RiffTrax Forum

General Discussion => Television aka TV discussion => Topic started by: MartyS (Gromit) on October 17, 2009, 08:52:14 PM

Title: SGU
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on October 17, 2009, 08:52:14 PM
So, anyone watching Star Gate Universe?

I started watching last night, was about to turn it off, but decided to give it a chance....  Wrong decision, it never got better.  I can't imagine ever caring about any of these characters, so I won't be watching any more.

Sanctuary started off it's second season pretty well, I'll probably keep watching that.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: Moleman on October 17, 2009, 10:57:00 PM
Big Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis fan here who's seen all 314 episodes and 3 films between the two series and so far my opinion of the new series is...




its crap



Where's the adventure?  Where's the humor?  Why is the series so frickin Dark?  Why did the Stargate writers who have always done well at coming up with original material or using other material in an original way are now doing nothing but trying to copy other shows?  And how could all the characters be so boring?  Where's lovable old O'Neil?  Funny McKay?  Badass Ronan and Teal'c?

This show is Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek Voyager, and Lost in Space all in one but without a single likable character.  It uses the flashback elements from Lost, the being stuck on a ship and camera stylings of Galactica, the having no way home or where you are like Voyager, and the being lost in space like, well you get the idea.  Except the problem is that's ALL there is.  Lost had interesting characters even though it lacked plot and explanation.  Galactica had awesome space battles, the threat of Cylon attack, and the suspense of who might be a human-form cylon.  Lost in Space had that robot and characters of different ages the can be related to.  Stargate Universe has nothing of this.

Worse though is the pacing just seems awful.  Once again, as someone who has seen every episode I still couldn't keep track of what was going on half the time.  I can only imagine what someone who's never seen any Stargate must have been going through when they offer ZERO explanation about the ancient stones or not even some kind of noticeable transition when those people are in different bodies.  After 3 (technically 4) episodes I'm still not sure which of the two people are actually on the ship and which are back on Earth.  To top it all off, this series always has what I see as the same thing that kept me from really loving Galactica and that was the weak, whiny, emotional characters.  These people are supposed to be the best of the best and there sitting there whining and bitching over things like chain of command and panicking causing problems to get worse.  Yeah if you took random people from a shopping mall or something and put them in this situation they would probably act like that but not people who are so great that they get into the super top secret stargate program. They should at least be able to keep it together some and contribute instead of Dr. Rush doing everything and Eli magically coming up with answers with no explanation other than "he was an MIT drop out".

If they don't get attacked by some alien race
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
then I'm done with this series.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on October 17, 2009, 11:25:52 PM
These people are supposed to be the best of the best and there sitting there whining and bitching over things like chain of command and panicking causing problems to get worse.  Yeah if you took random people from a shopping mall or something and put them in this situation they would probably act like that but not people who are so great that they get into the super top secret stargate program. They should at least be able to keep it together some and contribute instead of Dr. Rush doing everything and Eli magically coming up with answers with no explanation other than "he was an MIT drop out".

Since I didn't see the first episodes I assumed they were not regular star gate command people, then as the show went on there were clues that they were actually on a mission from the SGC, so that's when I really started to doubt the show, for all the reasons you said (ignoring the Galactica comparison, I loved the characters on that).

Making a show based on "wrong people, wrong place, wrong time" is OK, but don't have them come from a top secret program that only accepts the best of the best of the best....

For me the biggest problem with the show is the chemistry between the characters, I saw none at all, not even a hint that it could improve.  Mostly unlikeable or boring characters that don't mesh well, not a good prospect for a successful series.

Oh, I would actually like a show without the crew being constantly attacked by aliens, a good old exploration show with the occasional conflict would be nice, like the original Star Trek and most of next gen.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: hemansfuzzybritches on October 22, 2009, 08:26:37 AM
I actually like SGU. I find the more serious take on the franchise to be refreshing. It's certainly more entertaining that the first few seasons of SG-1. Velveeta only wishes they had that much cheese. It's far from perfect, but you have to take the bad with the good. For example, there might be less humor, but there's also far fewer "guys trudging around in useless chain mail." While at this point there might be less chemistry between characters, there's also less likelihood of being captured by vikings.

It's serial television. Things have to build up more slowly when you're telling a story over 20 episodes rather than just one. I have a feeling that things will start moving along at a nice clip given a few more episodes.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on October 22, 2009, 09:20:20 AM
I actually like SGU. I find the more serious take on the franchise to be refreshing. It's certainly more entertaining that the first few seasons of SG-1. Velveeta only wishes they had that much cheese. It's far from perfect, but you have to take the bad with the good. For example, there might be less humor, but there's also far fewer "guys trudging around in useless chain mail." While at this point there might be less chemistry between characters, there's also less likelihood of being captured by vikings.

