RiffTrax Forum

RiffTrax Discussion => Individual RiffTrax Discussion => Star Trek II - Wrath of Khan => Topic started by: Trekker4747 on April 12, 2011, 07:04:02 PM

Title: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Trekker4747 on April 12, 2011, 07:04:02 PM
Like how Khan knew Chekov, even though Chekov wasn't in the cast during "Space Seed's" airing (the TOS episode Khan comes from.)

Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Rainbow Dash on April 12, 2011, 08:09:57 PM
I always just reasonably assumed Chekhov was a crew member elsewhere on the ship and just never seen.  Yes, I know he wasn't cast in the show, but from the Trek Universe standpoint, it makes sense.

Certainly more sense than the "Khan went though all starfleet records" explanation.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: ShadowDog on April 12, 2011, 09:05:58 PM
Yeah, that never bothered me for the reason directly mentioned above.

I learned that when the 6th planet in a solar system explodes Starfleet will reasonably assume the 5th planet is the ... 6th?  This wallbanger got addressed in the novelization by having it be the 4th planet that exploded so that Starfleet would assume the 5th planet was the 4th.  Which, you know, actually makes sense. LOL
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on April 13, 2011, 12:06:32 AM
I learned that when the 6th planet in a solar system explodes Starfleet will reasonably assume the 5th planet is the ... 6th?  This wallbanger got addressed in the novelization by having it be the 4th planet that exploded so that Starfleet would assume the 5th planet was the 4th.  Which, you know, actually makes sense. LOL

On that same note, since riffing always points out movie weaknesses even in your favorite ones (I never noticed how many corridor scenes there were in Alien until they riffed it), here goes:

I learned that future navigation computers really suck.  I mean how could a starship navigation system not notice an entire planet was missing?  With all the sensors and navigation computers a red flag should have gone up somewhere, "hey, these planets aren't were there supposed to be".  I had DOS based programs 20 years ago that could model our solar system accurately for any date you put in.  Well, I guess if you are going to do one bad science thing in your science fiction movie then go all out, planets don't have a lot of influence on each others orbits, so if one were to go boom it would only change the orbits of the other planets a little, and any shock wave strong enough to move a planets orbit more than a little bit would rip that planet apart.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Sheik Yerbouti on April 13, 2011, 03:27:54 AM
Don't forget that the computers apparently couldn't tell the difference between a tiny particle of matter on the surface of Ceti Alpha Five and, you know, an entire colony of people...
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Trekker4747 on April 13, 2011, 03:50:19 AM
My thread title was a joke on a commonly used question on this movie. ;)

Anyway, I learned that 23rd century apartments are going to look a lot like 1980s bachelor pads.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: ShadowDog on April 13, 2011, 05:51:14 AM
Don't forget that the computers apparently couldn't tell the difference between a tiny particle of matter on the surface of Ceti Alpha Five and, you know, an entire colony of people...

LOL  Good point.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: WeatherServo9 on April 13, 2011, 12:01:04 PM
I learned that Spock died even before the opening credits were done.  Son of a...
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Lemming Howard on April 13, 2011, 01:24:03 PM
I learned that wide screen monitors were a passing fad of the 21st century (That's us).
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Compound on April 13, 2011, 05:54:31 PM
I always just reasonably assumed Chekhov was a crew member elsewhere on the ship and just never seen.  Yes, I know he wasn't cast in the show, but from the Trek Universe standpoint, it makes sense.

Certainly more sense than the "Khan went though all starfleet records" explanation.

(Check his copy of "The Nitpicker's Guide to Classic Trek" (http://www.amazon.com/Nitpickers-Guide-Classic-Trekkers/dp/0440506832/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1302741201&sr=8-2) by Phil Farrand.)

Yeah, the "Chekov joined the crew sometime between "Mudd's Women" and 'Space Seed' but wasn't on the bridge crew until later in the series" is the explanation Farrand gives, and he's out to point out to issues in the film. (The Michael Okuda commentary, BTW, suggests that Chekov kept Khan was in line ahead of him in the john and kept him waiting for too long and that's why he remembers him. No, really.)

