RiffTrax Forum

Help => OLD RiffTrax Player (archived) => Topic started by: xrampage16 on June 30, 2009, 02:48:34 PM

Title: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: xrampage16 on June 30, 2009, 02:48:34 PM
Currently planning on building an open source plugin for VLC to be used as an alternative to the Rifftrax Player.

I am planning on building a SVN Repository to store the code, and would appreciate help in this endeavor.

Please supply me with all questions to help ensure that this project gets started.

Thanks for your help in advance,
Cameron
Title: Re: Rifftrax Player to be Open Source
Post by: torgosPizza on June 30, 2009, 03:52:44 PM
Just to bring everyone else up to speed, we've looked into other options (Java, etc.) and it seems like, since we already recommend VLC Player (http://www.videolan.org) to watch our VOD content, that this seems a reasonable approach to a new, open-source player - a plugin that we could package on our site with a link to download both VLC itself and the RiffTrax plugin. We're not quite sure what this means for the future of the .riff file - there's the possibility it will hang around for a while, but eventually we'd like to not even require it.

The best part of this direction is, VLC is now packaged with its own codec. Part of the problem with the current player is that, for the most part, it requires a DVD to have captions in order to perform the best syncing (which is still not always accurate). That's a huge problem when it comes to comedy, in which timing is everything. Utilizing VLC's own codec allows us to look directly at DVD timing information on a frame-accurate precision, ensuring us much better synchronicity and user experience.

Not to mention that it's cross-platform and open source.

If there's anyone here that already has experience writing in VLC, or working with DVD information, including codecs, hardware standards, anything of that nature, please PM either myself or Cameron. We want to leverage the community in this and think it'll be a great project, resulting in a fantastic player that we can all be proud of.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on June 30, 2009, 03:57:41 PM
I'm going to open this thread up for general comments and questions. Anyone wishing to actually be a part of the development process should PM xrampage16.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Minnesota on June 30, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
My only comment would be, VLC player has been my player of choice on both Mac and PC for several years now. Good choice, hope it all works out for you guys.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Edward J Grug III on June 30, 2009, 05:30:32 PM
My only comment would be, VLC player has been my player of choice on both Mac and PC for several years now. Good choice, hope it all works out for you guys.

Ditto.

Will it work with PAL DVDs?
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: FLOCK of RABID SHEEP?!?! on June 30, 2009, 09:29:50 PM
this means that the linux users out there (like me, sorta) can watch riffs, yay! go you :P
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on June 30, 2009, 10:46:49 PM
Exactly! Linux and Mac users can rejoice. And yes, it should work with PAL discs too - since essentially the player won't really care what DVD it's playing, as long as we can get it sync information.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Edward J Grug III on June 30, 2009, 11:00:31 PM
Brilliant!
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: RoninFox on June 30, 2009, 11:34:24 PM
Sounds like the best of all possible avenues to take, I look forward to seeing it work.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Indomitus on July 01, 2009, 09:57:07 AM
Sounds like a fantastic direction to go, to me.  I hope it works.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: k1 on July 01, 2009, 04:56:23 PM
Exactly! Linux and Mac users can rejoice. And yes, it should work with PAL discs too - since essentially the player won't really care what DVD it's playing, as long as we can get it sync information.

Hooray!

I'm assuming it'll also mean older PC's that couldn't handle the RT player will also be able to work (provided VLC works on it)?
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: xrampage16 on July 01, 2009, 05:00:09 PM
Hopefully. this plugin, since it is making use of numerous *extra* features will most likely be more resource intensive than a normal VLC build. But, it should have a higher probability of running on your machine.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: k1 on July 01, 2009, 05:13:26 PM
Hopefully. this plugin, since it is making use of numerous *extra* features will most likely be more resource intensive than a normal VLC build. But, it should have a higher probability of running on your machine.

Nice!  The player works fine on my tower and my wife's laptop, so no problems there.  I'm just glad it'll most likely work on my parents PC now!  (We've used VLC to watch some iRiff & VOD stuff.)

