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General Discussion => Books 'n Readin' => Topic started by: Rude on January 13, 2007, 02:14:46 PM

Title: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Rude on January 13, 2007, 02:14:46 PM
...

Are any of you guys hooked on this thing? I took a long break from comics... but now that i work so close to a comic book store, a quick trip during my lunch break has become a regular thing. I need something quick and easy to read while i scarf down a sandwhich or whatever, ya' know?

Anyway, this whole Civil War thing is pretty lame. I thought Marvel had learned their lesson, but this crossover thing is pretty big. Although, i've only picked up the actual Civil War comics... not any of the tie-ins. It's just so gimmicky and predictable... putting Spider-Man and Captain American on exactly the opposite sides that their characters would take? Lame.

I won't go too into the whole thing in case i'm tipping my hand on my own personal geek factor. But the "choose your side" thing is pretty weak. And the fact that superheros decide that a law passed by the people doesn't sit right with them, so they're going to war over it... also weak.

So, um... End Of Rant.

-Rude

PS- Yeah, Ghost Rider relaunch!
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Teaflax on January 13, 2007, 02:47:04 PM
If you're going to pick up comis after a break, treat yourself to some quality instead: Y: The Last Man, Ex Machina, 100 Bullets, DMZ, Hellboy, Fables... There's a lot of quality out there, and not much of it is about superheroes.

Here's a sig graphic I made for another board where several of the other posters have these Civil War "taking sides" images in their signatures.
(http://www.supertrevligt.com/hidden/cw1.jpg)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: mrbasehart on January 13, 2007, 03:29:18 PM
If you're going to pick up comis after a break, treat yourself to some quality instead: Y: The Last Man, Ex Machina, 100 Bullets, DMZ, Hellboy, Fables... There's a lot of quality out there, and not much of it is about superheroes.

Amen, brother.  I quit monthly comics awhile back, but I still pick up the trades of Y, Fables, and Ex Machina.  I also really enjoy The Walking Dead.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: SaucyRossy on January 13, 2007, 03:33:07 PM
My favorite new comic is easily Invincible simply awesome comic book. Worth getting the TPB. Also Astonishing X-men has been great and it looks like the new buffy season eight comic should be great.

You can't go wrong with all three of those.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: SaucyRossy on January 13, 2007, 03:35:04 PM
Oh and as for Civil War...I have only read the first three issues and to me it has been pretty cool but some of the stuff like others have stated seems completely out of character....Spidey revealing his identity? WHAA?!
but some of the other stuff has been really awesome like Cap starting a underground resistance and Tony Stark turning into the super villain that has been inside of him all along....
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Sharktopus on January 13, 2007, 03:55:55 PM
As a Marvel zombie, I must admit that Civil War and most of its tie-ins are quite addictive, but mostly in a train wreck way. It's like Marvel feels compelled to be the anti-DC and change everything. Joe Quesada likes to talk about genies and bottles. Well, as much fun as I'm having reading Civil War, it's one big ass genie that they'll have to cram back in.

Not to mention they've got a big-budget, live-action Iron man movie in the works just as they make Tony Stark the arch-villain of the Marvel Universe. Smart one. ::)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Pak-Man on January 14, 2007, 01:30:39 AM
I've actually only recently become a big comic reader (House of M hooked me, and now Civil War's keeping me hooked) and I've been enjoying the main story, but I have more fun reading all the tie-ins. Front Line has been really cool and the Spider Man comics have gone in cool directions since Peter Parker unmasked.