(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2612/khanw.jpg)

Me? I learned that the guys have it out for the folks at Maxis Software. Oh, and Kevin really needs to start taking Promethazine before he enters the studio.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: CJones on April 13, 2011, 06:34:29 PM
I learned that lifeless planets are substantially more uncommon than everything I thought I knew about Astronomy had led me to believe. And if it's so hard to find suitable planets to use it on for it's intended purpose, what exactly did they imagine the Federation would want it for.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: TheUnabeefer on April 13, 2011, 08:34:26 PM
I JUST started it... and I learned already that there are apparently other Star Trek riffs I don't know about.

They said this is their FIFTH "return trip" ???  Or are they referring to the two "Presents" Trek features?? (the fan-made ones. good riffs)
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: daltysmilth on April 13, 2011, 08:50:32 PM
I learned that Kirk's charisma is such that even someone who's never met him would rather turn the gun on himself than cause anything approaching harm to Kirk.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Compound on April 13, 2011, 09:12:52 PM
I JUST started it... and I learned already that there are apparently other Star Trek riffs I don't know about.

They said this is their FIFTH "return trip" ??? 


II, V, VI, Generations and Trek 2009. With the RP, that'd be 7.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: ShadowDog on April 13, 2011, 10:50:13 PM
(Check his copy of "The Nitpicker's Guide to Classic Trek" (http://www.amazon.com/Nitpickers-Guide-Classic-Trekkers/dp/0440506832/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1302741201&sr=8-2) by Phil Farrand.)

Awesome writer, awesome guides to Next Gen and X-Files in addition to that one.  Too bad he punked out at the first sign of legal trouble and stopped putting out those guides.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: TheUnabeefer on April 14, 2011, 10:51:44 AM
I JUST started it... and I learned already that there are apparently other Star Trek riffs I don't know about.

They said this is their FIFTH "return trip" ??? 


II, V, VI, Generations and Trek 2009. With the RP, that'd be 7.

Woah yeah... I totally spaced on the 2009 one.  I was too busy scanning my DVD covers for Kirk's bloated face.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Lemming Howard on April 14, 2011, 12:22:37 PM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Scrivener on April 14, 2011, 02:16:28 PM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?

Well, Spock swore in Star Trek V.  Whether you consider this conclusive depends on whether you acknowledge anything that happened in that movie.  Gene Roddenberry didn't, so I'd say it's up in the air.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Trekker4747 on April 14, 2011, 04:01:18 PM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?

Would now be an appropriate  time for a colorful metaphor?

Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: eegah on April 14, 2011, 06:15:26 PM
I learned that lifeless planets are substantially more uncommon than everything I thought I knew about Astronomy had led me to believe. And if it's so hard to find suitable planets to use it on for it's intended purpose, what exactly did they imagine the Federation would want it for.

My wife pointed out that the planet also has to be in the "zone of habitability", so that makes then more rare. It still doesn't seem like a hard thing to find in the Star Fleet known universe.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Doctor Who? on April 14, 2011, 07:14:58 PM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?

In the book it says she is half Romulan.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Danecho1967 on April 15, 2011, 10:41:21 AM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?

In the book it says she is half Romulan.

Well, damn, that explains it!  :)
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on April 15, 2011, 02:39:02 PM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?

In the book it says she is half Romulan.

Well, damn, that explains it!  :)

If I'm remembering correctly the book for STIII goes more into that side of her, struggling to keep her emotions under control.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: RoninFox on April 15, 2011, 03:10:35 PM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?

In the book it says she is half Romulan.

Well, damn, that explains it!  :)

If I'm remembering correctly the book for STIII goes more into that side of her, struggling to keep her emotions under control.

And they re-used that little character detail in the background for Valeris in the Star Trek 6 novelization.  Considering there's been numerous Vulcan/Romulan hybrids on the bridge of the Enterprise alone, why exactly did Spock have to go on his reunification quest later?  They're already boning, shouldn't nature take care of the rest?
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Doctor Who? on April 15, 2011, 03:27:22 PM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?