So, what characters do you like?

You're right that the idea of the show has good potential, but I didn't see one character I could stand to watch any more of. 

I think this may be the first science fiction show I can say that about...  Even on the bad ones there was usually at least one character I wanted to see next week.  I think I watched the first 2 seasons of Voyager just because of Tess and the Doc....
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: dangfish on October 29, 2009, 03:04:43 PM
I'm with Mojo. Just got caught up with all the episodes and I'm enjoying it.  I think it was past time for the franchise to go in a different direction.  I enjoyed Stargate Atlantis but my chief issue with it is that it felt a little TOO much like the original series. This new one definitely feels like something new. And, as Mojo said, it is a serialized drama so it needs time to find itself and develop the characters.  I'm very much enjoying Robert Caryle's performance as the scientist that nobody is sure can be trusted. He's a great actor and this role is perfect for him.  And the main commander guy is starting to grow on me. The characters in the first two Stargate series were pretty much all goody too-shoes heroes  with little to no shades of gray to them.  This new series seems to be shooting for characters a bit more like real people.

I remember way back when Star Trek Voyager first debuted.  They touted it as the star trek series with a 'totally different feel in a totally different galaxy.'  Ultimately, however, the show never felt that much different than the other start trek shows and the galaxy they were trapped in never really felt all that much different from the federation space of the other shows.  With Stargate Universe, however, it does truly feel like they are in strange new territory. I'm looking forward to seeing where they go from here.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on October 29, 2009, 09:15:34 PM
Watched last Friday's show but haven't changed my mind.   I'll agree with the scientist guy being someone that might be interesting, but the rest are still a bunch of whiny losers.   (emotional is OK, but bad whiny acting I can't stand)

Sorry, I don't watch shows for "real people", I want good stories and good acting, not seeing either so far.

Since it's on after Sanctuary I'll probably keep watching the beginning of future episodes just to see if it gets better, but it's strictly in "nothing else on" territory for me...
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: Moleman on October 29, 2009, 10:36:14 PM
I haven't changed my mind either.  That whole "Oh by the way the ship is magically solar powered" thing was such crap.

Well dangfish I definitely can't disagree with you about the show being different.  But for me that's a bad thing.  If that's your tastes then there's certainly nothing wrong with that.  But for a lot of Stargate fans this has nothing we liked the original show and Atlantis for at all and I can't see myself being brought to watch it anymore.  Its a shame because I really REALLY want to like this show.



While I'm posting and since I don't feel like giving it its own thread...EVERY EPISODE of Stargate SG-1 from Seasons 1 through 8 is on Hulu (174 episodes): http://www.hulu.com/stargate-sg-1 (http://www.hulu.com/stargate-sg-1).  Also they still have the last 10 episodes of Atlantis: http://www.hulu.com/stargate-atlantis (http://www.hulu.com/stargate-atlantis).
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: hemansfuzzybritches on November 02, 2009, 09:14:44 AM
Doctor Rush is probably my favorite character. I think he has hidden depths and that there's a reason for his attitude problem that goes beyond simple arrogance. I'm interested to see which direction the writers take him. Will be form a bond with the crew over time or will he ally with some sinister race that the Destiny will surely come across? I'm leaning a bit towards the latter. I have a feeling there will be a tipping point towards the end of the first season and he'll be the main villain for season two. Either way, I think he has his own agenda.

I like Eli as well. I wasn't sure at first. He seemed too Hud-ish (from Cloverfield). I kind of hoped he'd be drop kicked by Godzilla. But now I think that he provides some much needed comic relief for the show because face it, there wouldn't be any without him. He's also the 'everyman' that people may find easier to relate to. I thought there was some good character development between him and Chloe, and was somewhat miffed when she shacked up with the lecherous Captain America. But I've since come to grips with that as Chloe was just following the rules of Ladder Theory. http://www.laddertheory.com/ (http://www.laddertheory.com/)

Like others have said, there are already 300+ episodes of essentially the same ol' Stargate. Do we really need more?
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: LordZordec on January 01, 2010, 01:34:27 PM
Stargate Universe is/was/may continue to be my favorite show.  Unfortunately, the rating sucked, and now it wont be back until April.  I hate you NBCU!!!  You have done this to me again!

The last good scifi show this happened with was Journeyman in late 2007.  I got hooked and then they jerked the rug out from under me mid-season.

