Global Warming is a "Convenient Half-truth?"

[Reductio_ad_absurdum]

What are your thoughts based on this documentary?

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[Steve-O]

I haven't seen this particular documentary, but I did watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle" in its entirety several weeks ago.

Compelling stuff, and I've used a lot of that information to school any Prius-driving dolts I've run across since.  But I really didn't need any backup evidence to know that Al Gore is full of shit.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

and I've used a lot of that information to school any Prius-driving dolts

whats wrong with the prius?  its a pretty comfortable car, and it gets good gas milage. 

[RobtheBarbärian]

But I really didn't need any backup evidence to know that Al Gore is full of shit.

He's a politician. Why did for even one moment think his altruistic Captain Planet bullshit was honest?

[Steve-O]

and I've used a lot of that information to school any Prius-driving dolts

whats wrong with the prius?  its a pretty comfortable car, and it gets good gas milage. 

The Prius is fine, apart from looking more like a basketball shoe than a car.  The drivers are dolts, because they think they're being proud eco-warriors by driving a car that is environmentally-friendly, when in fact it is nothing of the sort.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

an interesting article although im curious about some of its facts and even more curious about its sources.  Im willing to beleive that a hybrid is more damaging to the enviroment than another non hybrid but i refuse to beleive this

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer

who in the hell expects a hummer to last 3 times longer than the average car?  and are we talking the h2 or a military hummer.  a military hummer will last that long because our maintanence is free. 

What the article DIDNt mention which i thought was interesting was this.  emissions on a prius vs that hummer while those vehicles on the road.  while we know that the prius is more damaging to the enviroment than the hummer to build but does having much better emissions for three years make up for it?

[Steve-O]

What the article DIDNt mention which i thought was interesting was this.  emissions on a prius vs that hummer while those vehicles on the road.  while we know that the prius is more damaging to the enviroment than the hummer to build but does having much better emissions for three years make up for it?

The source of the information is a study performed by CNW Research.  The entirety of the report -- all 458 pages of it -- can be found here.

Basically, that total energy cost is supposed to cover the entire life of the vehicle, from creation to driving to disposal.  So while the emissions are better on the Prius, the energy used in mining the nickel, transporting the nickel and battery, and of course, dispensing with the toxic chemical stew afterwards, more than makes up for the savings.

I agree with you that the 300,000 lifespan for the Hummer seems way high.  Here's the word from the report on how those are calculated for each model:

Finally, the Estimated Life in Miles is based on historical data as well as manufacturer
information and real-world life-cycle information that average the miles over comparable
historic models as well as a CNW analysis of repair and replacement as well as scrappage
records. In effect, the miles figure here is a realistic approximation of the likely life-cycle of the
individual models.

Sounds a little iffy to me.  If we assume a slightly more reasonable 150,000 miles, that puts us at $3.90 per mile.  Personally, I wouldn't have picked the Hummer for comparison purposes, but what do you want from a college newspaper?

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

Basically, that total energy cost is supposed to cover the entire life of the vehicle, from creation to driving to disposal.  So while the emissions are better on the Prius, the energy used in mining the nickel, transporting the nickel and battery, and of course, dispensing with the toxic chemical stew afterwards, more than makes up for the savings.

yeah well that sucks, but i still want a prius.  the article claims that the adjusted 45 miles to the gallon is bad but hey screw that its the best thing i know of on the market.  plus it gets better city mileage than freeway anyways due to the way the batteries are charged.  I know about the premiums currently mean i have to drive it for a long time to save, but im hoping by the time i need to buy a new car that will be different. 

I agree with you that the 300,000 lifespan for the Hummer seems way high.  Here's the word from the report on how those are calculated for each model:

the only way the 300000 miles thing that could work is if you are looking at military vehicles, because those are driven damn near nonstop and in great condition due to CONSTANT maintanence. 

[eegah]

and I've used a lot of that information to school any Prius-driving dolts

whats wrong with the prius?  its a pretty comfortable car, and it gets good gas milage. 

The Prius is fine, apart from looking more like a basketball shoe than a car.  The drivers are dolts, because they think they're being proud eco-warriors by driving a car that is environmentally-friendly, when in fact it is nothing of the sort.

So, let me get this straight. I'm a dolt because I'm trying to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and help reduce emissions, but supposedly my car doesn't actually do that and I had no way of knowing. Well, let's examine your wonderful source of information:

The report that alleges that the Hummer is more environmentally friendly than the Prius was done by an outfit called CNW Marketing, which is may or may not be funded by (guess who?) GM, maker of the Hummer. Either way, it's a MARKETING firm. The report makes many stupid assumptions, such as that Hummers will last almost four times as long as Priuses (Prii?) and that the batteries cannot be recycled (they can). It also blames the environmental damage around Sudbury on Prius battery production. The environmental damage around Sudbury was caused decades ago and has largely been reversed in the last 15 years. And if you'd take a few moments to look at the report before taking it as the gospel truth, you'd see that it is very unscientific. I think anyone should have reservations about a "scientific" study that includes editorial cartoons, song lyrics, spam and techniques for memorization. It's also interesting that they refuse to release any raw data that they base the study on.

So, to recap: you accuse me of being a dolt because of some stupid, half-baked non-scientific study that you didn't even bother to look at? Maybe I'm not a dolt after all. But, YOU CERTAINLY are a PRICK. Perhaps trying to undermine environmentalism with bogus claims somehow makes you feel better about your own negative impact. I really don't know. But I DO know that someone who blindly accepts and repeats information that supports his own agenda is a brainless tool.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

But, YOU CERTAINLY are a PRICK

stevo is not a prick because he sharply disagrees with you so calm the frick down. 

Further this isnt the ONLY report i personally have read who makes these claims about the nickel in the batteries. 

stevo i was looking over that 400 page document and failed to see where it got its raw data.  It certainly doesnt show how it got to those conclusions it presents

[BathTub]

pretty sure that was shown to be quite flawed ages ago.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

i would really like to know one way or the other.  i plan on buying one anyways cause they look so comfortable and the gas milage is great for long distance trips which i do. 

ps EEGah, how do you like your prius?  is it comfortable?

[BathTub]

"The Prius's mediocre cost-per-mile is due mainly to CNW Research assigning the car a short expected lifetime: 109,000 miles. Nobody knows where this number comes from because CNW has not published details about its derivation. If a car will not last very long, then of course its energy cost per mile is high."

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/20/1858204

[eegah]

But, YOU CERTAINLY are a PRICK

stevo is not a prick because he sharply disagrees with you so calm the frick down. 

Who started the name-calling again?

Disagreeing I can handle. But when someone calls me an idiot (or "dolt"; whatever), it goes beyond simple disagreement. It's a personal attack.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

Disagreeing I can handle. But when someone calls me an idiot (or "dolt"; whatever), it goes beyond simple disagreement

no not really.  he STRONGLY disagrees with your position you cant expect him to think of you as hyper intelligent. 

anywho i dont care about this silly stuff

how do you like your car?  is it comfortable?  good on long trips?  I put no less than 20000 miles on a car a year.  I also do a lot of cross country driving just for the hell of it.  would it be a good car for that?