In the book it says she is half Romulan.

Well, damn, that explains it!  :)

If I'm remembering correctly the book for STIII goes more into that side of her, struggling to keep her emotions under control.

And they re-used that little character detail in the background for Valeris in the Star Trek 6 novelization.  Considering there's been numerous Vulcan/Romulan hybrids on the bridge of the Enterprise alone, why exactly did Spock have to go on his reunification quest later?  They're already boning, shouldn't nature take care of the rest?

Maybe there is just one Romulan rapist who stalks Vulcan woman.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Darth Geek on April 15, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
Maybe there is just one Romulan rapist who stalks Vulcan woman.
(http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/tron/15.jpg)
LOGIC PROBE!
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: daltysmilth on April 16, 2011, 09:57:40 AM
Saavik said "Damn!"  Do Vulcans swear?

In the book it says she is half Romulan.

Well, damn, that explains it!  :)

If I'm remembering correctly the book for STIII goes more into that side of her, struggling to keep her emotions under control.

And they re-used that little character detail in the background for Valeris in the Star Trek 6 novelization.  Considering there's been numerous Vulcan/Romulan hybrids on the bridge of the Enterprise alone, why exactly did Spock have to go on his reunification quest later?  They're already boning, shouldn't nature take care of the rest?

Not to get too off topic, but recently I've started to think it would have been better if Nicholas Meyer had gone with his original idea of having Saavik be the traitor in Star Trek VI instead of creating a new character.  So what if Roddenberry didn't like the idea?   He didn't like any part of Star Trek II, or any of the subsequent movies in the franchise released before his death.  It would have been a much more shocking revelation if it had been Saavik.  Saavik had reason to hate the Klingons, she was witness to David Marcus's murder at the hands of Klingons, plus they killed all her crewmates on the U.S.S. Grissom, and they probably would have killed her and Spock if Kirk hadn't intervened.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: ShadowDog on April 16, 2011, 04:11:41 PM
Also, somewhere in all the Star Trek watching and reading I've done the past 30 years, I remember something about the Romulans having a habit of raping the male and females prisoners for the purpose of creating a baby. The guy prisoners would knock up a Romulan babe, the female prisoners would of course get preggers.  The baby is brought to term in both cases and displayed to the prisoner and then, only then, is the prisoner killed.  The baby is usually kept alive though.  This is especially horrific for the Vulcans because of their honor or whatever, but was also used to explain the whole Romulan Tasha Yar thing in Next Gen.

So this could explain why so many Romulan halfbreeds exist in the Trekverse.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Lemming Howard on April 17, 2011, 08:12:01 AM
I learned that the route to Sickbay is through the Bridge which is why Scotty carries his nephew there first.  And he's doing it at all is because he went temporally insane and left his post while no one else would.  Shit happens.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: eegah on April 18, 2011, 05:35:52 AM
I learned that none of Khan's cohorts aged a bit since they were marooned. They all seem to be in their twenties, and Khan implied that they were original Botany Bay passengers (not children of such, which wouldn't have been possible anyway unless they aged super-fast) when he said something like "[they] we around hundreds of years before [Chekov] was born". Plus, they seem to have lost all of their genetically engineered super intelligence because they all seem dumb as posts.

I also learned that a group of genetically engineered super intellects can't see right through very obvious code-talk ("hours would seem like days").

Oh, and I learned that the "neutral zone" is a tiny spherical region of space, not a huge band between the entire Federation and Klingon Empire.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: feinting goats on April 18, 2011, 06:10:58 AM
Why no Square Pegs reference?  Too obscure?
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Cosmic Muse on April 18, 2011, 07:10:18 AM
Also, somewhere in all the Star Trek watching and reading I've done the past 30 years, I remember something about the Romulans having a habit of raping the male and females prisoners for the purpose of creating a baby. The guy prisoners would knock up a Romulan babe, the female prisoners would of course get preggers.  The baby is brought to term in both cases and displayed to the prisoner and then, only then, is the prisoner killed.  The baby is usually kept alive though.  This is especially horrific for the Vulcans because of their honor or whatever, but was also used to explain the whole Romulan Tasha Yar thing in Next Gen.

