, really didn't, and I think the blame for that falls on Abrams and Driver.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 12:30:07 AM
That's fine. But there's literally no way you can accuse me of not looking for depth in characters. I don't even LIKE Episode II. But I can find the positive notes in it. I can see where Hayden is dropping the ham, and what was actually intended.
On a side note, I went into TFA wanting to like Ren, especially when I read and saw the plot. I really, really didn't, and I think the blame for that falls on Abrams and Driver.
I am sorry. I am really sorry. I'm not sure what else to say.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 31, 2015, 12:36:08 AM
Reading the articles about what other ideas the writers had I still think the death scene works the best.  The story is about the new kids, if you have Han and Leia getting back together for a happy ending what the heck do you do with them in the next 2 movies?  Does anyone think Ren is going to survive the trilogy?  Han and Leia would just be torn apart again having to fight their son.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 31, 2015, 12:53:33 AM
Reading the articles about what other ideas the writers had I still think the death scene works the best.  The story is about the new kids, if you have Han and Leia getting back together for a happy ending what the heck do you do with them in the next 2 movies?  Does anyone think Ren is going to survive the trilogy?  Han and Leia would just be torn apart again having to fight their son.

He's either going to die or have a crippling accident at the end of the next movie. I don't think he will be the villain in the 3rd. That slot is reserved for Plagueis.

The next movie will also reveal that Rey is the daughter of Obi-Wan. Something that was pointed out to me was that when she picked up Luke's saber, Ewen McGregor and Alec Guiness had voice cameos. I fall firmly into the camp that Obi-Wan went and got some tail in exile.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 01:15:21 AM
wouldn't hurt to use some spoiler tags.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 31, 2015, 01:15:52 AM
I fall firmly into the camp that Obi-Wan went and got some tail in exile.

There's no way she is old enough to have been conceived before Obi-Wan died.  But it might be interesting to have her be his granddaughter.

But I hope she has no connection to any of the old characters, have some new reason for her being so strong with the force.  Having it be the grand kids of old rivals fighting isn't very original.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 31, 2015, 05:46:23 AM
I thought the scene worked and was played well and it was what Ford has wanted since about 1979.
Unless ADF took some serious liberties in the novel it doesn't seem like the intent was to make Ren more menacing, it was to cement his turn to the dark side, and it remains to be seen what will come of it, he was even more conflicted after doing it, that's why Chewie was able to get his shot in.



Quote
We knew we needed to do something fucking bold. The only reason why Kylo Ren has any hope of being a worthy successor is because we lose one of the most beloved characters
From here:  http://www.cinemablend.com/new/J-J-Abrams-Says-Why-Star-Wars-Shocking-Death-Had-Happen-101597.html

I mean he says it right there; Han died to make Kylo Ren "cool."

Your ability to mis-read quotes is so good, you should work for Fox News. Here is a better quote

Quote
While he had the potential of being too whine-y and not enough evil, J.J. Abrams cemented Ren’s role as a true villain by having Ren kill arguably the most popular character in the entire Star Wars franchise. And audiences are now ready for someone to take the villain down.

So, Han died to give more attention to the new characters and Kylo killed him for...character development? What is that?


Also: I read the discussion between Soguru and Imrahil. I agree about Imrahil's negativity and that is the reason I usually ignore his posts. He has been so negative about Star Wars for so long, I literally don't care what he has to say about it anymore.

I like that LC defends the prequels, because there is some cool stuff in there (it could have been better though). I think J J is a much better director than Lucas. I think you can't put any blame for the Force Awakens on only one person (well you can, but Mickey Mouse isn't a real person, just a representation of a mega-conglomerate corporation that wants nothing more than indoctrinated children).

I think one can pas judgement on Ren in this movie, but we should be open to see where the film takes us.

Force Awakens is not a remake of New Hope! Jebus, you people are ok watching the same friggin comic book origin story over again, but certain elements of a New Hope are in Force Awakens and all the sudden JJ is (more) horrible. Why is it not a remake? Well let's see: Rey doesn't meet a old man sage who guides her, she guides her damn self. She met a potential boyfriend but what does the movie play up? Their platonic feelings for each other (no Luke/Leia/Han sexual tension here).

My prediction (if anyone cares):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I didn't like the prequels because the audience was young kids. There aren't really any themes in the prequels that will help me in real life (maybe loving someone so much I would sacrifice my soul....but I haven't met Joseph Gordon-Levitt or James Franco yet, so I have never experienced this feeling).

Force Awakens was made for 30 year olds. Anybody feel like a shitty parent? Well you can relate to Han and Leia. Anybody hate the idea that with great power comes great responsibility? Yea, so does Luke. What's that? You have abandonment issues? Finn came back for Rey! It was his idea! Hugs all around!

I identify with Kylo. I identify with the friendships. I think Finn is super happy to have friends and that makes me feel good.

whatever, I guess I should get some work done on this New Year's Eve.

Peace out, bitches! *microphone drop*
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 31, 2015, 06:17:39 AM
Something that was pointed out to me was that when she picked up Luke's saber, Ewen McGregor and Alec Guiness had voice cameos. I fall firmly into the camp that Obi-Wan went and got some tail in exile.
She also hears Yoda at that point so maybe he's in her blood somewhere.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Omegaknux/YodaPimp.jpg)

"When 900 you reach, some sweet bitches you will have had."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on December 31, 2015, 06:26:14 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/JogGpZ0.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 31, 2015, 06:55:10 AM
FYI: I hope anyone and everyone continue to post in this thread: positive and negative.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: JimJ on December 31, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
Reading the articles about what other ideas the writers had I still think the death scene works the best.  The story is about the new kids, if you have Han and Leia getting back together for a happy ending what the heck do you do with them in the next 2 movies?  Does anyone think Ren is going to survive the trilogy?  Han and Leia would just be torn apart again having to fight their son.

He's either going to die or have a crippling accident at the end of the next movie. I don't think he will be the villain in the 3rd. That slot is reserved for Plagueis.

The next movie will also reveal that Rey is the daughter of Obi-Wan. Something that was pointed out to me was that when she picked up Luke's saber, Ewen McGregor and Alec Guiness had voice cameos. I fall firmly into the camp that Obi-Wan went and got some tail in exile.

TFA is 30 years after Jedi, which is several years after Obi Wan's death in ANH. Unless Rey is 35-40 years old somehow, the time line doesn't fit.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 31, 2015, 08:08:44 AM
Force Awakens is not a remake of New Hope! Jebus, you people are ok watching the same friggin comic book origin story over again, but certain elements of a New Hope are in Force Awakens and all the sudden JJ is (more) horrible. Why is it not a remake? Well let's see: Rey doesn't meet a old man sage who guides her, she guides her damn self. She met a potential boyfriend but what does the movie play up? Their platonic feelings for each other (no Luke/Leia/Han sexual tension here).

I'm sorry, but you're COMPLETELY wrong here. Rey DOES meet an older father figure;Han takes up that role of wise guide that Obi-Wan did in the first movie. There really wasn't sexual tension between Luke and Leia until Empire, either. I agree that Rey is a fantastic character, but this movie is nearly a shot for shot remake.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on December 31, 2015, 08:49:14 AM
Force Awakens is not a remake of New Hope! Jebus, you people are ok watching the same friggin comic book origin story over again, but certain elements of a New Hope are in Force Awakens and all the sudden JJ is (more) horrible. Why is it not a remake? Well let's see: Rey doesn't meet a old man sage who guides her, she guides her damn self. She met a potential boyfriend but what does the movie play up? Their platonic feelings for each other (no Luke/Leia/Han sexual tension here).

I'm sorry, but you're COMPLETELY wrong here. Rey DOES meet an older father figure;Han takes up that role of wise guide that Obi-Wan did in the first movie. There really wasn't sexual tension between Luke and Leia until Empire, either. I agree that Rey is a fantastic character, but this movie is nearly a shot for shot remake.

Especially the ending when they had a big event and gave Poe, Finn, and Rey awards. Oh, and the escape in the Tie Fighter with Poe and Finn. Oh, and having a storm trooper as a main character totally happened in New Hope. Oh, and I forgot how Leia was kidnapped and then was touched because Han and Luke insisted on saving her (she has abandonment issues you see). Oh yea, and Obi-Wan was an old grump who lost the three things he loves most in the world and had that as his motivation.

You are wrong. It is not a shot-for-shot remake. And anyone who uses that phrase that isn't talking about Gus Van Saint's Psycho is also wrong.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 31, 2015, 08:50:39 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/BHOP38H.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: JimJ on December 31, 2015, 09:07:54 AM
I can only assume that anyone calling TFA a shot for shot remake of ANH either doesn't know what that term means or is being intentionally hyperbolic. Like, it's not even close to that. It's obviously very similar to ANH in a lot of ways but saying it's a shot for shot remake is patently ridiculous.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 09:10:33 AM
I think sometimes people overstate their cases. and maybe I've done that at some times too.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 31, 2015, 09:16:51 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/BHOP38H.jpg)
Quality.

Also while ANH and TFA are thematically (both internally and from a folkloric perspective) very similar, they aren't shot of shot; that's just silly and demonstrably untrue.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 09:19:49 AM
It's not quality, it feels like it was made by somebody who wants to re-start an argument. That's something I don't need or want right now.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 31, 2015, 10:03:11 AM
There are a lot of thematic and visual call backs but it certainly is not a shot for shot remake.

I think they used a few too many callbacks but they don't hurt the movie, it just might have been even better with a few more new ideas.

The other reason you can't say it's a shot for shot remake is that the call backs are from all of the movies, so if you want to say it's shot for shot you've got to pick shots from 6 different movies.  And there is new stuff between those shots. 

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 31, 2015, 10:26:10 AM
So it isn't fair to peg you for liking a movie based on your admitted predilections and preferences--maybe even prejudices--even though you did the same to me right beforehand?
Imrahil, in my experience you tend to be very negative. In my opinion, you just don't know when to quit with the negativity. I honestly can't remember the last time you said "oh that was an AMAZING, awesome movie!".

Arthur Christmas was a great movie.

Maybe I'm just not as hyperbolic? Or maybe I just don't enjoy  movies as much as you do.

Quote
You tend to come across in my view as very aggressive in your stances and opinions on things. So, I'm sorry for what I said, but it's very hard to talk to you in a way where I can explain how I feel the way I do. My problem is I don't know how to explain in a way that will make you understand.

I think I understand completely well. I just don't agree with your priorities; I don't think an emotional connection is the most important element in a movie. I don't like being manipulated by cheap theatrics.  That's the difference.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on December 31, 2015, 10:26:55 AM
It's not quality, it feels like it was made by somebody who wants to re-start an argument. That's something I don't need or want right now.
What?

It's a funny pic combining CAH and the whiny lil shit that is Kylo Ren, that's some funny stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 31, 2015, 10:28:06 AM
golly gee dern, folks. Yes, I was overstating it purposefully.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on December 31, 2015, 10:42:58 AM
golly gee dern, folks. Yes, I was overstating it purposefully.

That part wasn't very easy to see.

It is really hard to get sarcasm to come across in posts, I've been failing at it for many years....

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on December 31, 2015, 12:38:34 PM
Saw Star Wars a second time. I don't remember seeing another movie more than once in theaters since I was a kid. I loved it just as much but I personally don't recommend seeing it in 3D. It was fun being able to focus down on the specific scenes I've been thinking about the past the week.

To say the The Force Awakens story was derivative of the the original trilogy would be an understatement. It's a valid criticism but one I personally don't agree with. I feel that since this new generation of Star Wars has so much to prove for a franchise with so much baggage, it makes sense that they would re assure audiences that the Star Wars they loved is back. That being said, future movies in the series really need to differentiate themselves a little more.   
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on December 31, 2015, 01:55:05 PM
There's also the matter of RotJ recycling Tattooine and having another Death Star.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on December 31, 2015, 03:43:32 PM
I think Luke should have been there to save Han from being shish kabob'd..
I mean Han was there to save Luke from his father so he could get those shots away that blow'd up the Death Star, but instead Luke was staring out at the ocean on an island waiting for his light saber to be returned.. Was the Force snoozing on that vision ???
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 06:09:28 PM
I think I understand completely well. I just don't agree with your priorities; I don't think an emotional connection is the most important element in a movie. I don't like being manipulated by cheap theatrics.  That's the difference.
I don't see things that way Im. I'm also sorry you feel like I'm... I don't know what you mean, but it doesn't sound very flattering.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 31, 2015, 06:18:06 PM
There's also the matter of RotJ recycling Tattooine and having another Death Star.

Just two of the things that make it a not very good movie. ROTS is better.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 06:24:31 PM
There's also the matter of RotJ recycling Tattooine and having another Death Star.
Just two of the things that make it a not very good movie. ROTS is better.
Say what you want about ROTJ, but I really like it quite a lot. Only two things really drag it down, and that's the musical number in Jabba's palace, and the Ewoks. Fine, I'll concede on those two points. However, and I admit this is just me, but I find the climax to be so emotionally satisfying. Luke fighting his father... the music that ensues, you can't see Vaders face in that scene but you already know that he knows he's pressed the wrong nerve with the thread of turning Leia to the dark side. As a kid, that always gave me chills and still does to this day. It's also fascinating to me in that moment because Darth Vader in my eyes went from being a straight up horrible bad guy to being a vulnerable character who I really felt for. Then when Luke looks at Vader's arm, the severed hand and then he looks at his own hand, damn, I found so much depth in that moment.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on December 31, 2015, 06:24:57 PM
There's also the matter of RotJ recycling Tattooine and having another Death Star.

Just two of the things that make it a not very good movie. ROTS is better.

but.. EWOKS! they're so CUTE!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 31, 2015, 06:29:55 PM
There's also the matter of RotJ recycling Tattooine and having another Death Star.

Just two of the things that make it a not very good movie. ROTS is better.

but.. EWOKS! they're so CUTE!

I don't care how stupid Ewoks are, I think they're adorable and the best. I rather LIKED RotJ. My ranking of Star Wars movies is 1. Empire, 2. Jedi, 3. RotS, 4. TFA, 5. A New Hope, 6. Phantom Menace, 7. Attack of the Clones.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 06:38:21 PM
Another thing about the Ewoks... at least one of them died during that movie and I think most people felt grief over that poor little random Ewok. Wicket is a cute little booger too. I'm not one for importing certain aspects of pop culture into Star Wars by any means, but his very subtle delivery of "aiiiieee Chiuahua" always cracks me up.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on December 31, 2015, 08:52:42 PM
I liked the scene on the gantry between Luke & Vader. That and the funeral pyre were the best scenes in the movie to me.  Didn't like Jabba, didn't like the endor battle, hated the recycling of the Death Star, didn't like the new rebel fleet uniforms or ship designs, didn't like the emperor, still don't like Luke's green saber.

To me the ranking is:
SW
ESB
ROTS
ROTJ
AOTC
TPM
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on December 31, 2015, 08:59:03 PM
For me... if certain things in a movie are good enough, I am more than willing to overlook anything that might otherwise tend to annoy or bug me. It's okay to get lost in a fantasy world a movie portrays, but just don't let yourself get... too lost, if that makes any sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on December 31, 2015, 11:44:30 PM
For me... if certain things in a movie are good enough, I am more than willing to overlook anything that might otherwise tend to annoy or bug me. It's okay to get lost in a fantasy world a movie portrays, but just don't let yourself get... too lost, if that makes any sense.

