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RiffTrax Discussion => Individual RiffTrax Discussion => Twilight: New Moon => Topic started by: elusive robert denby on March 21, 2010, 07:15:41 PM

Title: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: elusive robert denby on March 21, 2010, 07:15:41 PM
shes the only one who seems tio have any kind of real life or energy in these horrible, horrible films. or maybe its just because i fancy ashley green. well, either way, shes the only thing i find barable in these terrible movies. even with rifftrax, these films are hard to watch.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 21, 2010, 07:20:24 PM
She is one of the few who is - and normally I hate this word - proactive.

Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 21, 2010, 07:32:33 PM
I rather like Jacob, and what upsets me about this character is in the last book 1/3 of it is written from his POV and either Meyers really can write well and engagingly, or, that middle third wasn't written by her.

Also, Jasper.  I know he doesn't get a lot of time in the books or the movies (so far), but, he was a confederate soldier; I like how he retains some of that.  Even the actor plays him very formal and gentlemanly.

Uhhh....Emmit is okay...he's not horrid..... (?)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 21, 2010, 07:46:19 PM
Also, Jasper.  I know he doesn't get a lot of time in the books or the movies (so far), but, he was a confederate soldier; I like how he retains some of that.  Even the actor plays him very formal and gentlemanly.

Like that part where he tries to pounce on Bella and eat her....but he was a gentleman about it.   ;)  LOL
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: RVR II on March 21, 2010, 07:51:21 PM
The Beauty of Bella is Obviously right up there with the Beauty of Lisa (The Room) 8)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 21, 2010, 07:52:15 PM
Also, Jasper.  I know he doesn't get a lot of time in the books or the movies (so far), but, he was a confederate soldier; I like how he retains some of that.  Even the actor plays him very formal and gentlemanly.

Like that part where he tries to pounce on Bella and eat her....but he was a gentleman about it.   ;)  LOL

....I'M NOT CONSIDERING THIS A PWNAGE!!!!!  (Despite it so obviously being so... :'( )
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Scribblesense on March 21, 2010, 07:55:35 PM
I don't mind Carlisle (the vampire dad) much either.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 21, 2010, 09:33:12 PM
I don't mind Carlisle (the vampire dad) much either.

Yeah, had a nice manner in the hospital.  And then, thinking to tell Bella that her Dad needed her and why...

Also kind of have to like him for 1) "saving" people who were dying in the prime of life and then 2) promoting living without killing.

(Meyer re-wrote "Twilight" from another perspective....wish it had been his instead of Edward's)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 21, 2010, 09:39:31 PM
or maybe its just because i fancy ashley green.

That's the answer for me.  LOL
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Thrifty on March 21, 2010, 10:01:22 PM
I kinda thought Bella's human classmates were cool.  I wanted to see a movie about them.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 21, 2010, 11:00:23 PM
The Beauty of Bella is Obviously right up there with the Beauty of Lisa (The Room) 8)

Lisa: Oh, he'll never dance with her. She'll have to settle for some Mexican Milhouse.
Dancer: I demand to know your name.
Lisabella: My name is Lisabella.
Lisa: That's my name with "bella" on the end of it! Ask her! Oh, God, please, ask her to dance!

http://www.lardlad.com/assets/quotes/season11/BABF15.shtml
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Compound on March 21, 2010, 11:42:27 PM
Well, Alice isn't the only likable character.

I'll agree that vamp mom and dad are fairly decent folks, except for the whole creepy vampire matchmaking thing.

I think Bella's dad is fairly realistic as well. His daughter suddenly arrives back in his life after years of absence and he's really at a loss for what to do. (I'll consider the "Bella sitting at the window for 3 months" montage to be artistic license.) Plus his daughter keeps vanishing on him for days at a time. I sympathize with the guy as he's completely over his head in this. Dad's hunting buddy as well seems like a decent type. Granted, he doesn't get a lot of dialog...



Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Kenotic on March 22, 2010, 01:51:53 AM
There's a handful of likable characters, and as of now Alice is probably the most prominent. Carlisle is fine, although at some point you think he'd actually have a talk with his "son" about how stupid he is trying to date a human he's likely to kill.

Classmate Mike is a dork, but in that way most teenage boys can be. He's likable enough, but the series seems hellbent on making humanity (and humans) boring. Escapism ho!

Jacob is far more interesting than Edward, but I know that things get extra squicky in the end when
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 22, 2010, 03:35:57 AM
My interpretation of what elusive robert denby was saying was that - in this film - Alice seemed like the only one 'behaving' and trying to make sure that the people who most loved one-another had a chance to be together.  But I think that may have been more a function of the lack of time to add in more people doing more things and still maintain both the 'Jacob matures into a werewolf' and the 'Bella&Edward as Romeo&Juliet' things.

I give a tiny bit of credit that the film opened with them basically saying: "Look; see?  We're going to rip off Shakespeare here!"  With the Romeo & Juliet video in class and all.  [Had it not been mentioned before it was re-done, it would've seemed more of a crass rip-off, rather than a crass 'homage'.  ;) ]

I agree with others here: in general, Jacob,  Edward's 'father' and 'mother', and Bella's dad's friends, have been presented as nice, relatively stable people who are proactive.  But with the insanely depressed nature of Bella (including adult-onset night terrors, but mostly three months of basically not moving she was so intensely depressed, wandering off unannounced, then what amounted to suicidal behavior), Bella's father should've at least made sure she was seen by a psychiatrist, but probably hospitalized for such intense depression.  But with the others, I do just think it was the limitations of a two-hour film that made the focus so narrow as to only accent Alice in that regard this time out (not complaining: more Ashley Greene screen time is far from objectionable.  ;D )
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Rattrap007 on March 22, 2010, 04:49:57 AM
Agree. only person who really seems like a great person is Alice.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 22, 2010, 05:13:33 AM
However, she's hooked up with Jasper, right?  Ew!  She doesn't have much taste.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: stansimpson on March 22, 2010, 06:55:07 AM
Alice, the classmates, and the dad were all likable on some level to me.

That's what really surprised me about the first movie because I expected it to be a bonafide Bad Movie.  For the kids, I thought they were goofy but self-aware enough to pull off being likable and real (rather than being the typical cardboard sugar Disney Channel teens).  I think Compound summed up the dad perfectly.  And I'm with denby on Ashley Green.  Not sure if she's the only supernatural character I like just cuz I fancy her or if she's actually a decent character.   ;)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Thrifty on March 22, 2010, 06:59:33 AM
Alice was okay--she's certainly more likeable than Edward or Bella--but I thought she was annoyingly perky.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Tyrant on March 22, 2010, 08:05:25 AM
Victoria. Because she's trying to kill Bella and that's cool by me.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 22, 2010, 09:51:43 AM
Victoria. Because she's trying to kill Bella and that's cool by me.
And she's gorgeous, especially with her red hair. Rawr.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: elusive robert denby on March 22, 2010, 10:54:37 AM
Spoony of The Spoony Experiment summed up Bella perfectly:

You know, the more I think about Bella, the more shocked and appalled I am at her behavior. Throughout the movies she displays a neediness and selfishness that verges on sociopathic, almost as if she can’t even begin to comprehend the feelings of others as she leaves misery and broken hearts in her wake– and not just of her potential paramours. Think about her father, Charlie, and all the melodrama he has to put up with. She regularly comes home battered, bruised, and beaten, but answers his honest concerns only with lies. She disappears into the woods, collapses from exhaustion and exposure, causing him to mobilize a town-wide search for her *beep* dead body, and returns with absolutely no explanation. Then she drops everything to flee to Italy for an indeterminate amount of time, and even the vampire Alice voices more concern for Charlie’s feelings than Bella does. Her hopeless, helpless, woe-is-me attitude veers beyond mere misogyny and becomes truly grotesque.