So this could explain why so many Romulan halfbreeds exist in the Trekverse.

It can't be all that grim and dark though. There may be the possibility that some Romulans like to be more like their Vulcan cousins and act like civilized sentient beings and fell in love with a Vulcan instead of a Romulan. Why does it all have to be so uncomfortably gruesome?
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Henry88 on April 18, 2011, 03:13:46 PM
Quote
Why does it all have to be so uncomfortably gruesome?

they are the villains
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Bob on April 18, 2011, 04:11:49 PM
Just  a general question about something that has been bothering me.

When Chekov and the other captain beamed down to the planet, they were in the middle of a sandstorm and beamed down without issue.   Why did they have to run out of the shelter and into Khan's men?   Couldnt they have beamed up from inside the shelter or pressed their com badges to beam up right away when they saw the men?    And I assume since they knew it was a sandstorm (but not which planet it was apparently), they had to have some ability to beam up.   Er, in case any of the many dozens of life forms on the planet (that they could not detect from the enterprise) attacked them.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Doctor Who? on April 18, 2011, 04:31:16 PM
Just  a general question about something that has been bothering me.

When Chekov and the other captain beamed down to the planet, they were in the middle of a sandstorm and beamed down without issue.   Why did they have to run out of the shelter and into Khan's men?   Couldnt they have beamed up from inside the shelter or pressed their com badges to beam up right away when they saw the men?    And I assume since they knew it was a sandstorm (but not which planet it was apparently), they had to have some ability to beam up.   Er, in case any of the many dozens of life forms on the planet (that they could not detect from the enterprise) attacked them.

The shelter was metal it also seemed to have a power supply of some kind,some types of energy and metals block transporters.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: ShadowDog on April 18, 2011, 06:56:27 PM
Only because the storm was messing with the transporter's power.  They could barely transport down in the storm as it was, being in a metal box pushed it beyond the limit.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Trekker4747 on April 19, 2011, 11:44:03 AM
I learned that a super-intelligent human being won't realize he's in space and has three-dimensions to interact with.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Bob on April 19, 2011, 05:06:50 PM
I learned that a super-intelligent human being won't realize he's in space and has three-dimensions to interact with.

The 3rd dimension was impossible for him because he knew these guys were lurking after the the 4th.

(http://www.kennewickhigh.org/images/pages/52-4.jpg)
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: TTYT on April 23, 2011, 09:52:24 PM
I learned I needed to re-watch "Space Seed" to remember what the hell that bit about Saavik changing her hairstyle was all about (referencing Khan convincing Lt. McGivers to change her hairstyle) besides showing off the fact that Kirstie Alley used to be rather attractive...

I also learned that the movie thankfully gave Khan a much better "final defeat" than the episode, where all his superior intellect and strength couldn't match a pipe to the face from Kirk.

Also, I learned it may have been too much to expect one of the guys to say "Fuckin' seatbelts, how do they work?"

Also, what the hell does Kirk say to Bones before Bones replies "What? You didn't like my act?" I've listened to Kirk's line like 10 times and all I can make out is what sounds like a mumbled "Physician."
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: tannerwaterbury on April 24, 2011, 03:24:42 AM


Also, what the hell does Kirk say to Bones before Bones replies "What? You didn't like my act?" I've listened to Kirk's line like 10 times and all I can make out is what sounds like a mumbled "Physician."



Physician, Heal Thyself.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Darth Geek on April 24, 2011, 08:10:48 PM
I learned that the filmmakers thought that after the devastating emotional death of Spock, we would give a rats ass about how pansy-assed Kirk's son felt about knowing his Dad.  :P
You have a movie with the best scene in the entire franchise, the death of the best character the series ever had, and you end your movie with Shatner and William Katt's stunt double awkwardly hugging. DUMBASS!
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on April 24, 2011, 08:46:04 PM
I learned that the filmmakers thought that after the devastating emotional death of Spock, we would give a rats ass about how pansy-assed Kirk's son felt about knowing his Dad.  :P
You have a movie with the best scene in the entire franchise, the death of the best character the series ever had, and you end your movie with Shatner and William Katt's stunt double awkwardly hugging. DUMBASS!