The difference between something like Star Wars and Star Trek, though, is that Star Trek bases it's universe off of a future of ours. Same rules, same laws of physics. Star Wars is purportedly a past version of our universe, and while I can accept some things, bending the laws of physics is a hard pill to swallow. Not impossible, but VERY hard. Even if I could look past those things if "certain things were good enough", in this case I couldn't, because they're simply not. This is a mid tier film. If A New Hope was a 5, this would be a 5.1.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on December 31, 2015, 11:56:56 PM
For me... if certain things in a movie are good enough, I am more than willing to overlook anything that might otherwise tend to annoy or bug me. It's okay to get lost in a fantasy world a movie portrays, but just don't let yourself get... too lost, if that makes any sense.

The difference between something like Star Wars and Star Trek, though, is that Star Trek bases it's universe off of a future of ours. Same rules, same laws of physics. Star Wars is purportedly a past version of our universe, and while I can accept some things, bending the laws of physics is a hard pill to swallow. Not impossible, but VERY hard. Even if I could look past those things if "certain things were good enough", in this case I couldn't, because they're simply not. This is a mid tier film. If A New Hope was a 5, this would be a 5.1.

I think the biggest difference between Star Wars and Trek is that Trek is SciFI grounded in actual science. Star Wars is an epic space opera, it's about telling the heroes tale with epic emotional scenes. I love the hell out of both BTW, just in case people assume I'm flame waring.


OK, now it's time for Doohickey's The Force Awakens conspiracy theory of the day.

Ray speaks with a British accent in the film. No one else on Jakku spoke with that accent, and no Jedi (besides Obi). Nearly ALL generals and admirals in the Empire and the First Order speak with British accents. Does this imply Ray could have been raised (pre Jakku) by higher ups in the first order? Or maybe Luke was bone zoning with an Empire chick like Captain Phasma. Maybe Daisy Ridley just couldn't do an American accent. Both Ridley and Boyega are GB natives but for some reason Boyega did an American accent while Ridley did not.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 01, 2016, 12:38:42 AM
I also noticed her accent...

You know who else used a (bad) British accent early on in Star Wars: Leia.....
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on January 01, 2016, 01:36:08 AM
I also noticed her accent...

You know who else used a (bad) British accent early on in Star Wars: Leia.....

She had moments of it, Floppy Mandalama also had one.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: eegah on January 01, 2016, 04:49:15 AM
There's also the matter of RotJ recycling Tattooine and having another Death Star.

Just two of the things that make it a not very good movie. ROTS is better.

(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii301/eegah/ohidontthinkso.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on January 01, 2016, 02:15:32 PM
For me... if certain things in a movie are good enough, I am more than willing to overlook anything that might otherwise tend to annoy or bug me. It's okay to get lost in a fantasy world a movie portrays, but just don't let yourself get... too lost, if that makes any sense.

The difference between something like Star Wars and Star Trek, though, is that Star Trek bases it's universe off of a future of ours. Same rules, same laws of physics. Star Wars is purportedly a past version of our universe, and while I can accept some things, bending the laws of physics is a hard pill to swallow. Not impossible, but VERY hard. Even if I could look past those things if "certain things were good enough", in this case I couldn't, because they're simply not. This is a mid tier film. If A New Hope was a 5, this would be a 5.1.

What is all this science doing in my mystic space religion? Waiter!




Also, Imrahil, I am very interested to find out that you rank ROTS over ROTJ. I wouldn't have guessed.

My list: Empire, Star Wars, ROTJ, ROTS, TPM, AotC.

On ROTJ: I would have loved to see a whole movie based on Jabba's Palace/Barge. I find the opening sequence really captivating. All of the characters actually have great motivation in saving Han and they all have interesting things to do. Later on in the film half the cast is at a stand still while the action plays out. That said, the Jabba's Palace/Barge bit has almost nothing to do with the rest of the movie and Luke's plan is insane. It needed to set up some paybacks later on in the film. I loved the Ewoks, but I thought they were portrayed as too effective in battle and it really declawed the Empire to watch an AT-ST get taken out by a log trap and see Stormtroopers killed by tiny little blunt rock spears.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 01, 2016, 02:47:59 PM
You know, thinking about it a while, whether Kylo Ren is emo or not honestly doesn't bother me all that much. I like seeing emotions in my characters, even villains. As long as it feels organic or genuine then I'm fine with it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 01, 2016, 04:12:52 PM
the Jabba's Palace/Barge bit has almost nothing to do with the rest of the movie and Luke's plan is insane.

Makes me think of the Futurama episode with the robot devil and his insanely long plan to get his hands back.  Luke's plan did rely on a whole lot of dominoes falling just right....

The original theatrical version of what happened at Jabba's place was only a bit too long, but when they added all the additional stuff it really bogged it down to where it loses all it's punch.

And don't get me started on the ewok's fighting the storm troopers, that only held up the very first time watching, after that if you think about it even a little it falls apart really badly.  All those traps, it would take months for them to set them up, and rocks against all that armor? 

As for emo Ren, I could see that as a rebellion against his cool/famous/hero parents, with Snoke taking advantage of that as soon as he noticed it.  At least that's the only way I can make sense of him being turned.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on January 01, 2016, 05:11:12 PM
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h275/rvr2/03/75591_10153194763786174_5981372029071880752_n_zpsvbztcbw5.jpg) (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/rvr2/media/03/75591_10153194763786174_5981372029071880752_n_zpsvbztcbw5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 01, 2016, 09:42:00 PM
RVR I'm confused, mostly because that was not a gif file.  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 01, 2016, 09:51:15 PM

Also, Imrahil, I am very interested to find out that you rank ROTS over ROTJ. I wouldn't have guessed.


To me the original Star Wars (I fucking hate the name "A New Hope") is the best one in terms of a lot of things, especially design. Empire followed suit closely; ROTJ departed a lot from it Partially this is due to switching some key players--Johnston had a lot more to do with the designs in ROTJ than McQuarrie did, who only did a few paintings (far fewer than he did for the other two films), and Nilo Rodis-Jamero was no John Mollo. I fucking hate Rodis-Jamero's costume designs for the most part. They're so cliche.  Everyone on Tatooine in ROTJ just looks like an extra from Mad Max, and this carried over to the prequels and now the sequels (Rey's outfit, for example).

ROTS is deliberately trying to echo Star Wars in many places, so I like the designs in it better.  I'm also interested in stories set between ROTS and Star Wars, since that's an interesting era.  I'm not 100% thrilled with what Rebels is doing, but at least it's sort of small-scale.

I'm really looking forward to Rogue One; I hope it doesn't disappoint me as much as TFA has.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 01, 2016, 10:23:45 PM
One thing's for sure about Rogue one: It'll be very different from all the other Star Wars films, and I don't mind that at all. With the film being devoid of Jedi/Sith and being so gritty, it'll be very different from all the other Star Wars movies and that could be a very damn good thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 01, 2016, 10:42:02 PM
I'm sad about the "gritty" part. It's so played out now, and anathema to what Star Wars should be.  That said, I'm super excited about the non-Force part.  The battle between the Empire and the Rebellion is what I've always been most interested in.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 02, 2016, 09:32:22 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/qAUOjV1.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: PsychoGoatee on January 02, 2016, 12:55:14 PM
Donnie Yen rules, so that has me extra excited for Rogue One.

Seen The Force Awakens three times! That will probably be it for theatrical viewings of it, but never say never.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on January 02, 2016, 04:42:36 PM
ROTJ departed a lot from it Partially this is due to switching some key players--Johnston had a lot more to do with the designs in ROTJ than McQuarrie did, who only did a few paintings (far fewer than he did for the other two films), and Nilo Rodis-Jamero was no John Mollo. I fucking hate Rodis-Jamero's costume designs for the most part. They're so cliche.  Everyone on Tatooine in ROTJ just looks like an extra from Mad Max, and this carried over to the prequels and now the sequels (Rey's outfit, for example).

This is just the sort of thing I've been trying to dig into and find out who contributed what to make the originals what they were. I've been seeing a lot of praise for Marcia Lucas' editing skills as well as her personal affinity for reigning in George and honing the execution of his ideas on SW and ESB(as well as being largely absent from ROTJ because of the divorce.)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 02, 2016, 06:32:12 PM
I have seen it for the third time today. This time... Third time really is the charm. I loved it and honestly, there is very little I would change about the movie, if I could. That being said, I WANT to see it again and again. The last time I said that about a movie was Guardians of the Galaxy. I really liked this years Age of Ultron a lot and it stands up to repeat viewings but I want to see Star Wars over and over even moreso
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 02, 2016, 07:40:52 PM
Adam, Norm, and Will from tested talking about the movie:

http://www.youtube.com/v/YA0tozLIEHc
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 02, 2016, 09:09:26 PM
Well, I saw it.

It wasn't as bad as I feared, but still not as good as everyone says. I'd rank it 5th best. Han was good (still pissed they killed him, rewrote his backstory to make his later years basically shit).  Lots of stuff was not good. Kylo was not as bad as I'd feared either, though I think they made a big mistake in having him de-mask before he faced Han.

- Huge plot problems.  The destruction of the Republic system should have been way, way more highlighted as important. It was just eye candy. This shouldn't have been the final version.
- The big weapon is insanely stupid. It makes the sun go dark? WTF? What about this massive blast of radiation and these guys are all just sitting there a few miles away watching it? Resistance apparently just has to wait a few years and everyone in the First Order will die of leukemia.
- Stormtrooper armor still sucks apparently. Only filters smoke? Are these guys combat troops or firefighters?
- Rey is way overpowered and does not make sense as a hero--they jumped over way too much.
- Finn's character does not make sense (so he's trained as a janitor or a stormtrooper? Which one? He's trained for 30 years to kill, then just quits? Has no problems killing right after that intro scene though? Huh?).
- I think I'm going to call the other one Bro Dameron. He's very "dude brah" to me, with all his whooping and highfiving and stuff. The whole intro scene between the two guys in the TIE fighter was just cringe-worthy.

I guess it's better than AOTC or TPM, but I'm not going to rush out to watch it again. Or indeed, watch the file I acquired. 

It's just not that good, guys. I get that you're all glad it isn't the prequels, but I think time will show that this movie is seriously overrated right now.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 02, 2016, 09:52:55 PM
Well Imrahil I'm sorry you were disappointed.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on January 02, 2016, 09:58:17 PM
Well Imrahil I'm sorry you were disappointed.
Hey Ranking it 5th ain't too bad..
I'd rank it 4th as of now behind the first 3 originals :o
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 02, 2016, 10:07:07 PM
Hey Ranking it 5th ain't too bad..
I'd rank it 4th as of now behind the first 3 originals :o
Certain people had me questioning myself, so that's in part why I saw it 2 and 3 times. It took me a lot of viewings to completely process it. I'd rank it just behind Empire Strikes back. Just like no Trek movie has ever exceeded The Wrath of Khan, no Star Wars movie will ever exceed ESB... but I'd be more than happy if Rian Johnson proves me wrong end of next year.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 02, 2016, 10:17:59 PM
Watching it again I felt that the audience realizing at the beginning of the scene that Han is going to die was intentional. JJ Abrams respected the intelligence of the audience to know the Star Wars pattern, and just in general the typical fate of the mentor character, to ratchet up the tension in that scene. Like in a good horror movie. So that the death of a beloved character would be horrifying and carry more emotional weight.
And as far as the notion of "Han should have gone down swinging"? He did. He was fighting for his son. It just didn't happen to be with his fists or blaster.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 02, 2016, 10:26:15 PM
Well Imrahil I'm sorry you were disappointed.
Hey Ranking it 5th ain't too bad..
I'd rank it 4th as of now behind the first 3 originals :o

I'm similar. It's 4th, after Empire, then Jedi, but I put Revenge higher, because it's pretty awesome. I think A New Hope is pretty meh. If anything it's tied with TFA, or JUST under it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 02, 2016, 10:34:46 PM
There's not much else I can say... but I do believe in the force again.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Variety of Cells on January 02, 2016, 11:30:45 PM
Well, I saw it.

It wasn't as bad as I feared, but still not as good as everyone says. I'd rank it 5th best. Han was good (still pissed they killed him, rewrote his backstory to make his later years basically shit).  Lots of stuff was not good. Kylo was not as bad as I'd feared either, though I think they made a big mistake in having him de-mask before he faced Han.

- Huge plot problems.  The destruction of the Republic system should have been way, way more highlighted as important. It was just eye candy. This shouldn't have been the final version.
- The big weapon is insanely stupid. It makes the sun go dark? WTF? What about this massive blast of radiation and these guys are all just sitting there a few miles away watching it? Resistance apparently just has to wait a few years and everyone in the First Order will die of leukemia.
- Stormtrooper armor still sucks apparently. Only filters smoke? Are these guys combat troops or firefighters?
- Rey is way overpowered and does not make sense as a hero--they jumped over way too much.
- Finn's character does not make sense (so he's trained as a janitor or a stormtrooper? Which one? He's trained for 30 years to kill, then just quits? Has no problems killing right after that intro scene though? Huh?).
- I think I'm going to call the other one Bro Dameron. He's very "dude brah" to me, with all his whooping and highfiving and stuff. The whole intro scene between the two guys in the TIE fighter was just cringe-worthy.

I guess it's better than AOTC or TPM, but I'm not going to rush out to watch it again. Or indeed, watch the file I acquired. 

It's just not that good, guys. I get that you're all glad it isn't the prequels, but I think time will show that this movie is seriously overrated right now.

Got me thinking about the big weapon, and you're right in thinking it's silly because it's literal overkill. The fact that they just took away the star of a planetary system means everyliving thing on every planet would freeze and die within days.

But I liked the movie, silliness aside.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on January 02, 2016, 11:32:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/1w8Z0UOXVaY
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MrTorso on January 03, 2016, 05:56:36 AM
Hey Ranking it 5th ain't too bad..
I'd rank it 4th as of now behind the first 3 originals :o
Certain people had me questioning myself, so that's in part why I saw it 2 and 3 times. It took me a lot of viewings to completely process it. I'd rank it just behind Empire Strikes back. Just like no Trek movie has ever exceeded The Wrath of Khan, no Star Wars movie will ever exceed ESB... but I'd be more than happy if Rian Johnson proves me wrong end of next year.

You really need to step back and say who gives a shit what other people think.... if you loved the movie, you loved the movie. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on January 03, 2016, 07:51:03 AM
has the porn parody of this been made yet? so many intriguing possibilities...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 03, 2016, 08:34:47 AM
Star Whores: The Cock Awakens

Finn arrives on Jackuoff to meet Rey, a young woman who is particularly skilled at handling his staff. Too soon, though, their rendevouz is cut short by the evil First Whorder, a group of villains who have the goal of resetting up the Slutlactic Dickpire's rules that sex must only be done in the missionary position with the lights off! Follow the journey of our heroes as they battle the evil Kylie Ren, a dark and mysterious woman and agent of the First Whorder, and meet several series regulars along the way, including Chewcocka, Luke Skyhumper, C3-Peniso, and many others!

Starring Sasha Grey, and a guy no one cares about because nobody cares about male porn stars.

I wonder if Netflix will pay me for that summary.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Variety of Cells on January 03, 2016, 09:10:49 AM
Star Whores: The Cock Awakens

Finn arrives on Jackuoff to meet Rey, a young woman who is particularly skilled at handling his staff. Too soon, though, their rendevouz is cut short by the evil First Whorder, a group of villains who have the goal of resetting up the Slutlactic Dickpire's rules that sex must only be done in the missionary position with the lights off! Follow the journey of our heroes as they battle the evil Kylie Ren, a dark and mysterious woman and agent of the First Whorder, and meet several series regulars along the way, including Chewcocka, Luke Skyhumper, C3-Peniso, and many others!