Think about her friends and her mother, whose lives would be devastated if her suicidal thrill-seeking ended her life. Does she care? No, because she can’t see beyond her own needs, acting for months like a petulant child denied her favorite toy. When it becomes clear that becoming a vampire would call off the truce between the Cullens and the werewolves, does Bella care that her incessant demands to become a vampire would therefore put the Cullens (who she claims to care about) in constant, mortal danger? No. Does she care that people are dying, being torn apart by wolves, sucked dry by vengeful vampires, all because she doesn’t have the good sense to get away from undead monsters? No. Does she care that her dad, who dotes on her constantly (only God knows why) has to clean up after these bodies? No. Does she even spare a moment to consider Edward’s feelings against turning her into a monster like him? No.

In fact, her desire to become a vampire is completely selfish as well. She’s worried about getting old, fat, and wrinkly like everyone else, and damn it, that’s not fair! Why should Edward stay young and dreamy for all eternity, and not ME? ME, ME, ME! Even once Edward has gone, I don’t think her pissy mood has as much to do with being alone as hating the thought that Edward could possibly be happy without her.

Anyone who relates to this girl is incredibly disturbed and needs some serious mental help. Anyone who’s ever been in love has perhaps wrestled with the same feelings, the same neediness that Bella experiences in these movies, but it’s a high school crush. We got over it. We moved on. Sure, that first love and that first loss were hell, but we got a grip on our lives and moved on. You should never have to beg for love, and if you do, it ain’t love
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: THE QUEEN!!! on March 22, 2010, 12:46:19 PM
Alice was the only person in the movie I wouldn't vomit on if I met her in real life. The others I would throw a bomb at and run away from. But even she has that horrible clothes sense and ugly haircut. There is, in other words, nothing redeeming about this movie. But nice try.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: anais.jude on March 22, 2010, 01:02:24 PM
Actually, I think Alice's radio silence was really messed up. She should have kept her email address and then, when Bella kept emailing and whining about Edward, she should have slapped some sense in her and told her to date Jacob. Bella would have gotten over sparkly boy, dated jacob, done the deed, and then gone to college like a normal person
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Tyrant on March 22, 2010, 03:21:08 PM
I find Bella to be a completely repulsive character. On screen, she comes off as detached, uncharismatic, and manically depressed. That her "friends" try throughout the movie to consistently and aggressively include her in anything when it's obvious she doesn't give a crap about being around them is sloppy story telling. That her Dad doesn't get her some psychiatric help is even messier. That she would appeal to any guy is just...beyond logic.

Unless it's just normal for Bella to be the moody, selfish little twit she is. In which case sitting in front of a window for months and screaming and writhing in bed might be typical.

Stephanie Meyer and Tommy Wiseau seem to be operating on the exact same frequency when it comes to understanding human behavior.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: anais.jude on March 22, 2010, 03:37:40 PM
Stephanie Meyer and Tommy Wiseau seem to be operating on the exact same frequency when it comes to understanding human behavior.


Oh Hai, reality
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: THE QUEEN!!! on March 22, 2010, 10:58:17 PM
I was actually thinking about how horrible Bella is during this movie. I couldn't help think why she is screaming in her sleep over an emo guy, and the only way she is healed is through ANOTHER boyfriend? That's what we call codependency. Terrible message to be sending to fragile 13 year old girls.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 22, 2010, 11:00:26 PM
I was actually thinking about how horrible Bella is during this movie. I couldn't help think why she is screaming in her sleep over an emo guy, and the only way she is healed is through ANOTHER boyfriend? That's what we call codependency. Terrible message to be sending to fragile 13 year old girls.

It's POSSIBLE (not that a 13 year old would think this way), that she was screaming over Victoria being able to kill her now...
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: THE QUEEN!!! on March 22, 2010, 11:02:16 PM
I was actually thinking about how horrible Bella is during this movie. I couldn't help think why she is screaming in her sleep over an emo guy, and the only way she is healed is through ANOTHER boyfriend? That's what we call codependency. Terrible message to be sending to fragile 13 year old girls.

It's POSSIBLE (not that a 13 year old would think this way), that she was screaming over Victoria being able to kill her now...

Considering, in the film anyway, she didnt even know about that til AFTER that montage, I don't think that's true.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: PlayMSTie on March 23, 2010, 05:24:16 AM
She is one of the few who is - and normally I hate this word - proactive.



Although she did forget that there are other phones in Italy.  ;)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lemming Howard on March 23, 2010, 06:05:39 AM
I agree with Mr. Denby that Spoony nailed Bella in his review of the movie.  I heard his review before ever seeing the movie(and only with the rifftrax).  It didn't spoil the movie whatsoever.  It is extraordinary how she is supposed to be even a sympathetic character never mind she's the "heroine."
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: stansimpson on March 23, 2010, 06:06:58 AM
She is one of the few who is - and normally I hate this word - proactive.



Although she did forget that there are other phones in Italy.  ;)
If All Movies Had Cell Phones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH2B9F-GPm0)

(Stupid College Humor... needs to start embedding)

Personally, when I watch a movie I never think how a cell phone could make things easier.  Usually I'm too wrapped up in the story (and maybe it comes from living the first 20 years of my life where cell phones and the internet weren't so prevalent).  But New Moon just might be the first time where even I picked up on this.  As the plane was flying overhead, my thoughts were literally, "Wait... this is the best way to get in touch with Edward?  By flying to Italy!?!"  I didn't even think about passports, customs, etc.  I figured that was probably the least efficient way to do things.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 23, 2010, 06:40:43 AM
What number was she supposed to call, exactly?  Edward had crushed his cell phone!  Was she just supposed to randomly call every phone in Italy hoping that somebody who happened to be standing next to Edward would pick up?  Believe me when I tell you I hate to defend any aspect of this horrid movie but the phone thing was the weakest point raised in a Rifftrax since they suggested the police would have been able to arrest the Paranormal Activity demon.

Or maybe it was suggested in the books that a call to the vampire royalty could have helped somehow.  I doubt it from watching the movie since they didn't seem to give a crap about anything but who knows since I've never read the books.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Tyrant on March 23, 2010, 07:51:44 AM
Well, where the hell were the other Cullens? Pretty sure they all carried cel phones and you'd think Alice could probably get a hold of one of them so they could let Edward know.

But of course, then there'd be no reason for Bella to hop on a plane and be in Italy in what seems like a matter of mere hours (even though it'd be a long ass flight from WA).
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: PlayMSTie on March 23, 2010, 08:27:15 AM
What number was she supposed to call, exactly?  Edward had crushed his cell phone!  Was she just supposed to randomly call every phone in Italy hoping that somebody who happened to be standing next to Edward would pick up?  Believe me when I tell you I hate to defend any aspect of this horrid movie but the phone thing was the weakest point raised in a Rifftrax since they suggested the police would have been able to arrest the Paranormal Activity demon.