But I'm a Hulk fan. Planet Hulk has been awesome and I can't WAIT to see what this "World War Hulk" is gonna be all about. All I know is it's been many, many issues since Hulk's been calm enough to turn into Banner.. :^)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: starfighter on February 19, 2007, 12:12:43 AM
   Thought I would move this up in line since this is the week the final issue is supposed to ship.
   Will they find some way to erase Spider-Man's secret identity from all humanity?  How long will it take before Iron Man and Captain America completely forget about it?  Will any of the "permanent" changes last longer than 6 months?  Will the most interesting thing be when the Hulk returns to Earth and wants to trash everybody who tried to dump him on another planet?   Will Marvel find some magical way to get all the movie goers who will buy Spider-Man 3 tickets to show some interest in the actual comic books again?
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Pak-Man on February 19, 2007, 12:21:52 AM
   Thought I would move this up in line since this is the week the final issue is supposed to ship.
   Will they find some way to erase Spider-Man's secret identity from all humanity?  How long will it take before Iron Man and Captain America completely forget about it?  Will any of the "permanent" changes last longer than 6 months?  Will the most interesting thing be when the Hulk returns to Earth and wants to trash everybody who tried to dump him on another planet?   Will Marvel find some magical way to get all the movie goers who will buy Spider-Man 3 tickets to show some interest in the actual comic books again?
I think Spider-Man's cat is out of the bag for good. It gives his comic a fresh shot of adrenaline and I don't really see how they can undo what's been done so far.
Iron Man and Captain America, however, WILL forget about it and bring it up on occasion whenever the situation calls for it in true Marvel fashion. :^)
I think the registration act could go either way. Even if Captain America "wins" it's still supposed to be a government mandate. They could throw the law out the window, or they could keep it, but dethrone Iron Man. It could provide some neat story twists in Marvel comics to come to keep registration around.
The most interesting thing will, indeed, be seeing Hulk come back to take on Earth. I know I can't wait for it. :^)
Marvel's magical way of getting 'em interested in the comic is to bring back the black suit. They haven't explained why they stuck him back in the suit yet, but everyone KNOWS why he REALLY did it. :^)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Rude on February 19, 2007, 11:08:09 AM
...

Oh yeah... that series still hasn't ended yet, huh? I wouldn't worry about whether Marvel plans on hitting the "reset" button anytime soon, though. This series is going to go on and on and on... Every title carries some sort of "war" banner across it's front cover these days. And i imagine they're all going to for a long time.

Even Ghost Rider had some Civil War thread this month. And i made the mistake of buying a tie-in issue called The Return. (Does anyone even care about Captain Marvel?) I'm guessing that sort of thing will last for awhile. But as far as permanent? I think Spiderman's identity is out there... that's about it~

-Rude
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Pak-Man on February 21, 2007, 08:18:49 PM
Well I read Issue 7. It was surprising...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Compound on February 22, 2007, 08:31:11 PM
Well, I'm on the "Yeah, that didn't work" side of the Civil War debate.  Nothing worked, logic wise. I didn't buy the whole "New Warriors are teh suck!" bit. I didn't buy the reaction to Stamford. I didn't buy the "OMG! We need registration!" bit. The prison in the dimension that causes people to go insane? Ooh. Good idea there. Reed's rationale for joining up kept changing from comic to comic. Pete's unmasking? Clone Thor? Seriously? Captain Mar-Vell coming back to life?  Sigh. And who the heck thought, "Hey, let's give the Green Goblin control of a government sponsored group of thinly reformed super villians! Surely nothing will go wrong there!" (At least on that one, I have that Warren Ellis will make it interesting. He seems to be operating with the idea of "Let's show people why this is a bad idea.") 

And the ending, which I won't mention here to keep from spoiling it, was rather unsatisfying. At this point, I think I'm rooting for the Hulk to level the entire 616 universe when he gets back. Except for Nextwave. And Squirrel Girl, who would totally mop the floor with the Hulk. Look, I know it sold well, but both companies? Can you lay off the "World

On the bright side, I can recommend "The Civil War in 30 Seconds", which is found over here:
http://the-isb.blogspot.com/2007/02/civil-war-in-30-seconds.html
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Jinto on February 24, 2007, 06:26:34 PM
I definitely recommend hunting for titles that will end. This on-and-on-and-on-and-on thing with Xmen, Superman, Batman, and all those other titles that never end is just a money drain. Just like games these days that have "booster packs". It's all a rip-off.

Anyway, George R. R. Martin's "Hedge Knight" is a good 6 issue or so series that was recently combined into a hardback graphic novel format (and trade paperback before that). I remember the old 6 issue 'On a Pale Horse 6' series long ago based on Piers Anthony's book by the same name had really good art, not that that helps you with current titles I know.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Fuzzy Necromancer on February 27, 2007, 05:50:25 PM
Personally, I think that Superheroes only work in fiction if they are few and far between. Too many cooks spoil the broth, and too many crossovers and characters in a profession that is by its nature a job for the few and the proud results in pages being soaked with the ink of a massive greed-induced fangasm.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Rude on February 27, 2007, 08:25:15 PM
...pages being soaked with the ink of a massive greed-induced fangasm.