That never really bothered me as much as the actual last scene, with the stupid "I feel young" line.     They should have ended with the quote from A Tale of Two Cities, cut it before Bones asks "how do you feel?".
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: daltysmilth on April 25, 2011, 12:47:54 AM
I learned that the filmmakers thought that after the devastating emotional death of Spock, we would give a rats ass about how pansy-assed Kirk's son felt about knowing his Dad.  :P
You have a movie with the best scene in the entire franchise, the death of the best character the series ever had, and you end your movie with Shatner and William Katt's stunt double awkwardly hugging. DUMBASS!

That never really bothered me as much as the actual last scene, with the stupid "I feel young" line.     They should have ended with the quote from A Tale of Two Cities, cut it before Bones asks "how do you feel?".

The scene actually went longer than that originally.  It originally ended with someone asking Kirk for a course heading, and Kirk replying "Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning."  Which I think would have been an even less appropriate way to end the film.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Darth Geek on April 25, 2011, 06:07:04 AM

The scene actually went longer than that originally.  It originally ended with someone asking Kirk for a course heading, and Kirk replying "Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning."  Which I think would have been an even less appropriate way to end the film.
A random quote from a book to make the movie seem smart? That would be an appropriate ending for this movie.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: daltysmilth on April 25, 2011, 09:29:14 AM

The scene actually went longer than that originally.  It originally ended with someone asking Kirk for a course heading, and Kirk replying "Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning."  Which I think would have been an even less appropriate way to end the film.
A random quote from a book to make the movie seem smart? That would be an appropriate ending for this movie.

A children's book, though.  It seems like too whimsical a sentiment following the death of a major character.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on April 25, 2011, 10:10:28 AM
I learned that the filmmakers thought that after the devastating emotional death of Spock, we would give a rats ass about how pansy-assed Kirk's son felt about knowing his Dad.  :P
You have a movie with the best scene in the entire franchise, the death of the best character the series ever had, and you end your movie with Shatner and William Katt's stunt double awkwardly hugging. DUMBASS!

That never really bothered me as much as the actual last scene, with the stupid "I feel young" line.     They should have ended with the quote from A Tale of Two Cities, cut it before Bones asks "how do you feel?".

The scene actually went longer than that originally.  It originally ended with someone asking Kirk for a course heading, and Kirk replying "Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning."  Which I think would have been an even less appropriate way to end the film.

That's the way ST VI ended.   That never really bothered me, since they just got the word that their ship was recalled for decommissioning. 

Not sure if the Peter Pan quote to end IV would make the "I feel young" line seem more, or less stupid?
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: eegah on April 25, 2011, 05:12:46 PM
"come behold the wondrous new horizons we've created..."

edit: oops, wrong thread...wish i could delete
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Darth Geek on May 12, 2011, 08:14:53 PM
I learned that Klingons don't take prisoners. It must have been in the subsequent years they started up the prison planet in Star Trek 6.

I learned that it's a big deal the first time the captain of a ship tells the helmsman to do the work of piloting a ship out of spacedock.

I learned Bones is surprised that Spock is talking about logic, even though Spock has NEVER TALKED ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE!

I learned that spouting a made up regulation about away missions needing security (which really should be a regulation, come to think about it), will get you included on said away mission.

I learned that an underground science base will have no exit of any kind.

I learned that going into an area you weren't supposed to go, and the enemy responding violently for invasion of space you weren't supposed to go, is a "no win scenario".

I learned that Kahn thinks it is Captain Kirk's job to check up on the progress of a guy who tried to take over his ship and kill him.

I learned that Kahn made his ultimate revenge using Genesis, the creation of life, like a common grenade.

I learned that in the far future, radiation gloves were designed by Mickey Mouse.