Yeah, I know. I just thought it was a funny riff.  :)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 23, 2010, 08:57:37 AM
Or maybe it was suggested in the books that a call to the vampire royalty could have helped somehow.  I doubt it from watching the movie since they didn't seem to give a crap about anything but who knows since I've never read the books.

No, that wasn't mentioned in the books.  The way the book explains things, the Voltouri wouldn't have done this...AND IF THERE'S ONE THING MEYERS IS KNOWN FOR IT'S CONTINUITY IN HER UNIVERSE!!!
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 23, 2010, 08:59:18 AM
Considering, in the film anyway, she didnt even know about that til AFTER that montage, I don't think that's true.

But, I mean, instinctually because you know, that character is known for her self-preserva....awwwwwwwww. :(
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 23, 2010, 12:36:38 PM
But of course, then there'd be no reason for Bella to hop on a plane and be in Italy in what seems like a matter of mere hours (even though it'd be a long ass flight from WA).

And of course she got a non-stop flight that didn't get stuck sitting on the runway for hours...nor did it have to wait in a holding pattern over the airport in Italy...  Amazing, huh?

They make the Cullens look so freaking rich all the time, why weren't they on a private charter?
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: iv3rdawG on March 23, 2010, 12:42:50 PM
Why didn't Alice see that Bella was going to get a paper cut?
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 23, 2010, 12:49:02 PM
Oooooo, good point!

By the way, while we're on the subject of Alice, how come her power and Jasper's power work on Bella but no other vampire powers seem to?  Not necessarily a continuity error, but they did make a big deal at the end of the movie that no vampire powers seem to work on her.

Well, where the hell were the other Cullens? Pretty sure they all carried cel phones and you'd think Alice could probably get a hold of one of them so they could let Edward know.

That's a fair point.  I didn't think about that.  She definitely could have tried that.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 23, 2010, 01:29:06 PM
By the way, while we're on the subject of Alice, how come her power and Jasper's power work on Bella but no other vampire powers seem to?  Not necessarily a continuity error, but they did make a big deal at the end of the movie that no vampire powers seem to work on her.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/robotrix/Applause/Applause-4.gif)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/robotrix/Applause/thapplauseanimated.gif)(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/robotrix/Applause/thapplauseanimated.gif)(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/robotrix/Applause/thapplauseanimated.gif)

BTW, do the three (minus one) bad vampires have special powers?  Nothing is ever said about things you have to watch for from them other than they're out there stalking Bella....

And also Bella accuses Jacob and friends of "killing people".  There's those two vampires who had killed Buttcrack Santa still out there - wasn't it them who killed these people?   It's just that the townspeople happened to notice these wolves around the same time and 2+2 made 5.  Shouldn't Bella know better?
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: stansimpson on March 23, 2010, 01:54:48 PM
By the way, while we're on the subject of Alice, how come her power and Jasper's power work on Bella but no other vampire powers seem to?  Not necessarily a continuity error, but they did make a big deal at the end of the movie that no vampire powers seem to work on her.
I wondered that too.  In fact, I got lost watching for awhile because I got so confused trying to reconcile those two ideas.  Once I realized that everybody but Alice couldn't do their superpower thing to her, I assumed Meyer (that's the author right?) had just written herself into a corner.  So I was like, "Oh I see... this is gonna be a big reveal in the sequels where Bella turns out to be a Merivingian or something.... no wait... Alice... nevermind."
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 23, 2010, 02:03:22 PM
By the way, while we're on the subject of Alice, how come her power and Jasper's power work on Bella but no other vampire powers seem to?  Not necessarily a continuity error, but they did make a big deal at the end of the movie that no vampire powers seem to work on her.

I think there's one in the last book whose powers also work on Bella; I think she has the power to make people see nature or something in one's mind....I know Bella's daughter liked this vampire....

GAH!!!! >_<
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 23, 2010, 02:28:38 PM
She is one of the few who is - and normally I hate this word - proactive.



Although she did forget that there are other phones in Italy.  ;)
If All Movies Had Cell Phones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH2B9F-GPm0)

(Stupid College Humor... needs to start embedding)

Personally, when I watch a movie I never think how a cell phone could make things easier.  Usually I'm too wrapped up in the story (and maybe it comes from living the first 20 years of my life where cell phones and the internet weren't so prevalent).  But New Moon just might be the first time where even I picked up on this.  As the plane was flying overhead, my thoughts were literally, "Wait... this is the best way to get in touch with Edward?  By flying to Italy!?!"  I didn't even think about passports, customs, etc.  I figured that was probably the least efficient way to do things.

I've noticed most soap operas have solved this problem - cell phones never work in that world.  If there's an emergency it's now guaranteed that there's either no signal, a crappy signal so that people only hear enough to get the wrong idea 100% of the time or the batteries are dead.

Guess it balances out the miracle cell phones on "24".   ;)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 23, 2010, 04:16:32 PM
By the way, while we're on the subject of Alice, how come her power and Jasper's power work on Bella but no other vampire powers seem to?  Not necessarily a continuity error, but they did make a big deal at the end of the movie that no vampire powers seem to work on her.

Dammit! 

http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630806.html

Spoilers in that if anybody cares.  I don't know if we do ever see anything work on Bella from not her own bloodline save for Alice & Jasper's abilities.

Forgive me for wanting something in this series to make sense. :(
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 23, 2010, 04:39:06 PM
Alice's power working in the first film would make sense because Alice's is not intrusive on Bella, mind or body.

Jasper now having an effect on her screws that up.

I think she has the power to make people see nature or something in one's mind....

How oddly specific...not just illusions but specific illusions only.  Morbid curiosity makes me ask....and this helps this vampire how?
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 23, 2010, 05:06:21 PM
Alice's power working in the first film would make sense because Alice's is not intrusive on Bella, mind or body.

Jasper now having an effect on her screws that up.

I think she has the power to make people see nature or something in one's mind....

How oddly specific...not just illusions but specific illusions only.  Morbid curiosity makes me ask....and this helps this vampire how?

I don't know, and I was wrong, anyway, from that same link, "Anyway, Zafrina can make you see anything she wants you to see--literally, the power of illusion.  "Cleolinda pointed out in the 2nd Book recap how one of the Volturi can see relationships AND THAT'S NOT A SUPERPOWER!!!!

And, I was with you with this, I totally wanted to defend Alice & Jasper, because, you know, it's because they're not intrusive in her head (seeing the future is independant of Bella's mind) but, Jasper IS.  He can control how she feels.  AND, if he can do that, why can't Dakota Vamping pain her?  Emotions are of the heart and not of the mind and that's why Jasper can affect her whereas Jane (that's it, Jane), has to invade her mind to send messages to her nerves?....Possibly?

Or, it's just a shit series.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 23, 2010, 05:28:01 PM
Or, it's just a shit series.

(http://images.theage.com.au/2009/06/26/604760/michael_thumbsup-600x400.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 23, 2010, 06:06:22 PM
Or, it's just a shit series.

(http://images.theage.com.au/2009/06/26/604760/michael_thumbsup-600x400.jpg)

 :D
Bella approves!
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 23, 2010, 08:02:34 PM
Or, it's just a shit series.

And you summed it down from 9 words to 6!
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 24, 2010, 12:00:57 AM
Or, it's just a shit series.

And you summed it down from 9 words to 6!