And especially happy about it working on Mac!
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: FLOCK of RABID SHEEP?!?! on July 01, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
and my ubuntu netbook, if i ever go traveling long enough to be away from my big screen tv :P
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: ja30278 on July 03, 2009, 10:58:42 AM
Outstanding news guys. I PM'd xrampage separately about contributing, but just wanted to post here and say what an awesome direction this is.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: RichSmith on July 05, 2009, 10:10:56 AM
Awesome idea, guys. I have three operating systems in use, and Vista wasn't liking the RiffTrax Player, so that is out.  I'd love to watch them on my mac or on my boot of Ubuntu.

Thanks for offering this.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: FBX on July 05, 2009, 11:48:46 PM
I'm not seeing any sort of "plugin" feature (like in winAmp), are you planning on forking this project and just turning in into a specialized player or is there something I am missing...?
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: ja30278 on July 06, 2009, 08:14:32 AM
I'm not seeing any sort of "plugin" feature (like in winAmp), are you planning on forking this project and just turning in into a specialized player or is there something I am missing...?

There are a couple of ways that they could presumably go about this, depending on the language and how much customization is required.

 VLC builds almost everything in terms of 'modules', including the GUI. ( http://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Modules ). Presumably, a 'lightweight' player could be made by creating a custom GUI module that used the existing 'Bridge' support for to handle the mixing. If they go this route, it's possible that a 'riff' gui could be included by default in VLC, which would have a lot of advantages.

Otherwise, (this is much more likely) it's a matter of wrapping a gui around VLC's language specific bindings. Using this approach, the player could potentially re-use some of the art assets from the current player (and possibly some of the gui code?), and just use VLC to do the heavy lifting of decoding.

Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: downinfront on July 06, 2009, 02:13:03 PM
here's a question i have:

i do the same thing with my dvds that i do with my cds -- i rip them to a hard drive using handbrake and then put my dvds in a binder stored in back of a closet some where...

the problem i had with the rifftrax player [other than it not working on my macs] is that you needed to have the disc to make it work.

will using VLC eliminate this problem, so i could sync a rifftrax mp3 with an mp4 or avi? or would i still have to break out my binders and find the disc?

[i know that in the scope of problems in this world, this is but a small one -- but nonetheless it would make my life easier if i could just use my movie drive...]

ta.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on July 06, 2009, 02:42:10 PM
This is something we were just discussing. I think a goal would be to allow syncing with a consistent codec, such as Divx or Apple's mpeg-4 format (which would allow you to buy something from iTunes, for example, and be able to sync the track up with it). This would surely mean more availability for titles, which seems like an easy justification for such an advantageous feature.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: ja30278 on July 06, 2009, 07:27:28 PM
This is something we were just discussing. I think a goal would be to allow syncing with a consistent codec, such as Divx or Apple's mpeg-4 format (which would allow you to buy something from iTunes, for example, and be able to sync the track up with it). This would surely mean more availability for titles, which seems like an easy justification for such an advantageous feature.

It would be nice if the player itself could report back file hashes and user-set offsets (or whatever sync scheme you use) to a central server (anonymously of course) in order to automatically build a database of sync points for various files. Obviously you guys would 'prime the pump' with sync data for official releases (against the DVD and possibly itunes file), but for other files, once one person went to the trouble of setting up the sync points, everyone else using that particular file gets the sync data automatically.

Harmony does this with their remotes, and I think it's a particularly brilliant feature.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on July 06, 2009, 08:34:25 PM
That is a cool feature, and while I don't think that's something we'll have from the get-go, it's an example of where the open source model could come in handy. Another user who is a developer could code that feature for us, and give us a patch that would incorporate that functionality for inclusion with a future build.

Speaking of which, it looks like the potential best way to go about this is to fork our own branch of VLC. Essentially we'd keep source code untouched, but create our own 'module' or 3rd-party library that would include all of our Riff functionality. This would get compiled locally by us into Linux, Windows and Mac builds and pushed out to the site someplace. That way when VLC updates their source, we can update our local branches accordingly and push out a new version.