Eeewwww... That line made me throw up a little bit in my mouth. I never wanna' hear the words "soaked" and "fangasm" together in the same sentence again, okay everyone?

In psuedo-related news: I picked up the new animated Iron Man movie. It was kinda' fun and entertaining. And, after having Iron Man shoved down my throat as a result of this Civil War craptacular, i've decided to check out the character in comics. Unfortunately, i think he's now featured in about 10 different monthly titles~ Damn you Marvel, you greedy bastards!

-Rude
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Sharktopus on March 06, 2007, 10:12:26 PM
...pages being soaked with the ink of a massive greed-induced fangasm.


Eeewwww... That line made me throw up a little bit in my mouth. I never wanna' hear the words "soaked" and "fangasm" together in the same sentence again, okay everyone?

In psuedo-related news: I picked up the new animated Iron Man movie. It was kinda' fun and entertaining. And, after having Iron Man shoved down my throat as a result of this Civil War craptacular, i've decided to check out the character in comics. Unfortunately, i think he's now featured in about 10 different monthly titles~ Damn you Marvel, you greedy bastards!

-Rude

Iron Man was cool when he was a Howard Hughes-type iconoclast rather than an arrogant tool of the state. But I imagine they'll have his character back to status quo in time for the big movie next summer. Read Warren Ellis and Adi Granov's "Extremis" for a good look at the real Tony Stark. Sweet art, too:
(http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/1104/IROM001_COV.jpg)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: starfighter on March 06, 2007, 10:28:21 PM
     Iron Man has had to have his origin revised several times over the years just to preserve Marvel's desire to reflect the changing years while the characters don't age.  Tony Stark developing his armor in Viet Nam in the early years of the war would have him on the high side of sixty if he aged normally. The same problem is built into the FF with Reed and Ben having originally fought in WW2, so adjusting the origins makes a certain amount of sense.  But I wasn't too crazy of the Iron Man toon establishing that he'd built several suits of armor before his injury. Oh well, the origin will probably be different with Robert Downey, too.
    The more Marvel and DC try to make me buy multiple titles of the same character, the more I seem to be deciding that I don't need any of them.  I just wish DC would let me pick out what Showcases to release. I'm waiting for a combined Detective Chimp/Rex the Wonder Dog volume. 500+ pages of Carmine Infantino and Gil Kane artwork!!
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Sharktopus on March 06, 2007, 10:51:55 PM
     Iron Man has had to have his origin revised several times over the years just to preserve Marvel's desire to reflect the changing years while the characters don't age.  Tony Stark developing his armor in Viet Nam in the early years of the war would have him on the high side of sixty if he aged normally. The same problem is built into the FF with Reed and Ben having originally fought in WW2, so adjusting the origins makes a certain amount of sense.  But I wasn't too crazy of the Iron Man toon establishing that he'd built several suits of armor before his injury. Oh well, the origin will probably be different with Robert Downey, too.
    The more Marvel and DC try to make me buy multiple titles of the same character, the more I seem to be deciding that I don't need any of them.  I just wish DC would let me pick out what Showcases to release. I'm waiting for a combined Detective Chimp/Rex the Wonder Dog volume. 500+ pages of Carmine Infantino and Gil Kane artwork!!

Big ups for Bobo, the Detective Chimp!
(http://wizarduniverse.com/_images_/001604/Line-of-the-Week.gif)

I believe the live-action movie's origin for Iron Man will be remarkably similar to the original comic, simply exchangin Afghanistan for Vietnam. Jon Favreau seems intent to use as much of the comics as he can can, within reason, and I thank him for that. Thanks Jon. You're so money.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Rude on March 06, 2007, 11:28:46 PM
Quote from: Sharktopus
...rather than an arrogant tool of the state.

...  ::) ...