May my wifes company (who now owns 51% of you your worthless butt) fire all of the execs and run NBCU in the ground.  Anyone up for a useless "ship in some random food item by the truckload" campaign?  What would it be with SGU?  Protein bars?
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 01, 2010, 03:31:31 PM
Stargate Universe is/was/may continue to be my favorite show.  Unfortunately, the rating sucked, and now it wont be back until April.  I hate you NBCU!!!  You have done this to me again!

All the more expensive shows on SyFy take long breaks, they dragged 4 seasons of BSG out for what, 7 years?  All they do is order half seasons now.

I attempted to watch another episode about a month ago, still didn't like it...
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: LordZordec on January 01, 2010, 06:56:45 PM
Its the kind of show you have to follow from the very beginning to really get, and its also the kind of show you either like or dont - there is no in between.  Its also very character centric rather than focusing on action.

Its not the perfect show, but I found it enjoyable enough to watch on a weekly basis which really says something for me.

The reason I have been an MST3K/RiffTrax fan is because I fully believe most of the TV and movies out there is crap.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: Moleman on January 01, 2010, 07:19:18 PM
Despite the fact that I really don't like this show, why in the hell would they want to cancel/delay or otherwise not air it in a normal sane way?  How can it be worse then all the other crap they have on their sorry ass channel?  In fact, as far as what's currently running, its got to be the best show they have.  Why F it over?  There must be something we don't know.

The only Syfy shows I can think of that are better imo are Warehouse 13 and Eureka.  Seems like the same thing happened to Warehouse 13 because it seemed to completely vanish mid-season.  Eureka's been gone a long time, is it even coming back?

This is a different channel but what the hell happened to V?  3 episodes and that's it?  It wasn't THAT great but it was certainly watchable.  I was interested.  Where the hell is it?

It would seem to me the best way to get ratings is to have some kind of regular schedule so people can watch every week with a few months break between seasons.  Nowadays it seems like they got some whacked out schedule of airing a few episodes, month break, few episodes, two month break, a lot of episodes, month break, a few episodes, month break, rest of season airs, 1 year break, new season.

I know episodes take a long time to film but it didn't used to be like this.  Not even a few years ago.  Somethings messed up.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on January 01, 2010, 07:44:19 PM
The only Syfy shows I can think of that are better imo are Warehouse 13 and Eureka.  Seems like the same thing happened to Warehouse 13 because it seemed to completely vanish mid-season.  Eureka's been gone a long time, is it even coming back?

Didn't Warehouse 13 have something of a season finale?  Being this is SyFy if they do another season it will probably be next summer or fall....

Same for Eureka, short season long time till the next.

I like Sanctuary about the same as Warehouse 13, but the short seasons and odd timing of their seasons makes it hard to follow the shows you might want  to see on SyFy.

When I get my internet upgraded I'll probably start watching them online more...

Later,
 Marty
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: LordZordec on January 01, 2010, 09:06:25 PM
The problem with TV period is that it is SO competitive and nowhere near as profitable as it once was.  Also, we have so many more things to consume our time besides watching TV now.

Hence, a show really has to be top notch phenominal just to have a shot at surviving, and then there is a certain amount of luck involved too.  20 years ago, we would watch whatever horse manure was on TV just because it was on TV, and what the XXXX else were we going to watch?  We only had 13 channels!

Dont believe me?  Try to sit through an episode of Magnum PI or MacGyver, and then tell me why those shows lasted for 7 seasons!  Its because nothing else was on!

It was that or READ A BOOK!!! (blood curdling scream)  :o
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: dangfish on January 03, 2010, 02:48:51 PM




Dont believe me?  Try to sit through an episode of Magnum PI or MacGyver, and then tell me why those shows lasted for 7 seasons!  Its because nothing else was on!

It was that or READ A BOOK!!! (blood curdling scream)  :o

To each their own.  I've been working my way through Magnum PI on DVD.  I think it's a quality show and still stands up well today.  I am with you on Stargate Universe however. I'm enjoying it immensely and hope that it sticks around for a while.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: WeatherServo9 on May 27, 2010, 10:36:46 PM
Okay, the first season is almost done, so perhaps it's time to revive this thread.

I know a ton of people are down on this show, but like some of you who've already said so, I actually like it.  The visuals and sets are top-notch, the acting is good, the plot is an interesting one.  It really has a lot going in its favor, and I'm glad to see that it will be around for another season at least.

Seemingly people just can't accept that it's not like the other Stargate shows, and in their minds that makes it crap.  I suspect some of these people are the same ones who were upset about Starbuck being a woman in Ron Moore's BSG.  Don't forget that quite a few hard core Trekkies hated STNG just because it was new and different - until it got really popular.