;D
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Cosmic Muse on March 29, 2010, 02:51:43 AM
I like Alice as a character because she seems like the only decent vampire of the bunch. But I like Jacob Black's character as well. Bella strung the poor guy along, had him do all sorts of favors for her, made him think she was really over Edward and ready to join the living and have a normal life. You can't fault him for being bitter for pouring out his soul to her. Despite being a werewolf, despite the threat of him losing control, like Paul with Sam (Of course I'd love it if Sam turned out to be a Shewolf and the scratches on her face were a result of her fighting in werewolf form.), he's done more to protect Bella from danger than Edward ever did. It was he that pulled her out of the water before she drowned, it was he and his werewolf brethren that saved her from Dreadlock Vampire, it was also he and his brethren who chased off Victoria. I totally understand why Jacob would be so bitter, because of all he's done for Bella to get her to see how self destructive her obsession with Edward is.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 29, 2010, 07:01:37 AM
All true.  But you don't save somebody's live in the hopes she'll reward you by letting you bone her.  You do it because it's the right thing to do.  Don't get me wrong, she totally used him, but he can't play the "I saved you so bend over" card either.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 29, 2010, 09:46:51 AM
All true.  But you don't save somebody's live in the hopes she'll reward you by letting you bone her.  You do it because it's the right thing to do.  Don't get me wrong, she totally used him, but he can't play the "I saved you so bend over" card either.
But he doesn't play that card, which is what makes him a good character. So this whole book series is (among other bad messages) about how it's okay for a girl to make the nice guy finish last. Bleh. Stephanie Meyer, I hope they are making a whole new level of Hell for you.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Cosmic Muse on March 29, 2010, 12:45:43 PM
All true.  But you don't save somebody's live in the hopes she'll reward you by letting you bone her.  You do it because it's the right thing to do.  Don't get me wrong, she totally used him, but he can't play the "I saved you so bend over" card either.
But he doesn't play that card, which is what makes him a good character. So this whole book series is (among other bad messages) about how it's okay for a girl to make the nice guy finish last. Bleh. Stephanie Meyer, I hope they are making a whole new level of Hell for you.

Exactly. Jacob Black never once intimated that all he wanted to so was have sex with her. He, I believe, does truly love Bella enough to not want to see her get hurt. I believe even in wolf form this is true because he didn't plow past her to get to Edward at the end of New Moon.

And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 29, 2010, 02:59:52 PM
Alice's power working in the first film would make sense because Alice's is not intrusive on Bella, mind or body.

Jasper now having an effect on her screws that up.

I think she has the power to make people see nature or something in one's mind....

How oddly specific...not just illusions but specific illusions only.  Morbid curiosity makes me ask....and this helps this vampire how?

I don't know, and I was wrong, anyway, from that same link, "Anyway, Zafrina can make you see anything she wants you to see--literally, the power of illusion.  "Cleolinda pointed out in the 2nd Book recap how one of the Volturi can see relationships AND THAT'S NOT A SUPERPOWER!!!!

And, I was with you with this, I totally wanted to defend Alice & Jasper, because, you know, it's because they're not intrusive in her head (seeing the future is independant of Bella's mind) but, Jasper IS.  He can control how she feels.  AND, if he can do that, why can't Dakota Vamping pain her?  Emotions are of the heart and not of the mind and that's why Jasper can affect her whereas Jane (that's it, Jane), has to invade her mind to send messages to her nerves?....Possibly?

Or, it's just a shit series.

How's this for a fan(?)wank (it's the term, I'm not a 'fan', OK?):  It is possible that Jasper doesn't affect the mind directly, but affects hormones which then go on to affect mood... so 'indirectly'.  Therefore, he would have effects where Fanning-vamp (or anyone else) wouldn't.

Or... it's just a series that keeps its continuity only when convenient.

I asked a friend whose read the books about something in the final book that bugs me just hearing about it... that is:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

Agree 100% on the 'leave James to the Volturi'... unless there is a lot of 'vampire red tape' for them to act on such things (in the meantime jeopardizing the Cullen's home life).  But again, unless that is stated, it is poor writing to make people make up SO many explanations to justify SO many things.  Hell, where was her friggin' editor when the books were submitted?  [Or where was there an editor reading the screenplay for things that might have been mentioned in the books that were important to continuity/common sense?]
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 29, 2010, 04:29:54 PM
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 29, 2010, 04:51:28 PM
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.

Does that human receptionist have a phone?  Wouldn't she have to have to set up those tour groups?

BTW....Plot holes # 3,896 and # 5,987 of this "Saga"...

At what point does attacking people, tearing them to shreds, drinking their blood and leaving the remains behind finally cross the line into "calling attention to yourself"?  I'm thinking the Volteri wouldn't deal with James and company because some how killing humans - no matter what the reason - doesn't count. Witness they're swallowing large groups of easily traced vacationers the last time we see them.  I guess anything short of finding a crowd and jumping up and down yelling, "I'm a vampire" is fair game.

Another question though....Alice claimed that she couldn't go stop Edward by herself because he could read her mind and he'd know she was coming to stop him...   So why couldn't he also read in her mind that she'd just seen Bella alive and well and know that it's true?
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 29, 2010, 05:51:14 PM
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.

Does that human receptionist have a phone?  Wouldn't she have to have to set up those tour groups?

BTW....Plot holes # 3,896 and # 5,987 of this "Saga"...

At what point does attacking people, tearing them to shreds, drinking their blood and leaving the remains behind finally cross the line into "calling attention to yourself"?  I'm thinking the Volteri wouldn't deal with James and company because some how killing humans - no matter what the reason - doesn't count. Witness they're swallowing large groups of easily traced vacationers the last time we see them.  I guess anything short of finding a crowd and jumping up and down yelling, "I'm a vampire" is fair game.

I didn't think of that, so I was mistaken in my bringing it up, too, but I fully agree... and will amplify this.  For the longest time with James et al, they were thought to be 'animal attacks'.  And when they did start killing around Forks as if they were humans, they weren't doing anything 'spectacular' in the murder department.  The Volturi said they only dealt with egregiously noticeable killings.  Since those in Forks thought it was first animals, then humans, that's probably not 'special' enough for them to get involved.

Another question though....Alice claimed that she couldn't go stop Edward by herself because he could read her mind and he'd know she was coming to stop him...   So why couldn't he also read in her mind that she'd just seen Bella alive and well and know that it's true?

That was one 'plot hole' I thought was implied clearly enough.  Edward later said to Bella that there were 'ways' for Alice to lie to the Volturi with her visions (by 'faking one', presumably, as that would be the only way he could see something that wasn't going to happen).

If Alice could lie to/hide from the Volturi, Edward would know that she could distort her thoughts to him.

But that she 'could'  fake such a thing doesn't take care of the fact that he couldn't wait a mere 1-2 minutes to see if Bella showed up and Alice  was lying.  That, with whatever trust had been built up between them over the previous 100+ years.

[Mr Rogers voice] Can you say 'plot contrivance'?  I thought you could! [/Mr Rogers voice]
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 29, 2010, 06:14:23 PM
That was one 'plot hole' I thought was implied clearly enough.  Edward later said to Bella that there were 'ways' for Alice to lie to the Volturi with her visions (by 'faking one', presumably, as that would be the only way he could see something that wasn't going to happen).

If Alice could lie to/hide from the Volturi, Edward would know that she could distort her thoughts to him.