Starring Sasha Grey, and a guy no one cares about because nobody cares about male porn stars.

I wonder if Netflix will pay me for that summary.

I almost cried when C3-Peniso left R2-DP2, just because the bot only had two holes for his three penis'.  He was your soul mate, can't you see that?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on January 03, 2016, 01:51:44 PM

It's just not that good, guys. I get that you're all glad it isn't the prequels, but I think time will show that this movie is seriously overrated right now.

So confident and self-righteous, and yet so many people don't care what you think.


I enjoyed your post until this bullshit.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 03, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
So confident and self-righteous, and yet so many people don't care what you think.
I enjoyed your post until this bullshit.
I stand by you, my friend.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 03, 2016, 04:31:17 PM
Even though it had issues I still enjoyed it.  Despite JJ Abrams involvement, it still felt like a Star Wars movie.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quirk on January 03, 2016, 06:48:51 PM
As for people thinking the dialog was bad... some people spend so much time in fiction that they don't know a genuine sentence when they hear it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 03, 2016, 06:52:00 PM
I'm just glad we didn't get a "I hate the sand" moment.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 03, 2016, 07:02:34 PM
As opposed to the prequels which despite the Lucas involvement, didn't feel at all like Star Wars movies.


Although I think even mentioning them in the same sentence as the prequels is an insult, I get that you're angry you're not 11 years old and have some issue with JJ but it's a fun ride that pays homage to it's history while moving forward.

Anyone using the term 'overrated' has me instantly picturing Comic Book Guy lol
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 03, 2016, 07:04:22 PM
Even though it had issues I still enjoyed it.  Despite JJ Abrams involvement, it still felt like a Star Wars movie.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Janitor to stormtrooper makes sense to you? It'd be like making Dave Lister a marine.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 03, 2016, 07:07:07 PM
Even though it had issues I still enjoyed it.  Despite JJ Abrams involvement, it still felt like a Star Wars movie.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Janitor to stormtrooper makes sense to you? It'd be like making Dave Lister a marine.
I just figured that working in sanitation, and other menial roles, was what they had the Stormtroopers doing while they were being trained up to be soldiers.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 03, 2016, 07:08:14 PM
I do hope the tone does shift for the subsequent ones, however.  They don't all need to be in "serious business" mode.

Even though it had issues I still enjoyed it.  Despite JJ Abrams involvement, it still felt like a Star Wars movie.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Janitor to stormtrooper makes sense to you? It'd be like making Dave Lister a marine.
In all fairness, we never got the full story.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 03, 2016, 07:09:18 PM

It's just not that good, guys. I get that you're all glad it isn't the prequels, but I think time will show that this movie is seriously overrated right now.

So confident and self-righteous, and yet so many people don't care what you think.


I enjoyed your post until this bullshit.

Thanks for the unprovoked  ad hominem.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 03, 2016, 07:11:54 PM
 Don't regular soldiers do all the various tasks in the military?  A soldier doing janitorial duty is not the same as a janitor becoming a soldier.

 As for Rey knowing how to deal with the technology on the starkiller, in the novel she recognized that the First Order was using the same technology as all the stuff she had been scavenging from the crashed empire ships.

 

 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on January 03, 2016, 07:19:28 PM

It's just not that good, guys. I get that you're all glad it isn't the prequels, but I think time will show that this movie is seriously overrated right now.

So confident and self-righteous, and yet so many people don't care what you think.


I enjoyed your post until this bullshit.

Thanks for the unprovoked  ad hominem.

You're welcome. I hope you take it heart and provide your opinions without telling us if what we should think is "correct."

Also, your attitude has been discussed a lot in this thread, so my statement was neither unprovoked or ad hominem (I don't care about your criticisms, I have a problem with your attitude with the sentence I quoted).

*kisses!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 03, 2016, 07:46:33 PM
Don't regular soldiers do all the various tasks in the military?  A soldier doing janitorial duty is not the same as a janitor becoming a soldier.


Hmmm, it's almost like people are intentionally looking for holes to try and prove their point the movie wouldn't be good as soon as it was announced  8)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 03, 2016, 08:34:14 PM

It's just not that good, guys. I get that you're all glad it isn't the prequels, but I think time will show that this movie is seriously overrated right now.

So confident and self-righteous, and yet so many people don't care what you think.


I enjoyed your post until this bullshit.

Thanks for the unprovoked  ad hominem.

You're welcome. I hope you take it heart and provide your opinions without telling us if what we should think is "correct."

Also, your attitude has been discussed a lot in this thread, so my statement was neither unprovoked or ad hominem (I don't care about your criticisms, I have a problem with your attitude with the sentence I quoted).

*kisses!

a) You do this kind of shit all the time, but it's not okay when I do?
b) It was unprovoked; where are we discussing me (other than this, right now)?
c) Fuck you
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 03, 2016, 08:35:23 PM
Also, the theater I was in didn't have the movie specific glasses.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 03, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
Don't regular soldiers do all the various tasks in the military?  A soldier doing janitorial duty is not the same as a janitor becoming a soldier.

 As for Rey knowing how to deal with the technology on the starkiller, in the novel she recognized that the First Order was using the same technology as all the stuff she had been scavenging from the crashed empire ships.

Are you under the impression that stormtroopers are just the "regular soldiers"? I assumed they were elites like seal teams or something.  I always thought the regular soldiers were just these guys (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper).  So yeah, to me it's weird.  Just another thing in his character which is played for laughs--which would work if he didn't have the background the story is telling us he does, and he was just some "ordinary schmo."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 03, 2016, 09:01:57 PM
Don't regular soldiers do all the various tasks in the military?  A soldier doing janitorial duty is not the same as a janitor becoming a soldier.

 As for Rey knowing how to deal with the technology on the starkiller, in the novel she recognized that the First Order was using the same technology as all the stuff she had been scavenging from the crashed empire ships.

Are you under the impression that stormtroopers are just the "regular soldiers"? I assumed they were elites like seal teams or something.  I always thought the regular soldiers were just these guys (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper).  So yeah, to me it's weird.  Just another thing in his character which is played for laughs--which would work if he didn't have the background the story is telling us he does, and he was just some "ordinary schmo."

I never ever thought of stormtroopers being "elite".  For one thing there are way too many of them, if they were like seal teams there would only be small groups of them, not many thousands.  Also when ever we have seen them on the battlefield they sure act like regular soldiers.  Maybe they are one step above those guys in that link, but when have we seen those guys on screen?

I never read any of the EU books, so my opinion of them is based on what we have seen in the movies or in the novels for the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 03, 2016, 09:16:15 PM
From every description I've read, I think they're supposed to be elite troops.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/stormtroopers

"Stormtroopers are elite shock troops fanatically loyal to the Empire and impossible to sway from the Imperial cause. "

http://www.starwars.com/databank/first-order-stormtroopers
These guys are called "infantry units" rather than elite shock troops, but the rest of the passage implies to me that they're not doing the routine support stuff:

"Where the Empire opted for numbing routine, the First Order’s training simulations and live-fire drills encourage improvisation on the battlefield, making these stormtroopers more dangerous than their Imperial predecessors."

Technically this is all vetted by the Story Group, so is supposed to be "real."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 03, 2016, 09:31:39 PM
Don't regular soldiers do all the various tasks in the military?  A soldier doing janitorial duty is not the same as a janitor becoming a soldier.

 As for Rey knowing how to deal with the technology on the starkiller, in the novel she recognized that the First Order was using the same technology as all the stuff she had been scavenging from the crashed empire ships.

Are you under the impression that stormtroopers are just the "regular soldiers"? I assumed they were elites like seal teams or something.  I always thought the regular soldiers were just these guys (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper).  So yeah, to me it's weird.  Just another thing in his character which is played for laughs--which would work if he didn't have the background the story is telling us he does, and he was just some "ordinary schmo."

I never ever thought of stormtroopers being "elite".  For one thing there are way too many of them, if they were like seal teams there would only be small groups of them, not many thousands.  Also when ever we have seen them on the battlefield they sure act like regular soldiers.  Maybe they are one step above those guys in that link, but when have we seen those guys on screen?

I never read any of the EU books, so my opinion of them is based on what we have seen in the movies or in the novels for the movies.

Have people convinced themselves he's a plumber or some shit just to pick holes and not guarding sanitation ports or something?  You know, since it's an internal series of tunnels within the structure people could use to escape... 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on January 03, 2016, 09:36:11 PM
For all that unswayable loyalty, the Empire lost at least Kyle Katarn, Dash Rendar (aka Sirs No Longer Appearing in this Universe), Crix Madine, and that Davin Felth guy who may or may not be erased.  Sure, they weren't all stormtroopers, but they turned to the Republic pretty quick and didn't even really get an angry letter about it.

And yet, the First Order has one deserter, and they send squadrons and fanatical vibro-tonfa guy to wreck him a new one.  Which one is the more concerned about loyalty, really? ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 04, 2016, 12:18:34 AM
Well, if all that stuff written about stromtroopers is supposed to be true it sure doesn't show on screen.

And yet, the First Order has one deserter, and they send squadrons and fanatical vibro-tonfa guy to wreck him a new one.  Which one is the more concerned about loyalty, really? ;)

In the novel it does make them very concerned, they were sure they could weed out anyone that could possibly turn by all the testing and brainwashing training they were doing, so someone that never showed a single blip suddenly turning was making them worried that it could happen to any trooper.

Listening to the Tested.com folks talk about the movie makes me want to see it in Imax 3D.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 04, 2016, 12:34:00 AM
I feel the First Order has a far more Military cult feel like Nazi Germany or perhaps the North Korean government (the 'rally' scene really drives that home) while the Empire was basically a militaristic Bureaucracy, Vader killing guys for failure was more Vader being a loony than their due process.  They weren't scouring the galaxy for General Madine and other people who had defected to the Rebellion. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 04, 2016, 08:12:30 AM

In the novel it does make them very concerned, they were sure they could weed out anyone that could possibly turn by all the testing and brainwashing training they were doing, so someone that never showed a single blip suddenly turning was making them worried that it could happen to any trooper.


That would've been a really interesting angle to actually explore a bit.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 04, 2016, 08:41:03 AM
With any luck, it'll be part of the 20 mins or so of deleted footage that JJ Abrams mentioned.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 04, 2016, 10:03:37 AM
With any luck, it'll be part of the 20 mins or so of deleted footage that JJ Abrams mentioned.

There was a tiny bit of it in the movie, that very short scene where they say this was Finn's first problem, hopefully they filmed what would probably be a few minutes of dialog that is in the novel.  I can understand why it wasn't in the movie, it is interesting that they start to get a little paranoid about their own troops and talk about stuff they might do later on, but the movie or novel never get back to it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on January 04, 2016, 12:56:19 PM
As for people thinking the dialog was bad... some people spend so much time in fiction that they don't know a genuine sentence when they hear it.
I have a degree in English.  (I spent two years studying film and they canceled the program.)  I can't speak for Lawful.  I agree with Imrahil that it is seriously overrated. Is it bad?  No, I made it clear that I enjoyed it.  Why the fanboy hate for anyone that has differing opinions?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quirk on January 04, 2016, 01:38:21 PM
Why the fanboy hate for anyone that has differing opinions?

Uh, I don't know. Ask a hateful fanboy.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 04, 2016, 01:57:39 PM
As for people thinking the dialog was bad... some people spend so much time in fiction that they don't know a genuine sentence when they hear it.
I have a degree in English.  (I spent two years studying film and they canceled the program.)  I can't speak for Lawful.  I agree with Imrahil that it is seriously overrated. Is it bad?  No, I made it clear that I enjoyed it.  Why the fanboy hate for anyone that has differing opinions?

I've said that I liked it, and that it just doesn't deserve all the high praise it's getting. I do think that it had problems, but it was still enjoyable.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on January 04, 2016, 02:26:03 PM
Hey. Hey, you guys. I also loved the medic lady talking to Chewie all "It sounds like you were very brave." and he responds all like "Yeah, I was pretty brave."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 04, 2016, 04:11:40 PM
Hey. Hey, you guys. I also loved the medic lady talking to Chewie all "It sounds like you were very brave." and he responds all like "Yeah, I was pretty brave."

I like to imagine he was talking about how there was this guy treating his wound that didn't know what he was doing and it really hurt!  And how he really wanted to kill that guy!  ;D

I hope they filmed a longer version of the scene at the end when Rey gets into the pilot chair in the Falcon, that is pretty great in the novel. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Johnny Unusual on January 04, 2016, 04:14:00 PM
I'm torn on whether to interpret that scene as "so is this like a nurse looking after a three year old?" or "those two are going to become an item."  Loved it all the same.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 04, 2016, 04:53:17 PM
I see no point in complaining about the dialogue in TFA. I can remember little or any of it that had me cringing at all. On the contrary, I remember good dialogue and some damn good lines.
Examples(I have to recite these from memories so pardon me if I don't quote them precisely):
"Stay calm, stay calm"
"I am calm"
"I was talking to myself."

"Look how old you've become"
"Something far worse has happened to you."

"Listen big deal, you've got a problem... women always find out the truth... always."

You know, I'm not going to claim the dialogue was great, but it did what it had to do and none of it ever took me out of the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 04, 2016, 08:26:33 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 04, 2016, 10:46:29 PM
Heh.  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 05, 2016, 02:26:09 AM
As for people thinking the dialog was bad... some people spend so much time in fiction that they don't know a genuine sentence when they hear it.
I have a degree in English.  (I spent two years studying film and they canceled the program.)  I can't speak for Lawful.  I agree with Imrahil that it is seriously overrated. Is it bad?  No, I made it clear that I enjoyed it.  Why the fanboy hate for anyone that has differing opinions?

I would say because I find the term 'overrated' staggeringly arrogant
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 05, 2016, 06:27:21 AM
Hey. Hey, you guys. I also loved the medic lady talking to Chewie all "It sounds like you were very brave." and he responds all like "Yeah, I was pretty brave."
Ah, the always lovely Harriet Walter. :)

She's Christopher Lee's niece incidentally.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 05, 2016, 06:28:47 AM
Hey. Hey, you guys. I also loved the medic lady talking to Chewie all "It sounds like you were very brave." and he responds all like "Yeah, I was pretty brave."

I like to imagine he was talking about how there was this guy treating his wound that didn't know what he was doing and it really hurt!  And how he really wanted to kill that guy!  ;D

I hope they filmed a longer version of the scene at the end when Rey gets into the pilot chair in the Falcon, that is pretty great in the novel.
This might have to be the first novelization I've read since the one for Jedi (which actually was the only version of Jedi I knew for years)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 05, 2016, 09:14:12 AM
Hey. Hey, you guys. I also loved the medic lady talking to Chewie all "It sounds like you were very brave." and he responds all like "Yeah, I was pretty brave."
Ah, the always lovely Harriet Walter. :)
Funny thing, my mom actually recognized her when we went to see the movie this past Saturday, from all the British stuff she watches.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 05, 2016, 09:16:46 AM
Yes she's on Downton Abbey, though I don't watch that. She's a terrific stage actress, especially in Jacobean stuff. :)

The core of the UP Shakespeare festival got together on Sunday and mostly we talked about the stage people we recognized in the movie, best brunch for ages. :D
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 06, 2016, 08:15:31 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/Xw2IYbz.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on January 06, 2016, 08:41:26 AM
OK, now that that's posted, I've had a somewhat tasteless joke I've been hanging onto for awhile, and I think enough time has passed...