I don't think it's the BEST solution, but it appears that plugins don't appear in VLC the way I thought they would. This does appear to be the next-best thing, though.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: k1 on July 06, 2009, 08:50:49 PM
This is something we were just discussing. I think a goal would be to allow syncing with a consistent codec, such as Divx or Apple's mpeg-4 format (which would allow you to buy something from iTunes, for example, and be able to sync the track up with it). This would surely mean more availability for titles, which seems like an easy justification for such an advantageous feature.

It would be nice if the player itself could report back file hashes and user-set offsets (or whatever sync scheme you use) to a central server (anonymously of course) in order to automatically build a database of sync points for various files. Obviously you guys would 'prime the pump' with sync data for official releases (against the DVD and possibly itunes file), but for other files, once one person went to the trouble of setting up the sync points, everyone else using that particular file gets the sync data automatically.

I know I'd be more inclined to purchase feature film iRiffs if that were the case.  (Or create them.)
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on July 06, 2009, 08:53:57 PM
Part of the goal of the last player was to let iRiffers make their own .riff files too. So the way that this is going to go, I'm sure that it'd be doable. And it'd probably be way easier, too, since everything about the files will be standardized (including the frame or other timing info from the DVD). It's definitely something worth looking into.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Shinigami on July 06, 2009, 10:31:59 PM
Well, I don't have VLC or video coding experience in particular, but I got a degree in Computer Engineering. I would be interested in contributing.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on July 07, 2009, 08:53:14 AM
Well it's written in C++ so if you have experience in that, you might be alright. PM xrampage16 if you've got the skills. :)
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Shinigami on July 07, 2009, 03:53:44 PM
Well it's written in C++ so if you have experience in that, you might be alright. PM xrampage16 if you've got the skills. :)

As a matter of fact I do and already got a hold of him. Unfortunately, VLC 1.0.0 just dropped and due to traffic constraints I can't access the site's docs and do research. Annoying as hell.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on July 07, 2009, 07:28:06 PM
Yeah they took the Docs down yesterday, there were 404s all over the place. I was able to git the latest code and compile it on my Mac, so once I've done some digging to figure out exactly how we can approach this, I'll try to get my hands dirty and help out. I'm the junior C++ guy (I'm actually starting to learn it just so I can help on this project - it seems similar enough to PHP, so the learning curve shouldn't be too bad) - so if you have any pointers feel free to share them.

I think I'll create a "Player development" board so that we can all share thoughts and information about this as we move forward.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: FLOCK of RABID SHEEP?!?! on July 07, 2009, 07:41:17 PM
from my short stint in c++ i realized how important it was to have a font that made it easier to tell the difference between "I" upper case "i" and "l" lower case "L"...
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: FBX on July 08, 2009, 01:48:29 AM
I think biggest hurdle will be getting the thing to compile. Seems like every open source software project seems to forget that not everybody has every single library known to man already (properly) installed on their machine. The readme that ships with it seems a tad out of date with the installation instructions as well. Will be waiting for wiki.videolan.org to come back up...
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on July 08, 2009, 09:13:20 AM
I was able to compile it without any problems on OSX... xrampage16's Windows XP machine seems to be a little harder, but I'm sure it'll work out.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Shinigami on July 08, 2009, 07:15:07 PM
Yeah they took the Docs down yesterday, there were 404s all over the place. I was able to git the latest code and compile it on my Mac, so once I've done some digging to figure out exactly how we can approach this, I'll try to get my hands dirty and help out. I'm the junior C++ guy (I'm actually starting to learn it just so I can help on this project - it seems similar enough to PHP, so the learning curve shouldn't be too bad) - so if you have any pointers feel free to share them.

I think I'll create a "Player development" board so that we can all share thoughts and information about this as we move forward.

I'm looking at some the source I managed to download before the version drop. A few things of note.

VLC is coded in C, not C++. A few modules are in C++ including the gui, but otherwise everything else including the core library is in C.

It looks like the VLC module system is designed so that each module only has one parent and possibly multiple children. This might make things difficult for mixing the audio.

VLC already has modules for audio mixing. The real question is whether they will mix streams from two separate decoders. The big thing I'm trying to figure out right now is how the module's are linked and what actually does the linking.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on July 08, 2009, 09:14:14 PM
Oh yeah, true, the VLC site does say C/C++ IIRC...