I didn't hear Edward say that...or that was at one of the many points where I just lost interest.

So, for that matter Alice could have been lying to the Volturi about Bella "turning" some day?

Quote
But that she 'could'  fake such a thing doesn't take care of the fact that he couldn't wait a mere 1-2 minutes to see if Bella showed up and Alice  was lying.

Well, the mind reading didn't matter if Bella showed up.  The whole question was why Bella had to be there at all.

Quote
That, with whatever trust had been built up between them over the previous 100+ years.

[Mr Rogers voice] Can you say 'plot contrivance'?  I thought you could! [/Mr Rogers voice]

Well, Edward did say you can't trust vampires....   ;)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 29, 2010, 06:59:09 PM
No, no, no!  Alice can see the future.  What she saw was that, in the future, Bella would be a vampire, BUT, she has a limited vision and if plans change, she can't see them, or can't forsee them.

Also, Edward said there's ways to lie to the Volturi, not that Alice specifically did.

I hate me. :(
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 29, 2010, 07:07:52 PM
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.
The Ghostbusters? Actually that would have been pretty cool.
"Let's show these sparkly bastards how we do thing downtown!"
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 29, 2010, 07:09:40 PM
That was one 'plot hole' I thought was implied clearly enough.  Edward later said to Bella that there were 'ways' for Alice to lie to the Volturi with her visions (by 'faking one', presumably, as that would be the only way he could see something that wasn't going to happen).

If Alice could lie to/hide from the Volturi, Edward would know that she could distort her thoughts to him.

I didn't hear Edward say that...or that was at one of the many points where I just lost interest.

So, for that matter Alice could have been lying to the Volturi about Bella "turning" some day?

Quote
But that she 'could'  fake such a thing doesn't take care of the fact that he couldn't wait a mere 1-2 minutes to see if Bella showed up and Alice  was lying.

Well, the mind reading didn't matter if Bella showed up.  The whole question was why Bella had to be there at all.

Quote
That, with whatever trust had been built up between them over the previous 100+ years.

[Mr Rogers voice] Can you say 'plot contrivance'?  I thought you could! [/Mr Rogers voice]

Well, Edward did say you can't trust vampires....   ;)

 ;D

No, no, no!  Alice can see the future.  What she saw was that, in the future, Bella would be a vampire, BUT, she has a limited vision and if plans change, she can't see them, or can't forsee them.

Also, Edward said there's ways to lie to the Volturi, not that Alice specifically did.

I hate me. :(

Edward's comment about being "able to lie to the Volturi" was his response to Bella making the half-statement/half-question, "so I'm going to be a vampire."  That implies rather intensely that Alice's vision was a lie about the Volturus 'reading' Bella as a vampire.  (i.e. Ed was saying that she wouldn't become one, despite Alice envisioning her sparkling for the Volturus.)  [If I remember correctly, they mumbled that little conversation as the tour group was walking to their doom.]

My issue wasn't quite as big as PSCD's.  PSCD's was, "why did Bella have to be in Italy at all".  Mine was, "why couldn't Alice use her bionic speed to keep Eddie in the dark the couple minutes it would take for Bella to arrive so that there wasn't any dramatic tension about "high noon" and "would she get to him in time".  [And, of course, the way I phrased it answered the question: no tension.  Therefore: plot device.]

And yes, it is sad that we are all analyzing this more intensely than the screenwriter or, apparently, anyone else involved with the movie, as apparently no-one involved said, "this makes no sense!"  (We're possibly analyzing it more than the author, I haven't read any of the books so can't speak to how saturated-with-holes and 'convenient' tension they are.)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 29, 2010, 07:25:30 PM
Ah.  The line about ways to lie to the Volturi was at the end of the movie, back when they were in Forks, in Bella's bedroom...at least that's when I remember it.  I heard it, though, not as Alice lied about that, but, that, they can keep the Volturi in the dark in the future, making them see Bella sparkles, but she doesn't, that is, a mind can be changed.  Alice sees the future, but, something could happen in the future....

But, you're right; we've given this more thought than anybody who enjoys the series....possibly.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 29, 2010, 07:27:33 PM
I'm a writer so I know that sometimes you just have to accomplish something and sometimes it takes so long to explain why the movie grinds to a fucking halt.  So if it's a choice between pacing and closing a plothole, I'll choose pacing.

Unfortunately, this movie chooses neither.  LOL
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 29, 2010, 07:29:01 PM
Ah.  The line about ways to lie to the Volturi was at the end of the movie, back when they were in Forks, in Bella's bedroom...at least that's when I remember it.  I heard it, though, not as Alice lied about that, but, that, they can keep the Volturi in the dark in the future, making them see Bella sparkles, but she doesn't, that is, a mind can be changed.  Alice sees the future, but, something could happen in the future....
For that is where we will be spending the REST of our lives.


But, you're right; we've given this more thought than anybody who enjoys the series....possibly.
Like, guh. My bffs and I have long conversations about Edward's dreaminess all the time. Duh.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on March 29, 2010, 07:32:47 PM
No, no, no!  Alice can see the future.  What she saw was that, in the future, Bella would be a vampire, BUT, she has a limited vision and if plans change, she can't see them, or can't forsee them

So her "power" is kind of useless.

Quote
Also, Edward said there's ways to lie to the Volturi, not that Alice specifically did.

Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 29, 2010, 07:36:01 PM
So her "power" is kind of useless.

.....Yes....

Quote
Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.

.... :opens mouth for rebuttal:  >_<
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 29, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
No, no, no!  Alice can see the future.  What she saw was that, in the future, Bella would be a vampire, BUT, she has a limited vision and if plans change, she can't see them, or can't forsee them

So her "power" is kind of useless.

Quote
Also, Edward said there's ways to lie to the Volturi, not that Alice specifically did.

Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.
I wonder what Lawgiver Day is like in Italy.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 29, 2010, 07:45:25 PM
So her "power" is kind of useless.

.....Yes....

Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.

.... :opens mouth for rebuttal:  >_<

 :D

By jove: I think we've got it!
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Ayriana22 on March 29, 2010, 08:33:09 PM
So her "power" is kind of useless.

.....Yes....

Well, good that they have an all-knowing all-seeing group of lawgivers who can have the wool pulled over their eyes at any time.

.... :opens mouth for rebuttal:  >_<

 :D

By jove: I think we've got it!

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Time for my 2cents.