I learned that for Vulcans, death by extreem radiation results in skin rash that looks like dried mud. Seriously, he look like he's hiding from the Predator.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 12, 2011, 11:59:05 PM
I learned that an underground science base will have no exit of any kind.

That was the idea, in case stage 2 of the experiment creating new life went wrong it would be contained inside the asteroid.

In the book for STIII they go back there first and that's where they discover things are not right.  If Khan hadn't intervened and they had waited the 6? months as planned they would have found out the experiment was a failure.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: WeatherServo9 on May 14, 2011, 05:48:53 AM
I learned that it's a Starfleet tradition to insult someone at their funeral. 

I learned that everyone who is from Scotland plays the bagpipes and takes them with them wherever they go. 

I learned that no one remembered or cared who Will Decker was.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Lemming Howard on May 14, 2011, 01:13:31 PM
 

I learned that no one remembered or cared who Will Decker was.



Who?
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Doctor Who? on May 14, 2011, 02:13:22 PM
 

I learned that no one remembered or cared who Will Decker was.




Who?

He was the "Captain" in Star trek The motionless picture.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: daltysmilth on May 14, 2011, 08:32:24 PM
 

I learned that no one remembered or cared who Will Decker was.




Who?

He was the "Captain" in Star trek The motionless picture.

I think he was just trying to go along with the joke.  As in "This conversation never happened."  "What conversation?"
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Sideswipe on May 16, 2011, 06:51:35 PM
I learned that no one remembered or cared who Will Decker was.

What does that have to do with Star Trek 2?
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Bob on May 16, 2011, 07:24:01 PM
I learned that Klingons don't take prisoners. It must have been in the subsequent years they started up the prison planet in Star Trek 6.


Well you see, Er.......uh....hmmm?
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Doctor Who? on May 16, 2011, 07:48:32 PM
I learned that Klingons don't take prisoners. It must have been in the subsequent years they started up the prison planet in Star Trek 6.


Well you see, Er.......uh....hmmm?

That could have just been a slur on Krik's part.  he has always seemed kind of racist towards Klingons and he himslef was taken prisoner by them back in the series.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Darth Geek on May 16, 2011, 07:51:40 PM
I learned that Klingons don't take prisoners. It must have been in the subsequent years they started up the prison planet in Star Trek 6.


Well you see, Er.......uh....hmmm?

That could have just been a slur on Krik's part.  he has always seemed kind of racist towards Klingons and he himslef was taken prisoner by them back in the series.
Well then why would he say that, even as a slur, if HE HIMSELF HAD BEEN TAKEN PRISONER?!
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Doctor Who? on May 17, 2011, 04:26:33 AM
The same reason my racist brother thinks that Obama is dealing drugs out of the White House and that Obama being President means that the cops are not allowed to arrest black men any more when they commit a crime?  Racism doesn't have anything to do with logic,it's hate plain and simple.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: RoninFox on May 17, 2011, 05:08:44 AM
Or it was directed to the situation.  Klingons don't take prisoners in that kind of battle.  Trying to remember the circumstances of Kirk being captured to know if that fits.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Doctor Who? on May 17, 2011, 07:27:33 AM
Or it was directed to the situation.  Klingons don't take prisoners in that kind of battle.  Trying to remember the circumstances of Kirk being captured to know if that fits.

it was the first Klingon episode.  Kirk was on a planet when they took it over.  The Klingons were pretty nice to him the whole time too.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 17, 2011, 10:18:53 AM
I think it would be more the klingons don't take prisoners in battle?  For them it's an honor to die in battle and a disgrace to be captured (think of Worf going to find his father).  So why would they think about taking prisoners? 

They certainly would blow the Enterprise to bits in that situation, I guess the question really is would the Klingons fire on defenceless escape pods?  There wouldn't be much honor in that so maybe not, but they probably wouldn't pick them up to save the people inside either...