Thanks for taking the head start, I've been doing some reading up on it but we haven't dug too much into the core. Feel free to post in the VLC board anything you come across that's worth noting.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: emerson999 on July 09, 2009, 09:17:51 AM
Thank you! The only windows box we have here is a bootcamp partition on a mac, and for whatever reason the official player has never worked there. Other than that, it's just linux and macs all over the place. It'd be so nice to be able to actually autosync without the usual process of needing to rip the dvds and splice in the audio.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: xrampage16 on July 09, 2009, 04:39:03 PM
Anyone setting up their Cygwin environment? I'm having some major issues setting up the libavcodec to run and compile in cygwin.

Generally, it seems to be best to install the linked packages along with ffmpeg, but ffmpeg is even more of a nightmare to install on cygwin than linux (I know since I installed it all from source on the rifftrax server).

Anyone else running into this issue and come up with a solution?

I'm currently building my vanilla build of VLC without livavcodec support, but am figuring that that might bite me down the road.

Let me know.

Thanks,
Cameron

P.S. I am obtaining everyone's gmail accounts so that we can communicate over chat, as well as setup a google document. Please PM me this info if you are interested.

Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: JackTheRIFFER on July 12, 2009, 09:24:25 AM
Oh yeah!  That is great!  I've been wanting the Rifftrax player for my Mac for a long time, and VLC is what I use for almost everything on both my Mac and PC!   :clap:
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: ReiCow on July 16, 2009, 12:51:22 PM
Moo,

I have it compiled and working in cygwin (vista 64). I have also made an autoinstaller.

What should I work on now?

Cheers,
ReiCow
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on July 16, 2009, 02:22:12 PM
RelCow,

I just gave you permissions to chime in at our "VLC" board. (It's at the top of the main board index.) Feel free to read over that. Right now we're discussing the issues we're having with how to combine the multiple audio stream inputs.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: ZerothirtySeven on October 31, 2009, 03:17:24 PM
Has There been any Progress On this plug-in? I would really love to try this sucker out, also Hoping it will enable me to use My Blu-ray's as well :-p
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: k1 on December 28, 2009, 02:23:22 PM
I'm not a developer or anything, but I'd be happy to volunteer as a tester if you need one.  I did a bunch of testing and whatnot in Project Management at my company back before I got laid off in March.

Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on December 28, 2009, 02:39:55 PM
Yeah I've been talking to the guys involved in the project just today. Hope to have a progress report soon.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Indomitus on December 29, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
I'm open to test as well.  I am an old-school programmer, speaking only a now-dead language but well versed in good vs bad programming practice.  I also have 2 systems that might be difficult to find testers for: a Windows 2000 laptop and an Ubuntu (Jaunty) laptop.  Beyond that, I'm rebuilding a Win2k desktop (the HD crashed) and might put together an XP machine to use exclusively with my HDTV.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on December 30, 2009, 10:43:31 AM
If anyone wants to help contribute to the development of the open source player, here's a donation page:

https://sourceforge.net/donate/index.php?group_id=291141

Thanks :)
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: bullwinkle on June 22, 2010, 02:35:24 PM
Still no player?

signed,

-a sad linux user
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: torgosPizza on June 23, 2010, 02:50:56 PM
Thanks for not helping!

Snarkiness aside, no, there is no player yet. If I could just wave my magic wand to make a player, I would, but we have one person dedicated to it who is volunteering some of his time (and being paid for the rest of it) to get things moving. We'll announce here when something is ready for public testing.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: bullwinkle on July 03, 2010, 08:51:48 AM
Rifftrax is a business!

Snarkiness aside, I help when I buy shorts.  I'm too poor to distribute handouts.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Lazarus Dark on July 04, 2010, 11:52:20 PM
Aw, where was this a year ago: http://hd.engadget.com/2010/07/04/vlc-1-1-released-adds-hardware-acceleration-and-new-codec-suppo/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EngadgetHd+%28Engadget+HD%29
Apparently a new VLC version has support for some kind of add-on/extension system. I'm wondering if this would make a riff player add-on easier?