So, does this now mean we're getting those "Dead Han" action figures George Lucas didn't want to sell all those years ago?

(I now await the impending tomatoes and/or death threats. ;))
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 06, 2016, 11:34:45 AM
I doubt we'd ever see that, I do remember there was a Luke figure where Luke's right hand came off and could be re-attached magnetically.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 06, 2016, 11:51:25 AM
I doubt we'd ever see that, I do remember there was a Luke figure where Luke's right hand came off and could be re-attached magnetically.

I guess you never read the interviews over the years where Ford jabs at Lucas by saying the reason Han didn't die in ROTJ was because they wouldn't be able to sell dead Han action figures. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 06, 2016, 02:39:50 PM
Apparently Han didn't die in the Arndt version of the script. So yeah, that's JJ trying to "make his mark" (on someone else's canvas).

He's such a fuck.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on January 06, 2016, 03:27:10 PM
Apparently Han didn't die in the Arndt version of the script. So yeah, that's JJ trying to "make his mark" (on someone else's canvas).

He's such a fuck.

To be fair, Harrison already made it clear that he wanted Han Solo to die back in ROTJ, and how long could he believably portray a badass blaster-totin' smuggler when he's over 70?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 06, 2016, 04:52:43 PM
He's such a fuck
Let me ask you, how do you expect someone to respond to that?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 06, 2016, 06:18:48 PM
He's such a fuck
Let me ask you, how do you expect someone to respond to that?

Why does it need a response?

Also

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 07, 2016, 06:34:06 AM
People are seriously writing articles saying the science of TFA is wrong? It's the science in Star Wars, it's always been total bullshit you nit picky, whiny assholes.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on January 07, 2016, 06:39:29 AM
Apparently Han didn't die in the Arndt version of the script. So yeah, that's JJ trying to "make his mark" (on someone else's canvas).

He's such a fuck.

You are literally doing this because you enjoy having nerd rage. Meh, if it makes you happy.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 07, 2016, 06:48:46 AM
People are seriously writing articles saying the science of TFA is wrong? It's the science in Star Wars, it's always been total bullshit you nit picky, whiny assholes.

To be fair, they really went crazy out of the realm of reality on this episode. Absorbing a star is stupid as hell. The more I think about it the dumber it is.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on January 07, 2016, 06:57:06 AM
It shouldn't surprise anyone some people hate on the new Star Wars. It's not a perfect movie by any means. All the people I know that "hate" the movie happened to originally have had a rage hard on against JJ for "ruining Star Trek".
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 07, 2016, 07:21:46 AM
I like we have the hide function now we've got a new Isaac though.


People are seriously writing articles saying the science of TFA is wrong? It's the science in Star Wars, it's always been total bullshit you nit picky, whiny assholes.

To be fair, they really went crazy out of the realm of reality on this episode. Absorbing a star is stupid as hell. The more I think about it the dumber it is.

Yes, moisture farming on a desert planet, armour that doesn't shiild you, wonky-legged tank thingys, no guardrails in your space station where lazers go right past the guys firing it, etc, etc

No, a lazer using the power of a sun is clearly where to draw the line
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 07, 2016, 07:25:13 AM
To be fair, it's a bit better than a similar EU idea.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 07, 2016, 07:56:27 AM
Yes, moisture farming on a desert planet

That part actually does make sense, given the colour of the sky there is actually moisture to be found on that planet, kinda like how Arrakis has a polar cap. Desserts in general have moisture.

The thing is, if you're older than about 15 and unreservedly love any movie, you're perhaps a wee bit too uncritical in your appreciation of things. But finding niggles shouldn't cause the whole thing to be ruined for you. That goes o the whole suspension of disbelief thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 07, 2016, 09:57:14 AM
The thing is, if you're older than about 15 and unreservedly love any movie, you're perhaps a wee bit too uncritical in your appreciation of things. But finding niggles shouldn't cause the whole thing to be ruined for you. That goes o the whole suspension of disbelief thing.

Déjà vu, and here I thought we were done with the suspension of disbelief topic....

It is possible to have a few complaints about something and still like it.  Movies are like people, not one is perfect, blindly ignoring any flaws is just as unhealthy as obsessing over them.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 07, 2016, 10:22:45 AM
I like we have the hide function now we've got a new Isaac though.


People are seriously writing articles saying the science of TFA is wrong? It's the science in Star Wars, it's always been total bullshit you nit picky, whiny assholes.

To be fair, they really went crazy out of the realm of reality on this episode. Absorbing a star is stupid as hell. The more I think about it the dumber it is.

Yes, moisture farming on a desert planet, armour that doesn't shiild you, wonky-legged tank thingys, no guardrails in your space station where lazers go right past the guys firing it, etc, etc

No, a lazer using the power of a sun is clearly where to draw the line

Moisture farming makes sense, though. You'd have to do something to gather up as much moisture as you could, and presumably, it'd involve taking moisture out of the air. Armor that doesn't fully shield is actually a reasonable thing; a lot of medieval armors, chainmail for instance, are vulnerable to piercing attacks, like arrows. I can understand that it'd be difficult to fully make a soldier impervious to damage and let them still have good mobility, especially against an energy based weapon or attack. I'll accept the fact that no guardrail is a poor design choice, but that kind of thing happens all the time. Not to mention, the Empire tends to consider it's troops non essential and expendable, so why worry about a thing like safety on a super weapon?

Also, you can only fire Starkiller ONCE if you're in a normal one star system. It seems like something the US government would build, since it would be a colossal waste of money and resources for a one shot attack.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 07, 2016, 10:26:46 AM
The thing is, if you're older than about 15 and unreservedly love any movie, you're perhaps a wee bit too uncritical in your appreciation of things. But finding niggles shouldn't cause the whole thing to be ruined for you. That goes o the whole suspension of disbelief thing.

Déjà vu, and here I thought we were done with the suspension of disbelief topic....

It is possible to have a few complaints about something and still like it.  Movies are like people, not one is perfect, blindly ignoring any flaws is just as unhealthy as obsessing over them.
Exactly. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Johnny Unusual on January 07, 2016, 10:39:01 AM
I can't imagine anyone who would find Jaws doesn't work for them because you can't actually explode a shark like that.  As long as the internal logic of the movie works, it's fine.  And heck, there are some times when even when the internal logic is broken it still works or can even be improved (when done right, of course).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 07, 2016, 10:57:06 AM
And now, to honor what I said earlier, a quibble I had with Jaws. Brody's taste in wine is shit.

Or was that stuff brought by Hooper (I might be confusing the wine purchases with The Goodbye Girl now)

Anyway, terrible wine!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 07, 2016, 11:13:41 AM
And now, to honor what I said earlier, a quibble I had with Jaws. Brody's taste in wine is shit.

Or was that stuff brought by Hooper (I might be confusing the wine purchases with The Goodbye Girl now)

Anyway, terrible wine!
I think the wine was brought by Hooper. Which doesn't make it any better because he is established as being wealthy and educated, so you'd think he'd know about wine.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 07, 2016, 11:16:09 AM
This is a bit of a continuation of an earlier post I made, and I hope it finally puts a lot of certain opinions to rest. I can look past scientific impossibilities in movies, just as long as I care about the characters in the stories of our films. Look at it this way: It's kind of like someone you love and they firmly believe in God. Do you stop loving them(or worse yet, do you hate them, belittle or degrade them) just because you have very opposing, conflicting ideas about the nature of the universe?  Of course not, and you don't continuously call them out for their beliefs because it's a very personal, very important thing that somehow helps them. Am I saying Star Wars is like a religion? Maybe, but I think it's more accurate to say that the force is more of a religion than anything else. My point is this: Star Wars is a science fantasy epic that has always mingled two very obvious things together: science and fantasy... the later undeniably much more heavily than the former. So don't be surprised if something exceeds the realm of the scientifically plausible.

So I'm delicately trying to say... TFA gave me a great story with new characters I can love and care about again. If that's not enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 07, 2016, 11:42:11 AM
Considering the science fiction of Star Wars is completely separate from discussions about the Force.
I think we're more willing to accept scientific impossibilities because it is clearly VERY advanced technologically relative to us.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 07, 2016, 12:21:51 PM
Thing is Star Wars is a fantasy movie with technological trappings.

Might as well talk about how the Eye of Sauron doesn't work with any laws of science applicable to telecommunication.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 07, 2016, 12:22:37 PM
Though I will say contemplating the budget meeting for the Star Killer has fun potential.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on January 07, 2016, 12:52:26 PM
I keep hearing people say the Starkiller was "one-shot."  Was that a book-only thing or did they say that in the movie?  I don't recall it moving after it fired the first time, I assumed that it drew power to fire from the star that it orbited, but didn't drain the whole thing with one shot.

If we're breaking it down into weird "magic works because THIS" thing, I could understand it if say
1.) You have techno-babble ammo and "load her up" before each shot.
2.) Then you drain some (but not all) plasma from the nearby star.  This "charges" the  weapon with power to shoot the techno-babble ammo.
3.) Ammo is rare and expensive, star-draining takes a long time but...makes a good excuse for matching the impression I got from the movie.

Oh, forgot to add:  Ammo is delicate enough that one old human, one old wookie, a "not even a jedi yet" jedi, and a bumbling stormtrooper can blow up a planet with a satchel charge while never being bothered by a planet's worth of stormtroopers.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 07, 2016, 12:57:57 PM
Though I will say contemplating the budget meeting for the Star Killer has fun potential.

Yeah, the massive fleet of ships they could have built instead of hollowing out a planet would have been enough to overwhelm any opponent....

But it is somewhat realistic, historically there have been many despots that squander resources on super-weapons.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on January 07, 2016, 01:06:27 PM
Cracked has numerous examples.  A search of "Weapons of War" on there will bring up at least 20 articles about hilariously stupid (and real) weapons that were built for awe-inspiring purposes, but proved to be some of the stupidest, most pointless things money was ever wasted on.

EDIT: The one in particular I was thinking of was the 2B1 Oka Nuclear Cannon developed by Soviet Russia.  The thing was a copy of the U.S. M-65, with the unfortunate side effect of destroying itself after firing a shot.  There's actually also an article called "5 Real-Life Death Stars," which I didn't know about until today, that actually does have numerous weapons/fortress defeated by a single, stupid oversight.  Like the rest of the early days of Cracked, they are addictive and thought-provoking history lessons...and funny as hell.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 07, 2016, 01:07:51 PM
Working in an institution the meetings would have to be hilarious as the representatives of the fleet and other stake holders passive aggressively snipe at each other while being unable to prevent the green lighting of the base...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 07, 2016, 01:23:17 PM
So I'm delicately trying to say... TFA gave me a great story with new characters I can love and care about again. If that's not enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you.

If we ever get a Rifftrax of TFA will you avoid it?  There would be jokes pointing out all it's flaws.

How can you really enjoy something without thinking about it?  And when you think about stuff you reveal the greatness and also any flaws.  Even for movies I love and have watched dozens of times I can point to moments that I wish were not there or could have been better, doesn't mean I won't watch those movies many more times in the future and enjoy the heck out of them each time.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 07, 2016, 01:39:09 PM
So I'm delicately trying to say... TFA gave me a great story with new characters I can love and care about again. If that's not enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you.

If we ever get a Rifftrax of TFA will you avoid it?  There would be jokes pointing out all it's flaws.

How can you really enjoy something without thinking about it?  And when you think about stuff you reveal the greatness and also any flaws.  Even for movies I love and have watched dozens of times I can point to moments that I wish were not there or could have been better, doesn't mean I won't watch those movies many more times in the future and enjoy the heck out of them each time.
It doesn't mean that he doesn't think about it. It just means that what flaws he sees aren't deal breakers to him.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 07, 2016, 01:56:26 PM
If we ever get a Rifftrax of TFA
I think that's a given.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: k1 on January 07, 2016, 03:03:02 PM
Woohoo! Finally saw it today! Now I can visit this thread!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on January 07, 2016, 03:34:46 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/jCbawSH.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 07, 2016, 03:50:03 PM
So I'm delicately trying to say... TFA gave me a great story with new characters I can love and care about again. If that's not enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you.

If we ever get a Rifftrax of TFA will you avoid it?  There would be jokes pointing out all it's flaws.

How can you really enjoy something without thinking about it?  And when you think about stuff you reveal the greatness and also any flaws.  Even for movies I love and have watched dozens of times I can point to moments that I wish were not there or could have been better, doesn't mean I won't watch those movies many more times in the future and enjoy the heck out of them each time.
It doesn't mean that he doesn't think about it. It just means that what flaws he sees aren't deal breakers to him.



Yeah, sorry, I think I was thinking more of ScottotD said, if someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson wants to have some fun and educate people by pointing out how much energy a star has and how it would vaporize that planet to try and store it all I don't think he should be called a nit picky, whiny asshole....



Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 07, 2016, 04:05:33 PM
Thing is Star Wars is a fantasy movie with technological trappings.

Might as well talk about how the Eye of Sauron doesn't work with any laws of science applicable to telecommunication.

They also didn't try to explain how it worked using technology, the way they did in TFA.

I didn't actually hate the movie. I think it's better than AOTC or TPM.  I just don't think it's much better.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: k1 on January 07, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Now that my brain is numb from reading/skimming all 28 pages of this thread to make sure I'm not repeating someone...

I kind of felt like Han knew what was going to happen based on the "I know what I need to do but I need your help" (or whatever it was) back & forth on the bridge with RenBen.  Almost like there's a plan for him to go through with killing him so that he can eventually train with the Big Bad and then eventually turn on him Vader style & save Rey in a final battle down the line.  Cuz then he can be JUST LIKE DARTH VADER and won't be all emo anymore!  :D




Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 07, 2016, 05:06:56 PM
So I'm delicately trying to say... TFA gave me a great story with new characters I can love and care about again. If that's not enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you.

If we ever get a Rifftrax of TFA will you avoid it?  There would be jokes pointing out all it's flaws.

How can you really enjoy something without thinking about it?  And when you think about stuff you reveal the greatness and also any flaws.  Even for movies I love and have watched dozens of times I can point to moments that I wish were not there or could have been better, doesn't mean I won't watch those movies many more times in the future and enjoy the heck out of them each time.
It doesn't mean that he doesn't think about it. It just means that what flaws he sees aren't deal breakers to him.



Yeah, sorry, I think I was thinking more of ScottotD said, if someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson wants to have some fun and educate people by pointing out how much energy a star has and how it would vaporize that planet to try and store it all I don't think he should be called a nit picky, whiny asshole....

I wasn't calling him one, it was more people trying to justify their pre-release dismissal of it, etc by basically yelling "Ugh, Starkiller?! see I told you it would be dumb! Stop enjoying it everyone!"

I can't imagine anyone who would find Jaws doesn't work for them because you can't actually explode a shark like that.  As long as the internal logic of the movie works, it's fine.  And heck, there are some times when even when the internal logic is broken it still works or can even be improved (when done right, of course).

Eeeeeeeeeeexactly. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 07, 2016, 11:10:19 PM
OK, I've seen it now. Someone recap this thread for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 07, 2016, 11:34:08 PM
80% - It was fun and I enjoyed it or higher

10% - meh

10% - JAR JAR ABRAMS IS THE DEVIL! WAAAH!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on January 08, 2016, 05:40:56 AM
One of the best things I can say about "Force Awakens" is that the characters actually behave like recognizable flesh-and-blood human beings, as opposed to mannequin-like creatures dully reciting lines from a script.