-Rude
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: BobEvil on March 16, 2007, 04:52:39 AM
Yanno, I personally quite enjoyed this series. I remember reading issue 1 and being disappointed about the wait for issue 2 as my biggest complaint. I thought it was exciting and the hero vs. hero dynamic really interested me. Hell, I'm a huge Spider-Man fan (like 300 issues of the web slinging S.O.B over the years) and I found his unmasking to be an interesting twist. So far, they seem to want to stick with all that's happened. Spidey's taking a huge hit, so is Cap...and for those who don't know....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm looking forward to these new changes. Will I be buying any of the new books? Nah, sticking with my Spider-Man titles, New Avengers, and of course, picking up Fallen Son.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: AmazingThor on March 16, 2007, 05:25:34 AM
Yanno, I personally quite enjoyed this series. I remember reading issue 1 and being disappointed about the wait for issue 2 as my biggest complaint. I thought it was exciting and the hero vs. hero dynamic really interested me. Hell, I'm a huge Spider-Man fan (like 300 issues of the web slinging S.O.B over the years) and I found his unmasking to be an interesting twist. So far, they seem to want to stick with all that's happened. Spidey's taking a huge hit, so is Cap...and for those who don't know....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm looking forward to these new changes. Will I be buying any of the new books? Nah, sticking with my Spider-Man titles, New Avengers, and of course, picking up Fallen Son.
It's about frickin' time Aunt May got it. She was in her 70s when the series started so she's gotta be like a 100!
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: BobEvil on March 16, 2007, 05:38:47 AM
Yeah, I never got how comic time works. Technically, Spider-Man should be in his late fifties at this point. And let's not forget...it's not time that got ol' May, so really, she could have kept on going! And since I don't know (and don't want any spoilers...) what's going to happen, she could technically still survive....or be retconned back in to the story in another 4 years.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: starfighter on March 16, 2007, 08:57:06 AM
   They've tried to kill May Parker before but it never stuck.  That's one of the problems with reading Marvels for as long as I have.  I've seen Professor X, Magneto, Cap, Reed Richards, Wonder Man, etc die several times so I wouldn't have gotten all that worked up about Cap's current death.  I've been looking at the eBay auctions of Captain America #25 and thinking there are going to be a lot of disappointed buyers in a couple months when Steve is back and Frank Castle has to fight him for some reason.
    I was running my comic shop back when Superman's death hit on a slow news day and that delivery day was the single most insane day I ever had in the business.  At least DC did the smart thing and did a quick trade paperback of the seven-issue storyline and let us know about it so I was able to let people know that they could read the whole story soon.  Didn't help with the speculator-types but I never worried about them since I knew whatever I sold them they would be back in six months or less, expecting me to buy back at inflated prices.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Road_Element on May 24, 2007, 10:16:31 PM
Personally i dont care these big summer events. Mainly because they always make these big changes. Which means they either have to kill off tons of characters like Infinite Crisis with Superboy and Wally West (aka The Flash). Or with Civil War where they turn characters like Iron man & Mr Fantastic into totally jerks or Unmask Spider-man or kill off Captain America.. No offence but like my Super-Heros to be like the way i let anyone who borrow my car. They better bring it back looking good and not screwed up with dents and damages. Which is why alot of the times i wind up reading older comics.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: SaucyRossy on May 24, 2007, 11:21:13 PM
I am sorry but change is good in mainstream comics. You can't justify having the FF never grow or develop in character because you want it the way it was. Personally I can see why Reed felt the way he did, it was explained multiple times that he was able to see in his opinion that this was the only way the human race wouldn't be destroyed.....in his mind the end justified the means. While I am on the side of Cap and the anti registration crew I can see Iron Man and Reed's points....


You know who came out as the main badass of this? Definitely Luke Cage....he is awesome.  The comic where he tells Jessica to take his baby to Canada and stays at home and there is a knock on his door right at midnight when the registration goes into effect is so great.

Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Johnny Unusual on May 25, 2007, 07:25:26 AM
I think change is good and I like the new direction of the Marvel Universe, but my problem was that I was sort of promised good arguments for both sides and for the most part Iron Man came off as a villain.  If he came off as "The Man", that's OK because then there would be much better reasons for people to both side with and against him, but only a few books paint him in a sympathetic light and any good arguments are undercut by his dickweed nature.

As for Iron Man's own book: I haven't been reading it, but I think that the most logical direction right now is to make him more like Citizen Kane: a man who was too proud, too arrogant, made too many compromises (or too few, depending on how you look at it) and have it so the readers flip flop between caring about him and supporting his ideas but finding his executions questionable.

As for death, Even Joe Q admitted that Cap will probably return, but I think they killed him because both the liberal and conservative readers wanted Cap to be theirs: Conservatives wanted solving Iraq and liberals wanted him kicking out Bush.  I think Marvel wanted the character to take a break from the current political climate.  I don't know if I agree with that, but however you want to roll.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Pak-Man on May 25, 2007, 10:16:24 AM
Civil War did what any good Summer-Event should do. It opened up some awesome storytelling for a lot of different characters.