Btw, as far as funding... I don't understand why you need donations or have any trouble with funding. This is an investment for Rifftrax, and I can guarantee a stable, functional player will sell more riffs. All of my Rifftrax-loving friends (about 10 or so at least) all come to my house to watch them. None of them buy riffs. Why? Not for lack of wanting to. The facts are: The average person does NOT have the patience for manual synching. The current riff player is finicky at best on my system and absolutely will NOT work on any of my friends computers with any reliability. And, well, lets face it, most people will NOT have the dvd, you need a player that can synch with various video files.

I guarantee you at least 5 or more dedicated riff-buyers just in my circle if you had a stable player; imagine all the others that would buy more if they had a simple, stable player. Then my friends can stop asking me to make a copy of a presyched version for them and Rifftrax will make more money.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: bullwinkle on July 05, 2010, 10:31:41 AM
amen.

I usually don't like to resort to snarky retorts, but I don't like the insinuation that my support of rifftrax isn't appreciated.  Manual synching is a pain in the a**, and it's smart business sense on their end to get a cross platform player up and running (without asking me to pay for it).  I'll remember that when I donate to rifftrax for anything that I perhaps may have seen that I didn't buy off the site (which I always do).  BTW, where did the rifftrax donate link go, with the hobo mike?
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: Lazarus Dark on August 10, 2010, 06:14:57 PM
BTW, where did the rifftrax donate link go, with the hobo mike?
Its there now, though personally I never saw the point. Even if you got a riff elsewhere... you could just go and buy the riff proper, no need to donate.

Anyway... so now the point has been pressed. I can't use the riff player anymore. I don't know why, I even tried uninstalling and reinstalling, both a version 1.1.1.5 and a version 1.9.8.8. Neither one works. I don't know why, I even tried disconnecting the internet (this used to work when there were server problems). So what happened and when do we get a new player.

I can't buy any more riffs if I don't have a player, I just don't have the patience for manual synching (and I like being able to pause too much, dvr has spoiled me)
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: ex_soldier_ff7 on September 11, 2010, 10:25:18 PM
as far as having to own the dvd, would it be possible to have a purchase/download movie option on the same page as the riff trax of that movie.lets say that i want the titanic riff but i dont own the dvd i could buy/download the rifftrax and then buy/download the movie, or if i wanted the jurassic park riff but i had the dvd i wouldnt need to purchase the movie but the option would still be there. this would be very helpful on the shorts and iriffs.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: RoninFox on September 12, 2010, 12:58:46 AM
as far as having to own the dvd, would it be possible to have a purchase/download movie option on the same page as the riff trax of that movie.lets say that i want the titanic riff but i dont own the dvd i could buy/download the rifftrax and then buy/download the movie, or if i wanted the jurassic park riff but i had the dvd i wouldnt need to purchase the movie but the option would still be there. this would be very helpful on the shorts and iriffs.

Rifftrax doesn't hold the rights to distribute a movie like Titanic, if they did they'd release it on thier own DVD or VOD file like they do with the shorts or public domain movies like Plan 9 and House on Haunted Hill.   At best they can link to somewhere else you can buy an official download, like they already do link to DVDs available on Amazon.
Title: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! Rifftrax Player to be Open Source!
Post by: ChadAlanJackson on November 30, 2010, 02:36:40 PM
Based on the VLC bent in this thread, I may be completely out of school with this suggestion just hear (or read) me out:

But it would seem to me that something based on the XBMC (also the basis for Boxee and other media center software, and it is also cross-platform) plug-in architecture would be a good investment.  These would also give a better experience, and avoid the "sittin' at my computer watching RiffTrax" syndrome.  Obviously a Windows Media Center integration would widen the market, but you know, one thing at a time.

There are also additional commercial opportunities available:
When a user puts in a DVD or Blu-Ray of a movie (... maybe even fire up the ripped file) that has a Rifftrax available, have the plugin notify them... if you integrate and streamline the purchasing process, you could move a lot more product.  Show the catalog of download-able content to give people an opportunity to buy, download and watch them all with their remote. Mindless and Seamless are good.  Sand-alone players are acceptable (and definitely better than nothing), but I think that if you are after more market share, this is the money shot.

I love what you guys are doing... keep at it.