---> Don't keep reading if you haven't watched Subversion and still want to. <---

Something struck me watching the latest episode (Subversion).  Having O'Neill on that ship really felt out of place to me, especially when he was joking around in the midst of an otherwise serious scene that we al knew was headed towards torture.  And I love RDA and the character, but I just wanted to reach through the screen, shake him and tell him to stop making jokes and get serious for a moment, which is something I would never have thought watching SG-1 or Atlantis. 

Oddly enough, I was perusing some of the comments about this episode over at Gateworld, and tons of people there like it precisely because it had O'Neill and Dr. Jackson in it.  And people like it because it felt, in many ways, like an old school Stargate episode.  And I have to say this actually kind of disappoints me a bit.  If you only like the show when it imitates the old school feel, then you don't really like the show.  (Admittedly, many of them will tell you they indeed don't.)  There were a lot of complaints about the baby shower scene (people felt that it didn't belong or took time away from the plot), but I actually thought the baby shower scene was indicative of exactly what all those people who have been complaining about the show have been begging to see more of - the crew actually acting like a crew, like a family, not like a bunch of people who don't like each other.  So a lot of people have been kicking this show around for showing characters in the Stargate universe (ha ha) in conflict with each other, and then they complain when those same characters take screen time away from torture and intrigue to actually overcome that conflict. 

You can't please all of the people all of the time, and some people you can't please anytime.

Does this show have some flaws?  Of course.  But so did MST3K and everything else ever created by human beings.  I still don't really buy Telford as a spy, and I'd like to see more of the ship, and I still can't think of a logical reason the aliens would have planted a tracking device on Rush unless they planned to release him back to the ship themselves (or they just weren't sure about the strength of their own jails).  And maybe that was explained and I missed it.  A lot of people don't seem to like the character of Chloe, but I think they're just upset about the fact that such a character is really out of place in that environment - which is, of course, the whole point. 

But the really amusing thing about the hatred surrounding this show are the anti-SGU websites and forum threads that have sprung up, where I guess people who really, absolutely despise the show write about how much they really, absolutely despise it - after they watch it every week.  What?

So I don't think this show can be dismissed as just a BSG clone.  And it has definitely colored my perception of the other Stargate shows (of which I am a huge fan).

And that's all for now on this subject.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 27, 2010, 11:52:56 PM
Okay, the first season is almost done, so perhaps it's time to revive this thread.

I know a ton of people are down on this show, but like some of you who've already said so, I actually like it.  The visuals and sets are top-notch, the acting is good, the plot is an interesting one.  It really has a lot going in its favor, and I'm glad to see that it will be around for another season at least.

I'll agree with you on everything except the acting.  I just tried watching one of the recent episodes, most likely the last attempt for me, I like the effects and it's a cool ship but I  still can't stand the characters.  Can't be sure if it's the acting or the writing, but if I don't like the characters I can't watch a show no matter how good the effects are. 

I could forgive a lot of the plot holes in BSG just because I thought all the characters were great.  Even that first horrible season of Star Trek Next Generation was possible to get through because you could tell there was chemistry there and it would get better (and it did), I don't see that here at all.  I was looking for at least one character I could like but haven't found one, the best ones only rise to the level of apathy for me.   

Title: Re: SGU
Post by: ShadowDog on May 28, 2010, 06:06:53 AM
Great point about the first season of NextGen.  That crap was damn near unwatchable but, you're right, the characters and their chemistry kept us going until the sets, SPFX, and writing got better.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: WeatherServo9 on May 29, 2010, 05:34:55 PM
I'll agree with you on everything except the acting.  I just tried watching one of the recent episodes, most likely the last attempt for me, I like the effects and it's a cool ship but I  still can't stand the characters.  Can't be sure if it's the acting or the writing, but if I don't like the characters I can't watch a show no matter how good the effects are.

I agree with you about watching a show just for effects.  Don't ever do that!  (Enterprise.)

I really like the work of both Robert Carlyle as Rush and Alaina Huffman as Lt. Johansen.  I'm sure Huffman will go on to do big starring roles after this.  In the episode Faith, there's this moment where she makes a life-changing decision in just a few seconds, and all without saying a word to anyone about it, and while holding on to a big show-altering secret, and she conveys this amazing poignancy with just the look on her face. 

I wrote this in another thread, but what the heck, I'll repeat it here.  Sometimes TV shows just don't grab you.  And that's okay.  Lost never grabbed me, SGU has.  Obviously SGU hasn't grabbed you or a lot of people, and that's fine.  I guess I just think some of the criticism has been absurdly harsh, and the fact that people started leveling it years before anyone had even filmed a second of the show lends it even less credence.