After having read the book series ( and subsequently wanting to gouge out my eyes  :gouge: )
I've come to this realization, Stephenie Meyers is in fact the worst writer in the world. She wrote 4 books full of hollow, narcissistic people, no plot line and more plot contrivances than should be legally allowed. The ONLY decent character in all  of those books was Jacob and even he turned out to be a bit whiny at times. He also sets a bad example  for staying with someone who OBVIOUSLY doesn't care about anyone else but themselves. And don't even get me started on that whole "imprinting" on a toddler thing, I'm chalking that up to Meyers being a moron, oops, sorry, mormon.
Analyzing this cinematic travesty is pretty much pointless because the original books were  just so poorly written. Just have to hold on for the riffs and wait till the fourth movie comes out so we can all just chalk this up to being a bad dream. A sparkly, void-of-logic, staring filled bad dream.
In conclusion:
1) The books were terrible and had no continuity
2) The movies were terrible and had no continuity, and crappy CGI (They could have done the werewolves SO much better)
3) Prolonged exposure to twilight will probably make you insane. Just stop trying to figure it out, it is roughly the most incoherent piece of literary dreck ever printed.
4) The same goes for the cinematic aberrations that we now have as a result of the books.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 29, 2010, 10:07:43 PM
The filmmakers can't hide behind a badly written book though so they share the blame in this.  Many piss poor novels have been turned into awesome movies by superior storytelling filmmakers.  The same could have been done here if the filmmakers had any balls.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Cosmic Muse on March 30, 2010, 06:15:58 AM
And might I add that with Victoria's quest to kill Bella, it was Edward and his family that caused that little complication by what they did to the hot looking pony tailed vampire, James. Considering how James, Victoria and Dreadlocks vampire were bringing attention to their deeds from the mortals after leaving the bodies of that one guy and buttcrack Santa, I'd have thought the punishment should have been left to the Volturi. All the Cullens had to do was give chuckles and the gang a call to let them know about the activities of James and his posse. But then again we are talking about the individuals who couldn't just call Edward on whatever phone was functional and have him speak to Bella directly.

That's a great point that they should have just snitched out the new vamps and let the Vultures or whatever take care of them.  Although I have to take issue again with the "call somebody" blast from the rifftrax and ask again who the fuck was Bella supposed to call in Italy?  Every random number in the country until she found somebody standing next to Edward?  He crushed his cell phone, none of his family could get ahold of him, and nobody in Italy who could do anything (the Vultures for instance) would care.  I just don't understand who she was supposed to call.

Maybe it's because I come from the generation that didn't rely 100% on cell phones alone as a means of communication, but I guess what I'm thinking of is that they have a land line somewhere. I myself have a land line and a cell phone because just having a cell as your main means of communication is stupid. Alice should have known what her home phone number is anyways and I'm certain any one of Edward's "family" members would have rushed up to hm and tld him they have Alice and Bella on the line. Also providing that all they had were cell phones, I'd have thought at least another Cullen would have a working cell phone Alice could call to inform Edward Bella was still alive.

As for the Volturi, Edward knew their address. heck, even Bella, a mortal was able to sniff out their location using her formidable Mary Sue powers. Someone in the Cullen family should have known ways of getting a hold of them as well. Besides, the Volturi would be stupid not to have at least one of their own or paid mortal mercenaries monitoring the actions of their vampire brethren abroad. Cripes, even the immortals in Highlander had mortals watching over them.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: goflyblind on March 30, 2010, 06:27:13 AM
...because just having a cell as your main means of communication is stupid.

why? three years without a landline hasn't been a problem for me.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Cosmic Muse on March 30, 2010, 06:43:22 AM
2) ......and crappy CGI (They could have done the werewolves SO much better)

Really!! Wouldn't it have been much easier to film real wolves or trained wolf hybrids on green screen sets, digitally enlarge them, then insert them into the finished movie?

why? three years without a landline hasn't been a problem for me.

Like I said, it could be my generation. I'm close to 40 and I've found Cells to be the most unreliable means of communication. Plus leaving a phone company based land line is much easier and doesn't involve buying your way out of a contract.

And I must also stress what I'd typed earlier about the other Cullens having their own cell phones. Alice should have easily dialed Carlisle or Esmee to clear up the Jacob initiated misunderstanding about Bella's lack of a demise. You can't tell me only Edward or Alice were the only family members with cell phones.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 30, 2010, 07:18:00 AM
Don't forget though, Edward was by himself he wasn't with the rest of his family.  They implied Edward wasn't even in the same timezone as the rest of his family.

They could have called the rest of his family and some of them could have rushed to the Vulture lair, that's true.  That's something.

Boy, it's hard work to keep an emo chump kid from killing himself, isn't it?  Sheesh.  All I can say is if Edward was ready to kill himself over someone as plain as Bella then Monica Bellucci would have blown his mind!
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Thrifty on March 30, 2010, 08:38:33 AM
After watching again last night, Jessica is still my favorite.  I find, particularly in the scene right where Bella approaches the biker gang, that she's the level headed one who speaks for the audience.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Cosmic Muse on March 30, 2010, 09:04:55 AM
After watching again last night, Jessica is still my favorite.  I find, particularly in the scene right where Bella approaches the biker gang, that she's the level headed one who speaks for the audience.

I just wish she didn't deliver her lines like a spoiled Beverly Hills princess. I'm not overly fond of that character anyway. My God, she wears a dress to he Prom in Twilight that would have gotten her ejected from even the classiest, upscale restaurant in my area. The cleavage was hanging out just a bit too much there.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Courtney on March 30, 2010, 09:11:07 AM
After watching again last night, Jessica is still my favorite.  I find, particularly in the scene right where Bella approaches the biker gang, that she's the level headed one who speaks for the audience.

Mine too. Anna Kendrick's awesome.

Alice's hair bothers me too much to like her.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Thrifty on March 30, 2010, 09:15:06 AM
After watching again last night, Jessica is still my favorite.  I find, particularly in the scene right where Bella approaches the biker gang, that she's the level headed one who speaks for the audience.

I just wish she didn't deliver her lines like a spoiled Beverly Hills princess. I'm not overly fond of that character anyway. My God, she wears a dress to he Prom in Twilight that would have gotten her ejected from even the classiest, upscale restaurant in my area. The cleavage was hanging out just a bit too much there.

I didn't like her line deliveries either, but can you honestly say you'd be much nicer to Bella?  I think if I had to hang out with her, I'd be snotty and dismissive too.

I think that's what the director was going for.  We are supposed to view Bella as the heroine, to sympathize with her broken heart and identify with her.  Jessica is telling her "Get over it!  Edward's no good for you."  And by disparaging Edward, Jessica becomes the villain.  The line deliveries were probably supposed to make her even more unlikable to the Twihards.  I don't remember her speaking in the same tone during the first movie, and I don't remember the prom dress.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Thrifty on March 30, 2010, 09:15:40 AM
After watching again last night, Jessica is still my favorite.  I find, particularly in the scene right where Bella approaches the biker gang, that she's the level headed one who speaks for the audience.

Mine too. Anna Kendrick's awesome.

She's totally my celebrity crush of the year.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Cosmic Muse on March 30, 2010, 09:26:54 AM
After watching again last night, Jessica is still my favorite.  I find, particularly in the scene right where Bella approaches the biker gang, that she's the level headed one who speaks for the audience.

I just wish she didn't deliver her lines like a spoiled Beverly Hills princess. I'm not overly fond of that character anyway. My God, she wears a dress to he Prom in Twilight that would have gotten her ejected from even the classiest, upscale restaurant in my area. The cleavage was hanging out just a bit too much there.

I didn't like her line deliveries either, but can you honestly say you'd be much nicer to Bella?  I think if I had to hang out with her, I'd be snotty and dismissive too.

I think that's what the director was going for.  We are supposed to view Bella as the heroine, to sympathize with her broken heart and identify with her.  Jessica is telling her "Get over it!  Edward's no good for you."  And by disparaging Edward, Jessica becomes the villain.  The line deliveries were probably supposed to make her even more unlikable to the Twihards.  I don't remember her speaking in the same tone during the first movie, and I don't remember the prom dress.