But more likely it's because STII is written like WWII submarine movie, so "they don't take prisners" is the kind of thing said in that type of movie.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: daltysmilth on May 17, 2011, 10:43:32 AM
And keep in mind in the next movie Christopher Lloyd's character kills a subordinate for accidentally destroying the U.S.S. Grissom because he wanted prisoners.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 17, 2011, 02:02:49 PM
And keep in mind in the next movie Christopher Lloyd's character kills a subordinate for accidentally destroying the U.S.S. Grissom because he wanted prisoners.

Ah, yes, the old, "no prisoners unless we need information from them" clause...
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: daltysmilth on May 17, 2011, 02:36:17 PM
And keep in mind in the next movie Christopher Lloyd's character kills a subordinate for accidentally destroying the U.S.S. Grissom because he wanted prisoners.

Ah, yes, the old, "no prisoners unless we need information from them" clause...

Or if they'd be useful as hostages.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Doctor Who? on May 17, 2011, 05:26:24 PM
And keep in mind in the next movie Christopher Lloyd's character kills a subordinate for accidentally destroying the U.S.S. Grissom because he wanted prisoners.

Ah, yes, the old, "no prisoners unless we need information from them" clause...

Or if they'd be useful as hostages.

Or if we just want to brag to the hero and give him every detail of our plan.  I mean what is he going to do?  Escape and use the information we give him to wreck our plan?!  i would like to see that happen!
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: vampirehunter42 on May 22, 2011, 12:15:48 PM
Well STII did have Klingon 2.1056 while STIII had Klingon 2.1063. So they were different creatures all together. So by STVI they had Klingon 2.5136 who not only took prisoners, but they took them to a prison planet to mine dilithium crystals.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: WeatherServo9 on June 05, 2011, 10:28:24 PM
...but they took them to a prison planet to mine dilithium crystals.

That mine already existed because Capt. Bakula went there.

Star Trek is a madhouse!  A madhouse!!
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: RoninFox on June 06, 2011, 02:30:36 AM
So in the end it seems to come down to Kirk being a bit bigoted and spewing a hammy cliche.  I don't know about you, but I can accept that.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Russell on August 07, 2011, 08:39:24 PM
I think it's important to take one very important lesson away: you can make one of the greatest
science fiction epics of all time on a budget of 11 million dollars... not accounting for inflation.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Darth Geek on August 07, 2011, 08:53:36 PM
I think it's important to take one very important lesson away: you can make one of the greatest
science fiction epics of all time on a budget of 11 million dollars... not accounting for inflation.
Very true. Even counting for inflation, and comparing movie costs back then, that wasn't a huge budget.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Russell on August 07, 2011, 09:16:53 PM
Very true. Even counting for inflation, and comparing movie costs back then, that wasn't a huge budget.
If I recall, in the words from a certain novel, I think it was Frank Mancuso who said to Harve Bennet
"Can you make us a Star Trek movie for less than 45 fucking million dollars?" and Harve said
"I can make 8 movies for 45 million dollars!". Of course... Harve Bennett also had his hand in the
infamous "Riding with death"....
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Darth Geek on January 13, 2012, 03:41:07 PM
I learned that apparently Kahn didn't actually finish reading Moby Dick. Otherwise he might not have modeled his life on one of the great tragic literary characters.
SPOILER ALERT: It didn't go well for Captain Ahab.


Seriously, this is like modeling your life around Willie Loman and then being surprised when you don't live a long and happy life.
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: MSTJedi on January 13, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
I learned that apparently Kahn didn't actually finish reading Moby Dick. Otherwise he might not have modeled his life on one of the great tragic literary characters.
SPOILER ALERT: It didn't go well for Captain Ahab.


Seriously, this is like modeling your life around Willie Loman and then being surprised when you don't live a long and happy life.

Damn, I wondered what the hell my problem was . . .
Title: Re: What things did we learn even though we weren't around to know them?
Post by: Sideswipe on January 13, 2012, 08:56:25 PM
Well STII did have Klingon 2.1056 while STIII had Klingon 2.1063. So they were different creatures all together. So by STVI they had Klingon 2.5136 who not only took prisoners, but they took them to a prison planet to mine dilithium crystals.

Dilithium aint gonna mine itself.