As to their chemistry, the point of the show is that this particular group of people isn't supposed to have much chemistry, since they weren't all part of the team which was planning to go through the wormhole.  But I think in subsequent episodes we've seen some sparks of chemistry, and I think we'll see even more in season 2.  At least I hope that's the writers' and producers' plan. 

On STNG (and all Star Trek and the other Stargate shows, as well) the whole point was that this was a group of people who've signed on to being a group out doing the thing they've all signed on to do, so of course there's going to be chemistry there.  But many of the characters on SGU didn't sign up for a life of exploring the uncharted reaches of the universe; like a senator's daughter, for instance, didn't sign up for that, nor did an unemployed guy who had been playing video games in his mom's house.  As for chemistry between the actors themselves, when the point of the show is to show characters in difficulty and conflict, it's probably going to be difficult to find on-screen chemistry between the actors.

All of a sudden I find myself really defending this show, and I'm not sure why.  It is just a show, and I should really just relax.

I really liked BSG, and absolutely agree that the characters on that show were top-notch.  I had so much admiration for Tigh, and felt enormous sympathy for Roslin.  But there were tons of people who never watched or got into that show at all (I guess they were too busy watching America's Next Top Model), so tastes vary. 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to watch my Criterion edition of Bikini Car Wash IV.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: MartyS (Gromit) on May 29, 2010, 07:47:10 PM
As to their chemistry, the point of the show is that this particular group of people isn't supposed to have much chemistry, since they weren't all part of the team which was planning to go through the wormhole.  But I think in subsequent episodes we've seen some sparks of chemistry, and I think we'll see even more in season 2.  At least I hope that's the writers' and producers' plan. 

On STNG (and all Star Trek and the other Stargate shows, as well) the whole point was that this was a group of people who've signed on to being a group out doing the thing they've all signed on to do, so of course there's going to be chemistry there.  But many of the characters on SGU didn't sign up for a life of exploring the uncharted reaches of the universe; like a senator's daughter, for instance, didn't sign up for that, nor did an unemployed guy who had been playing video games in his mom's house.  As for chemistry between the actors themselves, when the point of the show is to show characters in difficulty and conflict, it's probably going to be difficult to find on-screen chemistry between the actors.

There can still be chemistry even if all the characters are not supposed to like each other or get along, hard to explain but I don't see it here.

 And I think you just pointed out a flaw in the show, people thrown together in an impossible situation will mostly band together, to push continual conflict seems artificial and unappealing.  The show just seems like people fighting in a burning house.

Kind of sorry now I started this thread but I probably would not have even tried watching any more of it had I not been reminded, so if it had gotten better I would have missed out.  Maybe if it's still on I'll try again half way through season 2.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: WeatherServo9 on May 30, 2010, 01:13:41 PM
There can still be chemistry even if all the characters are not supposed to like each other or get along, hard to explain but I don't see it here.

I do get that.  Often times chemistry between rivals adds a little something-something to the enjoyment.

I also agree that they have sort of loaded down the show with conflict, and sometimes that's annoying.  I just think the point of the show is for them to work out those conflicts with each other, and I think the main thing we disagree on is that you (and many others) would like to see that happen a lot faster than it is.

Since season 1 is almost done, you'll have to wait 'till the fall to watch any of season 2, and then 2011 to start watching halfway through it.  I suspect you'll forget unless you put it on your calendar!   ;)
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: Halifirien on May 31, 2010, 06:09:18 PM
I'm a Stargate Universe fan. A big part of my liking the show is that I've only watched maybe six episodes of SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis so the shift in tone doesn't really bother me. The episodes I'd seen always felt so cheesy that I couldn't get into them. I look at SGU as the Deep Space Nine of the Stargate franchise: darker, serialized, and far more interesting. I'm curious to see where they're going with it.
Title: Re: SGU
Post by: WeatherServo9 on June 01, 2010, 07:44:39 PM
I look at SGU as the Deep Space Nine of the Stargate franchise: darker, serialized, and far more interesting. I'm curious to see where they're going with it.

I think that's an accurate analogy.  I also agree that curiosity about where the show is headed is the main thing that keeps me interested. 

Season one has been a lot about establishing how to survive on the ship and how to work and live together.  So now that a lot of that is resolved (although not all of it, of course), I'm looking forward to seeing what direction the show takes in season 2.  Although with all this hatred for it, I don't know that there's much of a hope for a season 3.  Maybe it will find a strong, steady fan base on Tuesday nights in the fall, maybe not.  We'll see.