Seriously, you could be more emotive than a Kabuki actor on the set, and George Lucas would still find a way to make your performance look drained and listless in the final product.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 08, 2016, 06:19:43 AM
There's a rumor floating around that the "Traitor!" stormtrooper was originally supposed to be Phasma, but I can't find anything to prove or disprove this.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 08, 2016, 06:21:09 AM
It would have made more sense for that to be the case, I assumed there were scheduling problems when that scene was filmed.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 08, 2016, 07:45:52 AM
80% - It was fun and I enjoyed it or higher

10% - meh

10% - JAR JAR ABRAMS IS THE DEVIL! WAAAH!
I think it's more 60% OMG IT WAS AMAZING and 40% it was ok. Even Imrahil thought it was ok. He just didn't like it as much as everyone's hype tried to make him. Also he felt that killing Han like that was bullshit, which is fair.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 08, 2016, 08:33:38 AM
(http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ao99GMA_460sa.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: k1 on January 08, 2016, 09:45:52 AM
There's a rumor floating around that the "Traitor!" stormtrooper was originally supposed to be Phasma, but I can't find anything to prove or disprove this.

I believe it's a trooper named "Nines" that was in Fin's squad.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 08, 2016, 09:51:27 AM
Yes, now, but when the script was being written....
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 08, 2016, 09:56:44 AM
(http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ao99GMA_460sa.gif)
:clap: :clap: Now I just want to see someone take the clip of Kylo Ren destroying the control panel and dub over it with Donald Duck having a tantrum.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 08, 2016, 10:03:02 AM
Apparently, Boyega was also a stock image model.
(http://i.imgur.com/0oyJT9s.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on January 08, 2016, 10:17:43 AM
That's a tough gig to work in.  One day, you're sitting around, getting pictures taken for a "Our Campus is the Best!" photo shoot, then the next day you find out your headshot is being used to advertise for wart cream across the country.  And now that you're in Star Wars, everyone asks, "So...did that cream actually work?" ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 08, 2016, 10:22:48 AM
I was going to say "That's not Peckham" but holy fuck, there's Canary Warf right in the background! They've cleaned the place up a bit since I was last there.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 08, 2016, 12:05:20 PM
Everyone talks about Kylo Ren throwing a tantrum.... you know... sometimes when you're majorly pissed off, you just have to break stuff. It's certainly more productive than killing your officers.

I'd like to think there was a conversation before episode VII that happened, and it goes something like this:
"Okay... if you're gonna be like... you know, the new boss man sith dude with a mask, you can't be killing our Fleet Officers all willy nilly like Darth Vader did."
"Awwww... not even one? Well, who should I kill instead?"
"NOBODY!! Just... break something, okay? Just don't kill anybody! The Empire was demoralized enough as it is."
"Alright, I'll just break stuff instead."
"Thank you. Just Remember Kylo... shit can be replaced, officers of the First Order cannot."

This would also explain why Hux has no problems challenging Ren's authority.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on January 08, 2016, 12:14:07 PM
Everyone talks about Kylo Ren throwing a tantrum.... you know... sometimes when you're majorly pissed off, you just have to break stuff. It's certainly more productive than killing your officers.

I'd like to think there was a conversation before episode VII that happened, and it goes something like this:
"Okay... if you're gonna be like... you know, the new boss man sith dude with a mask, you can't be killing our Fleet Officers all willy nilly like Darth Vader did."
"Awwww... not even one? Well, who should I kill instead?"
"NOBODY!! Just... break something, okay? Just don't kill anybody! The Empire was demoralized enough as it is."
"Alright, I'll just break stuff instead."
"Thank you. Just Remember Kylo... shit can be replaced, officers of the First Order cannot."

This would also explain why Hux has no problems challenging Ren's authority.

That's a cool way to think about it. I love the sibling Rivalry between the two. I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out. You have to admit, Vader never had to compete for the Emperor's attention, he would just kill them.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 08, 2016, 12:54:48 PM
Everyone talks about Kylo Ren throwing a tantrum.... you know... sometimes when you're majorly pissed off, you just have to break stuff. It's certainly more productive than killing your officers.

I'd like to think there was a conversation before episode VII that happened, and it goes something like this:
"Okay... if you're gonna be like... you know, the new boss man sith dude with a mask, you can't be killing our Fleet Officers all willy nilly like Darth Vader did."
"Awwww... not even one? Well, who should I kill instead?"
"NOBODY!! Just... break something, okay? Just don't kill anybody! The Empire was demoralized enough as it is."
"Alright, I'll just break stuff instead."
"Thank you. Just Remember Kylo... shit can be replaced, officers of the First Order cannot."

This would also explain why Hux has no problems challenging Ren's authority.

That's a cool way to think about it. I love the sibling Rivalry between the two. I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out. You have to admit, Vader never had to compete for the Emperor's attention, he would just kill them.
In ANH Vader was a subordinate of Grand Moff Tarkin.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on January 08, 2016, 01:02:54 PM
You know, while I knew that, it just now struck me how funny that is.

"Rise, my apprentice.  You are now Darth Vader.  You shall learn a great deal from me, and together we will rule this galaxy."

"What is thy bidding, Master?"

"Well, first, this is Admiral Tarkin.  He's going to be your supervisor for a bit.  If you need anything from me, let him know, and I'll get to it as soon as I can.  Now, if you'll excuse me, I just realized being Emperor has a LOT of paperwork filing to do...Tarkin will show you where the Executive Bathroom is and the troops that'll be under your command.  Oh, and don't give him any lip.  If I find out, it's going to reflect poorly on your mid-year review."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 08, 2016, 01:19:23 PM
Just because he's a Sith Lord that doesn't make him a good business manager. Maybe Vader force choked a bunch of people and he got demoted?
But I do agree with you, it did seem a little odd it retrospect to see him taking orders from Tarkin who outright mocks the usefulness of The Force.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 08, 2016, 01:22:38 PM
And here he is being used for a Nebraska college.  Probably same photo shoot.
(http://i.imgur.com/Wgux2KK.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 08, 2016, 01:37:30 PM
It would have made more sense for that to be the case, I assumed there were scheduling problems when that scene was filmed.

Why wouldn't they have just put someone else in the costume?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: anais.butterfly on January 08, 2016, 02:23:54 PM
Everyone talks about Kylo Ren throwing a tantrum.... you know... sometimes when you're majorly pissed off, you just have to break stuff. It's certainly more productive than killing your officers.

I'd like to think there was a conversation before episode VII that happened, and it goes something like this:
"Okay... if you're gonna be like... you know, the new boss man sith dude with a mask, you can't be killing our Fleet Officers all willy nilly like Darth Vader did."
"Awwww... not even one? Well, who should I kill instead?"
"NOBODY!! Just... break something, okay? Just don't kill anybody! The Empire was demoralized enough as it is."
"Alright, I'll just break stuff instead."
"Thank you. Just Remember Kylo... shit can be replaced, officers of the First Order cannot."

This would also explain why Hux has no problems challenging Ren's authority.

That's a cool way to think about it. I love the sibling Rivalry between the two. I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out. You have to admit, Vader never had to compete for the Emperor's attention, he would just kill them.
In ANH Vader was a subordinate of Grand Moff Tarkin.

Subordinate isn't sibling rivalry. Miff dies, Vader has no competition.... that only child. He didn't even have to compete with other Jedi in Jedi school, having obi-wan all to himself.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: k1 on January 08, 2016, 02:24:59 PM
Interesting (but I doubt it) theory on Snoke:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Variety of Cells on January 08, 2016, 02:55:37 PM
Interesting (but I doubt it) theory on Snoke:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Eehh. Why would he worship the helmet then?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: k1 on January 08, 2016, 03:38:31 PM
Interesting (but I doubt it) theory on Snoke:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Eehh. Why would he worship the helmet then?

You're just a stupid old person! You wouldn't understand! *throws tantrum & storms off to cry*

Stupid emo kids...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: k1 on January 08, 2016, 03:39:44 PM
But yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not him.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 08, 2016, 03:57:28 PM
Eehh. Why would he worship the helmet then?
It's symbolic... maybe even symbiotic(For both Vader and Kylo Ren)? The identity of some villains and characters in Star Wars is less the person and more the helmet/outfit, kind of like the Dread Pirate Roberts. It's like what Ben did when he took on the identity of Kylo Ren. Putting on the mask means he is above morality, powerful enough that he answers to nobody but Snoke. There is no more love, compassion or family, there's just the inner selfish desires that are sort of diverted towards the goal of controlling others under threat of death.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 08, 2016, 04:41:19 PM
Andy Serkis weighed in on the idea that Snoke was Plagueis, and quashed that theory. He also stated that it was "Someone we hadn't seen before", so it won't be Vader. I'm disappointed that it's not Plagueis, after all, I'd love to see him plotting his revenge against Palpatine by being better at the Empire than he was.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 08, 2016, 04:49:53 PM
Interesting (but I doubt it) theory on Snoke:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Eehh. Why would he worship the helmet then?

Snoke didn't worship the helmet, and Kylo doesn't necessarily know, right?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 08, 2016, 04:55:35 PM
Just because he's a Sith Lord that doesn't make him a good business manager. Maybe Vader force choked a bunch of people and he got demoted?
But I do agree with you, it did seem a little odd it retrospect to see him taking orders from Tarkin who outright mocks the usefulness of The Force.

In the new comics, the Emperor is super pissed about the Death Star's loss and takes it out on Vader by making him Tagge's servant boy for awhile.

You can almost hear him going "What the hell's an Aluminum Falcon?"
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Compound on January 08, 2016, 05:27:21 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYOolI5UMAA5DP2.jpg)

Side note- I heard some legitimate Ep 8 spoilers earlier today, but since this is the ep 7 spoiler thread, I'll not put them here.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: d00hickey on January 09, 2016, 02:02:47 AM
Andy Serkis weighed in on the idea that Snoke was Plagueis, and quashed that theory. He also stated that it was "Someone we hadn't seen before", so it won't be Vader. I'm disappointed that it's not Plagueis, after all, I'd love to see him plotting his revenge against Palpatine by being better at the Empire than he was.

Andy Serkis and JJ abrams also said Snoke had to be CGI because it literally could not be done practically in a way that suited the aesthetic of the film. That implies to me that he will either be giant or small, or maybe an AI or something.

Doohickey's crazy Star Wars conspiracy of the day;

Maybe Snoke is an AI created by the first order to seduce Kylo Ren and other force sensies to the Dark Side. It's heavily implied that ALL Jedi and Sith are gone by the end of Jedi (Luke not withstanding obviously). Would a convincing, huminoid AI be outside the realm of possibility in the Star Wars universe?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on January 09, 2016, 08:20:07 AM
Andy Serkis weighed in on the idea that Snoke was Plagueis, and quashed that theory. He also stated that it was "Someone we hadn't seen before", so it won't be Vader. I'm disappointed that it's not Plagueis, after all, I'd love to see him plotting his revenge against Palpatine by being better at the Empire than he was.

Simon Pegg also denied Khan was in "Star Trek: Into Darkness." Fast-forward to May 16, 2013, and doodly doodly doop...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on January 09, 2016, 09:09:37 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYOolI5UMAA5DP2.jpg)

Well, that explains everything.  Ren's so mad because her parents dared to give him the raspberry.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 09, 2016, 09:40:38 AM
People desperately looking for holes #2:

Ren's a weak villain because he was almost beaten by Rey (after being shot by the lazer shotgun that is the Bowcaster but apparently that's not relevant) despite the fact Vader had trouble with Luke TWICE and lost the second time even though he'd been a studying the force for about 30 years to Luke's 4 or so. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on January 09, 2016, 11:03:41 AM
People desperately looking for holes #2:

Ren's a weak villain because he was almost beaten by Rey (after being shot by the lazer shotgun that is the Bowcaster but apparently that's not relevant) despite the fact Vader had trouble with Luke TWICE and lost the second time even though he'd been a studying the force for about 30 years to Luke's 4 or so.

The only part of your point I disagree with was Vader having trouble with Luke twice. In Empire I always thought it seemed Vader had the fight in hand 90 percent of the time but held back to try and tempt Luke instead of destroy him.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 09, 2016, 11:57:57 AM
People desperately looking for holes #2:

Ren's a weak villain because he was almost beaten by Rey (after being shot by the lazer shotgun that is the Bowcaster but apparently that's not relevant) despite the fact Vader had trouble with Luke TWICE and lost the second time even though he'd been a studying the force for about 30 years to Luke's 4 or so.

The only part of your point I disagree with was Vader having trouble with Luke twice. In Empire I always thought it seemed Vader had the fight in hand 90 percent of the time but held back to try and tempt Luke instead of destroy him.

Agreed. But Star Wars has this really weird thing going on where in the prequels, Anakin had years of training. Luke had a few weeks, and then Rey beats Ren the first time she uses the damn glow stick. Vaders loss to Luke can also be explained by the fact that he really was torn by having to kill his son. (Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 09, 2016, 01:13:37 PM
Rey also has had melee weapon experience, though, with her staff.  She does seem to still need practice with it.  Ren did get emotional before the deed and hesitated after (which gave Chewie time to fire at him).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 09, 2016, 01:41:07 PM
Rey also has had melee weapon experience, though, with her staff.  She does seem to still need practice with it.  Ren did get emotional before the deed and hesitated after (which gave Chewie time to fire at him).
Any martial artist will tell you that there's a massive difference between a staff and a sword. All of Ren's "emotion" before can be viewed as an attempt to fake out Han and the audience into thinking Han wouldn't die, not actual emotion. Maybe afterwards it was real, but it just makes him more one dimensional as a villain in my opinion. For someone who wants to be like grandpa, he shouldn't have those kinds of feelings. Anakin choked out his pregnant wife when he thought she was turning from him. Maybe you can view it as "Ren will turn", but that makes him LESS threatening. With Vader, you weren't sure that he would turn. You wanted him to, but there was no guarantee. They didn't add that doubt until the last 30 of Jedi. Ren is a crybaby emo brat. He takes after Luke, as far as the whiny goes.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 09, 2016, 02:27:50 PM
True, which is why her technique wasn't all that great.  The thing, though, is that Ren doesn't actually know what Vader was like.  He only thinks he does.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 09, 2016, 02:33:39 PM
(Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)

"I don't know if I'm strong enough to do what I have to do, will you help me?" Was him having at least one qualm, wasn't it?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 09, 2016, 02:37:10 PM
Short-tempered, sure, but I wouldn't call him emo.  He seems like what Vader would have been like if he hadn't mellowed out and been under the direction of Palpatine.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 09, 2016, 04:21:32 PM
(Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)

"I don't know if I'm strong enough to do what I have to do, will you help me?" Was him having at least one qualm, wasn't it?
I understood that as "Hey dad, I need your help in something", and that something was stabby stab stab related. Han took it as "Mah boy needs meh".
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 09, 2016, 04:24:00 PM
It would have made more sense for that to be the case, I assumed there were scheduling problems when that scene was filmed.

Why wouldn't they have just put someone else in the costume?
Possible contract reason would be my guess.

True, which is why her technique wasn't all that great.  The thing, though, is that Ren doesn't actually know what Vader was like.  He only thinks he does.
Yeah, at the earliest he was conceived on the jaunt from the Sarlac Pit to the briefing about Endor; I'd actually like to see or read an account of how he first hears about Vader.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 09, 2016, 04:41:59 PM
People desperately looking for holes #2:

Ren's a weak villain because he was almost beaten by Rey (after being shot by the lazer shotgun that is the Bowcaster but apparently that's not relevant) despite the fact Vader had trouble with Luke TWICE and lost the second time even though he'd been a studying the force for about 30 years to Luke's 4 or so.