I don't think I'd want to hang out with either of those characters. Bella's too codependent, moany and self destructive. And Jessica is too stuck up, dismissive and prissy.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: THE QUEEN!!! on March 30, 2010, 12:25:39 PM
You know, I remember from the first film that the vampire "mom" was the only character in the whole movie that didn't repulse me. She's so minor in this one, but I think she wins the prize and the only one I wouldn't run away from. I think just looking at Alice's clothes, I wold run away.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Courtney on March 30, 2010, 12:27:48 PM
You know, I remember from the first film that the vampire "mom" was the only character in the whole movie that didn't repulse me. She's so minor in this one, but I think she wins the prize and the only one I wouldn't run away from. I think just looking at Alice's clothes, I wold run away.

Plus she's the star of Sweet Land, my favorite movie of all time. EVERYONE WATCH IT, DAMMIT.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 30, 2010, 12:59:45 PM
[[regarding contacting a family member to get to Edward]]
Don't forget though, Edward was by himself he wasn't with the rest of his family.  They implied Edward wasn't even in the same timezone as the rest of his family.

You're right, they said he was off by himself.  And, out of his window after he got off the phone with Jacob you could see the huge, well-lit 'Christ the Redeemer' statue in Rio de Jeniero.  [Which actually answers a point someone else brought up earlier: about why it was that Bella and Alice could reach him in Italy in time: he had to actually travel further than they did to get to the Volturi.]
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 30, 2010, 01:18:46 PM
You're right, they said he was off by himself.  And, out of his window after he got off the phone with Jacob you could see the huge, well-lit 'Christ the Redeemer' statue in Rio de Jeniero.  [Which actually answers a point someone else brought up earlier: about why it was that Bella and Alice could reach him in Italy in time: he had to actually travel further than they did to get to the Volturi.

...But, he was already in Italy at that time....I think.  He went to the Voluri, requested to die, they denied him.
Edward:  You know what will happen, anyway.
Volturi:  Not without cause.

He then vows to sparkle under the midday sun.  He's already there.

....He made it Rio to Italy in, what, 18 hours?...according to the movie?

:It's just a movie, I should really just relax.  It's just a movie, I should really just relax.  It's just a movie, I should really just relax.  It's jus....:
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 30, 2010, 02:11:39 PM
You're right, they said he was off by himself.  And, out of his window after he got off the phone with Jacob you could see the huge, well-lit 'Christ the Redeemer' statue in Rio de Jeniero.  [Which actually answers a point someone else brought up earlier: about why it was that Bella and Alice could reach him in Italy in time: he had to actually travel further than they did to get to the Volturi.

...But, he was already in Italy at that time....I think.  He went to the Voluri, requested to die, they denied him.
Edward:  You know what will happen, anyway.
Volturi:  Not without cause.

He then vows to sparkle under the midday sun.  He's already there.

....He made it Rio to Italy in, what, 18 hours?...according to the movie?

:It's just a movie, I should really just relax.  It's just a movie, I should really just relax.  It's just a movie, I should really just relax.  It's jus....:

No, the Jesus the Redeemer in Rio is out the window in the scene where Edward gets off the phone from talking to Jacob (where Jacob implies that Bella is dead) and then crushes his phone.  [Thus making it impossible to reach him until he is in Italy.]  So basically he, Bella, and Alice left at roughly the same time to reach Italy; he from South America, them from North.

I'm sure the iconic image of that huge statue was given for two reasons, in the book it was probably symbolic (somehow) for Edward, but in the film it is one of those world-wide-recognized landmarks that instantly places someone in a particular place without having to put "Rio de Jenieio" in little white letters at the bottom of the screen.  [Much as if they put 'le Tour Eiffel' out the window, people would instantly know someone was in Paris.]

I actually don't remember them giving a time frame for how long it took Edward to get to Italy.  I wonder what Google Maps says is average time to get there from RIo?  :D

With all the time jumps in this film it was easy to get confused....  Hell, the entire Back to the Future series was more stable in time than this film was!  But in a matter of three nights I watched the film three times [ :speechless: ].  First, by itself so I could discuss it with one of my physical therapists who is into the series (she has read all the books), the next night with Mike Kevin and Bill, then the next with the Ice On Mars iRiff for it (both of the latter making the price of the DVD worth it  ;D ).  And I'm rather detail-oriented [no-one reading any of my posts could possibly have guessed that  :D ] and a 'continuity whore', so much of the time I'm acutely aware when things don't fit and look to see if I missed something.  By 'continuity whore' I mean that I work to understand cause-and-effect on multiple levels going way back (it made me a good therapist too, from what clients told me... now I'm wasting that talent on films like this  :P ).
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 30, 2010, 04:47:57 PM
No, the Jesus the Redeemer in Rio is out the window in the scene where Edward gets off the phone from talking to Jacob (where Jacob implies that Bella is dead) and then crushes his phone.  [Thus making it impossible to reach him until he is in Italy.]  So basically he, Bella, and Alice left at roughly the same time to reach Italy; he from South America, them from North.

Yes, I know, but, I'm saying, he was in Italy before they were....somehow.  He was in Rio, but, then, he.....yeah, I saw this movie 7 or 8 times in 4 days.  I rented it from Blockbuster and wanted to get my money's worth with it and the Riff.  I don't remember how it was in the book...and I'm thankful. :)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 30, 2010, 05:36:25 PM
No, the Jesus the Redeemer in Rio is out the window in the scene where Edward gets off the phone from talking to Jacob (where Jacob implies that Bella is dead) and then crushes his phone.  [Thus making it impossible to reach him until he is in Italy.]  So basically he, Bella, and Alice left at roughly the same time to reach Italy; he from South America, them from North.

Yes, I know, but, I'm saying, he was in Italy before they were....somehow.  He was in Rio, but, then, he.....yeah, I saw this movie 7 or 8 times in 4 days.  I rented it from Blockbuster and wanted to get my money's worth with it and the Riff.  I don't remember how it was in the book...and I'm thankful. :)

Oh, OK.  I'm sorry I responded as if you'd only seen it once with the RiffTrax (which is often the case here, and where a lot of people miss a lot of stuff).  I pity our poor brains being exposed to it multiple times in such a short period of time and trying to make sense of it.   :D

I think Edward was only with the Volturi while Bella and Alice were in the car, so he apparently didn't beat them by much.  That could've been anything as mundane as flight scheduling differences, or at which airport the flights each was able to get could land.  And, while it would've been nice if there'd been some explanation, I think it would've interrupted the flow and tension of the 'will she reach him in time?' part of what was going on.

Of course, it could've been all the time that Bella took writing the note to her dad and packing the duffelbag that made them so late.  ::)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lovye on March 30, 2010, 05:45:21 PM
Of course, it could've been all the time that Bella took writing the note to her dad and packing the duffelbag that made them so late.  ::)

YES!!!  That's probably it!   I've also thought it's because he's the fastest of the Cullins, so, he could have ran as far as land would have taken him, he could have gremlin'd on the wing of a plane since he doesn't need air to breathe, and, jump down to land when he was close to a mountain or a tree and ran the rest of the way.

Seriously, I've thought this as a possibilty....

:(
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 30, 2010, 06:09:12 PM
Of course, it could've been all the time that Bella took writing the note to her dad and packing the duffelbag that made them so late.  ::)

YES!!!  That's probably it!   I've also thought it's because he's the fastest of the Cullins, so, he could have ran as far as land would have taken him, he could have gremlin'd on the wing of a plane since he doesn't need air to breathe, and, jump down to land when he was close to a mountain or a tree and ran the rest of the way.