And what surprised ME was that even though Iron Man often looked like the bad guy, he ended up WINNING and his ideas have been nothing but beneficial to the Marvel Universe since the war was over (If you don't count ol' Cap.)  So now Iron Man gets to experience complete victory plus the guiltiest of guilts.

But Civil War is so one-month-ago. Bring on World War Hulk! :^)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Sharktopus on May 25, 2007, 10:55:48 AM
You know who came out as the main badass of this? Definitely Luke Cage....he is awesome.  The comic where he tells Jessica to take his baby to Canada and stays at home and there is a knock on his door right at midnight when the registration goes into effect is so great.

I was thinking about this, and the only man in the Marvel U that comes anywhere close to deserving up Cap's mantle (for the interim) in Cage. Think about it.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Hebs on May 25, 2007, 11:14:43 AM
You know who came out as the main badass of this? Definitely Luke Cage....he is awesome.  The comic where he tells Jessica to take his baby to Canada and stays at home and there is a knock on his door right at midnight when the registration goes into effect is so great.
I was thinking about this, and the only man in the Marvel U that comes anywhere close to deserving up Cap's mantle (for the interim) in Cage. Think about it.

I'm so glad something finally happens - it seems like so many books come out with just the same dialogue re-hashed over and over, and the same people are banged up but pretty much okay, but finally - there are consequences.

But just so we all know who the toughest guy in the series is -  this is a little gift to the board - from the man himself. 
(http://www.undercoverfish.com/boscon2_1_.jpg)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Sharktopus on May 25, 2007, 11:29:16 AM
Say whatever you want about Brian Bendis, but his man-crush for Luke Cage has been unequivocably good for Marvel. Just don't screw it up, Tyrese (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401601/).

(http://unclebear.com/images/uploads/81301.jpg)
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Road_Element on May 25, 2007, 11:15:35 PM
I didnt mind Infinite Crisis as much as Civil War. I mean we all know that there going to bring half these characters back anyways and a character like Captain America is guaranteed to be back. But really gets to me is taking characters and totally changing that characters personality for a sales gimmick.. Thats like having Superman stealing nukes and sell them to 3rd World country. Or Batman blowing up half of Gothem just to get to one villain. Its just something these characters wouldnt do. Thank god DC didnt do that in IC. As far Spider-man Being Unmasked. Well My Question is why should he even wear the costume anymore. Everybody knows who he his and unlike Captain America. Hes not a symbol of a whole country. So why wear the costume. He could do his job just as good in plain clothing. Plus that alot of the appeal of Spider-man was that he had to deal with all his problem while maintaining his secret identity. Not to mention all the other crap marvel has done to Spider-man like the Gwen Stacy/Green Goblin sex thing and turning Spidey into Iron Man lacky. Now dont all you get upset. This is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Goshzilla on May 26, 2007, 12:37:50 AM
I really got into the early re running of the Teen Titans which started with writer Geoff Johns way back when it came out around the same time as the cartoon series. It was just an all around good running of a comic book series that needed a decent follow up after the Judas Contract story arc. Good stuff but I lost interest after Superboy was killed, there was the Cassandra/Batgirl turned heel  and joining up with Deathstroke to defeat the Titans, but it just didn't hold my interest the same as the build up to the inifite crisis did. So I pretty much dropped reading it after that.

Started up on Sonic the Hedgehog comics, they are at least trying to get something going where Tails and Sonic are enemies not sure how it will play out in the end, the writer said it will be in there for at least three issues building up from issue 176 which comes out next month.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Hebs on May 26, 2007, 10:02:57 AM
Say whatever you want about Brian Bendis, but his man-crush for Luke Cage has been unequivocably good for Marvel. Just don't screw it up, Tyrese (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401601/).

(http://unclebear.com/images/uploads/81301.jpg)

 :o  Why don't they just add "You one baaad mamajama"
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: SaucyRossy on May 26, 2007, 04:19:05 PM
Yeah can I go on record in saying that Luke Cage is my favorite comic character right now (excluding members of the runaways) he is awesome in so many ways and his marriage to Jessica rules.
Title: Re: Marvel Comics: Civil War
Post by: Sharktopus on May 27, 2007, 11:11:26 AM
Baby Cage doesn't have a name yet, does she?