The only part of your point I disagree with was Vader having trouble with Luke twice. In Empire I always thought it seemed Vader had the fight in hand 90 percent of the time but held back to try and tempt Luke instead of destroy him.

Definitely true. He does most of the duel one handed. Luke actually manages to get a hit in, Vader gets pissed, two hands, and then bam, one hand (for Luke).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 09, 2016, 04:45:45 PM
(Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)

"I don't know if I'm strong enough to do what I have to do, will you help me?" Was him having at least one qualm, wasn't it?
I understood that as "Hey dad, I need your help in something", and that something was stabby stab stab related. Han took it as "Mah boy needs meh".

Yeah, that something was killing his dad, but he was saying he was conflicted, at least a little. Not that he wasn't strong enough to get a lightsaber though him.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 09, 2016, 04:50:13 PM
It would have made more sense for that to be the case, I assumed there were scheduling problems when that scene was filmed.

Why wouldn't they have just put someone else in the costume?
Possible contract reason would be my guess.

That would be a weird contract that, like, excludes stunt doubles?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 09, 2016, 05:37:56 PM
I don't know, I just think the placing of Phasma in that scene seems to make sense enough that it's conceivable that was the original intent. It would have fit with her recognizing Finn, and given the character a longer bit of screen time.

I mean they've given TR-8R a back story now, which is fine, but it seems like that wasn't the original intent when that scene was born.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 09, 2016, 06:03:35 PM
Well, my theory is: it's another distinct toy to produce. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 09, 2016, 06:35:55 PM
Almost certainly that was a factor too.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 09, 2016, 06:43:25 PM
Kylo Ren also has insight, and maybe even some hint of understanding, and it was something very simple. That look he gave FN-2187 in the village. That look said SO much more than words ever could.

First time killing? Weren't able to do it huh? Don't worry, you will, one day.
But that's not even all of it. It was a moment of clarity. Maybe like Vader with Piett, Kylo saw something in Finn, some admirable quality, and maybe even pity, what with the blood stain on his mask.

Kylo Ren even knew who it was who helped Poe escape. Do I really have to mention his reflexes again? Freezing a laser blast in place even when he's barely paying it any mind? I don't remember Anakin doing anything nearly as awesome as that.

Here's the biggest difference though... Kylo Ren is a little more reserved. His emotional outbursts only happen rarely and when they do, they last for very brief periods of time.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 09, 2016, 07:23:38 PM
Kylo Ren also has insight, and maybe even some hint of understanding, and it was something very simple. That look he gave FN-2187 in the village. That look said SO much more than words ever could.

First time killing? Weren't able to do it huh? Don't worry, you will, one day.
But that's not even all of it. It was a moment of clarity. Maybe like Vader with Piett, Kylo saw something in Finn, some admirable quality, and maybe even pity, what with the blood stain on his mask.

Kylo Ren even knew who it was who helped Poe escape. Do I really have to mention his reflexes again? Freezing a laser blast in place even when he's barely paying it any mind? I don't remember Anakin doing anything nearly as awesome as that.

Here's the biggest difference though... Kylo Ren is a little more reserved. His emotional outbursts only happen rarely and when they do, they last for very brief periods of time.
dude, half the movie was a Kylo temper tantrum. Every scene he was in ended with him breaking something.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 09, 2016, 07:37:32 PM
I don't get why people are complaining so much about Kylo Ren being so prone to irrational outbursts. That just makes him MORE dangerous! And if he didn't have the flaws, if he was the cool collected master of The Force, then he would be just like Vader. People keep complaining about how much this movie is like the ANH and ESB, but then they complain that Ren is a huge departure?
By making him this way it gives the villain an arc, and a motive other than "I want to take over the world galaxy."

The only issue that I have with it is wondering why Snoke would have stopped the training so early and let Kylo Ren go out in the field. It didn't seem like the First Order really needed him with what they were doing, just finding the map and readying the Starkiller weapon.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 09, 2016, 07:59:29 PM
No! He's emo and so dumb compared to the incredibly restrained Vader who choked random guys.

I'm glad we're all agreed Into Darkness is massively underrated though
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on January 09, 2016, 08:48:00 PM
(Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)

"I don't know if I'm strong enough to do what I have to do, will you help me?" Was him having at least one qualm, wasn't it?

Indeed.

And, uh, before I begin, can I just say how good it feels to want to argue FOR Star Wars again?

LC, I don't know where to begin with disagreeing with you, but this point is as good as any I suppose. He definitely had qualms. Snoke himself knew how tough it was going to be for him to go through with killing his father. He ignored Ren's arrogance and seemed to place the act on a pedestal, he called it something that would test "even the Master of the Knights of Ren", buttering him up and stroking his ego while warning him that he would be tempted to spare him and that if he succeeded at it he would have completed his initation. He also clearly had qualms about killing Rey. "WHAT GIRL?" the tacit implication is "Is it Rey? The girl I let get away?" ...Why did he let her get away? (I'm predicting your initial response to that will be "because sequel".) Being left to ponder that question is one of the things I found so compelling about Ren/Rey. That question alone would have had me lining up to see VIII all on its own.

To comment on a previous post about the "first time she picked up a glowstick": We don't know that and even if that is true, she has combat experience(You say a staff and a sword or two different things. Sure, I guess that is why she held the saber like a staff when she started winning.) and clearly has strong, natural, Force related intuition and is poised to finally "bring balance to the Force". All she had to do to win that fight was go Zen and connect with the Force. All of this is right there in the film, I'm not having to imagine much. I would also like to mention that bit of dialogue where Ren, post-interrogation of Rey, is quite frustrated(frightened even), as he explains to Snoke that she is a natural, a raw talent with incredible potential and that she resisted his abilities.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 09, 2016, 08:51:44 PM
Well said.

It's weird how desperate people are to try and find faults with the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 09, 2016, 08:55:39 PM
Refusal to be wrong and trying to convince themselves they didn't have fun
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 09, 2016, 09:11:44 PM
Don't have to be desperate. . .
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 09, 2016, 09:14:09 PM
'Evidence' says otherwise
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 09, 2016, 09:18:03 PM
Well, as someone who didn't like Ant Man, where most everyone else seemed to really enjoy it, I can sympathize a little bit. The problem is in this case that a lot of the people who didn't like Force Awakens seemed to be predisposed against it beforehand.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 09, 2016, 09:27:42 PM
Well, as someone who didn't like Ant Man, where most everyone else seemed to really enjoy it, I can sympathize a little bit. The problem is in this case that a lot of the people who didn't like Force Awakens seemed to be predisposed against it beforehand.
I actually liked it. Don't know why people ignore that. It's possible to find fault in something you like.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 10, 2016, 10:43:21 AM
There's a lot of theories circulating, so I might as well throw my ridiculous theory into the mix.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: k1 on January 10, 2016, 01:00:38 PM
There's a lot of theories circulating, so I might as well throw my ridiculous theory into the mix.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wait! What if it was actually
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 10, 2016, 01:12:48 PM
(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu106/Nicolai1692/12507573_10156298318255417_6810650807830080724_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 10, 2016, 09:16:59 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/4oNKLUd.jpg)

Kylo Ren, Ladies and Gents and Dandruff.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 10, 2016, 09:40:00 PM
Dandruff.

Please don't antagonize him outside of the unmoderated forum.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 11, 2016, 03:50:40 AM
Now that was a damn good panel Tripe. Love it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 11, 2016, 07:28:49 AM
It's good and, while maybe not intended by the writers, something that, if one thinks about it, makes sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 11, 2016, 11:44:54 AM
I'd also like to throw this out there... early on in the film it was established he can easily stop laser shots in mid-air. He either let his guard down too much... indicating he was so profoundly regretful of what he did, or he allowed himself to be shot.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 11, 2016, 12:45:09 PM
I'd also like to throw this out there... early on in the film it was established he can easily stop laser shots in mid-air. He either let his guard down too much... indicating he was so profoundly regretful of what he did, or he allowed himself to be shot.
I got the idea that Ren just got lucky on that. He was stopping Po from moving, and it got the blast as well. I doubt he'd be fast enough to do that, even with Force reflexes. And after killing his father, he certainly was preoccupied.

I love that theory that Chewie had a deep affection for Ren too. It makes his anguished cry even more meaningful. It also means that if he deliberately only wounded Ren, then he is also partly responsible for the deaths Ren will cause later on.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on January 11, 2016, 12:47:25 PM
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/1919138_1220690601275249_2250641929028160467_n.jpg?oh=a344326674ae247637d80020a6a9acc1&oe=57489C32)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on January 11, 2016, 12:50:05 PM
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/1919138_1220690601275249_2250641929028160467_n.jpg?oh=a344326674ae247637d80020a6a9acc1&oe=57489C32)

Ha!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 11, 2016, 01:44:55 PM
I'd also like to throw this out there... early on in the film it was established he can easily stop laser shots in mid-air. He either let his guard down too much... indicating he was so profoundly regretful of what he did, or he allowed himself to be shot.

This is exactly how it goes in the novel, he is deep in thought because he wasn't feeling the way he expected to, he felt weaker instead of stronger,  so he wasn't paying attention to what was going on around him when Chewie shot him.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 11, 2016, 03:32:25 PM
I really need to understand how the Dark side suppresses ones individuality to the point it did with Ren. I think things could get dark... possibly even going so far as introducing concepts like Force Possession. Maybe all Kylo Ren needs is an exorcism, a la King Theoden.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on January 11, 2016, 03:55:30 PM
I think the Force in the future movies should be crazy strong.  Like, there is an awakening, and now even untrained people can do stuff that previously took years of training.  Once Rey is trained, she can do anything like Neo or Mace Windu in the Clone Wars cartoons
(this one: (http://statici.behindthevoiceactors.com/behindthevoiceactors/_img/chars/thumbs/char_13910_thumb.jpg), not this one: (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111198060/4977732-mace+windu.jpg)).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 11, 2016, 04:23:31 PM
Yeah... Mace Windu in the movies wasn't exactly super-powered.

In KOTOR, Jedi Bastila Shan had this thing called "Battle Meditation" that helped maximize the effectiveness of fleet maneuvers and offensives which also minimized casualties.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 11, 2016, 05:06:23 PM
Yeah... Mace Windu in the movies wasn't exactly super-powered.


I wonder if Yoda spent so long training Luke to lift rocks after he saw Jedi so easily restrained by being chained to rocks?  :P
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 11, 2016, 05:23:31 PM
Nice metaphor. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 11, 2016, 05:31:21 PM
I think Mace in the cartoons is actually pretty fuckin' sick. I'm rather enjoying the hell out of the Clone Wars. Ahsoka gets annoying at times, but the Anakin in them does a much better job than Christensen did.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 11, 2016, 06:28:46 PM
I would never criticize the Clone Wars TV series, mostly because I watched very little of them, plus I have only heard good things about it. I've watched some of Rebels, and I've liked that but it doesn't really generate a lot of excitement for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 11, 2016, 10:53:55 PM
I think the Force in the future movies should be crazy strong.  Like, there is an awakening, and now even untrained people can do stuff that previously took years of training.  Once Rey is trained, she can do anything like Neo or Mace Windu in the Clone Wars cartoons
(this one: (http://statici.behindthevoiceactors.com/behindthevoiceactors/_img/chars/thumbs/char_13910_thumb.jpg), not this one: (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111198060/4977732-mace+windu.jpg)).

I see the first Clone Wars cartoon as sort of what uninformed people (in-universe) thought the Clone Wars were like--it's big, over the top, and...well, cartoonish.  TCW (the CG series) is much better, in my opinion. Maybe less stylish, definitely less stylized, but overall much better. It fits with the rest of the universe a lot better too, not such an outlier.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 12, 2016, 12:08:44 AM
Just avoid the animated Clone Wars film. Not much good in that one.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 12, 2016, 06:13:43 AM
I like the first series because it gave Grievous development the movie didn't 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on January 12, 2016, 12:32:11 PM
I think what the Clone Wars CG cartoons proved overall was that people outside of Lucas could handle the property well and make it well-rounded with good characterization, but still exciting and action-packed.  It certainly goes a long way to making the main cast much more believable, and of anything involving the prequels, it's the best thing to come out of them.

But like Red Dwarf, you kind of have to grit your teeth to get through the movie and about half of the first season (or season 2, for some).  The animation (especially the lighting) got much more polished, and the writers seemed to get into a groove they never really left.

As for the original Clone Wars mini-series...yeah, they're not very deep, but damn is it entertaining.  I just wish they were available in hard copy on HD.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: k1 on January 12, 2016, 01:09:00 PM
I think what the Clone Wars CG cartoons proved overall was that people outside of Lucas could handle the property well and make it well-rounded with good characterization, but still exciting and action-packed.  It certainly goes a long way to making the main cast much more believable, and of anything involving the prequels, it's the best thing to come out of them.

But like Red Dwarf, you kind of have to grit your teeth to get through the movie and about half of the first season (or season 2, for some).  The animation (especially the lighting) got much more polished, and the writers seemed to get into a groove they never really left.

As for the original Clone Wars mini-series...yeah, they're not very deep, but damn is it entertaining.  I just wish they were available in hard copy on HD.

They did a really in depth breakdown of the Clone Wars mini series on the Hitting Play podcast I occasionally guest spot on.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 14, 2016, 02:51:38 PM
Also, I like the first 2 seasons of red dwarf.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 14, 2016, 03:02:40 PM
I didn't even know they made an animated series of Red Dwarf, guess I'll have to see if that is streaming anywhere...

OK, never mind, I assumed since the other shows being talked about were animated there was an animated Red Dwarf but I guess there isn't.  How can anyone not like the first 2 seasons of Red Dwarf?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 14, 2016, 05:32:47 PM
https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/676904272634728448
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 14, 2016, 05:46:26 PM
https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/676904272634728448

That is hilarious.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Parker_Hylton on January 17, 2016, 10:20:45 AM
So...I watch "Undercover boss" reruns all the time.  I also watch SNL on the rare occasion they have reruns early enough before I go to bed. I think this is a good a place as any to post this special edition of SNL's "Undercover boss":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOSCASqLsE
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: CJones on January 17, 2016, 06:32:54 PM
Finally got around to seeing this today. Good movie, if maybe overly derivative of the original.

One thing I didn't understand though: Starkiller base draws it's power from a star, but they had already fired it once earlier in the movie. Why was there still a star there for it to fire a second time? Did they move the entire planet to another star? That seems highly impractical, plus it kinda defeats the purpose of having a hyperspace weapon.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 17, 2016, 06:40:55 PM
Finally got around to seeing this today. Good movie, if maybe overly derivative of the original.

One thing I didn't understand though: Starkiller base draws it's power from a star, but they had already fired it once earlier in the movie. Why was there still a star there for it to fire a second time? Did the move the entire planet to another star? That seems highly impractical, plus it kinda defeats the purpose of having a hyperspace weapon.
I figured that they did move it. Maybe there would be some of the power from the star left after it fired, and they would use that in order to move.

As for why they would turn a planet into a navigable starship?

(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17pgzux2jw6bzjpg/original.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 17, 2016, 07:00:16 PM
If they moved it Finn wouldn't have known where it was...

I had the same complaint about reloading after the first viewing, seems like ages ago but it's only been about a month.....

In the novel the weapon draws dark energy from the star, it didn't drain the star completely as it appears to in the movie.  I can't remember if the star went dark in the novel and if there was an explanation of that.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 17, 2016, 07:40:51 PM
If they moved it Finn wouldn't have known where it was...

Huh, hadn't thought of that. Good point. So maybe they can move it (since they'd have to after finishing draining the energy from that star), but it's not "one star, one shot".