Seriously, I've thought this as a possibilty....

:(
There's a ... sparkly douche ... on ... the wing ... of the plane.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 30, 2010, 09:07:53 PM
LMFAO  Two in a row, DG.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 30, 2010, 09:16:24 PM
LMFAO  Two in a row, DG.
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Ayriana22 on March 31, 2010, 05:26:04 AM
Maybe, since edward is the fastest, instead of flying he just ran over water... you know, the way mating loons or those weird lizards do... or... jesus...  :o

(http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/IFWIS/ibt/userfiles/image/photos/800/Western-Grebe-(mating-dance)-brian-currie.jpg)
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: ShadowDog on March 31, 2010, 06:32:58 AM
They have red eyes!  They're evil!  AHHHHHHH!
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Ayriana22 on March 31, 2010, 07:50:33 AM
Nope just vampire... birds... too bad they don't sparkle too...
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Cosmic Muse on March 31, 2010, 11:31:06 AM
....mating loons....

I think you've hit the nail on the head there concerning Edward and Bella!!
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on March 31, 2010, 12:45:46 PM
Nope just vampire... birds... too bad they don't sparkle too...

I don't know about that... look at the tops of their chests... that looks like 'sparkle' to me.


....mating loons....

I think you've hit the nail on the head there concerning Edward and Bella!!

 :D   :clap:   :D   :clap:
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Ayriana22 on March 31, 2010, 07:23:20 PM
Nope just vampire... birds... too bad they don't sparkle too...

I don't know about that... look at the tops of their chests... that looks like 'sparkle' to me.


....mating loons....

I think you've hit the nail on the head there concerning Edward and Bella!!

 :D   :clap:   :D   :clap:

:bow: and i didn't even mean it hehe.


You know... maybe this is what happens to all those animals those vampire "vegetarians" eat... sparkly emo vampimals.... yikes.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on March 31, 2010, 07:27:37 PM
Nope just vampire... birds... too bad they don't sparkle too...

I don't know about that... look at the tops of their chests... that looks like 'sparkle' to me.


....mating loons....

I think you've hit the nail on the head there concerning Edward and Bella!!

 :D   :clap:   :D   :clap:

:bow: and i didn't even mean it hehe.


You know... maybe this is what happens to all those animals those vampire "vegetarians" eat... sparkly emo vampimals.... yikes.
Now THERE'S a band name!
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Tony Farms AKA Puma Man on April 10, 2010, 08:03:52 AM
Maybe, since edward is the fastest, instead of flying he just ran over water... you know, the way mating loons or those weird lizards do... or... jesus...  :o

(http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/IFWIS/ibt/userfiles/image/photos/800/Western-Grebe-(mating-dance)-brian-currie.jpg)

Man, check out out the boobs on those Loons!

AOOOOGAH
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on April 10, 2010, 03:27:13 PM
Maybe, since edward is the fastest, instead of flying he just ran over water... you know, the way mating loons or those weird lizards do... or... jesus...  :o

(http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/IFWIS/ibt/userfiles/image/photos/800/Western-Grebe-(mating-dance)-brian-currie.jpg)

Man, check out out the boobs on those Loons!

AOOOOGAH
Never seen birds stand four abreast.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on April 16, 2010, 03:22:28 PM
I think Edward was only with the Volturi while Bella and Alice were in the car, so he apparently didn't beat them by much.

Still you'd think that the Volturi - Lawgivers of all Vampires across the globe - would have a few things to deal with on a regular basis so that Edward might have had to request an appointment to see them...and have to wait?  But instead he can just walk in and be seen the moment he gets there.

Yeah...makes sense.   :P
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Tony Farms AKA Puma Man on April 16, 2010, 05:37:31 PM
Was it explained why Alice doesn't seem to sparkle?  the whole point was that Bella had to stop Edward from gettin' sparkly in front of the crowd, but Alice just walks in the same door.   Her face was still visible under the glasses and the scarf.

She didn't sparkle in the car either.

 ???
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: LucasM on April 16, 2010, 06:35:11 PM
Was it explained why Alice doesn't seem to sparkle?  the whole point was that Bella had to stop Edward from gettin' sparkly in front of the crowd, but Alice just walks in the same door.   Her face was still visible under the glasses and the scarf.

She didn't sparkle in the car either.

 ???

Holy shit!  The 'continuity-whore' I am, I can't believe I missed that.  :o

(And no: it wasn't explained.)

EDIT:  Although when I watched it again more recently, she was wearing a scarf covering her head (where she could have shifted her face to fall in the shadow of it), and either gloves or a jacket with pockets that her hands could have been in.  So, theoretically she could've made it there 'unsparkled'.

But that completely ignores how she made it away from the police when theoretically the town was blocked off to anything but foot traffic and she was driving a very noticeable stolen car.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: stansimpson on April 29, 2010, 07:00:21 PM
Insightful, funny and true:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zQwqepW97zs&hl=en_US&fs=1&

This sorta validates this particular thread imo.
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Darth Geek on April 29, 2010, 07:05:21 PM
Insightful, funny and true:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zQwqepW97zs&hl=en_US&fs=1&

This sorta validates this particular thread imo.
While I agree that the reasons she said you should not hate Twilight are true*, she only gave ONE reason to hate it, when there are a miriad of valid reasons to hate Twilight.

*Well, Twilight is really gay...
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Lady Ignis on June 19, 2010, 09:31:30 AM
I find Carlisle(vampire father) likable, we get all this vampires who say they are good. Yet just waste immortality sitting around a classroom in High School. At least Carlisle is trying to do something with his life. Esme(the vampire mom), doesn't really get that much going on. Most of the humans are at least more interesting that Bella with the little screen time they get. The bad guys, because at least they act like vampires and you8 know want to kill Bella and Edward. Oh and Rosalie because she things immortality is not as good as we would like to think. ;D   
Title: Re: Alice the only thing close to a likable character?
Post by: Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck on June 28, 2010, 12:51:24 PM
Excuse me if this has been said before somewhere but....was watching this riff again last night and....

1) So much for Alice's precognition that she didn't see Jasper going "full-tilt blood lust" at Bella's party.

2) She found Bella's camera in Bella's purse.  What the hell was she doing going through Bella's purse?  Checking for garlic and holy water (although those probably don't work in this "saga" either)?

She's also not too smart.  Yeah, insult Jacob who can turn into the one thing in the world (other than another vampire) that can kill you outright.

And again I'm probably asking something that has no answer in the books but...

The tribe made a pact with the Cullens that they wouldn't tell "White Eyes" about them or kill them as long as the Cullens didn't hunt humans (which they didn't want to do anyway).  But what happens to the tribe if say Jacob had taken out Edward at the end of the movie?   Nothing as far as I can tell.

The Cullens don't want to kill humans - but maybe they'd make an exception?  And yet the Voltari wouldn't want to attract the kind of attention that taking out a whole reservation full of Native Americans would bring.....so would they would stop the Cullens?

And it's not like the Cullens could run to the authorities about the tribe...."Hey, those guys can turn into wolves!  How do I know that?  Um....well...."

Just pisses me off that they could have been a decent book series if it had been done by someone who could write...and plot...and didn't have a deep seated psychosis and misogynistic tendencies.....