Personally, I thought it was stupid that when the Starkiller imploded it then became another star the same size as the planet. But that's a reeeeally minor nitpick.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on January 18, 2016, 08:44:33 AM
OK, never mind, I assumed since the other shows being talked about were animated there was an animated Red Dwarf but I guess there isn't.  How can anyone not like the first 2 seasons of Red Dwarf?

I'd heard good things about Red Dwarf before I saw it and had heard roughly the same thing about the first two seasons being not quite the quality of the later ones.  It's true, they are well-written, but looking back and knowing the rocky start of the show, it is missing the energy of the later seasons (as well as an audience that actually cared about and laughed at what was going on) and it was REALLY low budget.  It's one of those, "Oh, but they start doing much wackier stuff as it goes on" when the first two seasons are mostly grey interiors.  Also, Kryten.

And I'm not knocking low budget by itself.  Blackadder was higher budget in its first series than the other three put together, practically, but you'd find a lot of people who say the later series still got better.  That's one I tried to get people to watch for years, and there was a lot of reluctance...and then when they finally watched it, they asked me why it took them so long to actually see it.  I see Red Dwarf as similar circumstances, only harder because it IS harder to get into now that TV effects have come a long way.

On a related joke...
"What is it, Lord B?"
"Nothing, Baldrick.  It's just that these bloody First Order people want to build some new superweapon for their grand scheme, and someone's stuck me with having to design it.  If there's one thing that bothers me more than a fascist, it's a fascist who decides I should be in charge of their weapons design team as if I'm not already doing enough."
"Didn't they already run into problems with that march of theirs?"
"What march?"
"You know, that Death Slog."
*sigh*  "STAR, Baldrick.  Death STAR.  It was a bloody great ball that blew up everything it came in contact with.  Sort of like the Queen's last soiree, but with fewer casualties."
"So what do they want now?"
"I don't know.  Everything about them is big, grand, better than before.  Like the Empire, but with more fringes.  And better sharpshooters."
"Why not do another Death Slog, then, but just bigger?"
"...Bigger?"
"Yes.  Just make another ball that blows things up, but just bigger.  Look at it, all lovely and turnip-shaped..."
"Baldrick, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard since a giant, floppy-eared fish monster looked at Senator Palpatine and said, 'here's the keys, do keep her in good condition.'"
"Well, if you did this, you'd be done with your weapon design, wouldn't you?"
"Good point.  Draw some more pointy bits on that Post-It note and leave it on my desk.  Oh, and kick yourself on the way out, I haven't given you one today."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on January 18, 2016, 03:11:48 PM
 :clap: :clap: :clap: Well done. I love Blackadder.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on January 18, 2016, 03:47:45 PM
So noone posted this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/v/FaOSCASqLsE
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MrTorso on January 18, 2016, 03:50:03 PM
So noone posted this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/v/FaOSCASqLsE

Yup. 7 posts above! Just wasn't embedded.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on January 18, 2016, 04:16:04 PM
Ah I missed it because it wasn't embedded.. Sorry bout that  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 18, 2016, 06:07:44 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: Well done. I love Blackadder.

Seconded, that was well-done.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on January 18, 2016, 07:10:47 PM
Ah I missed it because it wasn't embedded.. Sorry bout that  ;D

words are not your forte, huh? :-\
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 21, 2016, 12:41:59 PM
(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu106/Nicolai1692/12508877_10101134607768934_7620517900738789024_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on January 21, 2016, 02:38:02 PM
Okay, so, really dug it. I feel like I've seen it before, but this was a really good version of that.

I'm watching it again.

Jakku? Why this? Did they just not feel like adding the second sun in post or what?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 21, 2016, 04:54:16 PM
I love that it wasn't Tantooine, one of the biggest things that annoy me about the prequels is all the time they spent there. It just makes the universe small
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on January 21, 2016, 05:03:19 PM
Yeah, but like the only difference is that one isn't called Tattoine.

If they wanted to do a new planet, do a new planet, man.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 21, 2016, 05:48:57 PM
I'd have loved to see more planet diversity in the Star Wars Universe. Another Desert planet was pretty boring, I've got to say. What about a civilized Tropical planet, that could be awesome! There's tons of climates that they could choose from, why choose another desert? Oh wait, they wanted to recreate Ep 4 :P
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 21, 2016, 06:04:34 PM
Honestly, if they really wanted to do Tattooine  they probably would have.  At least the other planets were interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 21, 2016, 08:46:51 PM
I'd have loved to see more planet diversity in the Star Wars Universe. Another Desert planet was pretty boring, I've got to say. What about a civilized Tropical planet, that could be awesome! There's tons of climates that they could choose from, why choose another desert? Oh wait, they wanted to recreate Ep 4 :P

...or Jakku is basically supposed to be a trailer park and tropics doesn't instantly say crippling, sparse poverty like a desert does. 

If it was a tropical planet the JJ Isaacs on here would be saying "another planet with one climate, why don't they do something original!? Rant, whine moan"
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on January 22, 2016, 04:27:28 AM
If it was a tropical planet the JJ Isaacs on here would be saying "another planet with one climate, why don't they do something original!? Rant, whine moan"

to be fair, this is the reaction of internet people elicited by any choice in any movie ever.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on January 22, 2016, 04:39:34 AM
It wasn't Tatooine because there was never a massive space battle directly above Tatooine in any of the previous movies that would have led to the crash of a Star Destroyer. Making it a planet we haven't heard of means we don't know its history and we don't need to answer the question of "when did that happen?" right away.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 22, 2016, 04:54:56 AM
No, you're thinking logically.  Clearly the answer is "WAAAH, my childhoods! where's all the fun politics and stuff from the prequels? that was way more my deal, Star Treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!11"
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on January 22, 2016, 05:48:43 AM
The unpleasable Star Wars fanboys don't know what they want, but I think I figured out what it is, even if they don't know it.

They want to go back in time.

Unfortunately, Disney is not quite THAT powerful.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on January 22, 2016, 05:57:16 AM
It wasn't Tatooine because there was never a massive space battle directly above Tatooine in any of the previous movies that would have led to the crash of a Star Destroyer. Making it a planet we haven't heard of means we don't know its history and we don't need to answer the question of "when did that happen?" right away.

I still question why they made it so much like Tattooine, like right down to almost-Jawas riding almost-dewbacks. I don't remember any not-Sandpeople, though. But I think there's been too much fanboy venom that causes people to assume the worst when someone says anything against the movie. I loved the movie, I'm just busting its balls a little.

It had me pretty much from the moment Finn and Poe escape on the TIE fighter. Up until then I was still wondering what I was in for. I was worried some of the banter was gonna be a little too Tony Starky. . . but I wound up really digging it. You can definitely feel the 2010s vibe in there from time to time, but it got the tone right in all the ways that counted, I felt. And the 2010s vibe was not altogether a negative, it mostly played to the movie's strength.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 22, 2016, 06:17:01 AM
The unpleasable Star Wars fanboys don't know what they want, but I think I figured out what it is, even if they don't know it.

They want to go back in time.

Unfortunately, Disney is not quite THAT powerful.

Super dumb and angry because any changes threatens their weak grasp on nostalgia, it's sad really
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Tripe on January 22, 2016, 07:03:19 AM
Partially what Scott said, arid = poor often. Arid also = alien for most people. Humans do live in deserts but as a species we tend to not do that all of the time. The image of people who inhabit a whole planet of sand makes things appear automatically alien in a way other environments do not.

Plus it's a call back obviously.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 22, 2016, 07:40:37 AM
Partially what Scott said, arid = poor often. Arid also = alien for most people. Humans do live in deserts but as a species we tend to not do that all of the time. The image of people who inhabit a whole planet of sand makes things appear automatically alien in a way other environments do not.

Plus it's a call back obviously.

True, people that live in harsh climates are thought of as weird and "alien".

If you want your hero to grow up in a harsh environment struggling to get food, the choices are somewhat limited, arid and/or frozen are about it.  Both of those were done in the previous movies.  I would think arid is easier to work with than frozen.  Faking hot dry weather is usually more convincing on screen than fake cold, and real cold is a pain for everyone making the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 22, 2016, 09:02:39 AM
Harsh environment would be literally any planet where there is a lot of hard necessary work. Frozen(hoth), arid(Tatooine), lava(Mustafar), an ocean planet(Kamino), an atmosphere that is toxic to most people (Mandalore for instance), a jungle/swamp (Dagobah). I agree that the desert planet has been overplayed in Star Wars in general. All of the prequels visit one, although ROTS is a brief visit, and two of the original movies feature it. Obviously it was a call back to A New Hope, since JJ wanted to tell us how good that movie was, but I'd have liked a little more deviation. I wouldn't mind seeing another new planet, but I'm damned sick of deserts in Star Wars. Hell, I could even enjoy if Rey had grown up on Courescant. She could've had literally the same job, with more competition. Hell, her back story is simple enough that she could be on any planets I listed, and it would function.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 22, 2016, 10:21:50 AM
 You're not thinking about making the movie or how it would look on screen.  CGI oceans still don't look quite right, toxic atmosphere and you'd have everyone behind a mask, Jungle or swamp could be done well but you lose the need to scavenge ship parts for food, it would be hunting for food instead.  Rey's knowledge of empire technology is what allows her to evade capture after she escapes Ren.

You don't want your new characters hidden behind layers of protective gear the entire time you are introducing them.
A surface you could crash on and walk away from was also needed.
A surface BB-8 could wander freely around was also needed.
Crashed empire ships were needed.
Scavenging those ships to buy food as the primary way to survive was needed.

To get all that the options are pretty sparse, tundra might have worked and be something new, but stuff does grow on tundra so it would have been a bit more difficult to portray Rey's life as on the edge of starvation.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on January 22, 2016, 11:13:30 AM
A surface BB-8 could wander freely around was also needed.

it seemed to do okay on maz's forest planet.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 22, 2016, 11:22:51 AM
A surface BB-8 could wander freely around was also needed.

it seemed to do okay on maz's forest planet.

I guess if it could do stairs roots wouldn't be a problem, but that "forest" had a surprising lack of underbrush, easy to run or walk through all over the place.   Yes, a quite "alien" forest...... ;D

And again, forest negates the "needing to scavenge parts to get food" aspect.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 22, 2016, 05:46:18 PM
It wasn't Tatooine because there was never a massive space battle directly above Tatooine in any of the previous movies that would have led to the crash of a Star Destroyer. Making it a planet we haven't heard of means we don't know its history and we don't need to answer the question of "when did that happen?" right away.

This isn't really the answer. Because all that stuff on jakku didn't happen until after RotJ anyway, so it could just as easily have been Tattooine.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 22, 2016, 07:48:34 PM
It wasn't Tatooine because there was never a massive space battle directly above Tatooine in any of the previous movies that would have led to the crash of a Star Destroyer. Making it a planet we haven't heard of means we don't know its history and we don't need to answer the question of "when did that happen?" right away.

This isn't really the answer. Because all that stuff on jakku didn't happen until after RotJ anyway, so it could just as easily have been Tattooine.

That entirely depends on if they have plans to reveal the story of what went down on the planet though.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on January 22, 2016, 08:04:58 PM
Well, presumably a battle involving the Empire. Perhaps it was some of that star warring we've heard so darn much about.

I mean, do we need EVERYTHING spelled out for us? For SOME, yes. But they can read all the supplemental stuff, extra homework can be their punishment for being so detail-obsessed.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: jonalame on January 22, 2016, 09:36:41 PM
Jakku is where most of the Empire's forces tried to rally after the destruction of the Death Star 2.0(yeah, yeah, and losing Coruscant). They were followed, however, and the Rebels swooped in and massacred 'em.

If you already knew this and are waiting for the finer details to be filled in, my apologies.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 22, 2016, 10:19:37 PM
It wasn't Tatooine because there was never a massive space battle directly above Tatooine in any of the previous movies that would have led to the crash of a Star Destroyer. Making it a planet we haven't heard of means we don't know its history and we don't need to answer the question of "when did that happen?" right away.

This isn't really the answer. Because all that stuff on jakku didn't happen until after RotJ anyway, so it could just as easily have been Tattooine.

That entirely depends on if they have plans to reveal the story of what went down on the planet though.

As Jonalame said, they already did, really. In two different books.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on January 22, 2016, 10:26:26 PM
It's extra, it's there for people who really want it, but that kind of exposition would just stop the movie dead.

The movie did such a great job of showing us all we needed to know: there was a huge battle here, and we recognize the ships as mostly Imperial ships, and given the state of the wreckage, it happened many years ago. Long enough for everything to be half buried in sand and for small communities to show up around it. And they established Rey's character at the same time.

If Lucas had done this, it would've been Rey and Finn standing in front of a window overlooking a bunch of CGI crap. One would explain the battle that had been fought there, and the other would've explained how Rey was such a good scavenger and could defend herself. At some point they would have sat on a sofa during this discussion.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on January 22, 2016, 10:37:21 PM
If Lucas had done this, it would've been Rey and Finn standing in front of a window overlooking a bunch of CGI crap. One would explain the battle that had been fought there, and the other would've explained how Rey was such a good scavenger and could defend herself. At some point they would have sat on a sofa during this discussion.

You mean like he did in the original Star Wars? Oh wait.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 22, 2016, 11:20:04 PM
It's extra, it's there for people who really want it, but that kind of exposition would just stop the movie dead.

The movie did such a great job of showing us all we needed to know: there was a huge battle here, and we recognize the ships as mostly Imperial ships, and given the state of the wreckage, it happened many years ago. Long enough for everything to be half buried in sand and for small communities to show up around it. And they established Rey's character at the same time.

If Lucas had done this, it would've been Rey and Finn standing in front of a window overlooking a bunch of CGI crap. One would explain the battle that had been fought there, and the other would've explained how Rey was such a good scavenger and could defend herself. At some point they would have sat on a sofa during this discussion.

And all of it would have been laughably written and performed awkwardly, he doesn't like actors and never has which is why it's such a shame he surrounded himself with yes men during the prequels
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 23, 2016, 06:12:50 AM
You're not thinking about making the movie or how it would look on screen.  CGI oceans still don't look quite right, toxic atmosphere and you'd have everyone behind a mask, Jungle or swamp could be done well but you lose the need to scavenge ship parts for food, it would be hunting for food instead.  Rey's knowledge of empire technology is what allows her to evade capture after she escapes Ren.

You don't want your new characters hidden behind layers of protective gear the entire time you are introducing them.
A surface you could crash on and walk away from was also needed.
A surface BB-8 could wander freely around was also needed.
Crashed empire ships were needed.
Scavenging those ships to buy food as the primary way to survive was needed.

To get all that the options are pretty sparse, tundra might have worked and be something new, but stuff does grow on tundra so it would have been a bit more difficult to portray Rey's life as on the edge of starvation.

I don't see why scavenging, which is a thing that happens in literally every society at some point, is limited to desert and tundra. A planet like Mandalore where the atmosphere is toxic would be fine, since the citizens live in dome cities. As for hiding the hero behind protective gear... did we not forget the fact that the first times we see her, she's covered head to toe in desert gear? Haven't people made a big deal about the fact that the first time we see three of the characters, they're wearing MASKS? I don't see how putting her in gear that suits the climate and having a different type of planet then the massively over done desert is a bad thing.


Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Ben on January 23, 2016, 07:14:35 AM
You mean like he did in the original Star Wars? Oh wait.

Young George Lucas and old George Lucas are two very different creatures. You should know that by now.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 23, 2016, 10:05:34 AM
You're not thinking about making the movie or how it would look on screen.  CGI oceans still don't look quite right, toxic atmosphere and you'd have everyone behind a mask, Jungle or swamp could be done well but you lose the need to scavenge ship parts for food, it would be hunting for food instead.  Rey's knowledge of empire technology is what allows her to evade capture after she escapes Ren.

You don't want your new characters hidden behind layers of protective gear the entire time you are introducing them.
A surface you could crash on and walk away from was also needed.
A surface BB-8 could wander freely around was also needed.
Crashed empire ships were needed.
Scavenging those ships to buy food as the primary way to survive was needed.

To get all that the options are pretty sparse, tundra might have worked and be something new, but stuff does grow on tundra so it would have been a bit more difficult to portray Rey's life as on the edge of starvation.

I don't see why scavenging, which is a thing that happens in literally every society at some point, is limited to desert and tundra. A planet like Mandalore where the atmosphere is toxic would be fine, since the citizens live in dome cities. As for hiding the hero behind protective gear... did we not forget the fact that the first times we see her, she's covered head to toe in desert gear? Haven't people made a big deal about the fact that the first time we see three of the characters, they're wearing MASKS? I don't see how putting her in gear that suits the climate and having a different type of planet then the massively over done desert is a bad thing.

Rey was covered for how many minutes on screen?  After the first reveal I'm not sure she ever puts that mask back on?

Once Finn turns hero he is mask free.

Wearing a mask is kind of a big deal symbolically in Star Wars.

Besides that how does a planet with a toxic atmosphere allow Poe and Finn to crash and walk away?  And we wouldn't have the scene with Rey sitting outside the ATAT putting on the helmet, I love that little scene.   I put ALL in the last line for a reason.  If you want a completely different movie say so, but as written there are not a lot of choices for the type of environment for the planet they start on.

I liked what the characters did and how things interconnected as written, so wouldn't want to change that by altering the type of planet for reasons that have nothing to do with the plot. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 23, 2016, 10:31:41 AM
You're wasting your time, some people will just look for any reason to not like it

Luke's lightsabre going into Rey's hand is more Star Wars than anything in the prequels, it just is.  If you need to not like it because you don't like Star Trek being popular that's your own bullshit to deal with.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 23, 2016, 01:14:08 PM
Again, you assume that I don't like the movie. I liked it. Liking it and having problems with it aren't mutually exclusive. All I'm saying is that the creative decisions could've been different and kept the theme of the first movie without slavishly adhering to it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 24, 2016, 02:14:55 PM
It wasn't Tatooine because there was never a massive space battle directly above Tatooine in any of the previous movies that would have led to the crash of a Star Destroyer. Making it a planet we haven't heard of means we don't know its history and we don't need to answer the question of "when did that happen?" right away.

This isn't really the answer. Because all that stuff on jakku didn't happen until after RotJ anyway, so it could just as easily have been Tattooine.

That entirely depends on if they have plans to reveal the story of what went down on the planet though.

As Jonalame said, they already did, really. In two different books.

Are those books still considered canon?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 24, 2016, 02:16:13 PM
It wasn't Tatooine because there was never a massive space battle directly above Tatooine in any of the previous movies that would have led to the crash of a Star Destroyer. Making it a planet we haven't heard of means we don't know its history and we don't need to answer the question of "when did that happen?" right away.

This isn't really the answer. Because all that stuff on jakku didn't happen until after RotJ anyway, so it could just as easily have been Tattooine.

That entirely depends on if they have plans to reveal the story of what went down on the planet though.

As Jonalame said, they already did, really. In two different books.

Are those books still considered canon?
Considering they're tie-ins to the movie...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 24, 2016, 02:17:16 PM
Also, Rebels slipped in a reference to something from Shadows of the Empire so that may still be canon.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on January 24, 2016, 02:18:17 PM
It wasn't Tatooine because there was never a massive space battle directly above Tatooine in any of the previous movies that would have led to the crash of a Star Destroyer. Making it a planet we haven't heard of means we don't know its history and we don't need to answer the question of "when did that happen?" right away.

This isn't really the answer. Because all that stuff on jakku didn't happen until after RotJ anyway, so it could just as easily have been Tattooine.

That entirely depends on if they have plans to reveal the story of what went down on the planet though.

As Jonalame said, they already did, really. In two different books.

Are those books still considered canon?
Considering they're tie-ins to the movie...

Ah, they are new? Fair enough. Still, it doesn't mean none of it will appear in a future Star Wars movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Compound on January 30, 2016, 12:33:03 AM
Not directly Ep 7 related, but there are rumors circulating that the upcoming season of Rebels will be drawing from the EU for plots and some characters. So it looks like the same person or people who made reference to SotE are trying to get more of the EU back into canon.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 30, 2016, 06:01:56 AM
Not directly Ep 7 related, but there are rumors circulating that the upcoming season of Rebels will be drawing from the EU for plots and some characters. So it looks like the same person or people who made reference to SotE are trying to get more of the EU back into canon.
Yeah. http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2016/01/rumor-fan-favorite-legends-character-to.html (http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2016/01/rumor-fan-favorite-legends-character-to.html)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 30, 2016, 08:17:14 AM
WOW! I have to start watching Rebels  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Russell AKA Soguru on January 30, 2016, 08:31:22 AM
Rian Johnson I heard wrote BOTH episodes 8 and 9... so I am REALLY looking forward to what's going to happen. Not to toot the horn way too early or anything but I think it's going to be AMAZING.  :o
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on January 30, 2016, 03:08:10 PM
Rian Johnson I heard wrote BOTH episodes 8 and 9... so I am REALLY looking forward to what's going to happen. Not to toot the horn way too early or anything but I think it's going to be AMAZING.  :o

Seconded. He's by far the most talented individual involved in any of the new Star Wars movies, so I'm super excited to see what he comes up with.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on January 30, 2016, 07:58:30 PM
Uhh...
http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677 (http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on January 31, 2016, 06:21:36 AM
Uhh...
http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677 (http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677)

finally.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 31, 2016, 06:58:06 AM
Uhh...
http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677 (http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677)

finally.

He is pretty dreamy
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Quantum Vagina on January 31, 2016, 07:06:28 AM
Uhh...
http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677 (http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677)

finally.

He is pretty dreamy

I'm fairly certain the two of you are joking, but he is handsome as hell... I wouldn't do it, but I can understand how some people would be into it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on January 31, 2016, 05:39:18 PM
Uhh...
http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677 (http://www.gamezone.com/news/you-can-finally-sleep-with-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poe-dameron-3431677)

finally.

He is pretty dreamy

I'm fairly certain the two of you are joking, but he is handsome as hell... I wouldn't do it, but I can understand how some people would be into it.

I'm not, he's a very handsome and charismatic man.  I wouldn't buy one but why not if there's a market?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on February 01, 2016, 04:19:45 PM
Dreamy though he may be, I find those body pillow cases weird.

At least it's something other than an anime schoolgirl for once, though. ^_^
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on February 01, 2016, 05:24:29 PM
Dreamy though he may be, I find those body pillow cases weird.

At least it's something other than an anime schoolgirl for once, though. ^_^

Exactly, he's a grown consenting man and I would assume had to give permission for his likeness
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on February 02, 2016, 05:13:15 AM
Dreamy though he may be, I find those body pillow cases weird.

At least it's something other than an anime schoolgirl for once, though. ^_^

Exactly, he's a grown consenting man and I would assume had to give permission for his likeness

That part I actually doubt, especially since it is also a character likeness and I don't see Disney giving the go-ahead for this.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on February 03, 2016, 03:17:05 PM
I just noticed for the first time that the doll Rey has in her AT-AT is a little rebel pilot, with the orange flight suit and everything.

That's adorable, I love it! ^_^
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on February 03, 2016, 07:08:58 PM
yeah, that and trying the helmet on makes me wonder how old her character is actually supposed to be.  My guess keeps dropping every time I watch it
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on February 04, 2016, 05:16:04 AM
About Luke's age in the first movie, I'd guess.

I assume she made the doll when she was younger.

As for the helmet, if you found one, you'd all do the same thing and you know it! ^_^ No upper age limit on that one, don't give me that! ^_^
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on February 04, 2016, 06:01:12 AM

As for the helmet, if you found one, you'd all do the same thing and you know it! ^_^ No upper age limit on that one, don't give me that! ^_^
(http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/375/rey-x-wing-helmet.jpg)
The midichlorian count is over 9000! Over 9000, how can that be?!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Pak-Man on February 05, 2016, 10:09:34 AM
OK. So I finally have a chance to weigh in on the movie. Loved. It. To. Death. I've always been a prequel supporter, but after seeing Force Awakens, I can now see where the big flaw was in the prequels.

They demystified everything. Suddenly we knew what a Jedi was and how flawed they could be, and what was in their blood that gave them power, and what they were allowed to do and not-do. The status of Jedi went from god-like-being to ninja-with-a-lightsaber. Now I ENJOYED watching ninjas with lightsabers, but that sense of mystery was gone by the time the prequels were done doing their thing.

So what Force Awakens did right was to bring back that little bit of wonder. The Force is a mystery again. We don't know what it can do. We see it do things we never knew it could do before. It adds that little dash of fairy tale back into Star Wars.

Gonna see it on my own a second time tonight in Imax 3D. (Tyrant can't stand the 3D so I had to settle for a lousy 2 dimensions..) Should be a good time! :^)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on February 05, 2016, 05:24:56 PM
Yeah, that's what I loved so much about Maz Kanata.

Well, I loved her for a lot of reasons. She was the first CGI character in Star Wars that was actually LIKABLE and not an offensive ethnic stereotype. But she brought the magic back to the Force, you hear the way she describes it to Rey and you just forget that midichlorians were ever a thing. It was like: I BELIEVE AGAIN!!!!

I do hope we haven't seen the last of her. ^_^
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on February 11, 2016, 07:39:52 AM
Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens (2015)
Blu-ray / DVD release date is set for April 5, 2016 :o
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Awakens-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B018FK66TU
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on February 11, 2016, 07:46:34 AM
Yeah, that's what I loved so much about Maz Kanata.

Well, I loved her for a lot of reasons. She was the first CGI character in Star Wars that was actually LIKABLE and not an offensive ethnic stereotype. But she brought the magic back to the Force, you hear the way she describes it to Rey and you just forget that midichlorians were ever a thing. It was like: I BELIEVE AGAIN!!!!

I do hope we haven't seen the last of her. ^_^
My only issue with her was I wish she had been a puppet, or a person in makeup.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Pak-Man on February 11, 2016, 08:09:35 AM
Eh, the chosen method got the job done. It didn't pull me out of the movie or make me doubt that she wasn't actually there on set. She was exactly on that threshold of reality that makes CGI a logical choice.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Henry88 on February 15, 2016, 07:41:01 AM
Star Wars 7: Force Awakens Script Reveals Luke Skywalker's Response To Rey
http://moviepilot.com/posts/3756775
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on February 15, 2016, 09:15:44 AM
Star Wars 7: Force Awakens Script Reveals Luke Skywalker's Response To Rey
http://moviepilot.com/posts/3756775
I read that article. It doesn't actually say he has dialog, it just describes his feelings.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on March 28, 2016, 03:11:13 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/kpxQir0.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Imrahil on March 28, 2016, 05:41:26 AM
It's a good thing we have Loud Scared Guy to interpret the visuals for us.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on March 29, 2016, 06:37:15 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/fRLT2HK.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on March 29, 2016, 06:39:58 PM
hahaha
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on March 30, 2016, 06:29:38 AM
Only thing missing is the word "Yoink!"
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on March 30, 2016, 07:24:16 PM
The journey of Luke's lightsabre

https://www.facebook.com/ilovebb8/videos/693856550756202/
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: The Lurker on April 04, 2016, 06:14:45 PM
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/erik-bauersfeld-dead-admiral-ackbar-880618?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR%20Breaking%20News_now_2016-04-04%2015:44:48_ehayden&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/erik-bauersfeld-dead-admiral-ackbar-880618?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR%20Breaking%20News_now_2016-04-04%2015:44:48_ehayden&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Edward J Grug III on April 04, 2016, 06:19:39 PM
Awww.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on April 05, 2016, 04:15:03 AM
Blu-Ray releases today :highfive:
Best Buy has the best price at $19.99.. I'll probably go get it then swing through Burger King and get one of those Angry Whopper combos on the way home :o
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on April 07, 2016, 03:54:59 AM
The journey of Luke's lightsaber
https://www.facebook.com/ilovebb8/videos/693856550756202/
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: goflyblind on April 07, 2016, 07:23:13 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/O5RCiNh.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on April 10, 2016, 03:40:35 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/star-wars-actor-jake-lloyd-moved-psychiatric-facility-article-1.2595377
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on April 10, 2016, 06:50:27 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/star-wars-actor-jake-lloyd-moved-psychiatric-facility-article-1.2595377

Poor guy
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: SJP on April 11, 2016, 08:36:53 PM
I was scared he had a breakdown after all the crap he got regarding the prequels.  On the other hand, it certainly explains why he got out of acting, and also why he didn't like going to conventions.  I'm glad to hear it sounds like he's improving.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Kete on April 20, 2016, 09:03:58 AM
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/star-wars-the-force-awakens-han-solo-kylo-ren-dad-jokes.jpg?quality=90&w=650)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: NRRork on April 21, 2016, 06:13:41 AM
Yeah, I think I'd be a little more sympathetic to what young Ben did next if this is how it went down.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on April 29, 2016, 04:23:17 PM
IT'S HERE! IT'S REALLY HERE!!!
http://www.rifftrax.com/star-wars-episode-vii-the-force-awakens
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RVR II on April 29, 2016, 04:45:33 PM
And I can Confirm that the NTSC Blu-Ray mp3 syncs with the ripped Standard DVD for reauthors (and since I haven't mastered the art of Blu-Ray reauthors yet :-[ ) 8)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Variety of Cells on May 01, 2016, 05:25:09 PM
Watched the Rifftrax.  Great stuff. 

Just wanted to point out something about the whole "Fin is just a Janitor?" story element that people were hung up on.  This is approximately what was said: "What did you do when you were based here?"  "I was a janitor".  I don't think the writers intended to imply that he was always a janitor, just when he was based there.  But it's easy to see how the audience (including myself) took it as "I am a janitor". 

The real reason he's a janitor is so that the call back to the trash compactor scene that comes up a few minutes later connects a little better, with Fin having a reason to know where a garbage shoot is. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: Darth Geek on May 01, 2016, 09:57:02 PM

The real reason he's a janitor is so that the call back to the trash compactor scene that comes up a few minutes later connects a little better, with Fin having a reason to know where a garbage shoot is.
I think it's also to show him as more of a regular blue collar "common man" for people to identify and sympathize with.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: ScottotD on May 01, 2016, 11:05:59 PM

The real reason he's a janitor is so that the call back to the trash compactor scene that comes up a few minutes later connects a little better, with Fin having a reason to know where a garbage shoot is.
I think it's also to show him as more of a regular blue collar "common man" for people to identify and sympathize with.

It also show's why he's not a good soldier
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread
Post by: RoninFox on May 02, 2016, 04:39:37 AM

The real reason he's a janitor is so that the call back to the trash compactor scene that comes up a few minutes later connects a little better, with Fin having a reason to know where a garbage shoot is.
I think it's also to show him as more of a regular blue collar "common man" for people to identify and sympathize with.

It also show's why he's not a good soldier

And possibly it is a response to Kevin Smith's dialogue in Clerks, questioning things like if the Empire would need independant contractors to do the blue collar jobs.